And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence,
and the violent take it by force." —Matthew 11:12
What are your thoughts on this verse people of God?

LadyAnn:
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence,
and the violent take it by force." - Matthew 11:12

What are your thoughts on this verse people of God?

And Jesus said, “Who touched me?”
And when everyone denied,
Peter and those with him said to him,
''Our master, the crowds are pressing close to you, and they are pushing
and you say, 'Who touched me?' ''
- Luke 8:45

Wherever he went--in villages, cities, or the countryside--they brought the sick out to the marketplaces.
They begged him to let the sick touch at least the fringe of his robe, and all who touched him were healed
- Mark 6:56

Crowds of people were coming to be baptized by John.
He would say to them,
"You poisonous snakes! Who showed you how to flee from God's coming anger?
- Luke 3:7

But when John saw many Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing,
he told them,
"You children of serpents! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?
- Matthew 3:7

In order to understand Matthew 11:12 a little bit more, one needs to be familiar with the crowd in Jesus or John the Baptist times, and what occurs in midst of the throng

As people try to achieve the below, Matthew 11:12 for better comprehesion edited version, pushing and pulling (i.e. force), due to overcrowding, always occurred in John the Baptist gathering and this up to the time of Jesus' gathering too

And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth tolerated violence,
and the violent strong and assertive take it
by force with a push or pull upon applicable kingdom of heaven person or object e.g. John the Baptist, Jesus etcetera,
in order, to be baptised in the Jordan River by John the Baptist,
to receive healing from Jesus,
to receive salvation, to hear the gospel preached by Jesus."
- Matthew 11:12 for better comprehesion edited version

Now, five examples of the ''violent'' ''who took'' ''it'' by ''force'' are:
1) The woman with the issue of blood, who pushed through the crowd, to touched the hem of Jesus' garment in order to receive healing
2) Zacchaeus, the tax collector and a short man, who ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree, to be above the crowd, in order to see Jesus who was passing through Jericho on His way to Jerusalem
3) The four men, who could not get their paralyzed friend to Jesus who was in house because of the crowd, so devised the plan to dig a hole in the roof and lower down their paralyzed friend in mat tied and held with four ropes
4) The Canaanite woman who came to Jesus to cure her daughter severely oppressed by a demon, but who then forcibly begs, when told she is not in the ''priority queue''
5) Peter openly wanting to refuse to obeying gravity by asking Jesus to command him to come walking on the water to Jesus.

From the above inexhaustible examples, the kingdom of Heaven is not for the faint hearted
(i.e. anyone legally looking for something or trying to get something permitted in the kingdom of Heaven, has to be forthright, strong & assertive)

Matthew 11:12 along with those few examples above implies that,
there is no room for hesitancy, doubt, timidity, fear or shyness etcetera the kingdom of Heaven,
because in terms of obtaining salvation, receiving healing, wanting to know God or wanting to see Jesus etcetera, the kingdom of Heaven doesnt suffer, entertain or tolerate these type of hesitancy, doubt, timidity, fear or shyness behaviours

Need to be forthright, strong & assertive, if not, cant pull down stronghold, wont be able to push through traditions of men, go past legalisms or other etcetera barriers in way of achieving objectives or goals

MuttleyLaff:
And Jesus said, “Who touched me?”
And when everyone denied,
Peter and those with him said to him,
''Our master, the crowds are pressing close to you, and they are pushing
and you say, 'Who touched me?' ''
- Luke 8:45

Wherever he went--in villages, cities, or the countryside--they brought the sick out to the marketplaces.
They begged him to let the sick touch at least the fringe of his robe, and all who touched him were healed
- Mark 6:56

Crowds of people were coming to be baptized by John.
He would say to them,
"You poisonous snakes! Who showed you how to flee from God's coming anger?
- Luke 3:7

But when John saw many Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing,
he told them,
"You children of serpents! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?
- Matthew 3:7

In order to understand Matthew 11:12 a little bit more, one needs to be familiar with the crowd in Jesus or John the Baptist times, and what occurs in midst of the throng

As people try to achieve the below, Matthew 11:12 for better comprehesion edited version, pushing and pulling (i.e. force), due to overcrowding, always occurred in John the Baptist gathering and this up to the time of Jesus' gathering too

And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth tolerated violence,
and the violent strong and assertive take it
by force with a push or pull upon applicable kingdom of heaven person or object e.g. John the Baptist, Jesus etcetera,
in order, to be baptised in the Jordan River by John the Baptist,
to receive healing from Jesus,
to receive salvation, to hear the gospel preached by Jesus."
- Matthew 11:12 for better comprehesion edited version

Now, five examples of the ''violet'' ''who took'' ''it'' by ''force'' are:
1) The woman with the issue of blood, who pushed through the crowd, to touched the hem of Jesus' garment in order to receive healing
2) Zacchaeus, the tax collector and a short man, who ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree, to be above the crowd, in order to see Jesus who was passing through Jericho on His way to Jerusalem
3) The four men, who could not get their paralyzed friend to Jesus who was in house because of the crowd, so devised the plan to dig a hole in the roof and lower down their paralyzed friend in mat tied and held with four ropes
4) The Canaanite woman who came to Jesus to cure her daughter severely oppressed by a demon, but who then forcibly begs, when told she is not in the ''priority queue''
5) Peter openly wanting to refuse to obeying gravity by asking Jesus to command him to come walking on the water to Jesus.

From the above inexhaustible examples, the kingdom of Heaven is not for the faint hearted
(i.e. anyone legally looking for something or trying to get something permitted in the kingdom of Heaven, has to be forthright, strong & assertive)

Matthew 11:12 along with those few examples above implies that,
there is no room for hesitancy, doubt, timidity, fear or shyness etcetera the kingdom of Heaven,
because in terms of obtaining salvation, receiving healing, wanting to know God or wanting to see Jesus etcetera, the kingdom of Heaven doesnt suffer, entertain or tolerate these type of hesitancy, doubt, timidity, fear or shyness behaviours

Need to be forthright, strong & assertive, if not, cant pull down stronghold, wont be able to push through traditions of men, go past legalisms or other etcetera barriers in way of achieving objectives or goals

Wow how awesome. Are you a pastor?

LadyAnn:
Wow how awesome. Are you a pastor?

And I will give you shepherds according to my heart, and they shall feed you with knowledge and understanding
- Jeremiah 3:15

Jeremiah 3:15 is about the pastor verb and not the pastor noun
(i.e. more of the action you do and not what you are)

MuttleyLaff:
And I will give you shepherds according to my heart, and they shall feed you with knowledge and understanding
- Jeremiah 3:15

Jeremiah 3:15 is about the pastor verb and not the pastor noun
(i.e. more of the action you do and not what you are)

You most certainly are a sustainer of the word of God to go ye out into the world and preach the gospel of Christ. And teach the gospel of Christ. Bless you for your clear interpretation of one of the most misinterpreted verse in the bible

LadyAnn:
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence,
and the violent take it by force." —Matthew 11:12
What are your thoughts on this verse people of God?

To fully comprehend Mat. 11:12 you need to understand the underlying background in Jewish beliefs as well as context. The background is that early Jews had long held beliefs that the kingdom of God could be “hastened” or brought about by “force”,the context is of an "ode to John the Baptist" by Jesus. Why? John the Baptist quite evidently believed that his people, the Jews had descended into un-godliness, he also believed that a “baptism of repentance was necessary for Israel's salvation in the imminent Last Judgment”. He was convinced that he by his own preaching was to bring about the outburst of the longed-for Messianic Fountain, which would heal the brackish waters of the Jordan and remove sin and uncleanliness from the house of David. (Ezekiel 36, 25-28)

Evidently Jesus of Nazareth was intimately familiar with the core doctrines of John the Baptists' apocalypticysm. John believed he was precipitating the Kingdom of God and instigating it by force of his deeds and this is what Jesus is referring to specifically.

Sarassin:


To fully comprehend Mat. 11:12 you need to understand the underlying background in Jewish beliefs as well as context. The background is that early Jews had long held beliefs that the kingdom of God could be “hastened” or brought about by “force”,the context is of an "ode to John the Baptist" by Jesus. Why? John the Baptist quite evidently believed that his people, the Jews had descended into un-godliness, he also believed that a “baptism of repentance was necessary for Israel's salvation in the imminent Last Judgment”. He was convinced that he by his own preaching was to bring about the outburst of the longed-for Messianic Fountain, which would heal the brackish waters of the Jordan and remove sin and uncleanliness from the house of David. (Ezekiel 36, 25-28)

Evidently Jesus of Nazareth was intimately familiar with the core doctrines of John the Baptists' apocalypticysm. John believed he was precipitating the Kingdom of God and instigating it by force of his deeds and this is what Jesus is referring to specifically.

Thought this take was interesting. He mentions ISIS and fundamental Islamic groups


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEvE-ubzEqg

LadyAnn:



Thought this take was interesting. He mentions ISIS and fundamental Islamic groups


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEvE-ubzEqg

Interesting but I think he's far off the mark.

LadyAnn:


You most certainly are a sustainer of the word of God to go ye out into the world and preach the gospel of Christ. And teach the gospel of Christ. Bless you for your clear interpretation of one of the most misinterpreted verse in the bible

Sarassin:
To fully comprehend Mat. 11:12 you need to understand the underlying background in Jewish beliefs as well as context. The background is that early Jews had long held beliefs that the kingdom of God could be “hastened” or brought about by “force”, the context is of an "ode to John the Baptist" by Jesus.

Why? John the Baptist quite evidently believed that his people, the Jews had descended into un-godliness, he also believed that a “baptism of repentance was necessary for Israel's salvation in the imminent Last Judgment”. He was convinced that he by his own preaching was to bring about the outburst of the longed-for Messianic Fountain, which would heal the brackish waters of the Jordan and remove sin and uncleanliness from the house of David. (Ezekiel 36, 25-28)

Evidently Jesus of Nazareth was intimately familiar with the core doctrines of John the Baptists' apocalypticysm. John believed he was precipitating the Kingdom of God and instigating it by force of his deeds and this is what Jesus is referring to specifically

We live in a believers world that is misguided and fraught with misinformed and off tangent interpretations

It is weird that when most of us see the word ''suffereth'' we immediately misconstrue it as only to be associated with ''subjection to something bad'' or ''subjection to an unpleasant experience''

This notion is well far from the truth because ''suffereth'' or ''suffer'' actually, is a very old KJV way or old-fashioned way of saying ''tolerate'', ''permit'', ''allow, ''let''

But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven
- Matthew 19:14 KJV

But Jesus said, Allow little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven
- Matthew 19:14 KJV 2000

Jesus said, "Don't stop children from coming to me! Children like these are part of the kingdom of God"
- Matthew 19:14 GOD'S WORD® Translation

But Jesus said, "Let the children come to me. Don't stop them! For the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those who are like these children"
- Matthew 19:14 NLT

Matthew 19:14 above provides a good perspective into what ''suffereth'' or ''suffer'' also alternatively means

"The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it
- Luke 16:16 NIV

"Until John the Baptist, the law of Moses and the messages of the prophets were your guides. But now the Good News of the Kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is eager to get in
- Luke 16:16 NLT

“The Law and The Prophets were until Yohannan; from then, the Kingdom of God is announced, and everyone is pushing to enter it.”
- Luke 16:16 Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Now back to the original matter, if the bible repeatedly states that ''Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses'' then the above testimony of Luke 16:16, the other witness bible verse, which corrobates the truth that Matthew 11:12 in effect means ''you gat to do, what you gat to do, to enjoy or gain access to the benefits of the Kingdom of Heaven''.

Pull, push, press in, climb up a tree, drop down in through a roof hole, etcetera, whatever it will take to get in, do.

Since small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, we need to drop all the affliction excess baggages to easily go through the gate, otherwise have no option than to squeeze, push or force way in

LadyAnn:
Thought this take was interesting. He mentions ISIS and fundamental Islamic groups

h t tps://youtu.be/VEvE-ubzEqg

Sarassin:
Interesting but I think he's far off the mark.

I second that he is miles off the mark too
He would have correctly explained it, if he or anyone else for that matter, was 2 Timothy 2:15 rightly dividing the word of truth with an Occam's razor.

MuttleyLaff:


I second that he is miles off the mark too
He would have correctly explained it, if he or anyone else for that matter, was 2 Timothy 2:15 rightly dividing the word of truth with an Occam's razor.

People of God, you'd be shocked at how the scriptures are being misinterpreted by evangelists and teachers of the word. This particular passage is also used by the body of Christ in the wrong context to do harm unto others... May Jehovah help us in our disernment of his word.

MuttleyLaff:


We live in a believers world that is misguided and fraught with misinformed and off tangent interpretations..........

I don't quite agree with your interpretation, it is not exact. You are giving a modern interpretive analysis to a verse with a classical meaning. Mat11:12 presupposes the Jewish conviction that men could accelerate the coming of the Messianic times and even force it down immediately by certain actions, either of obedience or of disobedience to the commandments of God. An example can be found in Shab. 118b which states “the Messiah and the final redemption would come at once, if all Israel were to observe “two successive Sabbaths, nay one single Sabbath rightly as it ought to be kept”.

Such apparent violation of the Divine plans of Providence was not always considered a sin. We can observe the sayings in the Talmud, that ” God loves to be conquered by a sinner through repentance”.

The technical term used was "pressing against the Messianic Time," the equivalency of which is translated into the Evangelic expression "storm the kingdom" or "take it by force". This conviction was not without its own controversy. Contemporary Rabbi scholars of the day record that four generations had already perished, because they tried to invade the "Kingdom".

Of particular mention is the generation of Bar-Kokhba, the Pseudo-Messiah.

MuttleyLaff:


We live in a believers world that is misguided and fraught with misinformed and off tangent interpretations

It is weird that when most of us see the word ''suffereth'' we immediately misconstrue it as only to be associated with ''subjection to something bad'' or ''subjection to an unpleasant experience''

This notion is well far from the truth because ''suffereth'' or ''suffer'' actually, is a very old KJV way or old-fashioned way of saying ''tolerate'', ''permit'', ''allow, ''let''

But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven
- Matthew 19:14 KJV

But Jesus said, Allow little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven
- Matthew 19:14 KJV 2000

Jesus said, "Don't stop children from coming to me! Children like these are part of the kingdom of God"
- Matthew 19:14 GOD'S WORD® Translation

But Jesus said, "Let the children come to me. Don't stop them! For the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those who are like these children"
- Matthew 19:14 NLT

Matthew 19:14 above provides a good perspective into what ''suffereth'' or ''suffer'' also alternatively means

"The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it
- Luke 16:16 NIV

"Until John the Baptist, the law of Moses and the messages of the prophets were your guides. But now the Good News of the Kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is eager to get in
- Luke 16:16 NLT

“The Law and The Prophets were until Yohannan; from then, the Kingdom of God is announced, and everyone is pushing to enter it.”
- Luke 16:16 Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Now back to the original matter, if the bible repeatedly states that ''Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses'' then the above testimony of Luke 16:16, the other witness bible verse, which corrobates the truth that Matthew 19:14 in effect means ''you gat to do, what you gat to do, to enjoy or gain access to the benefits of the Kingdom of Heaven''.

Pull, push, press in, climb up a tree, drop down in through a roof hole, etcetera, whatever it will take to get in, do.

Since small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, we need to drop all the affliction excess baggages to easily go through the gate, otherwise have no option than to squeeze, push or force way in

The way the KJV translated the verse breeds confusion. It is clearer this way:

12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it

JMAN05:


The way the KJV translated the verse breeds confusion. It is clearer this way:

12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it

There’s no confusion if you leave the verse as it were and read it in its proper context. Jesus, attributes an over-zealousness to the Baptist and the violent ones. Yet he thinks that God does not disapprove at all of such men, who are " eaten up by the zeal for his house," and that indeed the Baptist and his followers' fervent repentance had somehow brought nearer the Kingdom. Therefore, because he prepares the Lord's way, instead of merely foretelling it, he is the greatest among mortals.

JMAN05:


The way the KJV translated the verse breeds confusion. It is clearer this way:

12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it

Permission to share on my watsapp debate group?

LadyAnn:
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence,
and the violent take it by force." —Matthew 11:12
What are your thoughts on this verse people of God?

It meant right from the day of John the Baptist, satan changed strategy. The allocation (budget) for 'flesh walk' increased and it will take those who are 'violent' (mighty and disobedient to the course of this world) to take on the onslaught (which is the violence the kingdom suffers). The violence the Kingdom suffers is the 'change of strategy' to stop men from walking in the spirit and thereby gaining entrance into the Kingdom. The appearance of John was an insignia that Lake is nearer for these wicked spirits; reason Jesus said the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church because she is meant to receive and enter this Kingdom but the continuous onslaught (violence) from the host of wickedness to stop men from entering the kingdom persists since the day of John.

LadyAnn:



Permission to share on my watsapp debate group?

Debate is often done with the desire to win. This defeats sincere digging for truth. I appreciate a discussion from a sincere person with open mind so as to ascertain what God has for us. This is a progressive method that pay.

JMAN05:


Debate is often done with the desire to win. This defeats sincere digging for truth. I appreciate a discussion from a sincere person with open mind so as to ascertain what God has for us. This is a progressive method that pay.

Perhaps I used the wrong word in this case. We are just reasoning together in the search of truth. It's a bible group. No desire to win my dear. It's ok.

LadyAnn:


Perhaps I used the wrong word in this case. We are just reasoning together in the search of truth. It's a bible group. No desire to win my dear. It's ok.

So you need my number to add me? How can I get it across, I won't share that here.

JMAN05:


So you need my number to add me? How can I get it across, I won't share that here.

No I do not Need your number Sir/Madame. Absolutely Not. I'm confused here. I nearly asked permission to quote your interpretation. Not you. You've got it completely wrong dear and I somewhat feel offended that you will even misconstrue my words/intention. I only, politely asked permission to use your (quote) which I found to be a clear and concise interpretation. Wow!

(Philippians 2:1-11 ESV / 14 ) Brethren

So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, ...

LadyAnn:
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence,
and the violent take it by force." —Matthew 11:12
What are your thoughts on this verse people of God?

there is much to that verse but it talks more of Faith in God...john the baptist was man like us but he lives in the wilderness and he did not eat food we human beings eat because people failed to believed him but he believed in the God that called him

Elijah was a man like us but he never die as human beings does, because of his radical faith

violet there to means mean how much our faith relied on God ..It takes faith to stand out and live to enter the kingdom of God.

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.”

How could the kingdom of God, which is spiritual, suffer violence, presumably at the hands of physical people? The representatives of the kingdom often suffered violence from those who hated their message. John the Baptist was beheaded, and Christ would later be crucified. Most of the prophets were tortured or killed, or both. History records that virtually all the apostles, except John, died in ways that involved torture and violence.

Notice the last phrase. There are two correct meanings: (1) Christ, as a representative of the kingdom, was taken by force, and (2) those who seek to enter the kingdom must struggle—battle—to do so. (The reader should take the time to examine the following passages: Ephesians 6:12; Luke 16:16 latter; Philippians 2:12-13; 3:14; II Corinthians 10:3-5; Ecclesiastes 9:10; Matthew 24:13; James 4:7-8; I Peter 5:9; I Corinthians 9:24-27; I Timothy 6:12—among others.) Notice the powerful action verbs—wrestle, fight, war, endure, press, pull down, run, resist—found in these verses.


CC:
LadyAnn

N

Splinz:
“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.”

How could the kingdom of God, which is spiritual, suffer violence, presumably at the hands of physical people? The representatives of the kingdom often suffered violence from those who hated their message. John the Baptist was beheaded, and Christ would later be crucified. Most of the prophets were tortured or killed, or both. History records that virtually all the apostles, except John, died in ways that involved torture and violence.

Notice the last phrase. There are two correct meanings: (1) Christ, as a representative of the kingdom, was taken by force, and (2) those who seek to enter the kingdom must struggle—battle—to do so. (The reader should take the time to examine the following passages: Ephesians 6:12; Luke 16:16 latter; Philippians 2:12-13; 3:14; II Corinthians 10:3-5; Ecclesiastes 9:10; Matthew 24:13; James 4:7-8; I Peter 5:9; I Corinthians 9:24-27; I Timothy 6:12—among others.) Notice the powerful action verbs—wrestle, fight, war, endure, press, pull down, run, resist—found in these verses.


CC:
LadyAnn

Does that then mean that we.(As the body of Christ must also struggle to enter? That is scary in the sense that, the irks has evolved so much that it is easier now to spread the good news of Christ in the comfort of your own house via social media and the Internet. How then do we suffer for our faith?

Re: those who seek to enter the kingdom must struggle—battle—to do so


God help my UN-zealousness.

LadyAnn:
N

Does that then mean that we.(As the body of Christ must also struggle to enter? That is scary in the sense that, the irks has evolved so much that it is easier now to spread the good news of Christ in the comfort of your own house via social media and the Internet. How then do we suffer for our faith?

Absolutely yes. The bible mean what it says and says what it mean. A Christian walk is not an easy one at all, contrary to what sweet-talkers may want you to believe. Note that it was on this premise that the scripture says, "...and there are few who find it" (Matthew 7:14). Understand it. Only few are actually striving to enter the Kingdom of God!

Consider how apostle Paul describes a Christian walk: "Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No soldier on service gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to satisfy the one who enlisted him. An athlete is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules. It is the hard-working farmer who ought to have the first share of the crops" (2 Timothy 2:3-6).

Notice bold words. These three jobs requires fight—struggle—war to do them. Now, understand the nature of this fight: "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms" (Ephesians 6:12). Know that every physical manifestation is as a result of spiritual manipulation, hence, you only win the war when you've conquered spiritually.

Now let me shock you. If you've not suffered and still suffering for the faith of Christianity, then you can as well re-examine what faith you're practicing.

Splinz:


Absolutely yes. The bible mean what it says and says what it mean. A Christian walk is not an easy one at all, contrary to what sweet-talkers may want you to believe. Note that it was on this premise that the scripture says, "...and there are few who find it" (Matthew 7:14). Understand it. Only few are actually striving to enter the Kingdom of God!

Consider how apostle Paul describes a Christian walk: "Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No soldier on service gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to satisfy the one who enlisted him. An athlete is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules. It is the hard-working farmer who ought to have the first share of the crops" (2 Timothy 2:3-6).

Notice bold words. These three jobs requires fight—struggle—war to do them. Now, understand the nature of this fight: "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms" (Ephesians 6:12). Know that every physical manifestation is as a result of spiritual manipulation, hence, you only win the war when you've conquered spiritually.

Now let me shock you. If you've not suffered and still suffering for the faith of Christianity, then you can as well re-examine what faith you're practicing.

I'm not suffering for my faith. I don't even have the grace to go into the streets and Evangelise for fear of being laughed at. I guess I'm not the good Christian I thought, perhaps hoped I was. It's not late

LadyAnn:


No I do not Need your number Sir/Madame. Absolutely Not. I'm confused here. I nearly asked permission to quote your interpretation. Not you. You've got it completely wrong dear and I somewhat feel offended that you will even misconstrue my words/intention. I only, politely asked permission to use your (quote) which I found to be a clear and concise interpretation. Wow!

Ok

MuttleyLaff:
And Jesus said, “Who touched me?”
And when everyone denied,
Peter and those with him said to him,
''Our master, the crowds are pressing close to you, and they are pushing
and you say, 'Who touched me?' ''
- Luke 8:45

Wherever he went--in villages, cities, or the countryside--they brought the sick out to the marketplaces.
They begged him to let the sick touch at least the fringe of his robe, and all who touched him were healed
- Mark 6:56

Crowds of people were coming to be baptized by John.
He would say to them,
"You poisonous snakes! Who showed you how to flee from God's coming anger?
- Luke 3:7

But when John saw many Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing,
he told them,
"You children of serpents! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?
- Matthew 3:7

In order to understand Matthew 11:12 a little bit more, one needs to be familiar with the crowd in Jesus or John the Baptist times, and what occurs in midst of the throng

As people try to achieve the below, Matthew 11:12 for better comprehesion edited version, pushing and pulling (i.e. force), due to overcrowding, always occurred in John the Baptist gathering and this up to the time of Jesus' gathering too

And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth tolerated violence,
and the violent strong and assertive take it
by force with a push or pull upon applicable kingdom of heaven person or object e.g. John the Baptist, Jesus etcetera,
in order, to be baptised in the Jordan River by John the Baptist,
to receive healing from Jesus,
to receive salvation, to hear the gospel preached by Jesus."
- Matthew 11:12 for better comprehesion edited version

Now, five examples of the ''violent'' ''who took'' ''it'' by ''force'' are:
1) The woman with the issue of blood, who pushed through the crowd, to touched the hem of Jesus' garment in order to receive healing
2) Zacchaeus, the tax collector and a short man, who ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree, to be above the crowd, in order to see Jesus who was passing through Jericho on His way to Jerusalem
3) The four men, who could not get their paralyzed friend to Jesus who was in house because of the crowd, so devised the plan to dig a hole in the roof and lower down their paralyzed friend in mat tied and held with four ropes
4) The Canaanite woman who came to Jesus to cure her daughter severely oppressed by a demon, but who then forcibly begs, when told she is not in the ''priority queue''
5) Peter openly wanting to refuse to obeying gravity by asking Jesus to command him to come walking on the water to Jesus.

From the above inexhaustible examples, the kingdom of Heaven is not for the faint hearted
(i.e. anyone legally looking for something or trying to get something permitted in the kingdom of Heaven, has to be forthright, strong & assertive)

Matthew 11:12 along with those few examples above implies that,
there is no room for hesitancy, doubt, timidity, fear or shyness etcetera the kingdom of Heaven,
because in terms of obtaining salvation, receiving healing, wanting to know God or wanting to see Jesus etcetera, the kingdom of Heaven doesnt suffer, entertain or tolerate these type of hesitancy, doubt, timidity, fear or shyness behaviours

Need to be forthright, strong & assertive, if not, cant pull down stronghold, wont be able to push through traditions of men, go past legalisms or other etcetera barriers in way of achieving objectives or goals

This is my first interpretation of that verse quoted by op but that's not true until I was led by the spirit of God. Before you understand that verse you have to understand the meaning of "kingdom of God","suffereth',"violence" and "violent" in that sentence. most christians interpreted this verse in that way which is not, because that verse is talking to the wicked people , now look at the verse from good news:mathew 11 vs 12; from the time john preached his message until this very day the kingdom of heaven has suffered VIOLENT attacks,and VIOLENT men try to seize it then check the verse mathew 23 vs 13 : but woe unto you , scribes,pharisees and hypocrites! For ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. That's the meaning of what jesus was trying to say in that verse of matthew 11 vs 12.



Killing of john baptist, killing of jesus , the apostles, burning of bible and many evil atrocities against children of God by men who don't others to make heaven by placing stumbling block to the people who are thirsty for the water of life.

jcross19:
This is my first interpretation of that verse quoted by op but that's not true until I was led by the spirit of God. Before you understand that verse you have to understand the meaning of "kingdom of God","suffereth',"violence" and "violent" in that sentence. most christians interpreted this verse in that way which is not, because that verse is talking to the wicked people , now look at the verse from good news:mathew 11 vs 12; from the time john preached his message until this very day the kingdom of heaven has suffered VIOLENT attacks,and VIOLENT men try to seize it then check the verse mathew 23 vs 13 : but woe unto you , scribes,pharisees and hypocrites! For ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. That's the meaning of what jesus was trying to say in that verse of matthew 11 vs 12.

Killing of john baptist, killing of jesus , the apostles, burning of bible and many evil atrocities against children of God by men who don't others to make heaven by placing stumbling block to the people who are thirsty for the water of life.

Wow! Really. What an interesting take. What about the post on us having to strive and suffer for our salvation/entrance into heaven?
This is great stuff. The word of God is indeed living and sharper than any two-edged sword.....

LadyAnn:


Wow! Really. What an interesting take. What about the post on us having to strive and suffer for our salvation/entrance into heaven?
This is great stuff. The word of God is indeed living and sharper than any two-edged sword.....

am still searching for the word violent to match up the phrase of " be wise like serpent and harmless like dove", or having strong faith can be compare to that violent of matthew 11 vs 12. Is not possible no matter how we can interpret it that qualities mentioned in that verse of op is not a quality of making heaven.

jcross19:
am still searching for the word violent to match up the phrase of " be wise like serpent and harmless like dove", or having strong faith can be compare to that violent of matthew 11 vs 12. Is not possible no matter how we can interpret it that qualities mentioned in that verse of op is not a quality of making heaven.

According to bible Hub, The kingdom of heaven suffereth violence.—The Greek verb may be either in the middle voice, “forces its way violently,” or passive, as in the English version, but there is little doubt that the latter is the right rendering. The words describe the eager rush of the crowds of Galilee and Judæa, first to the preaching of the Baptist, and then to that of Jesus. It was, as it were, a city attacked on all sides by those who were eager to take possession of it.