sonmvayina:


Read Ecclessiatics 12 :7 and psalm 104:29-31... Tell me what you think about it....

The first teaches that until we die, we can make a choice regarding our attitude to God, but once we die, we return to God to answer to Him regarding the choice we have made. There is no other opportunity to do so except while we still live in this body of dust.

The second teaches the same thing. We are not the sustainer of our own lives. We live because God animates us to live with the breath of life, that is, with a spirit that He creates and puts into us. When He recalls our spirits to answer for our time on earth, we have no choice but to return to Him and give account of our lives on earth.

Ihedinobi3:

The first teaches that until we die, we can make a choice regarding our attitude to God, but once we die, we return to God to answer to Him regarding the choice we have made. There is no other opportunity to do so except while we still live in this body of dust.

The second teaches the same thing. We are not the sustainer of our own lives. We live because God animates us to live with the breath of life, that is, with a spirit that He creates and puts into us. When He recalls our spirits to answer for our time on earth, we have no choice but to return to Him and give account of our lives on earth.

The body returns to dust and the spirit back to God who gave it... Is it not explicit enough..
Death is just an illusion.. We are spiritual beings having a human experience or walking a human path... I. E spirit dwelling inside a body made of dust, sealed by the breadth of God...

You, are trying to explain it with the mind of Christianity because you are trying to fit Jesus in after you find out he is useless to us.....

sonmvayina:


The body returns to dust and the spirit back to God who gave it... Is it not explicit enough..
Death is just an illusion.. We are spiritual beings having a human experience or walking a human path... I. E spirit dwelling inside a body made of dust, sealed by the breadth of God...

You, are trying to explain it with the mind of Christianity because you are trying to fit Jesus in after you find out he is useless to us.....

Of course it is explicit. As for death being an illusion, I'm not sure how you can say that after your first sentence. Clearly, if the body returns to the dust and the spirit goes back to God, death is real, since that is what death is.

As for being spirit beings having a human experience, I'm not sure why you felt the need to say that. We are spirits that currently live in physical bodies. That is an obvious fact, so I don't disagree with you.

As for trying to explain things with the mind of Christianity, I'm not sure what else you expect me to do. I am a follower of Jesus Christ, after all. I learn from Him and try to be like Him. As for finding out that He is useless to us, that is entirely your own unwarranted imagination. I don't believe that I have even so much as implied that I believe or have found out in any way that Jesus Christ is useless to human beings. On the contrary, I believe that He is the Foundation of all Creation. Without Him, this Creation would not exist at all.

Ihedinobi3:

Of course it is explicit. As for death being an illusion, I'm not sure how you can say that after your first sentence. Clearly, if the body returns to the dust and the spirit goes back to God, death is real, since that is what death is.

As for being spirit beings having a human experience, I'm not sure why you felt the need to say that. We are spirits that currently live in physical bodies. That is an obvious fact, so I don't disagree with you.

As for trying to explain things with the mind of Christianity, I'm not sure what else you expect me to do. I am a follower of Jesus Christ, after all. I learn from Him and try to be like Him. As for finding out that He is useless to us, that is entirely your own unwarranted imagination. I don't believe that I have even so much as implied that I believe or have found out in any way that Jesus Christ is useless to human beings. On the contrary, I believe that He is the Foundation of all Creation. Without Him, this Creation would not exist at all.

Asper your last statement... How come God did not reveal it to Moses or the prophet?.. Does it not bother you? The book of Amos 3:7 says, God does not do anything without first revealing it to his prophet, how come none knew about this Jesus... Deuteronomy 6:4 says "our Lord is but one Lord....

How did this Jesus relevant to God or to us?... If there is no basis for Jesus or Christianity why do you still believe... And which criteria did you use to dismiss Islam?

Ihedinobi3:

Of course it is explicit. As for death being an illusion, I'm not sure how you can say that after your first sentence. Clearly, if the body returns to the dust and the spirit goes back to God, death is real, since that is what death is.

As for being spirit beings having a human experience, I'm not sure why you felt the need to say that. We are spirits that currently live in physical bodies. That is an obvious fact, so I don't disagree with you.

As for trying to explain things with the mind of Christianity, I'm not sure what else you expect me to do. I am a follower of Jesus Christ, after all. I learn from Him and try to be like Him. As for finding out that He is useless to us, that is entirely your own unwarranted imagination. I don't believe that I have even so much as implied that I believe or have found out in any way that Jesus Christ is useless to human beings. On the contrary, I believe that He is the Foundation of all Creation. Without Him, this Creation would not exist at all.

What was the problem with the old testament that necessited the new testament.. What was the solution that Jesus provided.. Because I don't see any....

God hated human sacrifice and warned the Jews from doing it, in fact that was why he drove the people of canan, they where practicing detestable abominations.. He told the Jews "thou shall not kill"... What make you think God will approve a human sacrifice? His son for that matter if he had one?.. It does not make any sense..

It is that cult that the Romans rebranded as Christianity.. It got nothing to do with God.. They added the new testament at the end of the Jewish one to insult God just as Daniel prophesied in Daniel 7:25..

@"ihedinobi3..he even warned them in his commandments.. "do not have any other God BEFORE me".. No intermediary or mediator.... He wants a direct relationship with us.. Neither did he give any man the power to have Dominion over another human being.. 2ndly he warned" do not make the image or likeness of anything in heaven and on earth or under the waters below the earth, do not bow down to them or worship them... Why will you worship or believe in a god created in the likeness of a man(something that is found on earth).. It is against God's laws..

God was not joking when he gave those laws.. Keep them.. God's laws are the way, the truth and life.. Read psalm 119..it is a long poem about God's laws..

sonmvayina:


Asper your last statement... How come God did not reveal it to Moses or the prophet?.. Does it not bother you? The book of Amos 3:7 says, God does not do anything without first revealing it to his prophet, how come none knew about this Jesus... Deuteronomy 6:4 says "our Lord is but one Lord....

How did this Jesus relevant to God or to us?... If there is no basis for Jesus or Christianity why do you still believe... And which criteria did you use to dismiss Islam?

sonmvayina:


What was the problem with the old testament that necessited the new testament.. What was the solution that Jesus provided.. Because I don't see any....

God hated human sacrifice and warned the Jews from doing it, in fact that was why he drove the people of canan, they where practicing detestable abominations.. He told the Jews "thou shall not kill"... What make you think God will approve a human sacrifice? His son for that matter if he had one?.. It does not make any sense..

It is that cult that the Romans rebranded as Christianity.. It got nothing to do with God.. They added the new testament at the end of the Jewish one to insult God just as Daniel prophesied in Daniel 7:25..

sonmvayina:
@"ihedinobi3..he even warned them in his commandments.. "do not have any other God BEFORE me".. No intermediary or mediator.... He wants a direct relationship with us.. Neither did he give any man the power to have Dominion over another human being.. 2ndly he warned" do not make the image or likeness of anything in heaven and on earth or under the waters below the earth, do not bow down to them or worship them... Why will you worship or believe in a god created in the likeness of a man(something that is found on earth).. It is against God's laws..

God was not joking when he gave those laws.. Keep them.. God's laws are the way, the truth and life.. Read psalm 119..it is a long poem about God's laws..

I'll answer your posts in order.

Moses wrote the Pentateuch and these are some of the things that he recorded:

I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your seed and her seed;
he shall bruise you on the head,
and you shall bruise him on the heel.”
Genesis 3:15 NASB

15“The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your countrymen, you shall listen to him. 16“This is according to all that you asked of the LORD your God in Horeb on the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, let me not see this great fire anymore, or I will die.’ 17“The LORD said to me, ‘They have spoken well. 18‘I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen like you, and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19‘It shall come about that whoever will not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him.
Deuteronomy 18:15-19 NASB

In the second passage, your queries regarding the relevance of Jesus to God and to us are answered. Moses was a placeholder for the Lord Jesus. The Law that he gave was supposed to demonstrate to the Israelites and to everyone else who cared that it is impossible for human beings to please God. Therefore, we need something far more than knowledge of what pleases God - which knowledge is what the Law provided to some limited extent. Hence the Lord Jesus. He comes not only to account for all of our failures but also to make us pleasing to God, something that we could not be, given our complete inability to keep the Law.

I'm not sure what your reference to Islam is about, but I reject Islam because it is not the Truth.

Regarding your second post, I have already begun answering it in my comments above, but I will reiterate that the Law could not make us pleasing to God, since it was only an intimation of what pleases God. Just knowing what pleases God only exposes to us just how displeasing we are to Him and the total impossibility of our ever succeeding at pleasing Him on our own. The Law did (and still does) an excellent job of exposing our own native depravity, but it cannot save us, because it is not designed to save us. The Lord Jesus, on the other hand, had a human body and spirit designed for Him just so that He could do the job of saving us. In that body He carried all of our sins on the Cross and then He suffered the full weight of God's Anger against all human sin for three hours in that supernatural darkness that He endured. Then He gave up His physical life and was resurrected three days later as a testimony to the acceptability of His Sacrifice for us. That means that anyone who believes in Him is saved from having to suffer God's Anger against sin.

As for God's hatred of human sacrifice, you are, of course, correct that God hates it. But as I already demonstrated to you, the Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus was in God's Plan right from the beginning, and it was always perfect and acceptable to Him. What you may want to consider is that unsanctioned human sacrifice practiced by different kinds of people for millennia now has a root in that ancient promise that God made to Adam and Eve before turning them out of Eden. It was always known instinctively in mankind that the Death that Adam and Eve had earned by rebelling against God in the Garden was held in abeyance for a Savior Who could suffer it in our place and save us from having to suffer it too. That is what each rebellious culture in turn twisted into human sacrifice. The Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus was to be accomplished by nobody but God Himself. Just as it was incredibly arrogant of King Saul to offer the sacrifice instead of waiting for the prophet Samuel in 1 Samuel 13, it is abominably arrogant for anyone to, one, ordain a sacrifice that God has not commanded, and, two, to carry out that sacrifice without authorization. This was demonstrated in God's killing of two of Aaron's sons when they offered incense to God unauthorized.

As God taught us through Abraham and his offering of Isaac on Mount Moriah, He is the One Who will provide the Sacrifice Himself, and He will execute the Sacrifice Himself. That is what happened with the Lord Jesus. He is the Lamb provided by God, and He is the One upon Whom God poured out His Curse against sin (Isaiah 53).

As for the claim that the Romans created Christianity, I find it rather absurd in the face of actual history that teaches that Christians were persecuted by the Roman Empire for more than two centuries, whenever the Empire decided to concern itself with us. It is true that eventually, power-hungry and confused Christians - some, at least, of whom were not even Christians at all - allied with the Empire (as many immature Christians are doing today all over the world) and eventually created a monstrous caricature of the Faith of Jesus Christ, but pure Christianity has always remained apart from that monstrosity.

It is also absurd that the Romans added anything to the Old Testament. As I have shown you, in the Old Testament, you will find echoes and hints of the New. The New Testament was the realization, that is, the bringing to fulfillment of all things hoped for, promised, and prophesied in the Old. It had nothing to do with the Romans at all.

As for Daniel 7:25, that was quite obviously speaking of Revelation 13:5-6, which actually only proves your error about the New Testament. Both passages speak of the Antichrist or the Beast, the same seed of the Serpent's spoken of in Genesis 3:15, which I quoted above too.

Regarding your third post, you are, of course, correct that the Lord commands us to have no other gods before Him. But I have never seen the bit about an intermediary or mediator. What I have in fact seen is that the Lord has always given us intermediaries including Moses and the prophets. In fact, that was the whole point of Old Testament Aaronic priesthood. But none of them was ever qualified to seal the rift between God and Man. Only the Lord Jesus was.

That God wants a direct relationship with us is also true. That was why He came by Himself to become one of us and die on the Cross for our sins. Jesus Christ, after all, is the same God Whom you quoted as saying that we must have no other god beside Him. What is true of the Father in this case is also true of Him.

As for not giving any man authority over another, you are pretty much denying all of the Old Testament. Moses, for one, was given authority over Pharaoh, the Egyptians, and the Israelites. Every judge, king, and prophet after that was too. The entire Bible is chockfull of this kind of thing, so I'm not sure what your basis is for claiming the contrary.

I completely agree with you not only that the Bible commands us to make no images to worship and to worship nothing except God, but also that we must not do such things. But I'm not sure what your point in stating this fact is. Are you perhaps meaning to argue with it that it is wrong then to worship Jesus Christ? If you are, your argument is wrong. The Lord Jesus is Himself God, has always been, will always be. He is no image or idol of any sort. That He put on humanity for our salvation does not disqualify Him from being God. In fact, upon His entry into the world as a human being, the Father commands all His Angels to worship Him (Hebrews 1:6). I can't see how that is unclear, especially in view of the witness of Isaiah 9:1-7.

Ihedinobi3:

In a relative sense, you are right that physical death is not that big of a deal, because the real "us" is the spirit that will live forever. This is why the Lord Jesus tells us not to fear those who kill the body but cannot do more than that. But in an absolute sense, physical death is an unpleasant anomaly. We were not created for physical death (Genesis 2:17; 2 Corinthians 5:4). Our body is precious to us because it is a covering, like a garment or a house, for our spirits (2 Corinthians 5:1-5). Without them, we are naked: for this reason, even at death we are given an interim body, a sheath for our spirits as we await Resurrection (2 Corinthians 5:3 in Greek; Revelation 6:9-11) when we will receive new bodies - for the Righteous, powerful bodies that shine like stars forever and will be capable of far more than these weak ones we have now are (1 Corinthians 15; Daniel 12:2-3), and for the unrighteous bodies suited to eternal punishment (Daniel 12:2; John 5:28-29). So, physical death is still a big deal, in and of itself. If it were not, murder would not be a problem in God's Eyes or man's.

As for the Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus, of course it matters that He was killed physically because His physical Death was unjust. He was not a criminal. He never blasphemed, as the Jewish authorities pretended that He did, and He never fomented rebellion against the Romans as they accused Him of. He was murdered by Jewish and Roman authorities for His Love of the Father and for His Zeal for the Truth. But His Sacrifice for us was spiritual, not physical. The Price that He paid for our sins was His Spiritual Death, which He suffered for three terrible hours while still physically alive on the Cross (Matthew 27:45-46, 50; Mark 15:33-34, 37; Luke 23:44-46; John 19:28-30).

After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), “I thirst.” A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
John 19:28-30 ESV

The famous "tetelestai" was uttered only after the events recorded in the Matthew, Mark, and Luke accounts. The thing that had been accomplished or "finished" was the Work of our Salvation. It was only after He had paid the Price that He exhaled His human spirit and gave up His physical Life.

@ Red

the real Jesus is the Spirit , He can't die, Jesus himself did not die for anybody

so ordinary Covering/garment died NOT Jesus ? @ highlight

Peacefullove:


@ Red

the real Jesus is the Spirit , He can't die, Jesus himself did not die for anybody

so ordinary Covering/garment died NOT Jesus ? @ highlight

So, basically, you can't read an argument that does not agree with you.

Ihedinobi3:

So, basically, you can't read an argument that does not agree with you.

if I didn't read, would I point those Facts I mentioned from your post ?

respond to the points raised by your post

you said the body is just a covering/garment. FACT: your garment is never you.

you again stress the real person is Spirit , meaning can't die, - FACT check: How then can you claim the person called Jesus die when it was ordinary garment that died ?

Peacefullove:


if I didn't read, would I point those Facts I mentioned from your post ?

respond to the points raised by your post

you said the body is just a covering/garment. FACT: your garment is never you.

you again stress the real person is Spirit , meaning can't die, - FACT check: How then can you claim the person called Jesus die when it was ordinary garment that died ?

Yes, in fact, you would, if you are dishonestly looking for things to gripe about.

Whenever you read the entire post and have a question or counter, call my attention. I'll be here.

Peacefullove:


if I didn't read, would I point those Facts I mentioned from your post ?

respond to the points raised by your post

you said the body is just a covering/garment. FACT: your garment is never you.

you again stress the real person is Spirit , meaning can't die, - FACT check: How then can you claim the person called Jesus die when it was ordinary garment that died ?

Maybe Jesus was an ordinary garment No wonder people who dress like churchgoers on Sundays are called Christians. Then when they put off their church garments and wear other clothes, you hardly know them from the rest of the world

Ihedinobi3:

Yes, in fact, you would, if you are dishonestly looking for things to gripe about.


Whenever you read the entire post and have a question or counter, call my attention. I'll be here.

Funny enough, what you called dishonest were right there In your post, you should be ashamed of yourself, will Jesus be proud of you for those utterances ?