noetic15:

The above is not my idea of re-incarnation. . . . . there is no basis or proof that supports the above, thats just a ridiculous dogmatic belief.

My idea of re-incarnation is of cases where people die and come back in the form of another person. They however retain ALL knowledge of their previous life, including language, family, origin and events in that life.

And do you believe in this type of re incarnation?. . .You said that their have been reported cases of known reincarnation. . .

mazaje:

Let me state my own purpose in life since I am an atheist. . . Atheism is simply a disbelieve in all the gods of man made religion

Mazaje, please stop mis-defining atheism.

When you say that as an atheist you deny gods of man made religions, you are insinuating that if there was a god that you found not to be of man made religions, then you may believe in such a god. That is not atheism, because atheism denies the existence of God or gods, whether man made or not, period.

mazaje:

And[b] do you believe in this type of re incarnation?[/b]. . .You said that their have been reported cases of known reincarnation. . .

I said earlier in my previous post that "BELIEF" is a STRONG word. . , I dont believe in ANY kind of re-incarnation, but I do acknowledge the claims and dogma behind this kind of re-incarnation.

Deep Sight:

Mazaje, please stop mis-defining atheism.

When you say that as an atheist you deny gods of man made religions, you are insinuating that if there was a god that you found not to be of man made religions, then you may believe in such a god. That is not atheism, because atheism denies the existence of God or gods, whether man made or not, period.

I am not mis defining atheism at all. . .All the gods I know of are gods of man made religions. . If you have any evidence to show that their is a god/gods apart from that of man made religions pls let me know. . .

When I say evidence I mean evidence that points to a god outside that of man made religions. . . pointing to the universe as an evidence for a god will not do because the universe is just the evidence for the universe. . .If you claim that there are 1000000 flying trees out there in the clouds that are moving in a circular motions it is then up to you to provide evidence for them, pointing to the clouds as your evidence will not do. . . .

Noetic100, please come over here and defend your God, he is being taken to pieces by Abuzola with quotes from the Bible.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-330432.0.html

noetic15:

@ wirinet

1. I STRONGLY disagree with your notion that destinity is what a person makes of it,  . . .for obvious reasons

a. Have u ever put into consideration the billions of people who have no say in their destiny. . . including u? . . .did u have a say in where u were born? how and when u were born? did u have a say in the choice of your parents, nationality, race or heritage?
b. how about the millions of war victims, who are traumatised by the policies of a group of men? WWI, WWII and other wars? how about the victims of ridiculous economic policies in zimbabwe, nigeria and other parts of the world? do these people have a say in their destinies?

My point is that, by choice none of these victims would love to be born in Africa or impoverished nations, no one would choose to live in dehumanising and inhuman societies with devilish policies. Destiny is far bigger than u think of.

I do concede that a man's actions or inactions have a say in what he makes of his life, but the most potent decisions in a man's life were not taken by him.
No man  chose a. where he was born
b. who his parents would be
c. how he would be born
d. when he would be born
e. the family, race, country of birth.
If a man has no say over these things, it is pertinent to state that whoever decides these things still has a bigger say in the life of man.

Yes i do know that destiny is far more complex and bigger than i stated. This is a post on what life means to an atheist and not about destiny, that was why i just mention my simplistic view of destiny. But in recognition of the complex nature of destiny was why i made the following statement

I believe your destiny is what ever you want it to be within educational, social, physical, medical, gender, etc. limits.

But if i am to elaborate a little further i would say the effect of destiny on individuals is similar to the effect of gravity on objects in space. The gravity of all celestial bodies influence each other and the closer their proximity the greater influence they exert on each other (sometimes you must factor in their relative sizes too). For example the earth is mainly influenced by the gravity of the sun and hence the destiny of the earth is to go around the sun through out its life (it was born by the sun anyway). but the moon also in very close proximity to the earth exerts a significant influence on the earth's destiny. Also other bodies that exert some influence on the earth are, in order of importance ; Venus, Mars, Jupiter and the rest of the planets. Others of minute influences still, are; the other solar systems in our galaxy, other galaxies and galaxy clusters.

In comparism with an individual, our parents naturally would exert the greatest influence on our destinies ( since also they gave birth to us), then comes other close family members like brothers, sisters, uncles aunt and cousins. Then comes more distant people like friends, classmates, acquaintances and colleagues. The only difference of humans to celestial bodies is that we can decide at some point to change the course of our destinies and redirect it.

So a person born in a war torn society or a poverty stricken community has a natural course of destiny attached to his movement through his life, but most often we find such person employing enough force (determination) and with the help of other bodies (people) changing the course of his pre-destined destiny and becoming a very huge success. Carry out a survey of the most successful people in the world today (including Nigeria), you will find out that they fall within this class. only few people with a well laid out and rosy destiny rarely make it.

I hope you have an idea of my definition of destiny. So I still say at the end of the day we ( our will) exert the greatest influence on our individual (and even collective) destinies.

noetic15:

2. I also disagree with your postulation that God has to be seen before He can be remembered.

your notion of God as a distant non-existent person is not the same for many others. Some have a close inter-personal relationship with Him. so when u call for a visual experience like Thomas did in the bible. . .others are merely content with prophecy, visions, revelations, inspirations, miracles or manifestations of the spirit to serve as their basis of belief in God.
This fact of their might be unacceptable to u. . .but does not proof them wrong.

before you remember something, such a thing would have been perceived before.

I do not have any notion of God as a distant non-existent person, i do not have the notion of God being a person at all - male or female. I have no notion of God.

My favourite character in the new testament was Thomas, he has a scientific mind. How can you tell me someone rose from the dead and expect me to believe it without any evidence. He got the evidence he needed and believed. I am waiting for my own evidence.

about the others that believed a story or stories based on hearsay (the miracles were all hearsay as no original eyewitness recorded the events) , visions, revelations, inspirations. Vision, revelations, inspirations and dreams are often a reflection of our beliefs, aspirations, expectations, fears, etc. that is why a Muslim would have visions of Jinns, a catholic would have visions of Mary and the Ifa priest would have visions from Sango. About prophesies, i seem to concur with Thomas paigne who said Prophet and prophesies are words that have changed meaning. In ancient times the real meaning of a prophet was Poet and his Poetry was termed Prophesy, and you had a poet attached to kings and priests as they are the only ones rich enough to afford them. Anyway that is an argument for another day.

noetic15:

3. Its ironical that u mention ignorance. We need to largely define what ignorance means. Cos to u, I am ignorant simply because I fail to see things from your world view. I disagree.
your world view is a very biased and dogmatic one. There has been no concrete reason to support your dogmatic beliefs about the non-existence of God, so it is impossible to see things from an atheistic point of view. . .as such a non-atheist CANNOT be considered ignorant in this context.

I know i sound dogmatic in my labeling of theists ignorant. That is because most theist i come in contact with has no basis of their own for their beliefs, especially Muslims and Christians. If you asked them why you believe in Christ or God? what is God? even when did God create the world or even what is the meaning of the word Bible and when was it compiled and by whom. You will be surprised most  Christians are ignorant of even Christianity. A favourite question i love asking Christians is What is the meaning of Amen and Halleluyah, which they shout everyday of their lives. Only very few are able to provide answers.

I respect highly theists like Pastor AIO, he knows the basis of his Christianity.

Deep Sight:

Noetic100, please come over here and defend your God, he is being taken to pieces by Abuzola with quotes from the Bible.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-330432.0.html

debating with abuzola is like pouring water into a basket. . .nonetheless all his concerns have been answered here
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-322800.32.html

Deep Sight:

Noetic100, please come over here and defend your God, he is being taken to pieces by Abuzola with quotes from the Bible.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-330432.0.html

Noetic100 ? hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahhaha, Honestly an Atheist is far better than a hypocrites.

I think the purpose of life is relative or based on your perspective. For theists, they like to think they have a purpose here which is a noble idea except that majority of them feel their purpose is to fulfill scriptures or prophesies sha. God wants mankind to multiply and fill the face of the earth, biologically that should be through sexual intercourse which david in psalm 51 hypocritically apologised(on his parents behalf) about being conceived through. Yet sex is a good thing ordained for married people, c'mon, why the mind games?
I know this is not a sex or romance thread but sex is just one of the numerous topics that religion messes with and people are expected to shape their lives via such unreliable notions. Purpose is all about what u want, what you love, what you can become etc. so according to atheism, purpose is not all about having to conform to some stereotype celestial masterplans but to take charge of your life and be responsible for whatever happens to you.
As humans, we all have a responsibility to help each other, educate each other and so on.
Atheism is a pro-life concept if u ask me and not a pro-death-thus heaven one.

ilosiwaju:

so according to atheism, purpose is not all about having to conform to some stereotype celestial masterplans but to take charge of your life and be responsible for whatever happens to you.


Atheism is a pro-life concept if u ask me and not a pro-death-thus heaven one.

Ilosiwaju -

Although i am impressed by the quality of your post, and although i tend to agree with most of what you have written, i must state that in the excerpts highlighted above, you have mis-stated Atheism, or at the very least, you have extended its borders intolerably.

Atheism is a positive denial in the existence of God or gods (all or any deities). It is without doubt a gross exaggeration to characterize Atheism therefore as "a pro-life concept. . ." The Atheistic idea does not venture into the question of life or what anybody does with his or her life. Atheism is not concerned with that. It is simply a point of view that states: ("God(s) do not exist." Period. Whatever any person wants to do with his life is not, and has never been the concern of the atheist.

Atheism advances no dogmatic or doctrinal positions. For this reason, it is a entire contradiction in terms to state, as you have done, "According to Atheism. . ." save with respect to the strict matter of denying Deism or Theism.

Might i add a footnote. God, properly understood, is life itself, the living power of the Universe, the source of that power. Denying his/ her/ its existence therefore, can never in any event be "pro-life."

I state this because most atheists i have come across on this forum are tragically unable to distinguish the cosmological question of the existence of God from the fallacies of human religious dogma. They tend to argue along the line that since human religion is obviously flawed, then. . . God does not exist! I hope you are able to see the inherent intellectual laziness reflected by such a statement. Because "God" refers to an uncaused cause, and prime mover of all existence, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the veracity or stupidity of human religious dogma.