It doesn't matter whether an atheist is Agnostic or Gnostic, the most common reaction to manifestations occurring especially during deliverances from Christians circles is to:

Waive off: as ACTING/ DRAMA!
Or
Discard as: SILLY!

Some Agnostics just conclude that the "Human Brain is Complex" so anything could happen. I have even met Agnostics who believe in gods (like Ogun, Osun and even Lucifer). Its difficult generalizing about Agnostic Atheist views about this.

However, I will like Atheists (Agnostics or Gnostics) to give possible logical or scientific explanations to Manifestations which occur in deliverance of the Demonized.

I have participated in deliverance ministrations and I can attest to the fact that what you see is neither planned acting nor silly outburst from weak minds.

I am attaching two short videos as a refresher:

The first is a deliverance through Skype:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLp7F1wBwfDzg3kzxV4Bkb3WtzIVaHoh8R&params=OAFIAVgI&v=rP35LvukPYI&mode=NORMAL

The Second is a deliverance during a crusade:

https://m.youtube.com/results?q=deliverance%20demon&sm=3

Pls only serious comments we can all learn

Sorry I didn't watch the videos. But I have been to a church program before where the pastor was doing annointing and deliverance, he placed his hands on people and they fell and started rolling on the floor (some almost fell but caught by the ushers). When it got to my turn the pastor place his hands on me and nothing happen, he decided to hit me and still nothing happen, so he told me to go out.

CONCLUSION: Those that fell down might be because they were very emotional at that time, I could see little tears on their face. Or they just love Jesus so much.

But me I rarely smile!

CeoMYN:
Sorry I didn't watch the videos. But I have been to a church program before where the pastor was doing annointing and deliverance, he placed his hands on people and they fell and started rolling on the floor (some almost fell but caught by the ushers). When it got to my turn the pastor place his hands on me and nothing happen, he decided to hit me and still nothing happen, so he told me to go out.

CONCLUSION: Those that fell down might be because they were very emotional at that time, I could see little tears on their face. Or they just love Jesus so much.

But me I rarely smile!

I understand you very well but I don't think that your conclusion represents the actual experience of people based on the following:
1. Not all ministers who lay hand on people especially among the Pentecostals does deliverance irrespective of whether people fall or not.
2. Not everyone manifests during deliverance. Some deliverance occur without the tantrums you see on TV. Whether there will be manifestations or not is subject to the personality of the embedded demons, the magnitude of torment it experiences and the giftings of the deliverance minister.
3. Manifestations is not about being weak willed: a macho man-like student of mine manifested badly when arraigned for deliverance. He couldn't believe his eyes when I showed him the video recording from my cell phone. I believe you heard of Jim Iykes deliverance in SCOAN..its on YouTube you can search for it.

If you watch quite a few deliverances, I am sure your conclusion about them being emotional kind of people will change.

I can entertain questions

Please. A really long time in primary school I knew a pastor that came to my school, he prayed and always forced all the students he could into his seminars, certain times when he prayed some of the students would shout and jubilate, others would roll on the floor in a sort of convulsive fashion, evidence of your deliverance as you say. But the students weren't overcomed by a higher power, they simply did what was expected, without anyone informing them, they somehow actually felt like doing all these things. I know this because the pastor was a fake man of God, a fvcking hypocrite. Now you'll ask me how I know this, and my answer would be that the man was a child molester and rapist(several students attested to this). He got discovered and stopped coming to the school. So if this guy was fake why did the students fall and roll during deliverance. The mind is a great thing, and is sufficient in fooling itself.

Interesting thread...

I did try to watch the videos, but i am in holdup right now and i cant hear well enough, but i would give a few personal opinions on the matter.

My atheism is based on one single premise, and its not science or hypocrisy of religion, or hate of God, or a tragedy. No, none of that, it is based on one simple fact:-

- There has been no single evidence for all supernatural claims.

Infact in anicent times, the supernatural was a term used by we humans to describe phenomenon that we ddnt understand, but has we grew wiser and more scientific, the realm of supernatural things grew smaller and smaller.

Today, we still hear of ghosts, and demon possession but no single concrete evidence as sufficed for even one.

I do not doubt the intentions of some of those in deliverance, many are dubious but some are really sincere and truly believe that they have been possessed by the devil or by demons, and when the brain believes something that strongly, it becomes hard to not see otherwise. I do remember telling you about my mom being a deliverance minister shadeyinka, and she believes it so firmly, she really believes in demons and spirits and believes she has casted those things out of alot folks. So I understand perfectly.

But believing something because its convenient or because it has been constantly repeated to you is a very wrong reason to believe and so i require evidence for any belief to take place.

So as i man who doesn't believe in the supernatural, i first look for Naturalistic explanation to events i feel are absurd and out of the ordinary and even if i cant find one, it still doesn't mean its supernatural, it just means there is a Natural cause in which we are not familiar with.

i dont understand in those video did any amputee limbs grow back? Whats the fuss about?

shadeyinka:




I understand you very well but I don't think that your conclusion represents the actual experience of people based on the following:
1. Not all ministers who lay hand on people especially among the Pentecostals does deliverance irrespective of whether people fall or not.
2. Not everyone manifests during deliverance. Some deliverance occur without the tantrums you see on TV. Whether there will be manifestations or not is subject to the personality of the embedded demons, the magnitude of torment it experiences and the giftings of the deliverance minister.
3. Manifestations is not about being weak willed: a macho man-like student of mine manifested badly when arraigned for deliverance. He couldn't believe his eyes when I showed him the video recording from my cell phone. I believe you heard of Jim Iykes deliverance in SCOAN..its on YouTube you can search for it.

If you watch quite a few deliverances, I am sure your conclusion about them being emotional kind of people will change.

I can entertain questions

I already got your points sir.
You are a christian right?
Do Jehovah bring disable people into this world intentionally? And what plans does Jehovah have for amputees and other disabled humans?
I ask because I can't understand why Jehovah who the Bible says is the almighty God will make someone deformed from birth.

Lennycool:
Please. A really long time in primary school I knew a pastor that came to my school, he prayed and always forced all the students he could into his seminars, certain times when he prayed some of the students would shout and jubilate, others would roll on the floor in a sort of convulsive fashion, evidence of your deliverance as you say. But the students weren't overcomed by a higher power, they simply did what was expected, without anyone informing them, they somehow actually felt like doing all these things. I know this because the pastor was a fake man of God, a fvcking hypocrite. Now you'll ask me how I know this, and my answer would be that the man was a child molester and rapist(several students attested to this). He got discovered and stopped coming to the school. So if this guy was fake why did the students fall and roll during deliverance. The mind is a great thing, and is sufficient in fooling itself.

I quite understand your view on this. Unfortunately, a totally backslidden morally bankrupt man of God can still do deliverance.

It looks like God overlooks the faults of these men for the sake of those who need help. Also, the Faith of the people in question matters.

When it comes to healing and deliverance, faith is additive. The Faith of the Man of God + the Faith of the Subject in question..many times, it is not even the Faith of the man of God working but the Faith of the subject. Ignorantly, people ascribe all miracles as done through the faith of the man of God.

Samson in the scriptures was just like that: Anointed but commiting Sins. They will receive their judgement.

However, on the other hand, some Suit wearing men of Satan disguised as men of God can invoke manifestations in people. Its just a matter of transferring or activating the kundilin I spirit. Manifestation through laying on of hand is NOT a proof that Gods Spirit is at Work. It could be satan doing the act of mesmerizing people.

I was hoping that you'll comment on this post and I wasn't disappointed!

donnffd:

Interesting thread...

I did try to watch the videos, but i am in holdup right now and i cant hear well enough, but i would give a few personal opinions on the matter.

My atheism is based on one single premise, and its not science or hypocrisy of religion, or hate of God, or a tragedy. No, none of that, it is based on one simple fact:-

- There has been no single evidence for all supernatural claims.

Infact in anicent times, the supernatural was a term used by we humans to describe phenomenon that we ddnt understand, but has we grew wiser and more scientific, the realm of supernatural things grew smaller and smaller.

Today, we still hear of ghosts, and demon possession but no single concrete evidence as sufficed for even one.

I understand you. However you can never find the kind of answer for the spiritual based on the physical. It'd like LOVE, it is REAL but can't be measured.

If your wife (before marrying you) says "donnffd, I will marry you only on the condition that I can quantitatively describe your love for me!"

Would that not be a losing quest? She trusted that you loved her and her trust was subjective. You could duplicate everything you do for your wife for me and I don't see it as a proof/evidence of love...you could have some ulterior motive!

God is a Spirit! God is Love! There is NO direct physical evidence.

donnffd:

I do not doubt the intentions of some of those in deliverance, many are dubious but some are really sincere and truly believe that they have been possessed by the devil or by demons, and when the brain believes something that strongly, it becomes hard to not see otherwise. I do remember telling you about my mom being a deliverance minister shadeyinka, and she believes it so firmly, she really believes in demons and spirits and believes she has casted those things out of alot folks. So I understand perfectly.

But believing something because its convenient or because it has been constantly repeated to you is a very wrong reason to believe and so i require evidence for any belief to take place.

I agree some deliverance ministers are just strictly business men who take advantage of people. But, I don't think it is because these people through hearing repeated doctrines about demons predispose them to such reactions. I told you that one of my sisters was diagnosed with schizophrenia, she had never gone to churches where they do deliverance but when I prayed for her, her reaction was typical of those tantrums you see on the TV. As her relation, she never saw me do deliverance. I didn't even tell her I was going to do deliverance for her...it was in my office. No! I don't think that it is a kind of subliminal programming.

donnffd:


So as i man who doesn't believe in the supernatural, i first look for Naturalistic explanation to events i feel are absurd and out of the ordinary and even if i cant find one, it still doesn't mean its supernatural, it just means there is a Natural cause in which we are not familiar with.

Not everything has a natural explanation.

shadeyinka:



I quite understand your view on this. Unfortunately, a totally backslidden morally bankrupt man of God can still do deliverance.

It looks like God overlooks the faults of these men for the sake of those who need help. Also, the Faith of the people in question matters.

When it comes to healing and deliverance, faith is additive. The Faith of the Man of God + the Faith of the Subject in question..many times, it is not even the Faith of the man of God working but the Faith of the subject. Ignorantly, people ascribe all miracles as done through the faith of the man of God.

Samson in the scriptures was just like that: Anointed but commiting Sins. They will receive their judgement.

However, on the other hand, some Suit wearing men of Satan disguised as men of God can invoke manifestations in people. Its just a matter of transferring or activating the kundilin I spirit. Manifestation through laying on of hand is NOT a proof that Gods Spirit is at Work. It could be satan doing the act of mesmerizing people.

If God can use sinners to heal. Then WTF?
I'm an atheist so I don't believe in God or the Devil

EyeHateGod:
i dont understand in those video did any amputee limbs grow back? Whats the fuss about?

LOL!
The post is not about Healing Miracles but it is about Casting out Demons (Christians call it deliverance). I just wanted to have your objective scientific explanation of the bezir behaviours.

Lennycool:

If God can use sinners to heal. Then WTF?
I'm an atheist so I don't believe in God or the Devil

You don't have to believe in God. I was asking you for possible scientific explanation of those manifestations.

shadeyinka:


LOL!
The post is not about Healing Miracles but it is about Casting out Demons (Christians call it deliverance). I just wanted to have your objective scientific explanation of the bezir behaviours.

Watin be the name of that chemical the brain day release again? Ever heard of the jerusalem effect?

shadeyinka:




I understand you very well but I don't think that your conclusion represents the actual experience of people based on the following:
1. Not all ministers who lay hand on people especially among the Pentecostals does deliverance irrespective of whether people fall or not.
2. Not everyone manifests during deliverance. Some deliverance occur without the tantrums you see on TV. Whether there will be manifestations or not is subject to the personality of the embedded demons, the magnitude of torment it experiences and the giftings of the deliverance minister.
3. Manifestations is not about being weak willed: a macho man-like student of mine manifested badly when arraigned for deliverance. He couldn't believe his eyes when I showed him the video recording from my cell phone. I believe you heard of Jim Iykes deliverance in SCOAN..its on YouTube you can search for it.

If you watch quite a few deliverances, I am sure your conclusion about them being emotional kind of people will change.

I can entertain questions

I am no atheist but in my view a fundamental dishonesty takes place in these charismatic churches in the name of “deliverance” and both deliverer and congregation are complicit in the macabre dance, I see auto-suggestive and mesmeric techniques reminiscent of live traveling hypnotists shows I witnessed decades ago living in the boonies in Canada, the unwary are brought up on stage, induced to hypnotism and made to produce all manner of ridiculous antics under auto-suggestion with no memory or recollection of their actions afterwards.

A congregant who is pre-disposed to the idea of demonic possession (and it is usually women or defence-less children) with preconceptions of the standard of behavior of one supposedly possessed will generally act accordingly under subtle manipulation. I promise you that there are no limits to the suggestibility of the human mind in the hands of a skilled operator.

This is not to say that demonic possession does not exist, it does but it is not the purview of the charlatan. I would add that with the exception of highly specialised and dedicated priests, with dispensation from "sanctum sanctorum" anyone attempting to expel a true demonic presence would likely be shattered by the mere emanations of such an entity, I know because I have seen the results of such fo.ol-hardiness first hand.

In my view what obtains in a lot of charismatic churches touting "deliverance" is little more than badly orchestrated psychological manifestations induced by sometimes well meaning but utterly deluded self-styled men of God. It amounts to a fraud perpetrated in the name of God.

EyeHateGod:

Watin be the name of that chemical the brain day release again? Ever heard of the jerusalem effect?

I exhausted all my chemistry textbooks looking for the chemical called "Jerusalem Effect". Na who discover the chemical! Wetin be the IUPAC nomenclature!

Abeg help me o!

shadeyinka:


I exhausted all my chemistry textbooks looking for the chemical called "Jerusalem Effect". Na who discover the chemical! Wetin be the IUPAC nomenclature!

Abeg help me o!

Where did u see me say the name of the chemical is jerusalem effect? That was another question entirely! Ever heard of the word jerusalem effect?

Sarassin:


I am no atheist but in my view a fundamental dishonesty takes place in these charismatic churches in the name of “deliverance” and both deliverer and congregation are complicit in the macabre dance, I see auto-suggestive and mesmeric techniques reminiscent of live traveling hypnotists shows I witnessed decades ago living in the boonies in Canada, the unwary are brought up on stage, induced to hypnotism and made to produce all manner of ridiculous antics under auto-suggestion with no memory or recollection of their actions afterwards.

I understand your views. Some charismatic ministers have turned it into a kind of "show". Some are not even interested in whether a person gets his deliverance or not.

However I will like to disagree with you on the theory of " inducement due to hypnotic suggestions". Why? A long time ago, I studied hypnotism and I can tell you that there is a big difference. In hypnotism, the subject rarely voluntare information different from what the hypnotist suggests.

In the case of deliverance, the outburst are usually spontaneous personalized experience. There is no script! Even the deliverance minister doesn't have a control or inclin to what will come out from the demonized.

With hind sight, I strongly believe that hypnotism is playing with demons. Deliverance is forcefully ejecting demons from the body, soul, spirit or environment of a person.

Sarassin:

A congregant who is pre-disposed to the idea of demonic possession (and it is usually women or defence-less children) with preconceptions of the standard of behavior of one supposedly possessed will generally act accordingly under subtle manipulation. I promise you that there are no limits to the suggestibility of the human mind in the hands of a skilled operator.

Have you watched Jim Iykes deliverance on YouTube. Was he weak willed or was he just acting? I don't think those who manifests are susceptible to suggestions.

Sarassin:

This is not to say that demonic possession does not exist, it does but it is not the purview of the charlatan. I would add that with the exception of highly specialised and dedicated priests, with dispensation from "sanctum sanctorum" anyone attempting to expel a true demonic presence would likely be shattered by the mere emanations of such an entity, I know because I have seen the results of such fo.ol-hardiness first hand.

I am not a Pastor, not even a "Penticostal Christian" neither do I own any fellowship but God has used me in this ministry of deliverance so I speak from personal practical experience.

Many Pastors will wantnyou to believe that it takes some special anointing to cast out demons but no, every BornAgain can cast out demons.

I believe that every Christian can cast out demons. It is not rocket science. Its just about faith in the command of Jesus"go, cast out demons".

From experience, if you are living in Christ, demons can boast but I tell you they are weak loud mouthed spirits. They are weak only in respect to the fact that Gods Angels watch over the righteous. Demons can kill a person if he meddles with willful sin.

Demons are totally different with that presented in the movies. Demons operates most of the time covertly.

Sarassin:

In my view what obtains in a lot of charismatic churches touting "deliverance" is little more than badly orchestrated psychological manifestations induced by sometimes well meaning but utterly deluded self-styled men of God. It amounts to a fraud perpetrated in the name of God.

There are real deliverance minstrations but I agree with you especially when deliverances are done as a form of mesmerizing the crowed.

Even you can do deliverance... The only difference will be how fast and how deep you can go due to difference in faith and experience you may have compared to a real deliverance minister.

EyeHateGod:

Where did u see me say the name of the chemical is jerusalem effect? That was another question entirely! Ever heard of the word jerusalem effect?

Sorry, I got you wrong. I haven't can you educate me please?

shadeyinka:

Sorry, I got you wrong. I haven't can you educate me please?

So u no get data?

shadeyinka:
It doesn't matter whether an atheist is Agnostic or Gnostic, the most common reaction to manifestations occurring especially during deliverances from Christians circles is to:

Waive off: as ACTING/ DRAMA!
Or
Discard as: SILLY!

Some Agnostics just conclude that the "Human Brain is Complex" so anything could happen. I have even met Agnostics who believe in gods (like Ogun, Osun and even Lucifer). Its difficult generalizing about Agnostic Atheist views about this.

However, I will like Atheists (Agnostics or Gnostics) to give possible logical or scientific explanations to Manifestations which occur in deliverance of the Demonized.

I have participated in deliverance ministrations and I can attest to the fact that what you see is neither planned acting nor silly outburst from weak minds.

I am attaching two short videos as a refresher:

The first is a deliverance through Skype:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLp7F1wBwfDzg3kzxV4Bkb3WtzIVaHoh8R&params=OAFIAVgI&v=rP35LvukPYI&mode=NORMAL

The Second is a deliverance during a crusade:

https://m.youtube.com/results?q=deliverance%20demon&sm=3

Pls only serious comments we can all learn

my good brother you talk too much sef lol, go and read hardmirror thread part 1 and 2 the answers are there for you

They had a Quantum Jump/Shift

I couldn't help but laugh. The video was funny. Other tumbnails was also funny. Look at their eyes (demon possessed eyes ).

Anyway op, we're yet to see any evidence suggesting that someone was really possessed by a demon or belonged to a marine kingdom as they usually confessed or as the pastors usually put it.

Since I was small till around my 1st yr in the university, I have been to many crusades & have attended some deliverance services. In all of them, I have neither shaken much less falling. Though I believed in god as of then, but I always wondered, why haven't an anointing (as they call it) touched me for once. Why haven't a demon possessed me in those services or anywhere else as am not the prayerful type.

I was feeling lucky but yet not satisfied, until I witnessed the hard truth. A friend that use to carry me along always fake his own fall. I was like why?? His answer was that he needed to belong

From that day, I started questioning & observing people falling & claiming demon possession, most of them were the same like that my friend, some are usually captivated by the awe of the minister and quite a good lot suffer from some sort of dissociative disorder.

stephenmorris:
my good brother you talk too much sef lol, go and read hardmirror thread part 1 and 2 the answers are there for you

I read the unfortunate case of hardmirror, sometimes, a warrior falls on the battle field. It doesn't make him less than a warrior (hardmirror my respect!).

Sometimes, the glory departs..
The race is not to the swift, the battle not to the strong...

The scriptures say we wrestle not against flesh and blood...and he who thinks he stand should take heed...

This is not about hardmirror, its not even a debate. It is to have an intellectual discussion on the phenomenon of deliverance.

ifenes:
They had a Quantum Jump/Shift

Your Physics pass my own o. Can you please elucidate?

dblackninja:

I couldn't help but laugh. The video was funny. Other tumbnails was also funny. Look at their eyes (demon possessed eyes ).

Anyway op, we're yet to see any evidence suggesting that someone was really possessed by a demon or belonged to a marine kingdom as they usually confessed or as the pastors usually put it.

Demons are spiritual equivalence of disease causing germs that infest a host and cause from mild unnoticeable illness to some serious illnesses. Now except with powerful electron microscope, we don't see them. Unfortunately, demons can not be detected by any physical means so that physical evidence will elude you till eternity.

dblackninja:

Since I was small till around my 1st yr in the university, I have been to many crusades & have attended some deliverance services. In all of them, I have neither shaken much less falling. Though I believed in god as of then, but I always wondered, why haven't an anointing (as they call it) touched me for once. Why haven't a demon possessed me in those services or anywhere else as am not the prayerful type.

LOL
Not all demonized people fall on the ground speaking gibberish and falling under the anointing is over hyped in this generation. I have actually met a guy like you who falls at will whenever hands is layer upon him however, such is a minority.

Manifestations of demons in deliverance is different from just falling down under whatever name. Under this influence, you may encounter a tiny girl who can hardly be restrained by three hefty men. You will see a naturally shy person speaking with such an arrogance that you will marvel at the transformation.

I have not fallen under the anointing too, neither have I manifested in deliverance sessions. You are not alone.

dblackninja:

I was feeling lucky but yet not satisfied, until I witnessed the hard truth. A friend that use to carry me along always fake his own fall. I was like why?? His answer was that he needed to belong

From that day, I started questioning & observing people falling & claiming demon possession, most of them were the same like that my friend, some are usually captivated by the awe of the minister and quite a good lot suffer from some sort of dissociative disorder.

You just need to watch a few clips with a healthy skeptism and you will be convinced that some truth lies within what you have seen.

Deliverances are Real

Lennycool:

If God can use sinners to heal. Then WTF?
I'm an atheist so I don't believe in God or the Devil

can you give example of this ?

CeoMYN:

I already got your points sir.
You are a christian right?
Do Jehovah bring disable people into this world intentionally? And what plans does Jehovah have for amputees and other disabled humans?
I ask because I can't understand why Jehovah who the Bible says is the almighty God will make someone deformed from birth.

Sorry I missed your post.

On earth, there are laws at work. These laws are seldom interfered by God. The whole system is lile an interplay of the laws of action and reaction. Whenever these laws are suspended, we call it a miracle

God does not choose if I sleep with a girl during her ovulation or not. But the consequence of that singular action is far encompassing. If both of us have a sickle cell gene, the likelihood that the child born will have sickle cell anemia is high.

The world is like a battlefield. Things happen beyond our control and some things happen as a consequence of our actions.

There have been NDE reports of blind people. They claim to be able to see in the other world.

Does God bring disabled people into the world? No!
People bring disabled people into the world some deliberately and most not intensionally. A man can inherit what his great grand fathers sowed in the world. Its just the way the laws play out.

If I have the right to inherit my fathers wealth, strength, handsomeness would I not have the right to inherit his mistake of marrying a dwarf or an albino.

Demons of parents are inherited by children. It is a cruel world but it is temporal. It is like a dream.

Through it all, at the time of harvest of the souls of men many of the feeble ones will be chosen and the strong ones rejected.

shadeyinka:


Sorry I missed your post.

On earth, there are laws at work. These laws are seldom interfered by God. The whole system is lile an interplay of the laws of action and reaction. Whenever these laws are suspended, we call it a miracle

God does not choose if I sleep with a girl during her ovulation or not. But the consequence of that singular action is far encompassing. If both of us have a sickle cell gene, the likelihood that the child born will have sickle cell anemia is high.

The world is like a battlefield. Things happen beyond our control and some things happen as a consequence of our actions.

There have been NDE reports of blind people. They claim to be able to see in the other world.

Does God bring disabled people into the world? No!
People bring disabled people into the world some deliberately and most not intensionally. A man can inherit what his great grand fathers sowed in the world. Its just the way the laws play out.

If I have the right to inherit my fathers wealth, strength, handsomeness would I not have the right to inherit his mistake of marrying a dwarf or an albino.

Demons of parents are inherited by children. It is a cruel world but it is temporal. It is like a dream.

Through it all, at the time of harvest of the souls of men many of the feeble ones will be chosen and the strong ones rejected.

You are saying that God allows nature to do it's work, meaning God don't give us a destiny at birth and our parents made us not God.
Not all christians would agree with you.

shadeyinka:


Not everything has a natural explanation.

1. If you make such a claim, then you automatically claim that you have infinite knowledge of Naturalistic laws and thus can know what nature can do and what it cant do.

2. Do you have any evidence to back up that claim?

3. How can you be sure if you yourself is constrained by the laws of Nature?

ValentineMary:

Let me drop my small experience.

While a xtian I used to see people saying God speaks through them during deliverance section. Some times when they tell u things about ur life, it is usually not true but they try to cover up by saying " Maybe u have forgotten" or "It would still happen"(which never happens). The others they get right are very shallow and vague . Most things they tell u about ur life which is true is usually from an alredy existing knowledge about u.

I am sorry to hear this because it happens. A supposed man of God even had to confess that he went to several fetish homes to collect powers to use for healing and other miracles in his church. ...like "if God can not be forced to perform miracles, I better get it from Satan!"

And some who would not go to that extreme result to lies and vague miracles. Personally for me, a prophecy where I can not hold you by your words is not to be taken seriously.

I guess whenever you have originals, counterfeits will also spring forth...and the more valuable the original the more prolific the counterfeits. Some men of God operate in strong "word of knowledge" giftings. The more specific the "word " is, the less likely it is to be fake. However, not all the "real" prophecies are from God. By their fruit you shall know them...

ValentineMary:

As for exorcisim, I have seen people go for that stuff and claimed to be seeing demons. When asked in details, u would notice that their demon is influenced by movies they watched. Others are people who are psychologically deprived or are just faking the whole thing.

I couldn't help but chuckle softly on reading this. All you need to do is to watch a few more clips with a healthy dose of skepticism but sincerity.

The demons you see in movies are totally different from the real demons. Demons in movies are ugly and super-powerful however, the demons you see in real life are boastful and proud..and seems to be weak during the course of deliverance.

I can tell you that except one is a pathological liar and an excellent actor, you can't fake deliverance. Most of those who manifests never bargained for misbehaving like this in public...some of these things are recorded and broadcast..I don't want to be caught manifesting on TV oh. LOL!

CeoMYN:

You are saying that God allows nature to do it's work, meaning God don't give us a destiny at birth and our parents made us not God.
Not all christians would agree with you.

Ultimately, God made all of us through our parents and the summation of choices that has been made on our behalf by our Parents, Our Society, Our Environment etc.

If God gives us our destiny at birth, He can not be just in sending us to hell for the sin of Rebellion to Him and lack of love to our neighbours.

Interestingly the fact that my Parents are Drunks and Drug addicts does not automatically make me wayward. Each one of us has been given a check in our spirit "our conscience" to guide us in conjuction with our mind and will.

If I married a white woman, we are likely to give birth to half casts...my choices have produced this outcome. We didn't create the baby but our genomes resulted in the physical body.