KingEbukasBlog:


I was studying the origin of religion yesterday night when I discovered that . While atheism came during the final centuries of BCE (about 2,500 years ago) . Religion has always been with man .

Will you not applaud me for discovering it before you through logical reasoning while you had to research yours. You have details but i have reason. What do i get for beating you to it?

Google the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy.

availableisme:


Is Sexual Immorality encouraged or a Sin in the Bible? If yes can you say a Christian who commits it is still a Christian?

Anas09:

Keep your head above water and post the verses where the Bible commanded us to rape each other.

Or Paedophilia in the Bible? Maybe in your own not mine.

Societal laws that are set or godliness or atheism?

can you read my questions again after drinking a glass of water and taking deep breaths?

From one of my.old posts

"This argument about homosexuality leading to acceptance of incest, pedophilia and bestiality is old. One could argue that incest is wrong because it can produce offspring with harmful mutations, even if no children comes from incestuous relationships it could also be argued that it perverts the bond that exists between siblings and parents. Pedophilia is wrong because the sexual activity occurs between an adult who takes advantage of a child who isnt mentally/emotianally/physically mature, and pedophiles who purchase materials depicting pedophilia fund individuals who exploit children for money, essentially sexual slavery of children. As for bestiality, are you comparing the quality of relationships between two humans to the relationship between a human and an animal? :/ this one is generally just weak."

Although it seems like you're saying religion and religious texts are a complete moral source. I would like to know where exactly the bible condemned pedophilia and slavery, I haven't seen it, and yet you (hopefully) believe both are immoral. Ever wonder why or hoe you knew this?

Edenoscar:


They all pretended as if it didnt exist, smh for these guys

If you have eyes you'd read that KingEbukasBlog has answered him. Most the Op respond to him again?

shadeyinka:
Civilization is defined as:
1. An organized culture encompassing many communities, often on the scale of a nation or a people;
2. A stage or system of social, political,or technical development.

Most of the cultural norms we have today have Theistic basis behind them. The concept of Morality is mostly theistic in origin.

Today, we have a culture that forbids incest almost throughout the world. I would want us to focus only on this vis-à-vis: The Wonderful Logics of Atheism and INCEST!

How you ever wondered how the world would be when Atheism becomes the worlds only "religion"?

Let's look at a typical Atheist logic about a theme as homosexuality. Most atheists are heterosexual BUT they see nothing wrong with Homosexuality because as far as they are concerned, as long as

1. The act of homosexuality is consensual
2. The Homosexuality is between Adults
3. The sexual act is hurting no one
Then, it should be respected as a NORMAL and VALID way of life and sexual expression.

Today, let's use the same logic for incest.
Fathers, Mothers, Children (adults) having consensual sex with each other as acceptable sexual orientation.

Now, to Atheists on Nairaland,(assuming pregnancy is ruled out)
Would incest be acceptable way of life?
Should this be encouraged ?
Would this be immoral?

Or (as a single question)

What is the stance of Atheism on Incest?

The answer you give will show us whether civilization will Collapse under the rule of Atheism or Advance.

I am sure that few atheists will respond to this: it is like giving them a rope to hang themselves.

Cc:
winner01 , kingebukasblog , scholar8200 , Muafrika2 Dejideji1 , MrPresident1, OLAADEGBU, Hardmirror, Raphiemontella,/MrMontella Donffd, KingEbukasBlog, anas09, OLAADEGBU, KingEbukaNaija, analice107, vooks, Ishilove, sukkot, gatiano, mrpresident1, lalasticlala, seun, Farmerforlife, 4evergod2, naijadeyhia

hello brother!
Mention this monicker henceforth@the bolded...raphiemontella went on a vacay...he travelled and said i should substitute for him

---

On your incest...

Explain..

Under Your Theistic doctrine,which is under the dictation of your supreme being who is the source of morals..

1)The world was populated by incestuous relations...not once but twice...


2)Your theistic supreme being...
Blessed an incestous marriage

And yet indeed, she [Sarah] is my [Abraham's]
sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the
daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. Genesis 20:12

And I will bless her [Sarah], and give thee a son also
of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a
mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Genesis 17:16

3)Your God's tight paddy,,if not his bestfriend;Moses was the product of an incestuous marriage...

And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to
wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses. Exodus 6:20

Moralize these instances..

AgentOfAllah:
Admittedly, religion, much like culture, promotes certain evolutionarily advantageous traits in terms of norms and taboos. Yet, you're wrong to attribute things you lack an understanding of to theism. Many old religions are silent on endogamy, yet incest has always been a social taboo in societies where these archaic religions were practiced.
This makes it clear that religion and culture are merely secondary reinforcers of our aversion to incestuous relationships. In fact, this aversion isn't just human, there is insurmountable evidence that it is panmammalian (see Pusey, A. and M. Wolf (1996). "Inbreeding avoidance in animals." Trends in Ecology & Evolution 11(5): 201-206.).

Clearly, the underlying common denominator here is that incest avoidance is patently a consequence of natural selection. Murray R.D. has addressed this exhaustively in his peer reviewed article (see Murray, R. D. (1980). "The evolution and functional significance of incest avoidance." Journal of Human Evolution 9(3): 173-178.). In his conclusion, he suggests that:
"...the primary function of incest avoidance is rooted in the origins of biparental reproduction in that it serves to maximize genetic variability necessary for adaptation. In accord, the human incest taboo is likely an extension of this biological predisposition, which does not exclude its incorporation in a multitude of additional social functions that have been addressed previously by several authors (Levi
Strauss, 1970; Slater, 1959)."
Obviously, from a natural selection viewpoint, pregnancy (that is, reproductive viability) is the natural factor from which the morality of mammalian aversion to inbreeding is derived, not any culture/religion. So you can't just whimsically assume it is ruled out and then proceed to debunk a hypothetical argument.

That said, having consensual sex with your family members will not cause any kind of far reaching damage to society, nor will it destroy civilisation (except your definition of civilisation has got something to do with sexual practices).

To answer your 3-pronged questions on incest (supposing pregnancy is ruled out, like you say):
1) It is an acceptable way of life.
2) It should neither be encouraged nor discouraged.
3) It was implicit in my explanation above, that morality is a by-product of evolution. Incest is no more (im)moral than exogamy.

While you're apt to contemplate the moral dilemmas of incest, be mindful that it is not a topic to be brushed over with partial reflectiveness. For one, it doesn't help to oversimplify complex human behaviours into religion/culture/morality; and it sure as hell helps to understand the role of cognitive bias in your musings and thought processes.

Finally, atheism has no stance on incest! You may find many atheists opposed to it, as you may find ones favourable towards it. The only stance of atheism (and all atheists) is that there is no evidence for god. The clue is in the definition of the word "Atheist".

The boss has spoken!


Fantastic!
Really fantastic!

Ranchhoddas:
Oga to every rule, there will always be few exceptions, are there no Christians commiting incest? In fact, majority of the incestuous people are not atheists as they always blame the Devil whenever they are caught.

Yes, to every rule, there would be violators. The problem isn't about the rules, the rules themself produce our culture. Culture has to do with organisation and rules of socially binding norms.

Rationality and absolute Freedom for self expression is promoted by atheism: the combination of these in its ultimate form destroys civilization.

You remember the Hippies of the 70s. Yes!
Atheism is just a modern form of the Hypies movement. Prove me wrong.

availableisme:


Will you not applaud me for discovering it before you through logical reasoning while you had to research yours. You have details but i have reason.

Very commendable bro .You did well

What do i get for beating you to it?

A cartooned Albert Einstein giving you a thumbs up

KingEbukasBlog:


That's not true . There are so many people who have confessed to having sexual attraction to their sibling or even to their parents . I strongly believe that when you are taught from childhood that such is abominable then you become repulsed by the idea .

I mean even animals are attracted to their siblings and even parents are attracted to their young ones .


And I have not heard of natural aversion to suicide or mass murder . Ask the atheist mass murderers .

In China during Mao's regime over 1 to 3 million were reported to have committed suicide .

So these prove your assumptions wrong .

These people are the exceptions, rather than the rule.

---

Are you attracted to your family members? Are you suicidal? Do you have genocidal fantasies? How many other people with these traits do you know personally?

MrMontella:

hello brother!
Mention this monicker henceforth@the bolded...raphiemontella went on a vacay...he travelled and said i should substitute for him

---

On your incest...

Explain..

Under Your Theistic doctrine,which is under the dictation of your supreme being who is the source of morals..

1)The world was populated by incestuous relations...not once but twice...


2)Your theistic supreme being...
Blessed an incestous marriage




3)Your God's tight paddy,,if not his bestfriend;Moses was the product of an incestuous marriage...




Moralize these instances..

Wow I didn't know that. Guess if a great man like moses could be a product of incest how could it possibly be wrong!

shadeyinka:


Yes, to every rule, there would be violators. The problem isn't about the rules, the rules themself produce our culture. Culture has to do with organisation and rules of socially binding norms.

Rationality and absolute Freedom for self expression is promoted by atheism: the combination of these in its ultimate form destroys civilization.

You remember the Hippies of the 70s. Yes!
Atheism is just a modern form of the Hypies movement. Prove me wrong.

Psalm 14:1 proves you wrong.

MrMontella:

The boss has spoken!


Fantastic!
Really fantastic!

You truely sound like Squealer of Animal Farm!
So, agentofallah has become your Napoleon? SMH!

Atheists who have live in the shadows of popular votes with no mind of their own. The major question still is "If we are all atheists in the world, then there shall be nothing wrong with incestuously living: would this promote civilization?"

availableisme:


Surely if you have taken your time to observe this thread nobody has been rude or insulting to anyone here until you brought yourself into the mix. You would do well to simmer down a few notches and speak intelligently and respectfully. If you have inner problems which propelled you to speak in this manner then deal with them and do not transfer them to people who know nothing or have anything to do with your inner disputes.

You certainly know that there is yet no other word to describe thoughts, that in all known measures are nonsensical and idiotic.

And it's intelligent to be able to identify such nonsense in folks thoughts, so that the appropriate remedy can be administered.

To respect inimical thoughts and ideas is anti scientific culture and traditions.

Folks who are malicious and distortful in the information they put in public domain, do have the appropriate descriptive names.

Deal with that.

Ranchhoddas:
These people are the exceptions, rather than the rule.

---

Are you attracted to your family members? Are you suicidal? Do you have genocidal fantasies? How many other people with these traits do you know personally?

That is what is called the fallacy of exclusion . There are so many evidences like I listed that confute your claims that man naturally detests incest ,mass suicide or mass murder .

As as far there is evidence that proves your proposition is false ,then it renders it invalid . That's what being logical is all about .

MrMontella:

hello brother!
Mention this monicker henceforth@the bolded...raphiemontella went on a vacay...he travelled and said i should substitute for him

---

On your incest...

Explain..

Under Your Theistic doctrine,which is under the dictation of your supreme being who is the source of morals..

1)The world was populated by incestuous relations...not once but twice...


2)Your theistic supreme being...
Blessed an incestous marriage




3)Your God's tight paddy,,if not his bestfriend;Moses was the product of an incestuous marriage...




Moralize these instances..

You can look at it in two ways and that is as

a. His father’s sister, That is, kinswoman, as the Hebrew word frequently means. Amminadab or a prince of the tribe of Judah. If you look at it this way then we can say that the Levites might marry into any tribe, there being no danger of confusion or loss of inheritance thereby.

b. .If you can tell me when the Law was given or when it began then you can deduce your answer for yourself. Did Genesis 17: 16 come before Leviticus 18:12?

akintom:


You certainly know that there is yet no other word to describe thoughts, that in all known measures are nonsensical and idiotic.

And it's intelligent to be able to identify such nonsense in folks thoughts, so that the appropriate remedy can be administered.

To respect inimical thoughts and ideas is anti scientific culture and traditions.

Folks who are malicious and distortful in the information they put in public domain, do have the appropriate descriptive names.

Deal with that.

Civility is a word you need to study.

shadeyinka:


AgentofAllah has been bold, straight forward, courteous and logical with his presentations. If you checked, you will see that I have replied him.

Your own view pls?

Civilization and ORDER go hand in hand. When order is destroyed based on Atheistic rationality, show me how this order is maintained.

Show me that respect within families will become stronger as a result of incestuous living. Show me the advantage the promotion of incest will give to civilization.

I do not support incest.

Ranchhoddas:
Psalm 14:1 proves you wrong.

Ps14:1 Says who a true fool is!

Ranchhoddas:
I do not support incest.

Are you an Atheist? You do not sound like one.

KingEbukasBlog:


That is what is called the fallacy of exclusion . There are so many evidences like I listed that confute your claims that man naturally detests incest ,mass suicide or mass murder .

As as far there is evidence that proves your proposition is false ,then it renders it invalid . That's what being logical is all about .

Please what percentage of the world's population are these 'evidences'?

availableisme:


I know about evolution and it does not explain everything contrary to what you might think. Its still a hypothesis in the works. Statistically randomness cannot produce order so lets not go there.

If Natural selection is true then why did it not also deal with anger and hatred and bitterness since they are all emotional driven same way incest, homosexuality and sodomy are?

hmmm...

Darwin's TOE is still the go to model for seeking explanations for Everything. Literally everything. The fact that the theory is still undergoing development doesn't change that. In fact, everything in science can be developed or reviewed at any point.

Statistically randomness cannot produce order so lets not go there.

Spontaneous order, also named self-organization in the hard sciences, is the spontaneous emergence of order out of seeming chaos. -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_order



Groups of human beings, left free to each regulate themselves, tend to produce spontaneous order, rather than the meaningless chaos often feared. This has been observed in society at least since Chuang Tzu in ancient China. A classic traffic roundabout is a good example, with cars moving in and out with such effective organization that some modern cities have begun replacing stoplights at problem intersections with traffic circles [4], and getting better results. Open-source software and Wiki projects form an even more compelling illustration. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence#Spontaneous_order


Anger, hatred, and bitterness can be easily explained by Evolution Theory. They serve to further an individuals success in the intense competition called life.

PastorAIO:


We all have a survival instinct. Yet there are people who commit suicide.

Just because you have a few people doing something doesn't mean that Evolution hasn't by and large favoured the opposite.


ps. have you any word on Abraham's incestuous relationship with Sarai, his wife? Or Jacob's with Leah and Rebekah?

You mean Jacob committed incest with his wives?

Sarai was not Abram's mother's daughter. Good try at grapping straws.

Ranchhoddas:
I do not support incest.

Your adverse reaction to incest is subjective isn't it. Could it be a carryover of your theistic upbringing.

Atheistically, incest is acceptible as long as the conditions of consensuality, adulthood and not hurting anyone are met.

shadeyinka:

Ps14:1 Says who a true fool is!

I'm sure you got the point.

availableisme:


Civility is a word you need to study.

You will do well to teach that to yourself and your fellows, who are fixated in your very fashion.

availableisme:


Is Sexual Immorality encouraged or a Sin in the Bible? If yes can you say a Christian who commits it is still a Christian?

But Biblical Patriarchs were all incestuous.

shadeyinka:

Your adverse reaction to incest is subjective isn't it. Could it be a carryover of your theistic upbringing.

Atheistically, incest is acceptible as long as the conditions of consensuality, adulthood and not hurting anyone are met.

There are incestuous atheists as well as theists. If you became atheist today, would you start engaging in incestuous behaviour? Why or why not?

felixomor:
Nice line of thought.

Its just a proof that last last, man will always return to worship something (as someone said)

If you dont worship God,
You will worship animals,
If you dont worship animals,
You will later worship yourself
And if you worship yourself, you will later worship the government.
Who worships the government will later worship the antichrist.
Who is the antichrist?
The devil .

There are no middle grounds.

Atheists to me are just Rebranded Hypies of the 70. This time around, the rebellion isntbagainst the society but against God Himself.

Full atheism will leadbtoba society that will self destruct

Ranchhoddas:
Please what percentage of the world's population are these 'evidences'?

People have committed mass suicide : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_suicide

And millions have committed suicide within a very short period of time : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

As far as there is exception even if it is just one , it renders your argument invalid .

PastorAIO:



Anger, hatred, and bitterness can be easily explained by Evolution Theory. They serve to further an individuals success in the intense competition called life.

All are assumptions . Anything about emotions in evolution is based on assumptions .

What about embarrassment , shame and feeling humiliated , they didn't make the cut ?

hopefulLandlord:


tell me why Paedophilia is not OK using quotes from your Bible

tell me where your god abolished slavery in the bible

tell me the punishment for raping virgins according to your Bible

societal laws sheets on any divine law

See you!
As usual, they want to change topic!

Open your own thread and ask the questions.

But answer this first.
Just picking sexual orientations and specifically incest, what does atheism have to offer the planet earth?

Chaos?