Why are you slowpoke applying physic to God, the simple arithematic is God the father + God the son + holy spirit = trinity, if truely 3 then how come 3 equals to one, does it make sense,

"Whosoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: (but) he that acknowledges the Son has the Father also" (1 John 2:23)

The verse above shows that Jesus was God in human form.

A simple analogy of how Jesus was God in human form:

If I give you a small slice of cheese from a large block (the taste being constant throughout the whole block of cheese), and you spit out the cheese saying you hate the taste, then you reject the whole block. Jesus was God manifest in human form. If the Jews, Muslims, pagans and atheists rejected Him, they rejected the Father also. He who is of God hears God's Words. QED

Analytical:


Jesus the man was in pains (physical and spiritual) on the cross and exclaimed when the Father, for once, [b]separated [/b]from him because of the weight of sin he was carrying.  Your sin and mine, the entire human race'.  The Father cannot behold sin.

You know what?  That is not the end of the story.  He died and rose up and is still alive.  That is the real story!

listen to yourself. Do u think you made any sense at all. At that point when jesus (the man) was crying and bearing all your sins where was jesus (the god)? Was he in heaven with his father watching the drama his human body was acting?
Brother, you can do better than this. You dont have to debase your intelligence to such senslessness just because you want to believe

[flash=500,400]http://media.chick.com/tract_7.swf[/flash]

Analytical:

Abuzola, you are such an interesting fellow.  Will you read what I am about posting?  Read John 8 vs 12-58 and John 10 vs 22-39.  Please do read that and be corrected.  However, check the excerpts here:

John 8:
58 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.


John 10:
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

30 I and the Father are one.”

31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him,

32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’?

35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—

36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does.

38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

Nezan/ Analytical/ Modupe -

No insult intended, but it seems to me that you guys are not being deep or exhaustive enough in your reading of Bible verses.

Jesus himself explained the term "I and my Father are one" severally. He stated unequivocally that he and his father were one in the same way as we should be one with him. Now are you Jesus? No. But you are one with him in spirit as a christian, yes?

Thus the oneness was a oneness of accord, and not an ontological or existential oneness as an entity.

This verse elucidates and proves the point:

John 17:20-23: “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”

Its abundantly clear that its a spiritual and not ontological or existential oneness. There. That's Bible proof.

@deepsight.are u re jecting the john chapter 8 vrs 12-58.no matter hw u debate,JESUS IS Still the way to God.

ccollins: i do not doubt that his teachings of love are the way to God.

I doubt that he is God.

Two different things.

If jesus is God then who resurrected him when died ? Satan ?

Very good question.

@ Modupe01/Analytical/Nezan

You proponents of the Redeeming Blood theory, have you ever stopped to ask yourselves why God would NEED the blood for whatever purpose? Have you ever stopped to ponder that tiresome phrase - 'there is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood', instead of rattling it off like a programmed robot?

Are you implying that an omnipotent being who could easily have created any kind of blood of whatever composition to suit any kind of purpose, first has to come to earth, subject us to a gory sight of a violent death just so he can collect the blood of an innocent?

It is greatly disheartening to see that 'christians', who are supposed to be the direct recipient of the sublime message of love and justice brought by Jesus, from God The Father; are the ones who have managed to drag down and make a mess of Jesus' Work! They have managed to conjure an image of a god whose attribute is below that of man. Come to think of it, I can't immediately think of any beast that would do what 'christians' ascribe to God Himself!

Vortex™:


You proponents of the Redeeming Blood theory, have you ever stopped to ask yourselves why God would NEED the blood for whatever purpose? Have you ever stopped to ponder that tiresome phrase - 'there is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood', instead of rattling it off like a programmed robot?

Are you implying that an omnipotent being who could easily have created any kind of blood of whatever composition to suit any kind of purpose, first has to come to earth, subject us to a gory sight of a violent death just so he can collect the blood of an innocent?

It is greatly disheartening to see that 'christians', who are supposed to be the direct recipient of the sublime message of love and justice brought by Jesus, from God The Father; are the ones who have managed to drag down and make a mess of Jesus' Work! They have managed to conjure an image of a god whose attribute is below that of man. Come to think of it, I can't immediately think of any beast that would do what 'christians' ascribe to God Himself!

FUKN BRILLIANT!

Vortex™:

@ Modupe01/Analytical/Nezan

You proponents of the Redeeming Blood theory, have you ever stopped to ask yourselves why God would NEED the blood for whatever purpose?  Have you ever stopped to ponder that tiresome phrase - 'there is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood', instead of rattling it off like a programmed robot?

Are you implying that an omnipotent being who could easily have created any kind of blood of whatever composition to suit any kind of purpose, first has to come to earth, subject us to a gory sight of a violent death just so he can collect the blood of an innocent?

It is greatly disheartening to see that 'christians', who are supposed to be the direct recipient of the sublime message of love and justice brought by Jesus, from God The Father; are the ones who have managed to drag down and make a mess of Jesus' Work! They have managed to conjure an image of a god whose attribute is below that of man. Come to think of it, I can't immediately think of any beast that would do what 'christians' ascribe to God Himself!

The only problem here is that you purport to know what God should do.

Krayola:

FUKN BRILLIANT!

I'm sorry but i'm seriously straining to see what was "brilliant" here. Please show me.

davidylan:

I'm sorry but i'm seriously straining to see what was "brilliant" here. Please show me.

No.

Come to think of it, I personally have forgiven many a crime against my majesty perpetuated by various people in my life and I didn't require any blood to do so so I get the point. But the Paul clearly says that there is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood, so how do you explain that?

Krayola:

No.

I'm not surprised . . . beyond the usual distortion of the biblical concept of the cross and the noisy denunciation of anything that does not agree with our fleshly opinion of how God must act . . . i couldnt find anything intelligent myself.

even a beast will not murder his only begotten son in cold blood to fulfill an act he could simply have achieved with the click of a finger. Why all the gory drama. This god must be Shylock

Pastor AIO please remove the title 'pastor'

the_seeker:

even a beast will not murder his only begotten son in cold blood to fulfill an act he could simply have achieved with the click of a finger. Why all the gory drama. This god must be Shylock

I consider it the highest form of sacrifice . . . beasts do this all the time . . . sacrificing themselves for their young. Such a shame humans think this makes no sense.

You are disgracing urself mr david, your reply today is infertile, i guess you took some ogogoro which ur bible advice you to take.


Luke 22:42, jesus prayed not to be crucified, the xtrian god is indeed blood thirsty

Abuzola:

You are disgracing urself mr david, your reply today is infertile, i guess you took some ogogoro which your bible advice you to take.


Luke 22:42, jesus prayed not to be crucified, the xtrian god is indeed blood thirsty

and Allah is what? You know how many die daily for him?

The fact that thugs kill do they kill for God ? Use ur head

davidylan:

The only problem here is that you purport to know what God should do.

Purpoting to know what God should do shouldn't be a problem and it's not. Everything that ever was, is and will ever be is subject to His Laws, laid down even before anything was created and so He will not bend them arbitrarily just to please any one. His Ways and Person is the very epitome of Love and Justice. Both go hand in hand. So, one sure-fire way to know what should be ascribed to God is to always look for these twin attributes.

Punishments, as I understand, are meant to teach lessons, not to delight a sane punisher. Your theory of God punishing another in place of several others, is not only devoid of justice to the one punished (being innocent of the crime) it also implies that God took delight in the shedding of human blood. How dare you ascribe such a thing to God Himself and not see a problem but you see a problem with the concept of God being Loving in conjunction with being Just!

davidylan:

I consider it the highest form of sacrifice . . . beasts do this all the time . . . sacrificing themselves for their young. Such a shame humans think this makes no sense.

Beast sacrifice themselves in defence of their young against an external agrressor, NOT give their young to be killed (so they can enjoy the grisly act vicariously) in atonement for an act that was perpetrated against them. That will be 'below the sense of better judgement' of the beast.

There is no need for all these insults.  Hear from the mouth of Jesus Himself:

John 15:
13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

I said earlier that the hallmark of love is sacrifice.  Show me someone who says he loves, he must be ready to die for the loved, if needs be!  Why should it sound so senseless to you all that God loved you and I so much that He gave His only begotten son  (the Word made flesh) to die for us?

Are you not being hypocritical?  Jack gave his life for Rose in Titanic and everyone clapped and applauded what a love in its highest form!  Same with Romeo and Juliet!!  Jesus gave his life for humanity and you cried foul!!

Deep Sight:

ccollins: i do not doubt that his teachings of love are the way to God.

I doubt that he is God.

Two different things.

Deep Sight, you are not alone!  So did the Jews.  They even wanted to (and eventually did) kill him.  Scroll up and see the account as posted.

Deep Sight:


Nezan/ Analytical/ Modupe -

No insult intended, but it seems to me that you guys are not being deep or exhaustive enough in your reading of Bible verses.

Jesus himself explained the term "I and my Father are one" severally. He stated unequivocally that he and his father were one in the same way as we should be one with him. Now are you Jesus? No. But you are one with him in spirit as a christian, yes?

Thus the oneness was a oneness of accord, and not an ontological or existential oneness as an entity.

This verse elucidates and proves the point:

John 17:20-23: “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”

Its abundantly clear that its a spiritual and not ontological or existential oneness. There. That's Bible proof.

I want to be as simple as possible in explaining things. Unfortunately, it appears you do not understand what you read.  What you posted above is talking of unity and not existence!  Who was Jesus before he was born?  Did he exist before then or not?  If he did, then as what?

the_seeker:

listen to yourself. Do u think you made any sense at all. At that point when jesus (the man) was crying and bearing all your sins where was jesus (the god)? Was he in heaven with his father watching the drama his human body was acting?
Brother, you can do better than this. You dont have to debase your intelligence to such senslessness just because you want to believe

If you don't understand something, is it not gentlemanly to ask simply without resulting to insults?  The likes of you would still have cried foul if he didn't experience any pain at all by saying he is not a human being!


John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Philippians 2:
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.


Colossians 1:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.


Colossians 2:
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Abuzola:

Why are you slowpoke applying physic to God, the simple arithematic is God the father + God the son + holy spirit = trinity, if truely 3 then how come 3 equals to one, does it make sense,

Abuzola, since you refused to even read what is posted, I am not surprised you still go about the same cycle.  We have been trying to use nature, science, logic and even arithmetic to show that 3 entities coming together doesn't have to equate to 3!  Who told you the composition of God is based on simple arithmetic of addition?

Let me show you the more how nature itself speaks:

- You have been seeing the rainbow for ages.  That is a single entity is it not?  But how many colours make up the rainbow?  7!  But the rainbow is 1 and not 7!

- Taking you back to the realm of physics, you have been seeing common light since you were born.  Would you know that the composition of visible light is 7 and not 1?  Red+Orange+Yellow+Green+Blue+Indigo+Violet=Light!  Yet, light is 1?

-In Fine Arts and Painting, there are 3 primary colours Red, Blue and Yellow.  Yet different colours can be made from combination of these.  For example Red+Blue=Purple!  Purple is simply a combination of 2 primary colours.

I could go on and on.  We all agree with them and take them for granted.  Why is it when it comes to Father+Son+Spirit=GOD all hell is let lose?

Abuzola:

Jesus died who raise him ? The gullible reply was he was it, are you talking to fools ?

He said He is the Resurrection.  I didn't.  He has the authority within himself to raise himself back to life.  Death cannot hold Resurrection.  How hard is that for you to grasp?

John 11:
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life.

John 10:
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.

18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

19 At these words the Jews were again divided.

20 Many of them said, “He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?”

See the reaction of the Jews.  So it's not today it started.

Peace!

Hear what jesus said

John 20:17


'jesus said to her (mary magdalene),'Do not hold me, for i have not yet ascended to the father,

but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my father and your father, to my God and your God'

@analyse or whats that ur name: The rainbow and other chemistry you giving, they are intact unlike jesus having another God in heaven,

John 20:17


'jesus said to her (mary magdalene),'Do not hold me, for i have not yet ascended to the father,

but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my father and your father, to my God and your God'

Abuzola:

@analyse or whats that your name: The rainbow and other chemistry you giving, they are intact unlike jesus having another God in heaven,

John 20:17


'jesus said to her (mary magdalene),'Do not hold me, for i have not yet ascended to the father,

but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my father and your father, to my God and your God'

You asked a question and I gave you the answer, now you are displaying further ignorance of what you do not understand.  Chemistry is intact, rainbow, nature, physics, geography, mathematics, logic, everyone of them, are all intact except God!  You are such a comic relief!!

Enjoy your comedy.

The ID is Analytical not analyse. lol

Comic ? Is that ur new logic of evading questions, i have three wives does that make me trinity ? This is the same scenario of jesus,

Do you know that i and my wives are one ? So does that make me a woman, you took the parable of jesus into something else, i again challenge you to produce where jesus said,'i am God' and save the arguement

Evade questions?  No, I don't.  I answered all your questions.  Go back and read very well.  If I don't know an answer I will simply say so.  I don't like arguments.  I only explained the questions you and others were asking.  It is left for you to accept them.

I have endeavoured to show you from John, Colossians, Philippians.  You refused to read them.  Let me indulge you again with these, maybe you will read:

John 14:
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.


John 20:
24 Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came.

25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it.”

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”

27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


1 John 1:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.

2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.


1 John 2:
22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.

23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.


Enjoy your wives.  Take care.

@Deepsight;

Nezan/ Analytical/ Modupe -

No insult intended, but it seems to me that you guys are not being deep or exhaustive enough in your reading of Bible verses.

Because you read the Bible with a biased mind doesn’t mean you should insult the intelligence of Christians. Are you claiming to be more intelligent than Christians all over the world who believe in Trinity? Nairaland can indeed make people say unimaginable things.

Jesus himself explained the term "I and my Father are one" severally. He stated unequivocally that he and his father were one in the same way as we should be one with him. Now are you Jesus? No. But you are one with him in spirit as a christian, yes?

Thus the oneness was a oneness of accord, and not an ontological or existential oneness as an entity.
This verse elucidates and proves the point:

John 17:20-23: “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”

Its abundantly clear that its a spiritual and not ontological or existential oneness. There. That's Bible proof.

The verse you quoted and explained out of context, actually shows Jesus, praying that believers should imitate the unity He had with the Father.  
Whenever Christ speaks about unity, you ought to remember how basely and shockingly, when separated from him, the world is scattered; and, next, let. us learn that the commencement of a blessed life is, that we be all governed, and that we all live, by the Spirit of Christ alone.
Again, you ought to understand, that, in every instance in which Christ declares, in this chapter, that he is one with the Father, he speaks of his Divine essence, and  that he is called one as regards his mediatorial office, and in so far as he is our Head. Now, Christ reasons from the end, by showing that we ought to be one, otherwise the unity which he has with the Father would be fruitless and unavailing. To comprehend aright what was intended by saying, that Christ and the Father are one, we must take care not to deprive Christ of his office as Mediator, but must rather view him as he is the Head of the Church, and unite him with his members. Thus will the chain of thought be preserved, that, in order to prevent the unity of the Son with the Father from being fruitless and unavailing, the power of that unity must be diffused through the whole body of believers. Hence, too, we infer that we are one with the Son of God; not because he conveys his substance to us, but because, by the power of his Spirit, he imparts to us his life and all the blessings which he has received from the Father.

On your belief that Jesus is not God, remember that after 3 years with his disciples we read how one of them asks Jesus and wants to be "shown the Father (God)".

 Jesus answered, "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. , Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves." (John 14:10-11).

Jesus expected the disciples and the people around him to recognise his true nature and identity from his words which are only appropriate for God to speak and from his deeds. Jesus does give enough proof and then lets you draw your own conclusions. Everybody could make the claim to be God. And
many have made claims to be (a) god throughout history. Only the true God can give true evidence for it and if you have the evidence there is no need for the explicit command to worship anymore. His real identity is established by the proof he gives, not by claims each and everybody can make. After he has given the evidence, those who are open for the truth will recognise the evidence, those who ignore the evidence won't be convinced either. And if you have recognized his true identity, worshiping him is only proper and will nearly be an "automatic" response. So no need for useless repetitive arguments!

@ Modupe01/Analytical/Nezan

You proponents of the Redeeming Blood theory, have you ever stopped to ask yourselves why God would NEED the blood for whatever purpose? Have you ever stopped to ponder that tiresome phrase - 'there is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood', instead of rattling it off like a programmed robot?

Are you implying that an omnipotent being who could easily have created any kind of blood of whatever composition to suit any kind of purpose, first has to come to earth, subject us to a gory sight of a violent death just so he can collect the blood of an innocent?

I would have chosen to ignore you, but I sensed your ignorance hence this reply:

Reading through the book of exodus and other books in the old testament (or the Jewish torah) can be a very shocking experience: it is replete with stories of countless animals been killed and sacrificed to God. You may ask, why the need for the sobering and disturbing spilling of blood?

The bible says that ‘the wages of sin is death’ (Romans 6:23), and that ‘all have sinned and come short of the glory of God’ (Romans 3:23). Jesus also, shortly before His death, shared a cup of wine and declared: ‘This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sin’ (Matthew 26:28).

The sacrificing of animals was given to the Israelites as a lesson about the cost that God will pay in the person of His Son to redeem humanity to Himself. God also told Moses that blood represents life. The blood of the sacrificed, innocent animals represented the cost of redemption in the blood of God’s own Son.

It is greatly disheartening to see that 'christians', who are supposed to be the direct recipient of the sublime message of love and justice brought by Jesus, from God The Father; are the ones who have managed to drag down and make a mess of Jesus' Work! They have managed to conjure an image of a god whose attribute is below that of man. Come to think of it, I can't immediately think of any beast that would do what 'christians' ascribe to God Himself!

What a shocking and blatant lie you told there. How can God’s attributes be below that of a man? You make hipped-up claims without backing them up with facts. The Christian God is love (which He demonstrated by sending His Son to die for man’s redemption), He is all-knowing, Omnipresent etc. etc., which attribute has made God less than man, liar?

@the_seeker;

even a beast will not murder his only begotten son in cold blood to fulfill an act he could simply have achieved with the click of a finger. Why all the gory drama. This god must be Shylock

Of the 99 attributes of allah, none is love, so I don’t blame a muslim mind when it fails to fathom that there is no greater love than one laying down his life for the salvation of mankind, which was what Jesus did to save me and you.

You are still repeating the same incoherence arguement,

How many times have i been saying that me and my wife are one, does that make me a woman ? I told you that the only way you can refute it is by quoting where jesus said,'i am God' tantamount to saying 'i am a woman'