~Sauron~:

U are not serious.

Krayola and Debosky should tell us how John O'Shea is better than Kolo Toure, Sagna and Ashley Cole in the last 12 months.

How about u ask Ferguson why started most of ur games last season?

ritchboy:

According to krayola, a computer can tell us how many points a pass is worth. . . . U must be an even bigger fool than i initially thought. Variables to determine how good a pass is? My a$$ is laughing at you!
make no mistake about it, the amount of points each stat is worth was determined by sexually frustrated pot bellied men going through a mid life crisis and not some super computer from the future. How is that any different from another analysts opinion?
Its amazing the amount of sugar coated shit people are willing to swallow.
I understand u are desperate to be of different opinion than others. but most of the time people do that, they end up looking exactly as u do now. . . FOOLISH!

another post with nothing meaningful worthy of a response. why are u so predictable?

Krayola:

How about u ask Ferguson why started most of your games last season?

The number of minutes O'Shea copped shouldn't be a determinant because these stats are graded per minute.

I am taking you on O'Shea's case.

O'Shea copped 1986 minutes in the EPL last season and the list below is the stats of his counterparts.

Gael Clichy(2655 minutes)
Jaglieka(2947 minutes)
Sagna(2939 minutes)
Hangeland(3330 minutes)
Toure(2278 minutes)

Unless you wanna tell us here that O'Shea makes more contribution to his team than his fellow defenders do to their respective teams then you gotta admit the stats are rubbish.

Krayola
i have made my points and u have nothing to say to counter them, because they are undisputable, even to a fool. Instead u try to say something clever. Sorry to disappoint u, but ur last post was just as dumb as its predecessors.

@ ritchboy. . .what point have u made? that it was analysed by sexually frustrated men, and that computers can't analyse complex data given well reasoned out and clearly defined "parameters"? be real. . If those are the types of arguments that u want to be making then enjoy yourself.

~Sauron~:

The number of minutes O'Shea copped shouldn't be a determinant because these stats are graded per minute.

I am taking you on O'Shea's case.

O'Shea copped 1986 minutes in the EPL last season and the list below is the stats of his counterparts.

Gael Clichy(2655 minutes)
Jaglieka(2947 minutes)
Sagna(2939 minutes)
Hangeland(3330 minutes)
Toure(2278 minutes)

Unless you wanna tell us here that O'Shea makes more contribution to his team than his fellow defenders do to their respective teams then you gotta admit the stats are rubbish.

They are not calculated based on only how many minutes u play. Playing more minutes doesn't mean u will get more points.

@ sauron

Are there a minimum number of minutes a player has to play to be ranked?

All players are ranked irrespective of how many minutes they have played.

There is no minimum number of minutes a player has to play, however a player's points total is divided by the total number of minutes played in the last 12 months. Those who have played less than 2,000 minutes will still have their points total divided by 2,000*, therefore penalising players who are either injured, not selected or suspended for a considerable period of time.

*2,000 minutes is the average number of minutes played by a player who has played in at least 50% of his team's league matches. This equates to 65% of a Bundesliga season and 58% of a season in the other four leagues - excluding Champions League matches.

Krayola:

They are not calculated based on only how many minutes u play. Playing more minutes doesn't mean u will get more points.

Exactly!!!

I pointed this out to Debosky earlier on and when you mentioned i should ask SAF why he kept playing O'Shea last season, i came out with the stats of the other defenders.

Now that we know O'Shea did not cop more minutes than his peers, did not score a single league goal last season. . . .please tell us how he is better than Cashley Cole, Sagna, Clichy, Lescott and Phil Jaglieka.

Sauron. u're missing the point i was trying to make. Playing more minutes does not mean u played better.

I pointed out that O'shea started 20 league games last season to illustrate that Ferguson thinks he is a good player, and not to show that he played more than everyone else.

Is this even worth a debate? Any statistical ranking that has henry as no 1, maicon at 140, etc is OBVIOUSLY FLAWED.
A simple comparison between the actim index player rankings and this one will prove my point. . . Denilson was 6th or so in the actim index. . . he's nowhere to be found here.
ITS NOTHING MORE THAN THE OPINION OF A GROUP OF PEOPLE! . . . Like actim. Anyone who finds this too difficult to understand is a lost cause.

Krayola:

Sauron. u're missing the point i was trying to make. Playing more minutes does not mean u played better.

I pointed out that O'shea started 20 league games last season to illustrate that Ferguson thinks he is a good player, and not to show that he played more than everyone else.

How can Fergie think O'Shea is a good player?
He is just a necessary evil because he is versatile and he doesn't get injured. . . . .apart from that, he is the most useless defender in the EPL.
There's no way any stat can prove to me O'Shea is better than Lescott or Phil Jaglieka based on their contributions in the last 12 months.

Well, u are entitled to your opinion.

I don't think Lampard is better than Xavi either. But based on stats he is, and that is just the fact.

So much that I would have loved to believe this but with Luca Toni on that list at that number, it is nothing but LIES

“Statistics are like miniskirts: They give you good ideas but hide the important things”


How can Luca Toni be better than Babartov in the last 12 months? Babartov had the highest assist in the EPL last season.Luca Toni was sent to the reserve

safex101:

“Statistics are like miniskirts: They give you good ideas but hide the important things”


How can Luca Toni be better than Babartov in the last 12 months? Babartov had the highest assist in the EPL last season.Luca Toni was sent to the reserve

Berbatov had 9 goals and 9 assists in 29 league starts.

Luca Toni had 14 goals and 6 assists in 24 league starts.

I like this now my friend can shut up leo messi is better than cristiano, I do not care if they are number 99 and 100 just as long as messi is on top! Barca rocks!!!

Any ranking that contains Luca Toni in the top 10 must be a joke.
And anyone that supports such is a market-square jester.
Any rankingthat tells me that over the last 12 months,Henry was the best player,must have been a typo
And anyone who actually believes that fallacy has a doughnut for a brain.
No matter what parameters were used for such ranking.
Like I said,I have a group of statisticians who rank Christian Chukwu as the best player ever.
But they don't force it down our throats.Neither should this meaningless,subjectively discriminating poll be shoved up our a$%es.
End of.

@krayola

How about you tell fifa to select their best player of the year category award using the castrol index . . . U know it aint gonna work. So why are u here shoving the castrol Idex down our throats . . . .?

what ever FIFA ranking say is the koko

yes henry is a good player i miss him at arsenal so much

.

The guys that did the rankings must have taken too much edegbe and pagipagi. Why not say Nani was the best footballer of all times. Henry did zilch last season. The main men in barca were iniesta, xavi, eto'o and messi. Henry belongs to the MLS now.

The only reason u guys have given is that you don't agree with it. I'm sorry but that just doesn't cut it. Disagreeing with something does not make it wrong.  So if all u are going to keep saying is the childish nonsense that u have been dropping since, then I think it's fair to say that it's just bad belle.

Besides Sauron, no one has made any attempt to make any sense. I'm so disappointed 

Which ranking/awards do u agree with and why? Why are their methods more credible than this one. I think we can start from there. But the arguments y'all are making make me feel like i'm babysitting a bunch of eight year olds. 

Kray,
It's not that simple.Keep in mind that footie was not meant to be a game judged by stats.
The stats themselves dont cut it.No details on what points were given for tackles,assists,goals or passes.And you want us to follow you in annointing a player who is at least three years past his prime as the best in the world.
At that,from the layman's point of view,Henry is not the most deserving of that title.
You should know that these rankings are subjective.You assumed this high-ground by the caption of the thread.Henry cannot be officially declared the best player in the world,certainly not over the last 12 months.And you know it.
Opta,Actim and the rest of them can decide to give the "title"to another player:does that make the said player the official best player?Hell to the naw.Even in Barcelona,he isn't by any means of anyone's imagination the best player;or are you going to choke me with that silly logic?
Give us all a break.You and debosky should stop fooling yourselves.For you to defend that Luca Toni of all people is in the top 10 is an attrocity.Don't join folks who have lost credibility on the Sports section to trumpet this facre all because 4 Barcelona players are in the top 10.
When there is a consensus of some sort between stat compilers,the n we'll start taking those polls serious.
Until then,you CANNOT force Henry up our a$%es.

Eastbay:

Kray,
It's not that simple.Keep in mind that footie was not meant to be a game judged by stats.
The stats themselves dont cut it.No details on what points were given for tackles,assists,goals or passes.And you want us to follow you in annointing a player who is at least three years past his prime as the best in the world.
At that,from the layman's point of view,Henry is not the most deserving of that title.
You should know that these rankings are subjective.You assumed this high-ground by the caption of the thread.Henry cannot be officially declared the best player in the world,certainly not over the last 12 months.And you know it.
Opta,Actim and the rest of them can decide to give the "title"to another player:does that make the said player the official best player?Hell to the naw.Even in Barcelona,he isn't by any means of anyone's imagination the best player;or are you going to choke me with that silly logic?
Give us all a break.You and debosky should stop fooling yourselves.For you to defend that Luca Toni of all people is in the top 10 is an attrocity.Don't join folks who have lost credibility on the Sports section to trumpet this facre all because 4 Barcelona players are in the top 10.
When there is a consensus of some sort between stat compilers,the n we'll start taking those polls serious.
Until then,you CANNOT force Henry up our a$%es.

Eastbay. . I'm not saying you have to agree. I'm saying lets have a real debate.

I remember once i brought some rankings to make a case than La liga was better than EPL, and after  few hours of going at it, Sauron was able to convince me, using my own stats that i brought, that I was wrong. That is the kind of debate I want to have. When people actually make arguments that u can take seriously, and even alter your opinion. Not just all these "funny" comments that get boring and plain silly after the first half hour.

There are things we miss. . sometimes Messi can make 4 fantastic runs that end up at nothing, while Henry might just make 2 simple passes that are more useful to the team. . . there are always different ways to analyse football. . .so dismissing something because it used different criteria to make judgments just seems kinda too easy to me. At least let's try and see where they are coming from. Quite a few people whose opinions i respect seem to endorse the rankings, wenger being one, Hitzfeld, Koeman. . . It can't all be bullshit.

I mean, I dont understand how Rooney and Berbatov can be ahead of Ibra who was highest goal scorer in Italy, but that isn't good enough reason to dismiss it. . . this is based on stats, and like you said there are some things that we don't know about how they did the calculations. But IMO people saying Henry does not belong up there just don't watch Barca. . . all they are saying is that he is old.  .no one has made ane pitch/game related comment about how Henry does not deserve it. People that watch Barca games know how important he was for us. Even yesterday Pep said Pedro can never replace Henry because the guy is simply too valuable to the team.

Another example is Keita. I have said several times that i can't stand the guy. I thought he just wasn't barca calibre, but Pep seems to like a lot and i never understood why. Keita is above Xavi and Iniesta in these rankings, and that explains why Pep may love him so much. I'm starting to appreciate him more based onhis performances this season.  Pep may be noticing stuff the average joe watching on TV does not. What we see depends on our vantage point, so dismissing something because it sees things totally different is kinda silly IMO. Lets at least try to dig a lil deeper before just dismissing it.

Kray,
I still maintain my stand that football was not created for stats and vice versa.
The mere fact that we don't know how many marks  are assigned to what category makes it dodgy to say the least.
How often does Henry track back?Enough to earn decent points for marking?Nope.
Don't say we don't watch Barcelona.I do.Every weekend.And for the past 12 months,Henry is not,in my view,and in not a few others as well,Barca's best player.
He didn't score more than Etoó or Messi.He didn't have more assists than Xavi.He isn't known,past of present to tackle and his pace is deserting him slowly.
how can he be the best in that team?Not to talk of the world?
Henry is relying on experience that Pedro might probably never acquire.And it comes with age.
As for Keita,is it a coincidence that Barca started becoming more solid since he joined the team?The guy is effective.He might not be flashy like the average Barca bundle-of-skill player,but he gets the job done.He adds steel to your midfield that Xavi and iniesta will never do.

My quarrel with this post is that you made it official.Damn,Christian Chukwu heads a poll taken by a panel of experts we don't know,just like the Castrol guys.If Castrol anointed Henry the best,fine by them,though Luca Toni in the top rubbishes whatever credibility that poll might have.In Bayern,Klose is the hitman,Klose is more rounded than Toni.Please,for goodness sakes,isn't that a sore spot?It's indefensible to have Toni,with or without any stats,in the top 10 of that ranking.
And Maicon,who is several streets ahead of your Alves in every area is ranked only 140.
Come on dude.There are enough loopholes in this list already.

What is the argument really? That the stats are wrong or that the conclusion is wrong?

I cant believe we have this many intellectually deficient people here.

That Luca Toni does not deserve to be in the top ten. That seems to be the main objection to the stats.

I don't know much about him cause I don't watch bayern, so maybe you can tell us if he is really that shit.

FIFA World Player 2009 shortlist:

Michael Ballack (Germany), Gianluigi Buffon (Italy), Iker Casillas (Spain), Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugal), Diego (Brazil), Didier Drogba (Ivory Coast), Michael Essien (Ghana), Samuel Eto'o (Cameroon), Steven Gerrard (England), Thierry Henry (France), Zlatan Ibrahimovic (Sweden), Andres Iniesta (Spain), Kaka (Brazil), Frank Lampard (England), Luis Fabiano (Brazil), Lionel Messi (Argentina), Carles Puyol (Spain), Franck Ribery (France), Wayne Rooney (England), John Terry (England), Fernando Torres (Spain), David Villa (Spain), Xavi (Spain).

Kray, even though we both support barca, I'll hav to disagree wit some of your points

ok, agreed that Henry tops this list based on THEIR criteria, there isn't still any bit of proof that in this way, we'll certainly determine the best player in the world. There are a lot of ratings in this world. That it's FIFA endorsed will even make it less respected by some people(myself included).

I could make a lot of argument against it. Henry is far ahead of xavi and inesta yet there was no way he could have achieved those stats without them. You say xavi and inista don't track back enough and don't do some other stuffs well enough. Well, neccessarily tracking back isnt their function in the barca system for most of our games. If anything, it takes away their ability to be more intuitive the final third as they'll be mentally tired. So I doubt if the rating that is supposed to determine the best player in the world will also discourage them from performing their team functions.

I also find it hard to understand maicon's rating. Football is so complicated now that some defenders are no more defnders even if they play defensive positions and likewise for some attackers. It's so varied that somebody can not just wake up and decide to that the best player in the world must track back, score, tackle n so.

Reading ur some of your comments again, seems u are dying to make an argument for henry

I concur with most of eastbay's points

lai-lai:

Kray, even though we both support barca, I'll hav to disagree wit some of your points

ok, agreed that Henry tops this list based on THEIR criteria, there isn't still any bit of proof that in this way, we'll certainly determine the best player in the world. There are a lot of ratings in this world. That it's FIFA endorsed will even make it less respected by some people(myself included).

I could make a lot of argument against it. Henry is far ahead of xavi and inesta yet there was no way he could have achieved those stats without them. You say xavi and inista don't track back enough and don't do some other stuffs well enough. Well, neccessarily tracking back isnt their function in the barca system for most of our games. If anything, it takes away their ability to be more intuitive the final third as they'll be mentally tired. So I doubt if the rating that is supposed to determine the best player in the world will also discourage them from performing their team functions.

I also find it hard to understand maicon's rating. Football is so complicated now that some defenders are no more defnders even if they play defensive positions and likewise for some attackers. It's so varied that somebody can not just wake up and decide to that the best player in the world must track back, score, tackle n so.

The list does not factor what position you play in. It just measures what you do to contribute to your team's performance while you are on the pitch. It is not a measure of talent or effort, it is a measure of efficiency. If you were to break down the rankings by position, the huge gaps wouldn't be so huge. You have to remember that all players in the 5 major leagues are being weighted. A lot of players in small and middle sized teams that contribute a lot to their teams, but we never hear about are also on the list.

I have asked over and over again, what rankings or awards do you agree with, and why? And why are their methods any more credible than this one? At least we can start from there. . .