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Signs Your Hybrid Battery Is Failing - Car Talk - Nairaland

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Hybrid And Electric Vehicle Maintenance: Highlander Hybrid Battery Tear Down / I Need Help, My Car Battery Is Draining Itself! / Pre-order 2008 Toyota Prius (1.8M, Hybrid Battery CERTIFIED OKAY) (2) (3) (4)

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Signs Your Hybrid Battery Is Failing by TRYGO(m): 12:15pm On Dec 06, 2016
INTRODUCTION
This article is based on Toyota branded hybrid cars, specifically, PRIUS.
Hybrid electric vehicles(HEV), are a luxury to own, because of the many benefits such vehicles come with.
For instance, they've a low emissions carbon footprint; and tremendous fuel cost savings, etc.

Lots of potential hybrid car buyers, see the initial cost of purchase of such cars as exorbitant, or to say the least, very expensive.

One of the reasons such cars are expensive is because of the cost of production of the hybrid battery itself, and the benefits in terms of maintenance cost savings that would accrue to the customer spread over down over the years.

The composition of the battery, is totally different from the normal car battery. The normal car battery is lead acid type, while the hybrid battery is solely a NIMH (Nickel metal hydride ). The electrodes are made from transition metals, which have several applications in other fields.

DOES THE BATTERY LAST FOREVER?
I don't think so. Whatever goes through wear and tear, frequent usage, would definitely someday, fail.
Even healthy human beings suddenly falls sick, and if that person isn't lucky, could give up the ghost.
Toyota says its hybrid batteries lasts for the entire life of its hybrid vehicles, and at the same time says such batteries are under a warranty of 10years/150,000miles.

WHY DO SUCH EXPENSIVE BATTERIES FAIL?

*due to excessive mileages. It should be noted that if a car's mileage, for instance, was around, 300, 759miles, that the car should fail instantly. The operating voltage of the battery, and its amperages would still be able to absorb the load from the car's hybrid control systems. In some instances, the battery would suddenly go out of service as its state of charge (SOC) drops to 0%.

*excessive temperatures. because of the chemical composition of hybrid batteries electrolytes, excess heat tends to cause increased pressure buildups in battery modules.
It so very important to ensure that all blower fan inlet openings are not blocked; blower fans are working optimally.
It is this heat build up in this batteries that cause battery electrolyte leaks on hybrid battery terminals, and explosions also.

Exposing the car for long in the sun, also has its impacts on the battery. Get a shady place to park the car.

*manufacturing processes error. Not all battery modules manufactured in the production facility, would have the same precision during production . Errors could be introduced from human sources.
When such errors are noted as a result of public complaints, companies issue out recalls for such defects.

*driving conditions of car owner. aggressive driving, would shorten the lifespan of the battery; allowing the car in R(reverse), without moving, would abruptly drain the juice in the battery.


SYMPTOMS OF A FAILING HYBRID BATTERY

1. All the dash lights would be displayed on the dashboard, and on the MFD(multifunction display). You'll see lights like Triangle caution sign, check engine light, etc.

2. Unusual engine noise. The engine would frequently be running, instead of the normal switching of both ICE and electric motors.

3. Terrible gas mileage. The fuel consumption of the car would drop drastically from maybe 45-22MPG. If you notice such a deviation of the fuel economy from what it used to be, you've got a battery problem lurking already.

4. Fluctuating fuel gauge. The gauge fluctuates and gives a wrong reading.

5. Sudden drop in battery bars. You parked and left the car with a full battery bar, and suddenly when you came to start the car, you realized the bars have descended to a single bar. At thus point, the engine quickly starts to recharge the hybrid battery.

6. Blower fan comes on regularly. When the fan comes on regularly, it points to the fact that the hybrid is extremely getting heated up, and capacity is depreciating. So, the fan comes on, to help keep it cool, temporarily.

THE FIX?
Normally when hybrid batteries fail, it doesn't mean the entire battery modules in the pack have failed. It could be either one, or two modules have failed.

*Outright replacement. Such batteries can be replaced by purchasing a new one from the company concerned.
Toyota offers a 10year/150, 000miles warranty on its battery pack. It cost thousands of dollars to purchase. Its up to 3000$.

*Recondition the battery. This option is somewhat cheaper, but the labour hours required is more.
The battery in this option is sourced from a low mileage car from a junkyard.
It's advisable to know the history of the donor vehicle. If that can't be ascertained, get a warranty from the supplier of the battery. That would present a win win situation for both parties.
You could get a number of modules online from eBay, and so on. Wherever you're getting your source batteries/modules from, ensure they're loaded tested before buying them.
The cost of a battery pack for a Prius us about 200-250, 000 naira.

HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR BATTERY FIT

*Ensure the blower inlets located at the rear are not blocked by the seats coverings.

*Nip in the bud problems before they degenerate into bigger problems.
Don't ignore the triangle caution light sign(master warning light).
Get the car scanned for codes, and start from there.

*Sign up for a bimonthly battery health check. That would show you the current state of your battery, including battery block voltages, state of charge(SOC), and a lot more.
The health check is like a typical system that looks at the available amperage capacity of your battery.

*Carry out a recharge/discharge cycle two or three months, to bring the battery back to full capacity.
Check for corrosions on the battery terminals.
Corrosions o. the terminals would cause partial contact issues.

*Parking the car for long? If you won't be in town for months or weeks, you could pass your car to a friend to keep driving it, before you come. This is because, a parked hybrid car under the sun, would self discharge at a faster rate.
Hybrid batteries self discharge at a rate of 1% daily.

PS: Pictures below shows some of the battery reconditioning we've done.

CONCLUSION
Bear in mind that your car's hybrid battery would not last you forever.
Proper preventive maintenance of such batteries, would extend the battery even beyond Toyota's 10year/150,000miles warranty.

PS: Our battery jobs takes a week for installations and carrying out tests and calibrations.





Regards,
Joseph
08066643532
oigonojoseph@yahoo.com

Re: Signs Your Hybrid Battery Is Failing by ikefor(m): 9:15pm On Dec 15, 2016
@TRYGO / Joseph nice piece. One of the easiest, and perhaps the most critical ways to keep your hybrid battery fit in Nigeria is to always use your air conditioner. The sweet spot setting will be between 75 to 78 d/f which will reduce the demand of the compressor on the hybrid battery but still effective enough to provide some cooling to reduce the cabin temperature. This will assist in reducing the temperature of the hybrid battery as temperature is the "biggest killer" of hybrid batteries in Nigeria and hybrid batteries cool only using cabin air.

You have P3000/123 written in the posted picture in your post, as you know, this code is set when the hybrid ECU receives an abnormal signal from the battery ECU. The fix for this code often requires changing the hybrid battery ECU and frame wire No 2 at the least. Should you be in the market for any of these hybrid system components, you can check on me.

Mr. Jossy (hybrids.com.ng)
2007 prius 1NZ-FXE
2010 Prius 2ZR-FXE

hybrids.com.ng

Re: Signs Your Hybrid Battery Is Failing by TRYGO(m): 7:42am On Dec 17, 2016
@ikefor. How you doing? Saw your comments. You're right about the Ac system cooling the traction batteries, and the P3000-123.

I do understand the interpretation of the p3000 code, and what should be done, according Alldata and Mitchell softwares.

History of the car
¶¶¶PRIUS 07¶¶¶

Displayed almost all the symptoms of a failing battery(traction). Poor gas mileage, P3000-123, and at times, P0A08.

Below is how that car's problem was fixed:

*erased codes and did some drive cycles, triangle caution sign and codes remained same.

* swapped the battery pack junction completely with a known one, erased the code, and test drove the car, got the same code.
Note: The battery junction I mean is the component that houses the system main relays(1, 2, and 3); battery smart unit; resistor; etc.

* swapped the battery, and returned the car's own battery junction(pls refer to above meaning of the junction). The P3000 code left, but block one on the swapped battery from a donor car, was showing 13.....volts, instead of the uniform voltage of 14.....shown by the other blocks. All these were viewed real time on techstream. So, this has enabled us isolate or narrowed down our troubleshooting, to the battery area itself.

*performed OCV, and LCV tests, discovered 6Nos battery modules out of balance.
Replaces them, with other modules, and discovered other healthy modules could not cope with the load.
Wise decision was to info the customer, it's better we replaced the pack.

PS: Mileage is 275, 900mileages

*the week battery went through a discharge/charge cycle for some hours, to balance up with the other modules in the battery pack.

*pack replaced, and problem solved. Customer gets 50MPGs now, and no driveability issues.


¥¥¥¥This was what I think happened¥¥¥¥

The battery pack's ECU receives signals from the various sensors on that battery pack, and it sends what it has received to the HV ECU at the hood area for processing. If the signal the battery smart unit is receiving is way below reference standard, the HV ECU would go in to safe mode, and set up those codes, at the same time disabling the ABS/VSC system.

I think what I've learnt on that job, was not just to trust Mitchell software as a total fix, but for one to understand how those components in the trouble area pointed out by the scan tool works.


Wan ne! How you doing?



Regards,
Joseph

Re: Signs Your Hybrid Battery Is Failing by ikefor(m): 7:18pm On Dec 17, 2016
@TRYGO / Joseph nice to hear that the car is back on the road and doing 50MPG - that's pretty impressive.

Just curious, what sub code did you get with the P0A08 and what did you do to resolve it?


Yes, i understand the battery junction from your post above refers to the point of terminal connections to the system main relays 2 and 3. Prius does not have a battery smart unit as referred to in your pic (TCH does), you’re probably referring to the relays. The system main resistor is the white stuff that connects to the SMR2 (+ve side of frame wire).

Best of luck on your repairs and always practice safety!!

Mr. Jossy
2007 Prius 1NZ-FXE
2010 Prius 2ZR-FXE

hybrids dot com dot ng
Re: Signs Your Hybrid Battery Is Failing by TRYGO(m): 8:05pm On Dec 17, 2016
For the p3000, the sub was 123, while got the p0a08, along side other codes related to the abs/VSC system.

Thanks for the correction, IKEFOR! I mixed the jargons up. I meant to say the battery ECU.

Ikefor. Safety is paramount in thus job o!
No safety=death sentence.

How work na?
Hey, saw you with Mr Patrick Wong. Understand what I'm saying?
Only you and I can decode that PATRICK WONG.
Re: Signs Your Hybrid Battery Is Failing by Hvjohn: 6:01am On Jan 03, 2019
Good day, please I have this error code on my Toyota highlander hybrid P3000 after I replaced my gearbox, the car we start on hybrid but it not switch to engine for it to charge the battery. Thanks
Re: Signs Your Hybrid Battery Is Failing by TRYGO(m): 5:34pm On Aug 04, 2019
@hvjohn. What's the subcode of the p3000 you got? Has the car being fixed already?
Re: Signs Your Hybrid Battery Is Failing by idmoore(m): 12:14am On Aug 05, 2019
TRYGO:

INTRODUCTION
This article is based on Toyota branded hybrid cars, specifically, PRIUS.
Hybrid electric vehicles(HEV), are a luxury to own, because of the many benefits such vehicles come with.
For instance, they've a low emissions carbon footprint; and tremendous fuel cost savings, etc.

Lots of potential hybrid car buyers, see the initial cost of purchase of such cars as exorbitant, or to say the least, very expensive.

One of the reasons such cars are expensive is because of the cost of production of the hybrid battery itself, and the benefits in terms of maintenance cost savings that would accrue to the customer spread over down over the years.

The composition of the battery, is totally different from the normal car battery. The normal car battery is lead acid type, while the hybrid battery is solely a NIMH (Nickel metal hydride ). The electrodes are made from transition metals, which have several applications in other fields.

DOES THE BATTERY LAST FOREVER?
I don't think so. Whatever goes through wear and tear, frequent usage, would definitely someday, fail.
Even healthy human beings suddenly falls sick, and if that person isn't lucky, could give up the ghost.
Toyota says its hybrid batteries lasts for the entire life of its hybrid vehicles, and at the same time says such batteries are under a warranty of 10years/150,000miles.

WHY DO SUCH EXPENSIVE BATTERIES FAIL?

*due to excessive mileages. It should be noted that if a car's mileage, for instance, was around, 300, 759miles, that the car should fail instantly. The operating voltage of the battery, and its amperages would still be able to absorb the load from the car's hybrid control systems. In some instances, the battery would suddenly go out of service as its state of charge (SOC) drops to 0%.

*excessive temperatures. because of the chemical composition of hybrid batteries electrolytes, excess heat tends to cause increased pressure buildups in battery modules.
It so very important to ensure that all blower fan inlet openings are not blocked; blower fans are working optimally.
It is this heat build up in this batteries that cause battery electrolyte leaks on hybrid battery terminals, and explosions also.

Exposing the car for long in the sun, also has its impacts on the battery. Get a shady place to park the car.

*manufacturing processes error. Not all battery modules manufactured in the production facility, would have the same precision during production . Errors could be introduced from human sources.
When such errors are noted as a result of public complaints, companies issue out recalls for such defects.

*driving conditions of car owner. aggressive driving, would shorten the lifespan of the battery; allowing the car in R(reverse), without moving, would abruptly drain the juice in the battery.


SYMPTOMS OF A FAILING HYBRID BATTERY

1. All the dash lights would be displayed on the dashboard, and on the MFD(multifunction display). You'll see lights like Triangle caution sign, check engine light, etc.

2. Unusual engine noise. The engine would frequently be running, instead of the normal switching of both ICE and electric motors.

3. Terrible gas mileage. The fuel consumption of the car would drop drastically from maybe 45-22MPG. If you notice such a deviation of the fuel economy from what it used to be, you've got a battery problem lurking already.

4. Fluctuating fuel gauge. The gauge fluctuates and gives a wrong reading.

5. Sudden drop in battery bars. You parked and left the car with a full battery bar, and suddenly when you came to start the car, you realized the bars have descended to a single bar. At thus point, the engine quickly starts to recharge the hybrid battery.

6. Blower fan comes on regularly. When the fan comes on regularly, it points to the fact that the hybrid is extremely getting heated up, and capacity is depreciating. So, the fan comes on, to help keep it cool, temporarily.

THE FIX?
Normally when hybrid batteries fail, it doesn't mean the entire battery modules in the pack have failed. It could be either one, or two modules have failed.

*Outright replacement. Such batteries can be replaced by purchasing a new one from the company concerned.
Toyota offers a 10year/150, 000miles warranty on its battery pack. It cost thousands of dollars to purchase. Its up to 3000$.

*Recondition the battery. This option is somewhat cheaper, but the labour hours required is more.
The battery in this option is sourced from a low mileage car from a junkyard.
It's advisable to know the history of the donor vehicle. If that can't be ascertained, get a warranty from the supplier of the battery. That would present a win win situation for both parties.
You could get a number of modules online from eBay, and so on. Wherever you're getting your source batteries/modules from, ensure they're loaded tested before buying them.
The cost of a battery pack for a Prius us about 200-250, 000 naira.

HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR BATTERY FIT

*Ensure the blower inlets located at the rear are not blocked by the seats coverings.

*Nip in the bud problems before they degenerate into bigger problems.
Don't ignore the triangle caution light sign(master warning light).
Get the car scanned for codes, and start from there.

*Sign up for a bimonthly battery health check. That would show you the current state of your battery, including battery block voltages, state of charge(SOC), and a lot more.
The health check is like a typical system that looks at the available amperage capacity of your battery.

*Carry out a recharge/discharge cycle two or three months, to bring the battery back to full capacity.
Check for corrosions on the battery terminals.
Corrosions o. the terminals would cause partial contact issues.

*Parking the car for long? If you won't be in town for months or weeks, you could pass your car to a friend to keep driving it, before you come. This is because, a parked hybrid car under the sun, would self discharge at a faster rate.
Hybrid batteries self discharge at a rate of 1% daily.

PS: Pictures below shows some of the battery reconditioning we've done.

CONCLUSION
Bear in mind that your car's hybrid battery would not last you forever.
Proper preventive maintenance of such batteries, would extend the battery even beyond Toyota's 10year/150,000miles warranty.

PS: Our battery jobs takes a week for installations and carrying out tests and calibrations.





Regards,
Joseph
08066643532
oigonojoseph@yahoo.com

@TRYGO Am seriously impressed with this eye opener information you have given up.
Am currently eyeing a Corolla 2020 model Hybrid trim, considering the fact that it give about 52MPG than the basic Corolla 2020 LE that gives about 34MPG.

I will be doing a whole lots of running around, what do you advice, should I maintain the basic Corolla LE trim or Hybrid.
Re: Signs Your Hybrid Battery Is Failing by TRYGO(m): 7:48pm On Aug 05, 2019
I think the choice of the vehicle you'd go for, is dependent on, 1) your pockets, 2)what exactly you want, and for what purpose; 3) the technical expertise available at your disposal, and finally, 4) is the corolla hybrid you're considering a used one, or?(sorry for my ignorance here maybe).

If the corolla is a brand new one, then, you don't have issues, for a LONG......TIME!

The costs of purchasing the car, would pay for itself, in a short time, in terms of fuel savings, and profits maximization, if you intend to use it for Uber, etc.

But if its a used one, ensured the health of that traction battery is absolutely perfect.

If you can sort out the above, then the choice of what to buy, won't be complex for you.

For the conventional corolla, that MPG, is perfect, as compared to some cars on the road these days.

Parts are available everywhere, easy to maintain, and almost every mechanic you see around, can handle it.

Could you pls indicate what you intend to use either of the vehicles for?



Regards,
Joseph
Re: Signs Your Hybrid Battery Is Failing by idmoore(m): 9:38pm On Aug 05, 2019
@TRYGO

Thank you for your response.
The Corolla 2020 Hybrid am getting will be a foreign used one and am planning towards it by this time next year.
I will be using it as my personal car and certainly I move around alot due to my job but certainly NOT to be use for Uber.

Uber fire...my talking about a 2020 Corolla here.

I just wish to make use of a Hybrid spec and especially when Corolla now has a Hybrid spec, I wish to enjoy high MPG but if it will come with lots of precautions and challenges of unassured or guarantee Hybrid battery replacement that can tear my pocket into 2 piece irrespective of how many years I have been using the car then, I think I won't hesitate to do the ICE 2020 Corolla LE trim.

Do you have any input Sir.
Re: Signs Your Hybrid Battery Is Failing by TRYGO(m): 5:17am On Aug 06, 2019
Won't tear your pockets. Just make sure the battery isn't problematic before importing the car from North America.

I don't think a 2020 hybrid vehicle, would have issues so quick. But again, this would depends on, the state/condition of the car, at the time of purchase.

Run Carfax checks over there; do a physical inspections of the car, if you or your trusted agent/specialists inspections centres over there can do it.

Finally, such a car would take longer time to start breaking down, if the car you're buying isn't/wasn't an accident one.

Can you cope with the time frames involved just in case your car is being worked on in a shop?

Do you have another car as a supporting one just in case?

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