dalaman:


I found this link very interesting. Even from the link it cam be seen that most of what we have been saying about the bible is true. So the exodus story that appears inside the bible was written 400 years apart from very different sources . The person clearly admitted that part of the story was just made up. He claims the biblical number of 600k men is not true or historical. That is why I love the Jews they don't tell lies like christians. Rabbi Boteach also said that the creation stories in Genesis 1 and 2 are 200 years apart. The story in Genesis 2 was written 200 years before the story in Genesis one. Some American christian apologist that doesn't know a word in Hebrew and knows nothing about Hebrew history will publish books telling you that Moses wrote genesis and the Exodus. I disagree with a lot of what the guy wrote but I found the interview very interesting.

Yeah , the interview is really interesting . You'll hear the truth from the Jews because its their book and language . Not that the Christians tell lies , its more like misinformation due to false translations .

But the guy is not a Jew oo . He is a bible scholar who has studied the Jewish culture for a long long time .

Seun's story is false . Its obvious . He must have read in an atheist site I think .

Its funny how you atheists don't get critical or skeptical about anything that denigrates God or supports your wish .

Nairaland Atheist thinking

Does it discredit Christianity and God ?

Yes

Therefore , it must be true

KingEbukasBlog:


Seun , how about responding to these four arguments . I'm sure you are aware of them than always trying to limit God to religion because it enables you to attack or assume God as false.

On Twitter , I don't even focus on the bible or religion . Its strictly based on these four arguments .

Why are you afraid of focusing on the bible. Is it because you know that the bible is false? The Kalam cosmological argument was first put forth by a muslim in support of Allah and not some obsured God. How does the cosmological argument prove that God sacrificed himself to save humanity from himself in the person of Jesus?

You guys have started running away from your Gods as protrayed in your religious books and have started embracing the deist idea that has no identity, form or shape. You are now embracing some virtual God instead of the traditional God since you know that it is fake.

You guys are jokers. That is what your father William Craig does. He tries to play football without the ball. He claims he is going to show that the evidence supports the existence of God and by God he means the God of the bible but he'll tell you he is also not going to discuss the bible in his debates. He is just going to dwell on this points that you listed. During the course of the debates he's sometimes forced to defend the bible and he drops very outlandish statements.

During his debate with Eddy Tabash he was forced to talk about the old Testament atrocities as part of His moral arguments and his response was that God did not tell the Jews to write most of those things they wrote inside the bible. He said maybe they made it all up and said God told them to write it. But this is the same person that belongs to an evangelical group that claims that the bible is the inerrant word of God.

The games you guys always play. Defend the God you are talking about which is the God of the bible, you guys won't. Instead you'll go about defending some virtual God concept that is not even the one you believe in. That is why I truly respect muslims and YEC.

dalaman:


Why are you afraid of focusing on the bible. Is it because you know that the bible is false? The Kalam cosmological argument was first put forth by a muslim in support of Allah and not some obsured God. How does the cosmological argument prove that God sacrificed himself to save humanity from himself in the person of Jesus?

You guys have started running away from your Gods as protrayed in your religious books and have started embracing the deist idea that has no identity, form or shape. You are now embracing some virtual God instead of the traditional God since you know that it is fake.

You guys are jokers. That is what your father William Craig does. He tries to play football without the ball. He claims he is going to show that the evidence supports the existence of God and by God he means the God of the bible but he'll tell you he is also not going to discuss the bible in his debates. He is just going to dwell on this points that you listed. During the course of the debates he's sometimes forced to defend the bible and he drops very outlandish statements.

During his debate with Eddy Tabash he was forced to talk about the old Testament atrocities as part of His moral arguments and his response was that God did not tell the Jews to write most of those things they wrote inside the bible. He said maybe they made it all up and said God told them to write it. But this is the same person that belongs to an evangelical group that claims that the bible is the inerrant word of God.

The games you guys always play. Defend the God you are talking about which is the God of the bible, you guys won't. Instead you'll go about defending some virtual God concept that is not even the one you believe in. That is why I truly respect muslims and YEC.

Well, because God is outside religion . Not everyone sees the bible as the word of God or inerrant . Even so many Christians take the bible as an allegory , the entire bible .

But the basic principles of Christianity still stand

*Creation was made by God

*God is three consubstansial hypothases

*Salvation through Christ is the key to eternal life

There could be more but I can't think of more - I'm just worn to a frazzle .


Not everyone is concerned about what the Hebrews did or what they faced . Its only during debates these issues are brought up . They don't affect God's existence .

Atheists know that they can't stand those 4 superior arguments that's why they attempt to limit God to religion .

KingEbukasBlog:


Yeah , the interview is really interesting . You'll hear the truth from the Jews because its their book and language . Not that the Christians tell lies , its more like misinformation due to false translations .

Christians tell a lot of lies when it concerns the bible. That's why the Jews are always laughing at them. Listen to people like Rabbi Wolpe. These are professors of Hebrew language and history. They will tell you clearly that the exodus is non history. Some American christian that doesn'tknow a word in Hebrew will publish a book telling you that archeologist found some chariots believed to be that of the Egyptians in the red Sea, when the reality is that no body even knows which side of the red Sea Moses and the Israelites followed during the exodus accroding to the bible. Jewish rabbis will tell you that there is no way Moses could have writtenanything inside the bible because some parts of exodus as a book was written on proto Hebrew which is a Canaanite language. The writing styles differ a lot. Some parts of the book of exodus was written down like 600 years before any part of Genesis was ever written down. But crazy American christian apologist will insist and formulate ridiculous theories as to why Moses must be the authour of the first five books of the bible.

But the guy is not a Jew oo . He is a bible scholar who has studied the Jewish culture for a long long time .

Seun's story is false . Its obvious . He must have read in an atheist site I think .

Its funny how you atheists don't get critical or skeptical about anything that denigrates God or supports your wish .

Nairaland Atheist thinking

Does it discredit Christianity and God ?

Yes

Therefore , it must be true

Seun's story is not completely false. It is party true. Israel Frankenstein a professor of Archaeology and Jewish history who is also a Jew himself also supports part of what Seun wrote down. The early Hebrews were polytheist who had their roots in Canaan. El is the Canaanite God. Elohim the plural of El appears so many times inside the bible. El, Baal,Yahweh, we're all different Gods the early Hebrews worshipped but they later setteled for one. The bible still has traces of all this. The English bible is nonsense. Most of all.these things are lost in translation.

dalaman:



Seun's story is not completely false. It is party true. Israel Frankenstein a professor of Archaeology and Jewish history who is also a Jew himself also supports part of what Seun wrote down. The early Hebrews were polytheist who had their roots in Canaan. El is the Canaanite God. Elohim the plural of El appears so many times inside the bible. El, Baal,Yahweh, we're all different Gods the early Hebrews worshipped but they later setteled for one. The bible still has traces of all this. The English bible is nonsense. Most of all.these things are lost in translation.

El and Yahweh were the same God not different Gods . The Levites worshipped the God Yahweh, while the Israelite tribes worshipped the God of Canaan: El. Once the Levites arrived on the scene, the tribes needed to make a decision as to which God they would worship Yahweh or El. They could have decided to worship both, in the manner of the pagan peoples around them who worshipped more than one god. They could have developed a mythology in which Yahweh was the son of El, or El the son of Yahweh, just as the pagans did when they said that Ba’al was the son of El. Alternatively, they could have decided to worship only El or only Yahweh. Instead, the tribes decided that El and Yahweh were one, in essence saying, “the same God by a different name.”

http://www.reformjudaism.org/exodus-not-fiction

dalaman:


Christians tell a lot of lies when it concerns the bible. That's why the Jews are always laughing at them. Listen to people like Rabbi Wolpe. These are professors of Hebrew language and history. They will tell you clearly that the exodus is non history. Some American christian that doesn'tknow a word in Hebrew will publish a book telling you that archeologist found some chariots believed to be that of the Egyptians in the red Sea, when the reality is that no body even knows which side of the red Sea Moses and the Israelites followed during the exodus accroding to the bible. Jewish rabbis will tell you that there is no way Moses could have writtenanything inside the bible because some parts of exodus as a book was written on proto Hebrew which is a Canaanite language. The writing styles differ a lot. Some parts of the book of exodus was written down like 600 years before any part of Genesis was ever written down. But crazy American christian apologist will insist and formulate ridiculous theories as to why Moses must be the authour of the first five books of the bible.

How can you insist on one perspective simply because it supports your view ? There others that agree that the Exodus actually happened . Why don't you scrutinize their claims . There are also different Christian apologists who say the Exodus is an allegory . Stop trying to make Christians look bad by discrediting American apologists . Most American Christian Apologists are cognizant of Jewish History or must you be a Jew to understand a particular facet of history ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Well, because God is outside religion . Not everyone sees the bible as the word of God or inerrant . Even so many Christians take the bible as an allegory , the entire bible .

Which God is outside religion? The virtual God you just created in your head abi? Gods can not exist outside religion because religions gave birth to the Gods at least the Gods of theism. Allah can not exist outside Islam because the Koran says Allah has chosena religion for humanity and the religion is Islam. So how can Allahexist outside Islam? Even Jesus can not exist outside christianity because followers of Jesus are to act like him according to the tradition based on some principles.

But the basic principles of Christianity still stand

*Creation was made by God

*God is three consubstansial hypothases

*Salvation through Christ is the key to eternal life

There could be more but I can't think of more - I'm just worn to a frazzle .


Not everyone is concerned about what the Hebrews did or what they faced . Its only during debates these issues are brought up . They don't affect God's existence .

Atheists know that they can't stand those 4 superior arguments that's why they attempt to limit God to religion .

Everything written inside the bible matters when it comes to the Christian idea of God. It is a fact regardless of how much you disagree.

Those arguments are not superior arguments. They have been debunked already. I alone have debunked the moral argument.

KingEbukasBlog:


El and Yahweh were the same God not different Gods . The Levites worshipped the God Yahweh, while the Israelite tribes worshipped the God of Canaan: El. Once the Levites arrived on the scene, the tribes needed to make a decision as to which God they would worship Yahweh or El. They could have decided to worship both, in the manner of the pagan peoples around them who worshipped more than one god. They could have developed a mythology in which Yahweh was the son of El, or El the son of Yahweh, just as the pagans did when they said that Ba’al was the son of El. Alternatively, they could have decided to worship only El or only Yahweh. Instead, the tribes decided that El and Yahweh were one, in essence saying, “the same God by a different name.”

http://www.reformjudaism.org/exodus-not-fiction

Cant you see the difference in the first sentence? The early Israelites worshipped the God of Canaan while the levites worship Yahweh. Is it not the same bible that warned the people never to worship the Canaanite God? What are you saying?

dalaman:


Which God is outside religion? The virtual God you just created in your head abi? Gods can not exist outside religion because religions gave birth to the Gods at least the Gods of theism. Allah can not exist outside Islam because the Koran says Allah has chosena religion for humanity and the religion is Islam. So how can Allahexist outside Islam? Even Jesus can not exist outside christianity because followers of Jesus are to act like him according to the tradition based on some principles.

I'm already tired of repeating myself . One God different concepts in different religions and philosophical positions .

Those arguments are not superior arguments. They have been debunked already. I alone have debunked the moral argument.

Lol . Who debunked what arguments You debunked the moral argument ?

There is no tenable argument whatsoever against those 4 arguments . They still stand . There are others too .

I think you should watch Christian apologists defend these 4 arguments . No atheist whatsoever have debunked anything

Please a universe that created itself is a stupid theory that exposes the foolishness of atheists .

Infinite chains of causes cannot explain anything . Its a foolish escape route by atheists .

dalaman:


Can you see the difference in the first sentence? The early Israelites worshipped the God of Canaan while the levites worship Yahweh. Is it not the same bible that warned the people never to worship the Canaanite God? What are you saying?

The Levites worshiped the God Yahweh, while the Israelite tribes worshipped the God of Canaan: El. The 'God of Canaan' here is the God that that the Israelite tribes in Canaan worshiped as their own God , El .

Then when the Levites arrived they reached a consensus that it is the Same God but with different names .

Exodus 6:2–3
I revealed myself to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as Ēl Shaddāi, but was not known to them by my name, Yahweh.

KingEbukasBlog:


I'm already tired of repeating myself . One God different concepts in different religions and philosophical positions

That's because what you are saying is completely not true. It has no basis in reality.

Lol . Who debunked what arguments You debunked the moral argument ?

There is no tenable argument whatsoever against those 4 arguments . They still stand . There are others too .

I think you should watch Christian apologists defend these 4 arguments . No atheist whatsoever have debunked anything

Please a universe that created itself is a stupid theory that exposes the foolishness of atheists .

Infinite chains of causes cannot explain anything . Its foolish escape route by atheists .

State the moral argument let me debunk it in 10 mins

https://www.nairaland.com/501927/evolution-yahweh-god-jews

This link will help.

dalaman:


That's because what you are saying is completely not true. It has no basis on reality.

Its your opinion .

For me , it was easy to understand . I actually discovered it myself before I read that people shared the same view with me .

dalaman:
State the moral argument let me debunk it in 10 mins

1. If God does not exist , objective moral values and duties do not exist

2. Objective moral values and duties do exist

3. Therefore, God exists

And please if Moral relativism is your rebuttal don't bother to respond bro

dalaman:
https://www.nairaland.com/501927/evolution-yahweh-god-jews

This link will help.

Exodus 6:2–3
I revealed myself to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as Ēl Shaddāi, but was not known to them by my name, Yahweh.

Na the same bible talk am

Scholars have told you what it is , yet you are fixated on that particular perspective because it supports your view . Why not scrutinize that perspective alongside other perspectives ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Its your opinion .

For me , it was easy to understand . I actually discovered it myself because I read that people shared the same view with me .

How is Allah the same with Yahweh? How us Allah the same with Brahma? You just keep repeating things that are not true. These Gods do not even have the same attributes so how are they the same? Tell me. Telling me that that is what you feel is not a valid point.

1. If God does not exist , objective moral values and duties do not exist

Objective moral values and duties do not exist so God does not exist.

2. Objective moral values and duties do exist

Its a lie they don't.

3. Therefore, God exists

Objective moral values and duties do not exist. Morality is a human creationand concept. All moral codes of conduct are man made that is why morality varies from place to place and within period in history. Morality must be learned. It is not set in stone and is always evolving. Humans must teach themselves morality, fine tune it and accep it based on many factors. Objective morality does not exist anywhere since morality is a man made creation. Let me give you a good example. We can use the muslims endearment to sharia law. According to about 2 billion muslims the sharia is the most objective moral system in the world that was passed down by the creator of the universe himself unto mankind and as such there is no moral system better than it. Is the sharia system objective to you? Who created the sharia system? Your answer to these questions are needed. Answer them and don't run away from it pls.

And please if Moral relativism is your rebuttal don't bother to respond bro

You dishonestly want me not to debunk the trash you have up there with that copout.

KingEbukasBlog:


Exodus 6:2–3
I revealed myself to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as Ēl Shaddāi, but was not known to them by my name, Yahweh.

Na the same bible talk am

Scholars have told you what it is , yet you are fixated on that particular perspective because it supports your view . Why not scrutinize that perspective alongside other perspectives ?

The bible was a work in progress. The different writers with their different perspectives and views of God all came up and edited or formed the bible to suit their ideas and beliefs about what ever God they had in mind. Remember that even the exodus story as it appears in the bible was written in a span of 400 years according to the scholar you alluded to. These stories were written, re-written and edited.Then we have the English version to read where most things are lost in translation. You are also right that other perspectives should be scrutinized.

dalaman:


How is Allah the same with Yahweh? How us Allah the same with Brahma? You just keep repeating things that are not true. These Gods do not even have the same attributes so how are they the same? Tell me. Telling me that that is what you feel is not a valid point.



Objective moral values and duties do not exist so God does not exist.


Its a lie they don't.


Objective moral values and duties do not exist. Morality is a human creationand concept. All moral codes of conduct are man made that is why morality varies from place to place and within period in history. Morality must be learned. It is not set in stone and is always evolving. Humans must teach themselves morality, fine tune it and accep it based on many factors. Objective morality does not exist anywhere since morality is a man made creation. Let me give you a good example. We can use the muslims endearment to sharia law. According to about 2 billion muslims the sharia is the most objective moral system in the world that was passed down by the creator of the universe himself unto mankind and as such there is no moral system better than it. Is the sharia system objective to you? Who created the sharia system? Your answer to these questions are needed. Answer them and don't run away from it pls.



You dishonestly want me not to debunk the trash you have up there with that copout.

Is that all ? . Please be sure that is all

If that is all , then let's open a new in the morning and discuss the moral argument

KingEbukasBlog:


Is that all ? . Please be sure that is all

If that is all , then let's open a new in the morning and discuss the moral argument

Yes just a little addition. The reason why morality is subjective is because there is no common moral law that ALL humans agree to. Morality is a man-made concept that is defined by the society you live in; it is subjective. The multiplication table for example is objective. 5×5 is 25 all over the world and all humans agree with that. It is objective, same can not be said of morality.

We continue tomorrow.

The Subject is neither Science nor Arts but a combination of both in Pneumatology. The real idea is, One Single God created ALL OF US. How many GODS have you and I created?

KingEbukasBlog:


Yup .

That's why deism rejects religious concepts (revealed theology) . Because it seems conflicting . Everyone is now ascribing any personal attribute he/she wishes to God in the name of divine revelation .

But the mistake is , deism fails to consider the necessity of a personal God that has the power or authority and will to divinely reveal itself to man .

Not every type of deism rejects personal God though some types accept a personal God .

Why must be personal God who gives a dime about man? What if mankind was/is not in its direct plans?

SHALOM!

There are three categories of Human Awareness:

THE FIRST ATTENTION: The baseline Awareness of the average, weak-minded Human, who is only aware of what their physical senses- the 55 perceptics (see: SCIENTOLOGY 0-8: THE BOOK OF BASICS, by L. Ron Hubbard,) perceive, and this limits what they can imagine to exist. This is about 2% of what exists.

THE SECOND ATTENTION:The awareness of people who have more Spiritual Energy than the average Human, which is 1% of what it should be. This awareness manifests as increased Spiritual/Mental Ability, and has five categories, namely:

1. TOTAL RECALL.
2. EXTRASENSORY PERCEPTION.
3. TELEKINESIS.
4. TELEPORTATION.
5. TRANSLATION.

Few Humans ever knowingy encounter people who have these abilities in their lifetime.

Even less ever attain them.

Whereas it is possible with these abilities to prolong one's life indefinitely, such people are still susceptible to death, which limits the amount of Knowledge they can attain.

THE THIRD ATTENTION:

Beyond TRANSLATION (which is the ability to Teleport between Universes,) is EVERLASTING LIFE.

It is attained once one has exceeded 50% Spiritual Energy restoration- PROVIDED ONE HAS ATTAINED THE NECESSARY SPIRITUAL RESILIENCY TO WITHSTAND THE SUDDEN REPLENISHMENT OF ONE'S ENERGY RESERVE FROM 50% to 100% in an instant. If not, one will be KILLED instantly, when one's "Soul Body" ruptures.

In SECOND ATTENTION one can perceive the FUNDAMENTAL COMPONENTS of Creation, and perceive the SPIRITUAL ENERGY FLOWS into all Living Things and Non-Living Things. (See: THE FIRE FROM WITHIN, by Carlos Castaneda.)

All Creation does not have the same Spiritual Components- which, to the category of Seers who have reported this, are perceived as Fibres of Living Light, each indicative of a specific Command. They never occur in isolation, but in association with other "fibres," called bundles. These bundles have containers- rigid ones for non-living things, and flexible ones for living things. Things and Beings are identified by the contents of their containers.

It is not possible for Entities to interact, unless their containers have components in common.

For such interactions to take place, these fibre-type components must be active at the same time.

Therefore, to perceive any Object or Entity, we must have fibres in common with them, and they must be active in us and them.

Those in FIRST ATTENTION have a particular category of fibres active in them- imagine, if you will, that the Soul Body is like a WHOLE COCONUT, whose fibres extend all the wat to its centre? Suppose you drew a line bisecting said Coconut from top to bottom. If you turn this bisected Coconut transversely, so that the line runs over the top, and down the left side to the base, then up again from the base along the right side to the top of the Coconut... the fibres between those two lines are those we have the potential to use for perception.

If you wet your thumb in some penetrating fluid- imagine it were ink- and made a thumbprint two thirds up to the top on the right-side line, the firbres that would be affected by the ink would represent the fibres a FIRST ATTENTION average person uses for perception. These fibres oertsin to Objects and Entities all Humans agree upon as existing.

The ink-stain represents the Conscious Awareness of the Mind of the First Attention person.

If this ink-stain moves even slightly, a whole New Reality opens up to that Mind- new things they never knew existed will be oerceived- but some of the old things they used to perceive will be forgotten. This affects both mind AND body. For instance, to give an extreme example, a prisoner in a jail could "forget" that Concrete Walls and Iron Bars are Solid, and just walk out of their confinement. To use a "mundane" an Engineer could "forget" that certain technological barriers exist- and invent something no one else has ever thought of before. These things happen all the time.

It "costs" Spiritual Energy to move the position of one's mind in the fibre matrix of the Soul Body- if it is moved by force, injury and death can result, if the force does not impart Spiritual Energy that one's mind is capable of receiving.

Therefore, Direct Perception of God is lethal to someone who has not attained THIRD ATTENTION.

Even attempting to understand God can destroy the Mind of someone limited to FIRST ATTENTION.

That should not need to be argued, because Christianity is the great example of that.

Christians generally consist of Cowards, rightfully afraid to try to know God, and people who arrigantly tried to know God, without following the necessary Soul-Building Guidelines, and so ended up hopelessly insane, not knowing what they are doing, or are talking about, blinded by God's Glory.

You are a religious skeptic or atheist, yet sound so hypocritical and confused on other issues particularly or politics, crime, and education.