MtuMsuper:

promotion of ethnic sub units will not stop tribalism in africa. Its the practice of making your ethnicity count as a factor of production or giving you undue advantage that counts. In other words , meritocracy. Malaysia removed barriers to joining trades or professions to ethnic malays by deliberate programs to uplift them and be at par with the chinese and ethnic indian Malaysians. Once you remove disadvantage or perceived disadvantage and make everybody equally valued and have equal chances, access and opportunities, tribalism will be dealt a huge blow. See how european tribes entrench this philosophy. As for Tanzania, they just decided to swahilinize the country after independence by suppressing ethnic expression and languages, and then calling it national unity.Many will disagree with me on this last point.

It's true.
A very high level of education, wealth and equality will deal a big blow to tribalism in African countries.

I see the swahilinization of TZ as a good thing. The Europeans, Chinese and others did it to unite their own countries too. You sound as if it is a bad thing.

mtis:

Thats true but in most threads in Nairaland many guys from SE want their way out.Is it maybe the rest of the country is holding them back

not south east but the east generally, they wanted to break out of Nigeria and call themselves Biafra which led to a civil war in d 50s.

but they are still agitating d break up ,even up till now .

Nowenuse:


Yes, true. I think Senegalese and Ivorians seem to be better in terms of education and civilization because they were closer to Dakar which was the capital of colonial French West Africa, unlike the Malians, Burkinabes, Togolese, Beninoise and the worst of all Nigèriens who were farther away from Dakar.
The united colonial french west Africa was a very terrible colonial system.

But why is Ivory coast so progressive compared to other Francophone west Africans? more than even the Senegalse who are more educated and westernized?
Just look at Abidjan and how beautiful, developed and civilized it looks.
I think Senegal is supposed to be leading Francophone west Africa and not Ivory coast

dakar is beaitiful like ivory coast. they have lot of well respected scholarsl than ivory coast.senegal has a little natural resources compare to ivory coast. ivory coast is the largest producer of cocoa in the world. they even have oil but the oil issue is still in court against ghana. i will not fully agree with you if you think ivory coast is better than senegal. not any major diffrence.

Nowenuse:


LoL, chill bro. You do not want to take us back to the unfriendly and harsh tone here. Join the train of diplomacy and friendliness here. Let's learn from each other.
Comments like these bring back the insults among us.

that's y I sed no offense

chkil0:


no, algerians and tunisians are very close ! for tunisia its the most close country to algerians the relationship is excellent ! for exemple 1,8 millions algerian tourists went to tunisia in 2016 !

for morocco we have some politics problems because in independancy 1962 morroco sent its army and try to still a part of our land and their was little military fights in borders ! but now days its only politics problems between the two gouvernment about western sahara
for population in internet you will find the competition ( my country is better then yours ) like you nigerians and south africans in this forum

for tunisian yes under bourguiba president (1957- 1987) they try to erase radical islamism ( banned hijab at school in 1957 ) the sam with benali after him , but after tnisian revolution they are more free to wre or not hijab , same like algeria morocco

Ok, i now understand better.

I also want to know, which language do maghrebis of different nationalities prefer to speak when they come across each other? French or Arabic?

How do Maghrebis view Libyans and Egyptians? What is the relationship like?

How do you guys also view sub saharan Africans? Do you think North africans and sub saharan Africans can ever have a united sense of oneness or Africaness?

Nowenuse:


Ok. Yes yorubas practice a very liberal form of islam, so they easily convert or leave the religion. The same thing in Nigeria and this is why unfortunately, many Hausas see yoruba muslims as fake or inferior muslims.

it is very unfortuante for the hausa to see yoruba muslim as fake. a progressive society should be able to accept diffrences. duabi is 100.percent muslim yet they welcome non muslm. and that is why is moving forward economically than saudi arabia.

Nowenuse:


It's true.
A very high level of education, wealth and equality will deal a big blow to tribalism in African countries.

I see the swahilinization of TZ as a good thing. The Europeans, Chinese and others did it to unite their own countries too. You sound as if it is a bad thing.

Not entirely. Education levels in that country are too low. Superstitious behaviours rife. Ignorance and disease like theyre from Mars or Pluto.
What good does stability have when youre not prosperous?

uzzyfire:
not south east but the east generally, they wanted to break out of Nigeria and call themselves Biafra which led to a civil war in d 50s.

but they are still agitating d break up ,even up till now .

The war was in the late 60s.

@mtis
The socio-political system is very complex than it may seems. it's not a black an white issue. Even the Biafrans can't unite the former groups in the old eastern region under the modern separatist movement as many hold on to a newer political South-south identity. You have so many factors like ethnic identity and oil politics that play into the factor. But as for now, Nigeria is united at least on paper.

I've heard about the Western cape separatist movement in South Africa. I think it's probably the most ridiculous separatist movement out there.

uzzyfire:
no offense to ghanains oo but they tend to imitate everything Nigeria does even d bad things . I really don't know y they do that

ot is not about immitating. they accept nigeria as their brother due to the same colonia background.remember it is youth we are talking about here. thank GOD to nigeria entertainment industry which influence ghanian society alot. remember when there was a high penetration of american music into nigeria market. nigerians too were carried away by american styles. idris abdul kareem is an example.

vaxx:
dakar is beaitiful like ivory coast. they have lot of well respected scholarsl than ivory coast.senegal has a little natural resources compare to ivory coast. ivory coast is the largest producer of cocoa in the world. they even have oil but the oil issue is still in court against ghana. i will not fully agree with you if you think ivory coast is better than senegal. not any major diffrence.

You are correct. Senegalese are more educated than Ivorians, i can never dispute that.
I never said Dakar is not beautiful, but it is not really as developed as Abidjan from what i have observed. Senegal seems to have a better human development while Ivory coast a better economic development i guess.

At the end of the day however, we are still almost at the same level.

West Africa appears too fragmented. What do you think about the unification of West Africa as one country?

uzzyfire:
that's becos its not their thing

That's because most Ghanaians don't speak pidgin. The only time people learn pidgin is through university.

Nowenuse:


Ok, i now understand better.

I also want to know, which language do maghrebis of different nationalities prefer to speak when they come across each other? French or Arabic?

How do Maghrebis view Libyans and Egyptians? What is the relationship like?

How do you guys also view sub saharan Africans? Do you think North africans and sub saharan Africans can ever have a united sense of oneness or Africaness?

- we speak our local language ( not the ancestral amazigh ) but our local language a mix between modified arab , french spanish with local modification ! we can understand moroccan tunisian algerian easily ! look the same with minor modification . other arabs dont understand our language

- for lybians egyptians they are little different culture and not close for us , they are a little more arabs ! so tteir is no strong links .

- for africa united dont think this model have population support specialy with the failure of the european Union model ! and failure of the maghreb regional union , honnestly for basic poeple in maghreb they dont have a lot of interest in sub saharian africa ! my friends are surprised by my interest in sub saharian african forums and poeple ! but for gouvernment (morocco ,algeria specially) they have a lot of economics, devlopment, politic project with the rest of the continent since 1960s . of cours we have many subsaharians students and migrants here also !

vaxx:
it is very unfortuante for the hausa to see yoruba muslim as fake. a progressive society should be able to accept diffrences. duabi is 100.percent muslim yet they welcome non muslm. and that is why is moving forward economically than saudi arabia.

Actually it depends on the person. I have seen many Hausa Muslims befriend Yoruba Muslims as well as Christians alike. Some Hausa may share those views, however I think it would be wrong to generalize them like that. In many parts if the SW, it's not uncommon to see Hausa and Yoruba in the same mosque, but it depends. I've heard that there are Yoruba imams in Abuja mosques who lead a congregation of mostly Hausa muslims. I like what you said about progressive society irregardless of religion. In Algeria and Libya, literacy including female literacy is very high. I even heard that there are more female lawyers than male lawyers in Algeria. I wish Northern part of Nigeria can adopt that form of approach to education and secularization and that starts by removing shariah law.

MtuMsuper:

Not entirely. Education levels in that country are too low. Superstitious behaviours rife. Ignorance and disease like theyre from Mars or Pluto.
What good does stability have when youre not prosperous?

True. But at least they are making some progress and are not regressing.
I think TZ took the swahilinization thing too far. It somehow secluded them and made them quite local in mentality.

But the way Tanzanians portray themselves in their musics, movies an tv shows seems very contrasting with what we are saying about them. Why is that so?

(I may be wrong) but they seem to have a higher urbanized and lively social population than other East Africans from what i have observed. They also tend to appear more beautiful, neat, reserved, civilized, friendly, classy, easy-going and cool-headed than Kenyans (am very sorry if i seem too indiscreet), that's just my sincere and personal observation from Tanzanians and Kenyans i see on TV. Why is this so?

mtis:
Am sorry but had to post this..

This statistic was made in 2013.Since then the UNDP which is in a better position to know has revised it's former position on Nigeria's poverty rate. Check out the new statistics.

@MtuMsuper

Kenyans on the other hand tend to be more exposed, educated, enlightened, enterprising, competitive, aspiring, daring and hard-headed than Tanzanians from my own personal observation.

As for Uganda, i think they are just there. They appear more like Kenyans but an older version of Kenyans (pardon my indiscretion, i hope no one takes them personal).

vaxx:
dakar is beaitiful like ivory coast. they have lot of well respected scholarsl than ivory coast.senegal has a little natural resources compare to ivory coast. ivory coast is the largest producer of cocoa in the world. they even have oil but the oil issue is still in court against ghana. i will not fully agree with you if you think ivory coast is better than senegal. not any major diffrence.

It would be very nice to have a senegalese or ivorian in this african discussion. That way, it would be a real african spat. See what french/english divide has done. Even the angolans who never speak anything but portuguese would be welcome.

Nowenuse:
@MtuMsuper

Kenyans on the other hand tend to be more exposed, educated, enlightened, enterprising, competitive, aspiring, daring and hard-headed than Tanzanians from my own personal observation.

As for Uganda, i think they are just there. They appear more like Kenyans but an older version of Kenyans (pardon my indiscretion, i hope no one takes them personal).

Surely you cant make conclusions from watching TV!!! Most of kenyas neighbours lack drive and ambition,true. Resentment from them is real. Education and exposure levels can take a man faaar, and compared to our neighbours, we have that in greater amounts. Also, there is weak institutions in most staes, hence a stymied devt course.

Maduawuchukwu:

This statistic was made in 2013.Since then the UNDP which is in a better position to know has revised it's former position on Nigeria's poverty rate. Check out the new statistics.

Why is it that most nigerian elites tend to shun the topic of (very real) poverty by either falsifying facts or else presenting a denial? Especially when the fact of decades of oil wealth is known.

JiggamanGh:



That's because most Ghanaians don't speak pidgin. The only time people learn pidgin is through university.

No wonder some of my Ghanian friends here were asking me to interptete some pidgin words for them even though they could speak pidgin. I was startled then, but now l know the reason why.

9jakool:

Actually it depends on the person. I have seen many Hausa Muslims befriend Yoruba Muslims as well as Christians alike. Some Hausa may share those views, however I think it would be wrong to generalize them like that. In many parts if the SW, it's not uncommon to see Hausa and Yoruba in the same mosque, but it depends. I've heard that there are Yoruba imams in Abuja mosques who lead a congregation of mostly Hausa muslims. I like what you said about progressive society irregardless of religion. In Algeria and Libya, literacy including female literacy is very high. I even heard that there are more female lawyers than male lawyers in Algeria. I wish Northern part of Nigeria can adopt that form of approach to education and secularization and that starts by removing shariah law.

You are very correct.

All we other Nigerians can do is to give the core-northerners some time to catch up in terms of education.
Seriously, their main problem is illiteracy.
Most educated Core-northerners are not extremists and are fastly willing to adopt secularization. The fewer educated extremists and the illiterate masses are the ones dragging the society backward.

Look at this link below and see that North-east and North-west indigenes recorded the highest growth in average for Jamb registrations in Nigeria for the period of 6 years.

https://www.nairaland.com/3709501/see-jamb-applications-geopolitical-regions

Check north-central and see that we have almost caught up with the south in terms of education, but it was not so in the past.

Many northerners are now leaving their villages and illiterate enclaves and gradually getting exposed.
Remeber that education came 50 years earlier to thr south.

ednited:



politics is just about 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. You can't be loyal having politics around. It is the worst field to express humanity in. Even you have to know both our country's govt have done millions of disgusting stuffs when playing politics. Majority of the smile they show on TV have a bad thought inside

Exact point. So,naturally human beings tends to go to form alliance based on mutual interest. You see, North Korea and its ranting. Yet, the China of this world and Japan of this world are backing the US. The HAMAS of this world with terrorism instincts have begun to change tactics when reality beckon on them. Fighting a war one can not win need tactical approach in forming alliance. It is all about the world we live in,will always make power bloc tilt toward alliances.

MtuMsuper:

Why is it that most nigerian elites tend to shun the topic of (very real) poverty by either falsifying facts or else presenting a denial? Especially when the fact of decades of oil wealth is known.

Have you been to Nigeria before? It is a poor country like most developing countries and corruption is a problem, but l do not believe that 80% abject poverty nonsense, especially when considering that the middle class is large as well.This is not about falsifying facts or denying anything. What is the GDP per capita of Nigeria? l could be wrong but l believe only south africa beats us in that respect( considering Ghana, south afriica and Kenya here).
In Onitsha where l served for example, the average man or what you would regard as the poor who doesn't go to school is hardworking and goes into all kinds of business, and does not live in ABJECT poverty. Let us view things objectively. Besides if you ask me, oil wealth has its problems too in the hands of corrupt managers, it is both a blessing and a curse and more of a curse than blessing to some countries.

MtuMsuper:

Why is it that most nigerian elites tend to shun the topic of (very real) poverty by either falsifying facts or else presenting a denial? Especially when the fact of decades of oil wealth is known.

I am not falsifying anything. The UNDP statistics is a fact and not opinion. Poverty in Nigeria is very glaring and painful due to our potential but the statistics said that it is exaggerated.

chkil0:


- we speak our local language ( not the ancestral amazigh ) but our local language a mix between modified arab , french spanish with local modification ! we can understand moroccan tunisian algerian easily ! look the same with minor modification . other arabs dont understand our language

- for lybians egyptians they are little different culture and not close for us , they are a little more arabs ! so tteir is no strong links .

- for africa united dont think this model have population support specialy with the failure of the european Union model ! and failure of the maghreb regional union , honnestly for basic poeple in maghreb they dont have a lot of interest in sub saharian africa ! my friends are surprised by my interest in sub saharian african forums and poeple ! but for gouvernment (morocco ,algeria specially) they have a lot of economics, devlopment, politic project with the rest of the continent since 1960s . of cours we have many subsaharians students and migrants here also !

Hmm
I expected as much.

Why did Maghrebi regional unity fail? A united Maghreb would have been a powerful force to reckon with in Africa.
You can imagine that Morocco is now requesting to join us in ECOWAS (although we all know that they have ulterior motives).
So, in what context do maghrebis speak french with each other? Do your leaders and politicians speak it to the masses on any occasions?

I'd also like to know from your own personal point of view, do you think that Maghrebis should generally accept more liberalism or more islamism?

MtuMsuper:

Why is it that most nigerian elites tend to shun the topic of (very real) poverty by either falsifying facts or else presenting a denial? Especially when the fact of decades of oil wealth is known.

Some of the poverty stats are reasonable, others are plain out ridiculous. The disparity in statistics is laughable. Some stats say 30%, 40% others say 50%, 60%, even 70% sometimes.

MtuMsuper:

Why is it that most nigerian elites tend to shun the topic of (very real) poverty by either falsifying facts or else presenting a denial? Especially when the fact of decades of oil wealth is known.

The thing is that extreme poverty in Southern Nigeria is quite low and most cannot relate with it due to the huge middle class population over there.
Extreme poverty in Southern Nigeria is as low as 15%, believe me. Especially in large Southern urban areas like the city i am now (Warri city). Extreme poverty here should be as low as 5%. This is why most urban Southern Nigerians cannot relate with it.

Extreme poverty in North-central Nigeria should be around 35%. As north-central people are mostly christians and liberal muslims, increasingly adopting Southern culture and leaving poverty.

The problem with Nigeria is North-east and North-west regions where the average poverty level is around 70%.

Any agency judging with these 2 regions will easily conclude the majority of Nigerians to be poor. This is the issue here.

Nowenuse:


Hmm
I expected as much.

Why did Maghrebi regional unity fail? A united Maghreb would have been a powerful force to reckon with in Africa.
You can imagine that Morocco is now requesting to join us in ECOWAS (although we all know that they have ulterior motives).
So, in what context do maghrebis speak french with each other? Do your leaders and politicians speak it to the masses on any occasions?

I'd also like to know from your own personal point of view, do you think that Maghrebis should generally accept more liberalism or more islamism?

Maghrebi regional unity fail because of western sahara case ! + hypocrisy , this subject of dispute is used by the two leaders to divert the public opinion in case of internal problems . + during algerian terrorism black periods (1991-2001) no on help and morocco helped terrorist . + smuggling, algerian gasoline, medicines, food are passed on to Morocco and on their side they return only cannabis (Morocco 1st producer of cannabis in the world), so the Algerians do not see the interest to open economic relations with morocco . in the others side economic relation is very open between algeria tunisia .

for morocco to join ecowas its not to algeria the message was to the europeen union ! morocco has made many official requests to join europe but was refused and had a previligie statue of economic exchanges, just before the declaration of Morocco on the ECOWAS the European commission blocked some moroccan exports product produced from the occupied Western sahara territory thats why they make this Poker Bluff about ECOWAS

for politicians they speak in official language ( traditional arab) , The current Prime Minister is one of the first to make speeches in Algerian local language . french is more for intellectuals events because we study in French science at the university level )


for liberalism islamism , you have to come visit maghrebins cities to see the paradox , we live like europeens with some hypocrisy regard the religion , official statistic said 99% are muslims but in many maghrebins cities you will not see the difference from some europeens . for my self view (i m atheist) maghreb have a moderate islam and are more liberal then many countries around the world !

MtuMsuper:

Why is it that most nigerian elites tend to shun the topic of (very real) poverty by either falsifying facts or else presenting a denial? Especially when the fact of decades of oil wealth is known.

Some of the poverty stats are reasonable, others are plain out ridiculous. The disparity in statistics is laughable. Some stats say 30%, 40% others say 50%, 60%, even 70% sometimes. One such inadequate statistics a few years ago even stated that 70% of Lagos live in extreme poverty. The truth is that many Nigerians don't live in areas with high poverty, so they aren't familiar with the exact situation at hand hence the disassociation from the high poverty figures. There is a disparity in Nigeria's poverty rate from region to region.
The fact is that Nigeria's poverty rate is around 45%, at least according to the United nation's data. Now look at this, Lagos state in SW has the lowest poverty rate in Nigeria at 8.5%, while Zamfara in the NW region has the highest at an alarming poverty rate of 91.9%.
Here is the breakdown of poverty rates by region
1.) South-West -19.3%
2.) South-South-25.2%
3.) South-East-27.4%
4.) North-Central- Around National Average
5.) North-east- 76.8%
6.) North-west- 81.1%

The percentage of "poor" Nigerians in 1980 was 28.1%. Take note the percentage of Nigerians living in poverty at the time was far lower than that because the "poor" bracket included those living in poverty as well as those who were simply poor.
The oil wealth is more or less like a blessing with a curse. In the 1960s, the economy of Nigeria was solidified in agriculture. The North produced nuts, the West was known for cocoa, and the East was known for oil palm. Nigeria currency was stronger than the dollar and industrialization (textile, paper, car assembly, etc) was growing at a fast rate. The tourism industry in Nigeria was growing. Tourists would flock to Nigeria's national parks and Nigeria was going to be a formidable force. However the discovery and exploitation of oil reversed the trend. Nigeria's economy(foreign export) became heavily reliant on oil. Greedy politicians and dictators took to the stage and for decades Nigeria was under various corrupt military rules who plundered the wealth of the country at the people's expense. Oppositions and activists were jailed or executed. After the return to civilian rule, the damage done was too much. Manufacturing centers like Kaduna, Kano, Ilorin were filled with abandoned factories. Nigeria has also fell behind greatly in agriculture. The tourist sites became abandoned and many of the wild animals like the West African rhino and giraffes were all hunted to extinction in Nigeria. The once largest producer of oil palm in the world is now overtaken by Malaysia and Indonesia. The once largest producer of cocoa in the world is now overtaken by Ivory Coast and Ghana. I believe that Nigeria can return to its former era by loosening the dependency on oil and investing in what it does best. There are plans to diversify the economy and remove corruptions. So much money have been uncovered.
Anyways sorry for going into the long speal, but I had to give context.

Nowenuse:


You are very correct.

All we other Nigerians can do is to give the core-northerners some time to catch up in terms of education.
Seriously, their main problem is illiteracy.
Most educated Core-northerners are not extremists and are fastly willing to adopt secularization. The fewer educated extremists and the illiterate masses are the ones dragging the society backward.

Look at this link below and see that North-east and North-west indigenes recorded the highest growth in average for Jamb registrations in Nigeria for the period of 6 years.

https://www.nairaland.com/3709501/see-jamb-applications-geopolitical-regions

Check north-central and see that we have almost caught up with the south in terms of education, but it was not so in the past.

Many northerners are now leaving their villages and illiterate enclaves and gradually getting exposed.
Remeber that education came 50 years earlier to thr south.

So true.
I don't even consider NC as part of the North. Geographically it's in the central part of the country. I don't blame Northerners for the lack of human development, I blame their leaders. Even though corruption is everywhere in Nigeria, the conditions NW and NE stands out the most. It was that senator from Zamfara, the one that married that underage girl that introduced Shariah to the North with Zamfara becoming the first state to adopt such laws. Ironically Zamfara is the poorest state in Nigeria. A lot of their leaders don't set an example for their people. Every region receives allocation. I believe things may change with more education, but first that shariah law has to be removed.

JiggamanGh:



That's because most Ghanaians don't speak pidgin. The only time people learn pidgin is through university.

wait, is pidgin taught in Ghana universities

9jakool:

Some of the poverty stats are reasonable, others are plain out ridiculous. The disparity in statistics is laughable. Some stats say 30%, 40% others say 50%, 60%, even 70% sometimes. One such inadequate statistics a few years ago even stated that 70% of Lagos live in extreme poverty. The truth is that many Nigerians don't live in areas with high poverty, so they aren't familiar with the exact situation at hand hence the disassociation from the high poverty figures. There is a disparity in Nigeria's poverty rate from region to region.
The fact is that Nigeria's poverty rate is around 45%, at least according to the United nation's data. Now look at this, Lagos state in SW has the lowest poverty rate in Nigeria at 8.5%, while Zamfara in the NW region has the highest at an alarming poverty rate of 91.9%.
Here is the breakdown of poverty rates by region
1.) South-West -19.3%
2.) South-South-25.2%
3.) South-East-27.4%
4.) North-Central- Around National Average
5.) North-east- 76.8%
6.) North-west- 81.1%

The percentage of "poor" Nigerians in 1980 was 28.1%. Take note the percentage of Nigerians living in poverty at the time was far lower than that because the "poor" bracket included those living in poverty as well as those who were simply poor.
The oil wealth is more or less like a blessing with a curse. In the 1960s, the economy of Nigeria was solidified in agriculture. The North produced nuts, the West was known for cocoa, and the East was known for oil palm. Nigeria currency was stronger than the dollar and industrialization (textile, paper, car assembly, etc) was growing at a fast rate. The tourism industry in Nigeria was growing. Tourists would flock to Nigeria's national parks and Nigeria was going to be a formidable force. However the discovery and exploitation of oil reversed the trend. Nigeria's economy(foreign export) became heavily reliant on oil. Greedy politicians and dictators took to the stage and for decades Nigeria was under various corrupt military rules who plundered the wealth of the country at the people's expense. Oppositions and activists were jailed or executed. After the return to civilian rule, the damage done was too much. Manufacturing centers like Kaduna, Kano, Ilorin were filled with abandoned factories. Nigeria has also fell behind greatly in agriculture. The tourist sites became abandoned and many of the wild animals like the West African rhino and giraffes were all hunted to extinction in Nigeria. The once largest producer of oil palm in the world is now overtaken by Malaysia and Indonesia. The once largest producer of cocoa in the world is now overtaken by Ivory Coast and Ghana. I believe that Nigeria can return to its former era by loosening the dependency on oil and investing in what it does best. There are plans to diversify the economy and remove corruptions. So much money have been uncovered.
Anyways sorry for going into the long speal, but I had to give context.

Would have loved to know where those stats are from, though. But seriously, there is a serial lack of opportunity amongst the 18-35 age group. How else would you explain this national obsession to simply get out.and go anywhere but home? Those crossing the Sahara and Mediterranean are the more extreme examples, but even so, their numbers just seem never to run dry!
The Abachas and other dictators i admit set nigeria back decades. I had a nigerian professor at university who was a good personal friend of mine who told me of the desperate conditions most academics in Nigeria were in then and the sheer madness of Abacha was a wonder to behold in both extent and depravity. Obasanjo really tried his best, but from my vantage point, it seems the problem lies in a lack of coordinated approach to getting things right. Nigerians were too hard on GEJ and from my observations, he was just a victim of regional machinations. YarAdua was lukewarm and staid, i cant really put a finger on any of his major achievements, unless you tell me. I personally would rather live in a place that gets 75% of things right than where almost nothing works.