Michel Platini has succeeded somewhat in changing the face of the UCL landscape now there are more unknown clubs from less-fancied european countries in the knock-out phases than ever before. . . . do you think this makes the UCL any stronger than it was before?

Personally, i feel the UCL is much stronger now because there's a lot more variety to it. . . .

RuuDie:

Personally, i feel the UCL is much stronger now because there's a lot more variety to it. . . .

It's not much stronger.
The quality has dropped but UEFA cannot be blamed for it.
There are more useless teams in the UCL than the English Premiership and it's sad.

Sauron,
It's not about the other clubs from other countries.
The content is watery.
When the CL started,it was 8 teams in the final group phase.There you could see the best teams available.
The competition started being watered down when countries started getting extra representatives into the group stages.
Platini felt the competition wasn't representative of all of Europe;and to be fair,he has a point.
But at the end of the day,people want to see the best teams.It's kind of ludicrous that teams from holland and France that finish second or third have to qualify for the group stage while teams in England and spain (because of some ranking) that finished third go straight into the group stage draw.

I think the UCL is better and much more competitive now than ever before because the introduction of these "weaker teams" brings a fresh new dimension to the competition. . . .

Lets face it, what we've been having is basically just a "recycling" of sorts. Practically the same players and managers squaring-off against each other in the same familiar terrains; albeit under different color jerseys and club badges.

Its not all about the game on the field. . . . its so much more than that.

Eastbay:

Sauron,
It's not about the other clubs from other countries.
The content is watery.
When the CL started,it was 8 teams in the final group phase.There you could see the best teams available.
The competition started being watered down when countries started getting extra representatives into the group stages.
Platini felt the competition wasn't representative of all of Europe;and to be fair,he has a point.But at the end of the day,people want to see the best teams.It's kind of ludicrous that teams from holland and France that finish second or third have to qualify for the group stage while teams in England and spain (because of some ranking) that finished third go straight into the group stage draw.

You're right about that eastbay. . . . . . i feel, knowingly or unknowingly Platini is killing 2 birds with a stone.

Ruud,
I get your point,but the only way to change the "recycling"as you put it,is to encourage the local leagues to get stronger.How they do that is their problem.
Adding teams we never heard about doesn't necessarily translate to making it better,because at the end of the day,like i said,fans want to see the best teams and the best players as well.
TV companies will want to see for example,Real and Milan play as many times as possible.
Because right now,barring the odd slip-up,we practically know who will qualify for the next round the way it is right now.
I remember 1999;United,Bayern and Barcelona were in a group that only one team could qualify automatically.Bayern topped the group,United qualified for the quarters as one of two best runners-up.
I still fault the qualifying criteria from various leagues.Because Rubin beat Barca doesn't necessarily mean the standard is improved.
It's my take sha.Feel free to opinionate.

Eastbay:

Sauron,
It's not about the other clubs from other countries.
The content is watery.
When the CL started,it was 8 teams in the final group phase.There you could see the best teams available.
The competition started being watered down when countries started getting extra representatives into the group stages.
Platini felt the competition wasn't representative of all of Europe;and to be fair,he has a point.
But at the end of the day,people want to see the best teams.It's kind of ludicrous that teams from holland and France that finish second or third have to qualify for the group stage while teams in England and spain (because of some ranking) that finished third go straight into the group stage draw.

UEFA started wiv 8 teams at the group stages that means there's hope for CAF CL

sorry for digressing a lil. . . let the discussions continue

@ eastbay,

The variety / dimensions i speak of is many-fold.

First, teams are made to work especially when you're playing a team they know next to nothing about. you have to research and plan your game with a little more attention than you'd with a familiar team made up of familiar players - like the saying goes "the devil you know. . . . "
and many of such little-known sides are so motivated when they have such opportunities to play the bigger teams on the big stage and as such tend to go the extra mile to make a positive impact.

Also the exposure to a fresh, unconventional way of football reasoning - i remember legendary coach of Dynamo Kiev Valeriy Lobanovskiy.

Travel distances, bad pitches, weather, hostile reception, sub-standard training and hotel facilities etc. all these are factors can sway the outcome of a match and indeed competitions. they test the resolve, they test the strength of players / teams.

Ruud,
Nice points.
However,beyond all those valid points you raised,we need to remember that the UCL was once elitist;till it started getting big in terms of finances;and then everybody wanted a piece of the financial pie.
Yes,if I were to be traveling to say Artmedia,I'd supposedly do my research,but that's not entirely true.Most big teams go to these tricky places just to play for a point,unless a win is absolutely essential.The aim these days,given the fixture list each season,is to qualify with minimum fuss and focus on the knock-out stages.To me, that doesnt improve the standard especially if you know that if you win your three home games and nick a point on the road in three games,you're home and dry.

Eastbay:

Ruud,
Nice points.
However,beyond all those valid points you raised,we need to remember that the UCL was once elitist;till it started getting big in terms of finances;and then everybody wanted a piece of the financial pie.
Yes,if I were to be traveling to say Artmedia,I'd supposedly do my research,but that's not entirely true.Most big teams go to these tricky places just to play for a point,unless a win is absolutely essential.The aim these days,given the fixture list each season,is to qualify with minimum fuss and focus on the knock-out stages.To me, that doesnt improve the standard especially if you know that if you win your three home games and nick a point on the road in three games,you're home and dry.

financial pie aside. . . . tell me the fact that you can drop vital points in bucharesti, tirana or valletta which could hamper your chances in a major tournament doesn't put fear in the mind of the footie-super powers and cause em to approach these games with seriousness!?

Tell me the knowledge that the minnows have certain things to their advantage that could enable em upset the odds and steal points from the so-called super powers and somehow tilt the balance of things doesn't inspire em to give their all and strive to advance!?

we have to admit that in the long-run, admittance of some of these unfancied, unpopular teams into the UCL is bringing about a level playing field in more ways than 1.

Take the CAF case as an instance. . . . . with all the heavyweights abound, who is playing the finals heartland and tp mazembe - hardly household names on the continent.

Ruud,
If you drop the odd point or two in those remote locations,once you hit 10 points (3 home wins and a draw away) you're safely through.
The fixture list in Europe will ensure that the big teams will plot for this target.Most superpowers will not be worried at dropping points away from home knowing that 9 times out of 10 they will win at home against those minnows.
A level playing field,being the right thing to do most times, doesn't necessarily mean the competition is there.Because a cursory look at all the groups (with the exception of one or two-liverpool,bayern) are rather predictable given the trend of the results.
Yes the shocks will come,but shocks can happen in every tournament;and only when these minnows start getting through to the latter stages at the expense of the bigger teams on a regular basis can we say the competition is improving.Till then,as it stands,the tournament,for me,has been seriously watered down.
As per CAF;Heartland (not a minnow:they've gotten far in the old format on a number of occasions-finals in 1988 as Iwuanyanwu) and TP Mazembe (a former winner,if I'm correct) while not glorious names, got to the finals because teams like Ahly,Esperance,Etoile Du Sahel and Enyimba are not present;because they didn't qualify.It's an odd change in the face of the finalists,but truth is next year and the years to come,the regular suspects will be there and about.

RuuDie:

Personally, i feel the UCL is much stronger now because there's a lot more variety to it. . . .

I disagree. Some of the teams in the champs lge are useless beyond belief.

chic2pimp:

I disagree. Some of the teams in the champs lge are useless beyond belief.

chelsea, arsenal etc were all useless beyond belief at some point in their existence too. . . .

RuuDie:

chelsea, arsenal etc were all useless beyond belief at some point in their existence too. . . .

We no longer have the amount of quality teams that we used to have.

Of course you'll still get the odd shock results here and there during the group stages however come the business the end of the competition we all know this teams won't be involved

chic2pimp:

We no longer have the amount of quality teams that we used to have.

Of course you'll still get the odd shock results here and there during the group stages however come the business the end of the competition we all know this teams won't be involved

Yes. . . . come the business end of the competition, we're going have the same ol' teams involved cuz its only them thats allowed to play - thats the recycling am talking about.

From odd results, major shake-ups are born. . . watch and see!
I believe a change is on the horizon - as long as, the clubs from Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Albania etc start getting into the action, the balance will shift and it is shifting.

Stronger?, i'm not so sure. More interesting yes, cos upsets like Rubin against Barca is sensational stuff. But really, how many people were tuned in to watch that match in the first place.

slimshay:

Stronger?, i'm not so sure. More interesting yes, cos upsets like Rubin against Barca is sensational stuff. But really, how many people were tuned in to watch that match in the first place.

More interesting & yes. . . . . Stronger!

Do you think people are not fed up of watching dour Liverpool - Chelsea games yr in and out in the UCL the fact that two "big" names are squaring up against each other doesn't make a tourney strong or interesting. . . . in fact, fascinating spectacles in footie tourneys have been served up by less known / fancied teams.

My point is this. . . . . when we have some of this "small" clubs to "disturb" here and there, it makes the tournament less monotonous.
For instance, look at the Barca/Inter/Rubin group - tell me some1 is not getting excited out there about something unbelievable happening there. . . . . . invariably, these kind of situations heightens tensions and makes teams up their game to scale or fall by the wayside just like UTD seasons ago when they were drawn with Lille, Benfica and Villareal.
Frankly, am tired of seeing teams stroll thru the qualifying stages like they was playing the Carling Cup.
Look at the Europa ligue, do you see any particular pattern of dominance No. . . . . because at every turn, you don't know what to expect and thats just the beauty of the game there.

I agree with Ruudie on this.

isn't it just a refreshing break from the baseless 1-way traffic of the past. . . . .

Group A - Bourdeaux 10pts, juve 8pts Bayern 4pts. . . . who'd have ever envisioned such like 5yrs ago

Group C: Milan 7pts, Madrid 7pts, Marseille 6pts, Zurich 3pts - isn't there still all to play for here

Group F: Barcelona 4pts, Kiev 4pts, Rubin 4pts, Inter 3pts. . . . . . stiff competition or what

So, is the level of competition in the UCL really dropping Is it stronger and much more competitive now

RuuDie:

More interesting & yes. . . . . Stronger!

Do you think people are not fed up of watching dour Liverpool - Chelsea games yr in and out in the UCL the fact that two "big" names are squaring up against each other doesn't make a tourney strong or interesting. . . . in fact, fascinating spectacles in footie tourneys have been served up by less known / fancied teams.

My point is this. . . . . when we have some of this "small" clubs to "disturb" here and there, it makes the tournament less monotonous.
For instance, look at the Barca/Inter/Rubin group - tell me some1 is not getting excited out there about something unbelievable happening there. . . . . . invariably, these kind of situations heightens tensions and makes teams up their game to scale or fall by the wayside just like UTD seasons ago when they were drawn with Lille, Benfica and Villareal.
Frankly, am tired of seeing teams stroll thru the qualifying stages like they was playing the Carling Cup.
Look at the Europa ligue, do you see any particular pattern of dominance No. . . . . because at every turn, you don't know what to expect and thats just the beauty of the game there.

I agree totally!

In as much as i like your arguments RuuDie, what you have shown there highlights the fact that it is ore interesting not stronger. Upsets are interesting, rooting for the underdog to win is interesting but not necessarily stronger.

It is quite noble of UEFA to attempt to put teams from all elagues into t he top competion i Europe but i'll very much wait for the result of the return leg in Rubin Kazan before i will sart saying Russian league is now stronger because they got a one in ten upset result.

RuuDie:

Yes. . . . come the business end of the competition, we're going have the same ol' teams involved cuz its only them thats allowed to play - thats the recycling am talking about.

From odd results, major shake-ups are born. . . watch and see!
I believe a change is on the horizon - as long as, the clubs from Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Albania etc start getting into the action, the balance will shift and it is shifting.

Balance is shifting ke? I don't think so. The only reason it seems that way is cuz many of em' strong leagues no longer have great teams.

They might have good teams but they don't have great teams

chic2pimp:

Balance is shifting ke? I don't think so. The only reason it seems that way is cuz many of em' strong leagues no longer have great teams.

They might have good teams but they don't have great teams

from good teams, evolve great teams, players and managers alike.

RuuDie:

from good teams, evolve great teams, players and managers alike.

Errr. . . . I see no great teams evolving from this current bunch .

slimshay:

In as much as i like your arguments RuuDie, what you have shown there highlights the fact that it is ore interesting not stronger. Upsets are interesting, rooting for the underdog to win is interesting but not necessarily stronger.

It is quite noble of UEFA to attempt to put teams from all elagues into t he top competion i Europe but i'll very much wait for the result of the return leg in Rubin Kazan before i will sart saying Russian league is now stronger because they got a one in ten upset result.

Definitely interesting. . . .  & sure as hell stronger!
By "stronger" we mean good, healthy competition. . . . . . two "big" names against each other doesn't necessarily translate to stronger competition. Two good football playing teams does.

& pls the result in Rubin matters not too much; wait till the roll-call of qualifiers is announced.

RuuDie:

from good teams, evolve great teams, players and managers alike.

like we never saw the best player in the world ever coming from africa. . . . .

RuuDie:

like we never saw the best player in the world ever coming from africa. . . . .

Nope that was always going to happen sooner rather than later.

I agree with you in that the UCL is becoming more interesting.