Obalende:

Any atheist post will incur divine curses upon the person - this is a respectful healthy debate.

Job 3:1-3 Amplified Bible (AMP):


¹AFTER THIS, Job opened his mouth and cursed his day (birthday).

²And Job said,

³Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night which announced, There is a man-child conceived.

⁴Let that day be darkness! May not God above regard it, nor light shine upon it.

Job 38:1-41 Contemporary English Version (CEV):


¹From out of a storm, the LORD said to posting Job:

²Why do you talk so much when you know so little?

³Now get ready to face me! Can you answer the questions I ask?

⁴How did I [/b]lay the foundation for the earth? Were you there?

⁵Doubtless you know who decide its length and width.

⁶What supports the foundation? Who placed the cornerstone,

⁷while morning stars sang, and angels rejoiced?

⁸When the ocean was born, I set its boundaries

⁹and wrapped it in blankets of thickest fog.

¹⁰Then I built a wall around it, locked the gates,

¹¹and said, "Your powerful waves stop here! They can go no farther."

¹²[b]Did you ever tell the sun to rise? And did it obey?

¹³Did it take hold of the earth and shake out the wicked like dust from a rug?

¹⁴Early dawn outlines the hills like stitches on clothing or sketches on clay.

¹⁵But its light is too much for those who are evil, and their power is broken.

¹⁶Posters Job, have you ever walked on the ocean floor?

¹⁷Have you seen the gate to the world of the dead?

¹⁸And how large is the earth? Tell me, if you know!

¹⁹Where is the home of light, and where does darkness live?

²⁰Can you lead them home?

²¹I'm certain you must be able to, since you were already born when I created everything.

²²Have you been to the places where I keep snow and hail,

²³until I use them to punish and conquer nations?

²⁴From where does lightning leap, or the east wind blow?

²⁵Who carves out a path for thunderstorms? Who sends torrents of rain

²⁶on empty deserts where no one lives?

²⁷Rain that changes barren land to meadows green with grass.

²⁸Who is the father of the dew and of the rain?

²⁹Who gives birth to the sleet and the frost

³⁰that fall in winter, when streams and lakes freeze solid as a rock?

³¹Can you arrange stars in groups such as Orion and the Pleiades?

³²Do you control the stars or set in place the Big Dipper and the Little Dipper?

³³Do you know the laws that govern the heavens, and can you make them rule the earth?

³⁴Can you order the clouds to send a downpour,

³⁵or will lightning flash at your command?

³⁶Did you teach birds to know that rain or floods are on their way?

³⁷Can you count the clouds or pour out their water

³⁸on the dry, lumpy soil?

³⁹When lions are hungry, do you help them hunt?

⁴⁰Do you send an animal into their den?

⁴¹And when starving young ravens cry out to me for food, do you satisfy their hunger?

Job 40:1-8 New International Version - UK (NIVUK):


¹The LORD said to Posters Job:

²Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him? Let him who accuses God answer him!

³Then Job answered the LORD:

⁴I am unworthy— how can I reply to you? I put my hand over my mouth.

⁵ I spoke once, but I have no answer— twice, but I will say no more.

⁶Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm:

⁷Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me.

⁸Would you discredit my justice? Would you condemn me to justify yourself?

Obalende:

. Any atheist post will incur divine curses upon the person - this is a respectful healthy debate.

Duduspace:


@Recognise

No need for the long post,

Just tell us God is accuser, prosecutor, judge and executioner

and that we have no say at all in the matter. no be so?

Obalende:

no mazaje, abozulu, etc

"I did not ask to be created, so I am not responsible for my actions." It continues - "for had I had a choice, I would have chosen not to be created thereby avoiding sin, temptations, persecutions, sufferings or hell." Whats your view - support with Bible. Any atheist post will incur divine curses upon the person - this is a respectful healthy debate.

Obalende:

no mazaje, abozulu, etc

Any atheist post will incur divine curses upon the person

Obalende:


@duduspace
the atheists do not allow Christians to debate their own religion and distract good Christian discussions.
"He that blasphemeth the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven in this age nor in the age to come"
this is what atheists continue to do on christian threads; I claim no divinity but what I have said is Biblical and God is the Judge - I am just warning atheists of possible danger. I dont like seeing stuff like what mazaje has just posted on my thread (I could not even read it - its blashemy) but thats by the way.

Obalende:

mazaje, you have won - please now stop posting so my topic can be addressed. thanks.

Obalende:

u say you are based in Finland - your behavior is not european - i have politely asked you to not post into an uninvited thread which was clearly spelt out so that genuine christian discussions can be carried out peacefully. I specifically referenced you in the original post to steer clear knowing from your posts the venom of your anti christian posts. PLEASE.

Obalende:

@duduspace
the atheists do not allow Christians to debate their own religion and distract good Christian discussions.
"He that blasphemeth the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven in this age nor in the age to come"
this is what atheists continue to do on christian threads; I claim no divinity but what I have said is Biblical and God is the Judge - I am just warning atheists of possible danger. I dont like seeing stuff like what mazaje has just posted on my thread (I could not even read it - its blashemy) but thats by the way.

Obalende:


@ Recognise

Actually I have some objections to your response you gave in Job.

Asking if one has walked the ocean floor does not answer the question.

A man who chose and did not want to be created doesnt care what happens in the world of the dead;

amazing creation he cares less about for he chooses not to exist;

therefore those passages only answer the question 30%.

Isaiah 64:8:


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

And now, O Jehovah, thou [art] our Father,

We [are] the clay, and Thou our Framer,

And the work of Thy hand -- all of us.

---

---

Contemporary English Version (CEV)

You, LORD, are our Father.

We are nothing but clay,

but you are the potter who molded us.

Isaiah 45:9 Contemporary English Version (CEV):


. . . , you have no right to argue with your Creator.

You are merely a clay pot shaped by a potter.

The clay doesn't ask,

"Why did you make me this way?

Where are the handles?"

Romans 9:20-26:


Contemporary English Version (CEV)

²⁰But, my friend, I ask, "Who do you think you are to question God?

Does the clay have the right to ask the potter why he shaped it the way he did?

²¹Doesn't a potter have the right to make a fancy bowl and a plain bowl out of the same lump of clay?"

²²God wanted to show his anger and reveal his power against everyone who deserved to be destroyed. But instead, he patiently put up with them.

²³He did this by showing how glorious he is when he has pity on the people he has chosen to share in his glory.

²⁴Whether Jews or Gentiles, we are those chosen ones,

²⁵Just as the Lord says in the book of Hosea,

   "Although they are not my people,

   I will make them my people.

   I will treat with love those nations  that have never been loved.

²⁶"Once they were told, You are not my people.'

   But in that very place they will be called children of the living God."

---

---

Amplified Bible (AMP)

²⁰But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and answer back to God?

Will what is formed say to him that formed it, Why have you made me thus?

²¹Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same mass (lump) one vessel for beauty and distinction and honorable use, and another for menial or ignoble and dishonorable use?

²²What if God, although fully intending to show [the awfulness of] His wrath and to make known His power and authority, has tolerated with much patience the vessels (objects) of [His] anger which are ripe for destruction?

²³And [what if] He thus purposes to make known and show the wealth of His glory in [dealing with] the vessels (objects) of His mercy which He has prepared beforehand for glory,

²⁴Even including ourselves whom He has called, not only from among the Jews but also from among the Gentiles (heathen)?

²⁵Just as He says in Hosea, Those who were not My people I will call My people, and her who was not beloved [I will call] My beloved.

²⁶And it shall be that in the very place where it was said to them, You are not My people, they shall be called sons of the living God.

Obalende:


@Recognise

²²God wanted to show his anger and reveal his power against everyone who deserved to be destroyed.

But instead, he patiently put up with them. 

This is my Holy argument - how can one deserve to be destroyed when he did not ask to be created

The verses in Romans you have quoted are true

- we are the clay and He is the Maker; but it doesnt directly answer the question; it provides a threat not an answer.

This "I Did Not Ask To Be Created" theory has baffled me for years and of course I am a christian,

but I am being inquisitive to really know the CORE Christian theology.

Revelation 4:11 CEV:


"Our Lord and God,

   you are worthy

   to receive glory,

   honor, and power.

   You created all things,

   and by your decision they are

   and were created."

1 Conrithians 2:9 Contemporary English Version (CEV):


But it is just as the Scriptures say,

   "What God has planned

   for people who love him

   is more than eyes have seen

   or ears have heard.

   It has never even

   entered our minds!"

Abuzola:


I give thanks to God am a muslim and not a cross worshipper, wow, i thank God o

Abuzola:


Don't get me provoke

Obalende:


@ Recognise

I have a say because I did not ask to be created and I am being threatened with HELL.

A lot has gone on which I wont go into before posting to.

There is nothing like crossing boundaries - I refuse to be scared. If God doesnt want me to think for myself then He should take away my mind. But just a brief:

1.) Condition of attaining heaven is belief in Jesus Christ - right? WRONG. Apparently, only those who endure to the end and those whose names were written AND REMAIN in the Lambs Book of Life will be saved.

2.) Recently a recent popular MOG (name withheld) gave a sermon that baffled me.

On how the Book of Life was written before the foundation of the world and how the apostles only went into cities to preach the gospel to bring ONLY those foreknown by God to salvation.

And that as soon as all those whose names were written in that Book are saved, the trumpet blows; and on how only a SMALL REMNANT FEW make it to heaven.

I deduce from the last phrase that many are those who think they were Christians who will be disappointed when denied entrance to the kingdom.

Now this is the thrust of my argument - why then bother with creation when you knew some are destined for Hell

- dont go on about how I am man and God is God as that does not provide answers.

thnx.