It doesn't answer my question, tell me what the figures say. and don't your SE brethren claim to be almost at par with the SW peeps in Lagos population terms?

it seems you have a little issue with paying attention to details, as well as making flawed arguments

so 100 students sent packing 'makes a difference'?? what difference is that if I may ask? and like I said since its your SE brethren that keep getting

admitted most over the 'several years' as you said, then it also makes sense that they make up the majority of the cultists expelled from the school.

debosky:

define what you mean by 'several years' mr x, your argument is still flawed - populations of the two regions need to be specified

before any concrete conclusions can be made, let me give an example:

what if out of say 20million from the SW 23,000 go to uni, and out of 50million in the SE 42,000 go to uni, who is the disadvantaged group?

having more numbers doesn't necessarily mean you have an advantage dude, simple reasoning should tell you that.

did you bother to click on the JAMB admissions statistics provided.
The numbers are actual raw numbers.
I'm still struggling to follow your argument.
do you doubt the JAMB stats?

I am obviously not contesting JAMB numbers, as I said at the end of my first post on this matter

the crux of my argument, is that based on sheer numbers the SE leads currently - cumulative data will be needed to make any

overall conclusions - the broad term 'several years' means nothing quantitatively

but based on proportion of the population educated? the jury is still out on that, and that was the purpose of my analogy -

if 15% of 20million is educated compared with 10% of 50million, which group would actually be more educated?

simple lines of reasoning really, if you'll take the time to digest them properly

Is is not possible for anyone to answer your question on the actual population of say Imo indigenes in Nigeria since they are scattered throughout the nation and the current census figures did not ask questions on ethnicity,it merely told us how many people residing in that state.

That said,it is not disputed that Imo is not comparable in size to Lagos or Ogun state,the earlier statistics on primary education may give you an idea

The Jamb figures are so reliable because any Imo indigene would state so on his application even if he had been counted as a Lagos state inhabitant during the census.

The UME application stats to me makes a nonsense of the myth that Igbo boys are only interested in selling spare parts and shoes.
And confirms that one can have a store in obalende and still want to go to school.

As I have said twice now, I do not dispute JAMB statistics!

I distrust the population data as much as the next guy, and the same reason given that Imo indigenes are 'scattered throughout the federation'

including Lagos and Ogun, is the same reason why it is plausible that the population of SE 'indigenes' in the whole country could be greater than those
of the SW, leaving the question of those going to school in proportion to the total population in question.

@ xtycod no one debates the lead over the 'several years' in sheer number, but proportion of educated people will be needed for a final conclusion, so hold on to your QED for a while longer, it also does not prove any 'disadvantage' as you crassly said, unless you have data that shows that the
SW had historically higher numbers than these other states, also keeping in mind that till the gowon era, delta+edo (bendel/Midwest region) were
included in the SW, so those figures for Edo and delta would've been included for the region

Kaura Namoda Poly in the middle of nowhere in Zamfara state, is more 'rustic' and 'outlandish' than Ado, yet it has an Igbo student population larger

than the hausas + yorubas combined, (I served there in '05) so what proof do I have that most of those Ado students aren't Igbo? I'm just saying this
to point out the flawed nature of your statements, dont go making broad assertions with no proof to back them up.

@ babyosisi, the proportion of igbo boys going to school will still be the final determinant of that

As I have said twice now, I do not dispute JAMB statistics!

I distrust the population data as much as the next guy, and the same reason given that Imo indigenes are 'scattered throughout the federation'

including Lagos and Ogun, is the same reason why it is plausible that the population of SE 'indigenes' in the whole country could be greater than those
of the SW, leaving the question of those going to school in proportion to the total population in question.

While this may be correct, until a true census is done we have to make do with the present one, though flawed. I Personally believe that the Igbo is the single most populous people in Nigeria. Sex admission statistics is also available from JAMB. Male Igbos are doing as well as their female counterpart.

On the other hand, is it possible that the south west has reduced higher school attandance rate over the years?

debosky:

As I have said twice now, I do not dispute JAMB statistics!

I distrust the population data as much as the next guy, and the same reason given that Imo indigenes are 'scattered throughout the federation'

including Lagos and Ogun, is the same reason why it is plausible that the population of SE 'indigenes' in the whole country could be greater than those
of the SW, leaving the question of those going to school in proportion to the total population in question.

@ xtycod no one debates the lead over the 'several years' in sheer number, but proportion of educated people will be needed for a final conclusion, so hold on to your QED for a while longer, it also does not prove any 'disadvantage' as you crassly said, unless you have data that shows that the
SW had historically higher numbers than these other states, also keeping in mind that till the gowon era, delta+edo (bendel/Midwest region) were
included in the SW, so those figures for Edo and delta would've been included for the region

Kaura Namoda Poly in the middle of nowhere in Zamfara state, is more 'rustic' and 'outlandish' than Ado, yet it has an Igbo student population larger

than the hausas + yorubas combined, (I served there in '05) so what proof do I have that most of those Ado students aren't Igbo? I'm just saying this
to point out the flawed nature of your statements, don't go making broad assertions with no proof to back them up.

@ babyosisi, the proportion of igbo boys going to school will still be the final determinant of that

If you have that mystery figure please give it to us,otherwise we just go by what we know
Remember we are not talking SE but specific states example IMO is said to consistently have the highest number unles you're claiming that somehow Imo is more populated than Ogun and than most South easterners are Imo

debosky:

As I have said twice now, I do not dispute JAMB statistics!


@ babyosisi, the proportion of igbo boys going to school will still be the final determinant of that

that too is available on the same links

SW had historically higher numbers than these other states, also keeping in mind that till the gowon era, delta+edo (bendel/Midwest region) were
included in the SW, so those figures for Edo and delta would've been included for the region

Another blatant lies. The midwest was created before Gowon, precisely around the regime of Balewa. Did you study some contemporary Nigerian history?

The JAMB records are only 7 years old. Gowon matter is more than 30 years ago.

Also take into account the Igbo indigenous population in Rivers and Delta.

the proportion I was referring to was the one between the total igbo male population and the number going to school, that is not available

Imo could be more populous that Ogun, I have no statistics on that, so that is open to debate

In my own opinion, without population data, no actual claims can be made as to the 'most educated' Nigerians; much smaller countries such as

Israel and Singapore have a fraction of our admission figures, but still would be more educated than Nigeria, because a higher proportion of

the population is educated. that, my dear babyosisi, is the crux of my argument.

I have no qualms about the dominant number from Imo, that is fact, but it just leads me to further distrust the population figures given from the last census

and on this note, I rest

@ docok I apologise if I erred in the exact creation of the midwest, but their progress in education etc was directly traceable to the policies implemented when they were part of the Western Region.
you should also take not of yoruba populations in Kogi and Kwara

TerraCotta,

Do you know how to read? You made a number of untrue statements, one of which is that Edo state is number two after Imo in university admission. That is totally incorrect.

Insults are the refuge of small minds, Docokwy. It should be clear to you that I know how to read and write. If you're going to insult me, at least go for something that makes sense. Question my intelligence or reach for a cheap joke about my family or my ethnicity or something---this kind of "do you know how to read" crap is beneath someone of your age.

On to your claim--I never said Edo state is number two after Imo in university admission. They are number two in the number of candidates seeking admission, which are the figures I was referring to. I'd make a cheap joke about your reading comprehension skills here, but I like to think I'm above petty crap like that .

I'll admit that I didn't note the difference between admission and acceptance statistics--frankly, I wasn't paying that much attention. As I said in my first post, I think the JAMB statistics are pretty clear that the South East leads in producing candidates, if you want to rely on those figures. That's not really in dispute. Someone else (Kobesosimi) pointed out the obvious flaws in relying exclusively on JAMB figures at the beginning of this discussion. I also pointed out that if the UNESCO numbers can be criticized for not "adjusting for population percentage" or whatever, then so can the JAMB statistics. Any of the South-South states with high numbers of JAMB candidates (Akwa Ibom, Edo, and Delta come to mind) might well produce the highest percentage of admitted uni students if you compared such figures. That was my response to 4Play--I'm not surprised that you conveniently forgot to reply to that point.

If you make a painstaking effort to study the available data, then there is no doubt who are the most educated. Moreover, secondary education (which data from UNICEF you are flaunting; and which is flawed because it is not state-of-origin based) as it is currently in Nigeria, can hardly be said to make one educated. University and Polytechnic education therefore are the most basic ways to assess educational attainment in Nigeria at the moment.

According to your JAMB criteria, which does not tell me how many of these students actually graduate from uni, pursue advanced degrees, pursue degrees in which discipline etc. etc. I'm sure you know all this and refuse to be honest about it, which is why I won't be bothering myself with this discussion any more. It makes no difference to me if the South East produces the most admitted students in Nigerian universities according to JAMB--it's actually a cause for celebration, since people from that region feel marginalized and this turn of events might be helpful in curing that.

Donzman--I'm a little embarrassed for you. It seems that your vocabulary's a little shoddy and you're intimidated by "big words". Everyone else in this discussion seemed to understand my post just fine, so get a dictionary and look up whatever words seem to be troubling you. Then add something useful to the discussion and I'll think about responding. Adios until then.

debosky:

the proportion I was referring to was the one between the total igbo male population and the number going to school, that is not available

Imo could be more populous that Ogun, I have no statistics on that, so that is open to debate

In my own opinion, without population data, no actual claims can be made as to the 'most educated' Nigerians; much smaller countries such as

Israel and Singapore have a fraction of our admission figures, but still would be more educated than Nigeria, because a higher proportion of

the population is educated. that, my dear babyosisi, is the crux of my argument.

I have no qualms about the dominant number from Imo, that is fact, but it just leads me to further distrust the population figures given from the last census

and on this note, I rest

@ docok I apologise if I erred in the exact creation of the midwest, but their progress in education etc was directly traceable to the policies implemented when they were part of the Western Region.
you should also take not of yoruba populations in Kogi and Kwara

OK Igbos could be more in number than Yorubas.
Lets all agree if that makes some people happy
majority of the 9.3 million counted in Kano and 9 Mil in Lagos state were from Owerri and and Orlu.

The midwest was carved out of the west in 1964. Gowon came to power in 1967. Those dates are like ages ago. Has nothing to do with the current JAMB situation. Igbo win. 


BTW, more SE candidates are willing to go to school, but there are simply no places for them. The current educational system in Nigeria is bull.

With computers today,it is very possible to get a true estimate of Nigerian population figures by state of origin ,we know the percentage of blacks in America,average number of Nigerians in Houston and mexican illegals,and our dear country cannot even conduct a census without us shouting foul.

According to your JAMB criteria, which does not tell me how many of these students actually graduate from uni, pursue advanced degrees, pursue degrees in which discipline etc. etc. I'm sure you know all this and refuse to be honest about it, which is why I won't be bothering myself with this discussion any more. It makes no difference to me if the South East produces the most admitted students in Nigerian universities according to JAMB--it's actually a cause for celebration, since people from that region feel marginalized and this turn of events might be helpful in curing that.

TerraCotta,

Sorry about the ''you know how to read?'' joke. It was indeed a joke. Again, the JAMB data mentioned the courses of study and the number of applicants to each course. And, as the name implies JAMB is for admission and not for GRADUATION. The JAMB data needs no adjustment for population. JAMB forms are filled based on state-or-origin. So, with that the population adjustment has been made naturally.

I am currently following a PhD study in Europe and I must admit that many of the students (for MSc and PhD) that I know here are either Igbo or Yoruba, and a sprinkling of Edo.

@ babyosisi,
thanks. Yeah my mom is igbo and to be frank she's about one of the most intelligent women i have come across. Funny enough i get most of my style of speaking and approach to issues from my dad who is yoruba through and through. I dont think "tribe" is a major deciding factor in who is more educated or not though one cannot say the same for the typical hausa/fulani - culture maybe?

my dad married my mom not based on her tribe or how smart she was but because they both felt they were right for each other. Most of his friends thought he was crazy. Unfortunately having spent all my life in yorubaland, i tend to associate more with yoruba than igbo chics, i havent seen a huge difference btw them.

In terms of education, i think it is fair to say yoruba's are the most educated Nigerians for a fact! JAMB admission statistics cannot be used as a correct estimate of how educated our population is. Besides we have not accounted for the fact that not all who get in finish anyway.
Yoruba's can be grateful for western free education in the '60s.

What makes you come that conclusion?
Free education helped Yorubas no doubt but things have changed a whole lot since the sixties.

Igbos in the late sixties and early seventies were nursing wounds from the civil war but we've since moved on from that

Most of the exam malpractices in Nigeria are conducted by the Yoruba. While the Igbo are busy studying and doing international and local business, the Yoruba are busy driving taxi and molue all over town. They are busy creating area boys and agberos all over the place. They are busy writing and speaking fake ''Oyibo'' with their funny accent. They are busy looting the country in the most Yorubasanjonised way possible. The Igbo are the most educated, followed by my people of the Niger Delta. A short survey of the level of English language skills here will give a clue to my infallible claim.

Yoruba ko, Yoruba ni.

someone help this boy nurse his own wounds.

The only reason why igbos would have recovered from the civil war to suddenly overtake the yoruba as the most educated nigerians would be if the yorubas collectively decided as a group to quit school. it hasnt happened yet.
The JAMB statistics does not prove anything afterall we cant even accurately count ourselves.

I support the JAMB results.
Obviously there is going to be some deviation,
But the numbers are so overwhelming,
How could we possibly start counting the nigerians in the diaspora?

JAMB tells us how many bought exam forms it does not say how many "wrote" the exams, it does not say how many actually passed, does not tell us how many are admitted neither does it give us any idea on how many eventually manage to see their education through.

How do we define education here?
Do we mean Western education, african education or religious education (etc)?

What criteria are being used for assessment?
Completion of kindergaren, medium and high school, undergraduate, postgraduate, post-doctorate (etc)?

davidylan:


In terms of education, i think it is fair to say yoruba's are the most educated Nigerians for a fact! JAMB admission statistics cannot be used as a correct estimate of how educated our population is. Besides we have not accounted for the fact that not all who get in finish anyway.
Yoruba's can be grateful for western free education in the '60s.

During my NYSC in Ogbomoso, we paid a visit to the Sohu (the younger one) who lamented the high-school dropout rate in the oyo state. He cited the example of the east as a region where there is presently education boom. The guy is educated and he is known for his strong passion for education. His message has always been to appeal to youths to go to school.

What am I then saying? Education is nobody's exclusive reserve. It is available to all those who can afford it (I mean the western type). The SE is doing extremely well while the SW is not lagging either. But the gospel is this: in this present time, the SE is no longer 2nd to SW in terms of access to western education. I have had the opportunity to transversed almost every zone in nigeria. I studied in the east and north, and my NYSC was in the west.

Instead of fighting over who's the most educated, let us continue to encourage our younger ones to go to school, not to add to our state or regional profile in JAMB website, but to get them equipped for the 21 century.

Free education of the 60's was in the last millennium. This is 2007 and there is no scholarship in nigeria any longer.

azorjiu:

Free education of the 60's was in the last millennium. This is 2007 and there is no scholarship in nigeria any longer.

It was good enough to lay a solid foundation that had we been spared the leprous governments of northern Nigeria would have catapulted us to the level of the likes of Malaysia today.

Amongst Igbos currently,it is not uncommon to see a whole family where all the kids are physicians.
Yorubas were the first in the education business no doubt but things have changed.

Simple question,how many Igbo students and professors did you have in your university back home?

davidylan:

It was good enough to lay a solid foundation that had we been spared the leprous governments of northern Nigeria would have catapulted us to the level of the likes of Malaysia today.

Tell me David, besides maybe Abacha, was there any other President who had absolute rule?
Everybody was a thief, OBJ is a thief! Hell most people that made it abroad did not do it clean!

David the links tell us how many applied and how many were admitted to iniversities and polys.
Are you saying then that somehow more Igbos get in but more Yorubas graduate?
That wouldn't make sense especially when you see what those raw figures are

babyosisi:

Amongst Igbos currently,it is not uncommon to see a whole family where all the kids are physicians.
Yorubas were the first in the education business no doubt but things have changed.

The whole family thingy had been going on in yorubaland way before the igbos stumbled their way past the civil war and back to the classroom. I have a friend, the only one not in the medical profession is the youngest child and she is going to be an engineer when she finishes this yr. The elder 2 are medical doctors, their dad has a private hospital, the mum is a registered nurse and my friend is finishing med school this yr!

babyosisi:

Simple question,how many Igbo students and professors did you have in your university back home?

Maybe 1 or 2. The rest where all yorubas!

JosBoy4Lif:

Tell me David, besides maybe Abacha, was there any other President who had absolute rule?
Everybody was a thief, OBJ is a thief! Hell most people that made it abroad did not do it clean!

Let us not even go there!

babyosisi:

David the links tell us how many applied and how many were admitted to iniversities and polys.
Are you saying then that somehow more Igbos get in but more Yorubas graduate?
That wouldn't make sense especially when you see what those raw figures are

Yes ma'am, NPC also tells us more people live in the sahara desert than in the rain forest zone! I cant bet N5 on any Nigerian piece of statistic.
Do the links tell us how many eventually made it to school? did the links tell us how many bothered to finish?

davidylan:

The whole family thingy had been going on in yorubaland way before the igbos stumbled their way past the civil war and back to the classroom. I have a friend, the only one not in the medical profession is the youngest child and she is going to be an engineer when she finishes this yr. The elder 2 are medical doctors, their dad has a private hospital, the mum is a registered nurse and my friend is finishing med school this yr!

Maybe 1 or 2. The rest where all yorubas!

I said you guys started it until you now prefer to be area boys and we took over lol

Haba david,you should be happy that we have given up sales of spare parts to go to school.
It also shows our 419ers are now in school too lol