@OP: thanks for your response.

ChristianFreedo:


You know the organisation of Jehovah's Witnesses are led by men that are really smart and curny. They have so indoctrinated their followers in such a way that if anyone says or alleges that their leaders are not faithful or truthful, the first thing that will trigger in the minds of the followers will be "either the person has committed a sin, and disfellowship, or his trying to hide his sins or is trying to escape from preaching or is trying to make excuses" (As you may have realised, JWs, elders, Ms, pioneers do commit sins and still remain in "good standing" , do assignment, lead in field service etc and no one knows.)

Whatsoever reason to divert attention from the points raised or made. Anything at all. I saw it happened to me when I started raising questions and objective to some biblical applications. First thing they will ask of you is to wait, wait for the organisation to clarify, and if you persist, they will start claiming "Satan is using you, you are trying to hide one sin or another and whatever have you". I have seen it before, I know it all. Its a systematic way the organisation uses to shut people up and the jw followers are tools used by the men controlling the organisation.

The point is, if I am outside the organisation to present these issues, it will simply fit into the script played by the organisation. It will be easy for the organisation to say and for people to believe that "this people is just some person that want to smear the organisation with wicked lies" or most" fittingly" "he was disfellowshiped, tell the world what you did" as I was said when I posted about the regional convention, and I had to refute the claims.

But when I am inside, with a clean standing, detailing what is wrong with the organisation, it will be very easy for outside observers to know that something is wrong, that it's not just about the 'fine, shirt and tie wearing, with smile faces' they see offering attractive books with pictures. It will clearly show that something is wrong at the core and that some people are aware of it.
More so, it will be easy to talk with fellow witnesses, draw they attention to errors and misapplications, something that can't ever happened if I am outside and their head is filled with "Satan is using you".

Also, you can ask, why not go to the organisation and complain, why bring these things to public knowledge? Why not handle them discreetly?

The answer is simply, it had been tried many times over, it simply doesn't work. When these issues becomes a matter of public knowledge, it will force the men controlling the organisation to change or try to defend their position which will lead to more errors.
Also, more will become aware. So, it's also about creating public awareness.

Also, many before us had tried to make the men controlling the organisation to try to follow the Bible, in most cases it got them burnt severely. Late bro Ray Frank, Edward Dunlop, to name just a few, they all tried. It didn't work, neither will it work in the future. The men controlling the organisation feels they are above reproof, above corrections, they opinions are all that matters, everyone must subject to them, irrespective of whether they are wrong. So, all that remains is "make it a matter of public knowledge" , it seems to be the only thing the men controlling the organisation is afraid of.

Then the matter of take a stand, let everyone know. My guess is, you mean, "leave the organisation. Just leave and keep on your work".

My answer to that is very simply, I can't for now. I'm not ready yet to lose my family. You can make new friends, new neighbours, new love ones. But when you lose your family, you can't get them back, especially when they are under the influence of mind control techniques. So, I can't. At least for now, I am not prepared for such loss. However, I am considering my options.

Thanks for your advise anyway, I appreciate. I know you will not understand for now, because you are not in my shoes. I hope you will understand in future.

My concerns(the red bolded above)

1.You know the organisation of Jehovah's Witnesses are led by men that are really smart and curny

Brother as of today, and to people close to you (your family, friends etc.), you are still a member.

2. My answer to that is very simply, I can't for now. I'm not ready yet to lose my family. You can make new friends, new neighbours, new love ones. But when you lose your family, you can't get them back, especially when they are under the influence of mind control techniques. So, I can't. At least for now, I am not prepared for such loss

I am also quoting Matthew 10:37(Read whatever version you are comfortable with). There is no way you can argue or explain this.

3. I know you will not understand for now, because you are not in my shoes. I hope you will understand in future.

I understand you very well. I have been there and i and still there.

This might surprise you, i had the kind of upbringing that you had, But at a point, i started asking question, i couldnt get satisfactory answer to the questions i asked, i wasnt convinced with the answers i got. For many years, I played along like you but my conscience will not let me rest. The first decision i made was to stop preaching about what i was not totally convinced of which is the major issue i have with you ( you cannot be joining in worship with and smiling among people you were not in support of what they beleive). In my opinion, that is called hypocrisy. Again check the question i asked you on the post with link below: https://www.nairaland.com/3575389/should-true-christians-celebrate-birthdays.

Later i made some other decisions which i might not want to list out here. My point is i didnt hide myself from my family and friends even in the congregation. Was that easy? The answer is NO. I had to contend with the fear of losing all of them, but i still had to make my stand known.

Finally, looking through all your numerous posts and topics on the forum i know you are not happy with the way you are serving God. I once again emplore you to stand for what you beleive, come out bold let everybody know where you belong to and stop being two-faced (Read Matt. 10:37; Matt 19:29; Luke 14:26). Then you can channel your energy the way you want and people will respect you. Even some of the names you mentioned in your post had to make their stands known like Raymond Frank (i read his two books).

My brother, i am sure you do understand me.

Gracias!

plus7:
@OP: thanks for your response.



My concerns(the red bolded above)

1.You know the organisation of Jehovah's Witnesses are led by men that are really smart and curny

Brother as of today, and to people close to you (your family, friends etc.), you are still a member.

2. My answer to that is very simply, I can't for now. I'm not ready yet to lose my family. You can make new friends, new neighbours, new love ones. But when you lose your family, you can't get them back, especially when they are under the influence of mind control techniques. So, I can't. At least for now, I am not prepared for such loss

I am also quoting Matthew 10:37(Read whatever version you are comfortable with). There is no way you can argue or explain this.

3. I know you will not understand for now, because you are not in my shoes. I hope you will understand in future.

I understand you very well. I have been there and i and still there.

This might surprise you, i had the kind of upbringing that you had, But at a point, i started asking question, i couldnt get satisfactory answer to the questions i asked, i wasnt convinced with the answers i got. For many years, I played along like you but my conscience will not let me rest. The first decision i made was to stop preaching about what i was not totally convinced of which is the major issue i have with you ( you cannot be joining in worship with and smiling among people you were not in support of what they beleive). In my opinion, that is called hypocrisy. Again check the question i asked you on the post with link below: https://www.nairaland.com/3575389/should-true-christians-celebrate-birthdays.

Later i made some other decisions which i might not want to list out here. My point is i didnt hide myself from my family and friends even in the congregation. Was that easy? The answer is NO. I had to contend with the fear of losing all of them, but i still had to make my stand known.

Finally, looking through all your numerous posts and topics on the forum i know you are not happy with the way you are serving God. I once again emplore you to stand for what you beleive, come out bold let everybody know where you belong to and stop being two-faced (Read Matt. 10:37; Matt 19:29; Luke 14:26). Then you can channel your energy the way you want and people will respect you. Even some of the names you mentioned in your post had to make their stands known like Raymond Frank (i read his two books).

My brother, i am sure you do understand me.

Gracias!

It's OK. Have heard you. Now, lets allow this rest. However, note that a greater part of my post are simply creating awareness, awareness that will save lives.

secondly, this is not about upbringing.
Just like in many Christian household, parent are interested in bringing up their children in God's way and I am contented with it and will do same with my children. However, this is about misapplication of the Scriptures, that has led to wrong view of God, his son, his laws and how they are applied.

Also, when you quote Mt 10:37, how do you resolve that with the action of the Necodemos?
Thoughout history, they have always been secret disciples. You will often read of the watchtower speaking those who hide the Bible, read the Bible secretly, interpreted the Bible secretly. You can as well ask yourself, why didn't all take a stand? Why did they hide, work secretly? It's all because of the danger involved. In the past, it was about physical killing, today, the Watchtower employs mental killing. But in all these situations, God takes notice of the stand you take.

However, let me ask you, after you left, took a stand, how many people have you warn? What have you done to help others see what you saw?
what awareness have you created?


Please, try and watch this video. I believe it will help a lot. I think it will explain more.

Try watching the video.
https://www.nairaland.com/3552160/interview-late-bro-raymond-frank

However, as I have said before. Rest your case. I must create awareness while still inside, because nobody will listen to you when you are outside. They wouldn't even greet you. It will simply fit into the script played, "that you just hate the religion, you are just some disgrunted person. You what to smear it" and whatever the propaganda will be. So, please, allow the matter to rest. Also, try finding comfort in knowing that you have tried to convince, through reasoning, looking for support in the Scriptures and creating guilt feelings. But, as you have have been aware, I'm not falling for the guilt feeling of a thing.

This is the way it must be done. This is the way it has to be. Try and rest the case. Thanks and have a good day.

ChristianFreedo:



It's OK. Have heard you. Now, lets allow this rest. However, note that a greater part of my post are simply creating awareness, awareness that will save lives.

secondly, this is not about upbringing.
Just like in many Christian household, parent are interested in bringing up their children in God's way and I am contented with it and will do same with my children. However, this is about misapplication of the Scriptures, that has led to wrong view of God, his son, his laws and how they are applied.

Also, when you quote Mt 10:37, how do you resolve that with the action of the Necodemos?
Thoughout history, they have always been secret disciples. You will often read of the watchtower speaking those who hide the Bible, read the Bible secretly, interpreted the Bible secretly. You can as well ask yourself, why didn't all take a stand? Why did they hide, work secretly? It's all because of the danger involved. In the past, it was about physical killing, today, the Watchtower employs mental killing. But in all these situations, God takes notice of the stand you take.

However, let me ask you, after you left, took a stand, how many people have you warn? What have you done to help others see what you saw?
what awareness have you created?


Please, try and watch this video. I believe it will help a lot. I think it will explain more.

Try watching the video.
https://www.nairaland.com/3552160/interview-late-bro-raymond-frank

However, as I have said before. Rest your case. I must create awareness while still inside, because nobody will listen to you when you are outside. They wouldn't even greet you. It will simply fit into the script played, "that you just hate the religion, you are just some disgrunted person. You what to smear it" and whatever the propaganda will be. So, please, allow the matter to rest. Also, try finding comfort in knowing that you have tried to convince, through reasoning, looking for support in the Scriptures and creating guilt feelings. But, as you have have been aware, I'm not falling for the guilt feeling of a thing.

This is the way it must be done. This is the way it has to be. Try and rest the case. Thanks and have a good day.

Thanks for the reply.

Like you said i rest my case, this will be my last comment on this issue.

But i must point this before i leave(see part coloured red above), my aim was not to create any guilt. I dont know how you see it anyway. I have been following your posts for sometimes now, i just presented the issue the way i saw it. Whether you feel guilty about it or not depends on how you see it.

About the question you raised above, at first i was scared of expressing my feeling. But now, I tell anyone that cares to listen how i feel about any issue raised even my parents(you know what that means and you should have an idea of the reactions that would have created).

My questions too are: can you or have you told your parents, siblings and friends what you share on this forum using a user name? Can you defend what you beleive with your full strength the way you do on this forum??

I am not forcing my opinions, in fact i cannot and should not do that.

Once again this is my last post and comment, i will still be following ur comments and posts though .

I wish you all the best "in your search of christian freedom".
Accept my best wishes!

plus7:



Thanks for the reply.

Like you said i rest my case, this will be my last comment on this issue.

But i must point this before i leave(see part coloured red above), my aim was not to create any guilt. I dont know how you see it anyway. I have been following your posts for sometimes now, i just presented the issue the way i saw it. Whether you feel guilty about it or not depends on how you see it.

About the question you raised above, at first i was scared of expressing my feeling. But now, I tell anyone that cares to listen how i feel about any issue raised even my parents(you know what that means and you should have an idea of the reactions that would have created).

My questions too are: can you or have you told your parents, siblings and friends what you share on this forum using a user name? Can you defend what you beleive with your full strength the way you do on this forum??

I am not forcing my opinions, in fact i cannot and should not do that.

Once again this is my last post and comment, i will still be following ur comments and posts though .

I wish you all the best "in your search of christian freedom".
Accept my best wishes!

Though I am careful of how much I can divulge about my personal life (for obvious reasons, because I know the organisation is here), those I speak with know, and each time opportunity present itself, I let them know. Sometimes, the conversation has been heated (you know how they respond).

But after I read this, http://jwfacts.com/watchtower/helping-someone-leave.php, I came to realise that it was a waste of time and effort and at most, it will only push those I speak with to the corner, to withdraw to their watchtower shell. So, now, I use the power of questions, critical reasoning, and then draw attention to the Bible. Yes, people I converse with know, when the opportunity present itself.

And also, try watching the video. It can change your perception about many things. I consider it a life changing video for me. I know many will also. https://www.nairaland.com/3552160/interview-late-bro-raymond-frank

Jozzy4:


dont mind the fellow, Slandering is their work. One beautiful thing that I admire in the Witnesses at that time is They Refuse to Kill or participate in the War . for me, its commendable.


@ op , Am askin again: Show me something better ?

So you believe it is ok that the jw supported hitler in his anti semitism.

ChristianFreedo:




I'm not going to insult you. But you are free to. I edited to give a better response and you are not going to force me to any decision, please try to rest your case. And that's my last response to you.

- Matt 10:37 is very clear, clearly you are deceiving yourself BIG TYME

Ubenedictus:
So you believe it is ok that the jw supported hitler in his anti semitism.

Sir, how exactly did they support Hitler ? by saying they upheld the same standard that the Govt aim to achieve ? Mr man, No government want its citizens to lie, cheat or commit fraud , or evade taxes , THEY WANT THEM TO BE LAW ABIDING when u preach against this acts You are helping the Govt in its goal to have better and law abiding citizens, even though you are only Preaching Morals of God. a good example is Romans 13:7 , understand!


dont listen to all this half truths and twisted opinions presented on this thread

Jozzy4:


Sir, how exactly did they support Hitler ? by saying they upheld the same standard that the Govt aim to achieve ? Mr man, No government want its citizens to lie, cheat or commit fraud , or evade taxes , THEY WANT THEM TO BE LAW ABIDING when u preach against this acts You are helping the Govt in its goal to have better and law abiding citizens, even though you are only Preaching Morals of God. a good example is Romans 13:7 , understand!


dont listen to all this half truths and twisted opinions presented on this thread

You are still saying Rutherford was pro Nazi since he supported them. Since it is half truth there is an element of truth and half truth sounds better than complete lies.

Nazis aimed to kill all jews but killed over 6 million Jews. so you are saying jws upheld this standard?

Hairyrapunzel:


You are still saying Rutherford was pro Nazi since he supported them. Since it is half truth there is an element of truth and half truth sounds better than complete lies.

The only element of truth is he wrote a letter which a sane mind knows is simply pointing at Religious obligations to the Creator which at the same time benefit the human family and restore good relationship among mankind , which is what Every govt wants in its citizen, been law abiding . @ Romans 13:7 Apostle Paul ask Christians to pay taxes , doing this not only Make u have a good relationship with God, but helps the Govt in achieving its goals too . use your reasoning

Nazis aimed to kill all jews but killed over 6 million Jews. so you are saying jws upheld this standard?

Killing your fellow man is not a religious obligation and a direct Offense against God Almighty . this aspect is what the Witnesses wont do Scripture says we must Obey God as rulers rather than men .

Jozzy4:


The only element of truth is he wrote a letter which a sane mind knows is simply pointing at Religious obligations to the Creator which at the same time benefit the human family and restore good relationship among mankind , which is what Every govt wants in its citizen, been law abiding . @ Romans 13:7 Apostle Paul ask Christians to pay taxes , doing this not only Make u have a good relationship with God, but helps the Govt in achieving its goals too . use your reasoning



Killing your fellow man is not a religious obligation and a direct Offense against God Almighty . this aspect is what the Witnesses wont do Scripture says we must Obey God as rulers rather than men .

It still doesn't change the fact that Rutherford supported Hitlers stance against Jews. Paul asking christians to pay tax is not thesame as Rutherfords support of Nazi government for their anti semitic policies. One preaches giving the government it's due the other preaches supporting a governments hate policies. So if your government hates an ethnic group and you have problems with the govt at that time because you want to keep up an appearance with that govt to earn rewards you will support the govt hate propaganda against that ethnic group?

So in other words you are saying hating an ethnic group is part of citizens obligatory role? Haba use your reasoning.

Hairyrapunzel:


It still doesn't change the fact that Rutherford supported Hitlers stance against Jews. Paul asking christians to pay tax is not thesame as Rutherfords support of Nazi government for their anti semitic policies. One preaches giving the government it's due the other preaches supporting a governments hate policies. So if your government hates an ethnic group and you have problems with the govt at that time because you want to keep up an appearance with that govt to earn rewards you will support the govt hate propaganda against that ethnic group?


So in other words you are saying hating an ethnic group is part of citizens obligatory role? Haba use your reasoning.

The bold shows you need to re-read my post over and over again until you understand it.

I wonder why they didn't carry Gun and start killing an ethnic group since according to you they hate them!

Jozzy4:


The bold shows you need to re-read my post over and over again until you understand it.

I wonder why they didn't carry Gun and start killing an ethnic group since according to you they hate them!

But they supported people that carried guns to kill a particular ethnic group. Rutherford supported Nazi ideologies it shows hatred . Besides you don't need only guns to show hate. You don't need to kill someone with a gun to show you hate the person your words alone can tell hatred

So in other words they didn't kill people directly but sang praises for people who committed the acts of killing on others this shows they are good people right?

Stop giving excuses for the role your jws played in Hitlers regime. From what I have seen they helped to spread hate of the Jews.

Jozzy4:


Sir, how exactly did they support Hitler ? by saying they upheld the same standard that the Govt aim to achieve ? Mr man, No government want its citizens to lie, cheat or commit fraud , or evade taxes , THEY WANT THEM TO BE LAW ABIDING when u preach against this acts You are helping the Govt in its goal to have better and law abiding citizens, even though you are only Preaching Morals of God. a good example is Romans 13:7 , understand!


dont listen to all this half truths and twisted opinions presented on this thread

HERE RUTHERFORD CONDEM THE LEAGUE OF NATION. Let us remind the government and the people of Germany, that it was the League of Nations compact that laid upon the shoulders of the German people the great unjust and
unbearable burdens. That the League of
Nations compact was not brought forth by the friends of Germany.

Jozzy4:


Sir, how exactly did they support Hitler ? by saying they upheld the same standard that the Govt aim to achieve ? Mr man, No government want its citizens to lie, cheat or commit fraud , or evade taxes , THEY WANT THEM TO BE LAW ABIDING when u preach against this acts You are helping the Govt in its goal to have better and law abiding citizens, even though you are only Preaching Morals of God. a good example is Romans 13:7 , understand!


dont listen to all this half truths and twisted opinions presented on this thread

The letter I am seeing not only says that jw and the nazi share common ideals, it also condemns the jews, it didnt try to help them as they were been persecuted but to futher condemn them, the it goes on to condemn the league of nations that stood against the nazi atrocities.

Abeg, that has nothing to do with fraud, that is clear support for hitler and condemnation for d anti nazi.

Hairyrapunzel:


But they supported people that carried guns to kill a particular ethnic group. Rutherford supported Nazi ideologies it shows hatred . Besides you don't need only guns to show hate. You don't need to kill someone with a gun to show you hate the person your words alone can tell hatred

So in other words they didn't kill people directly but sang praises for people who committed the acts of killing on others this shows they are good people right?

Stop giving excuses for the role your jws played in Hitlers regime. From what I have seen they helped to spread hate of the Jews.

the Bold is why I told you to sit down and read my responses again,

This was to counter the Accusation that they were funded/Supported by the Jews.

" We are the faithful followers of Christ Jesus and believe upon Him as the Savior of the world, whereas the
Jews entirely reject Jesus Christ and emphatically deny that he is the Savior of the world sent of God for man's good. This of itself should be sufficient proof to show that we receive no support from Jews "

if u cant understand , let me help you .. the point been made is not an hatred for Jews BUT the issue is , How can they Be supported by a group of people who totally oppose Christ as Saviour which is their own message ? its contradictory of them to receive support from Jews when they held on to the belive that Jesus of Nazareth died and was Ressurected for our salvation , something the Jews deny.



About the bold , Read this :


" The "Declaration" also reminded the government of its own promises. The Witnesses upheld certain high ideals, and these happened to be publicly espoused also by the German government. Among these were family values and religious freedom.

In this regard, the "Declaration" added: "A careful examination of our books and literature will disclose the fact that the very high ideals held and promulgated by the present national government are set forth in and endorsed and strongly emphasized in our publications, and show that Jehovah God will see to it that these high ideals in due time will be attained by all persons who love righteousness."
Thus, the Witnesses never expressed support for the Nazi Party. …"-Awake! 1998 Jul 8.

So Jehovah Gods ideal which will be attained by people who love Righteousness is killing your fellow man ? have explained this countless times, the ideals And way of life outlined in the Bible if followed would contribute to the Govt achieving its aim . the ideals are those of Righteousness outlined in the scripture which Jehovah hope to achieve soon .

Ubenedictus:
The letter I am seeing not only says that jw and the nazi share common ideals, it also condemns the jews, it didnt try to help them as they were been persecuted but to futher condemn them, the it goes on to condemn the league of nations that stood against the nazi atrocities.

Abeg, that has nothing to do with fraud, that is clear support for hitler and condemnation for d anti nazi.

"
We are the faithful followers of Christ Jesus and believe upon Him as the Savior of the world, whereas the
Jews entirely reject Jesus Christ and emphatically deny that he is the Savior of the world sent of God for man's good. This of itself should be sufficient proof to show that we receive no support from Jews"


how exactly does this shows hatred for Jews ? keep in mind that the response was to the accusation that they were supported by Jews.

Only highlight how contradictory it would be of them to receive assistance from Jews who doesnt share their main belief which is the death and resurrection of Christ for our salvation

Jozzy4:


the Bold is why I told you to sit down and read my responses again,

This was to counter the Accusation that they were funded/Supported by the Jews.

" We are the faithful followers of Christ Jesus and believe upon Him as the Savior of the world, whereas the
Jews entirely reject Jesus Christ and emphatically deny that he is the Savior of the world sent of God for man's good. This of itself should be sufficient proof to show that we receive no support from Jews "

if u cant understand , let me help you .. the point been made is not an hatred for Jews BUT the issue is , How can they Be supported by a group of people who totally oppose Christ as Saviour which is their own message ? its contradictory of them to receive support from Jews when they held on to the belive that Jesus of Nazareth died and was Ressurected for our salvation , something the Jews deny.



About the bold , Read this :


" The "Declaration" also reminded the government of its own promises. The Witnesses upheld certain high ideals, and these happened to be publicly espoused also by the German government. Among these were family values and religious freedom.

In this regard, the "Declaration" added: "A careful examination of our books and literature will disclose the fact that the very high ideals held and promulgated by the present national government are set forth in and endorsed and strongly emphasized in our publications, and show that Jehovah God will see to it that these high ideals in due time will be attained by all persons who love righteousness."
Thus, the Witnesses never expressed support for the Nazi Party. …"-Awake! 1998 Jul 8.

So Jehovah Gods ideal which will be attained by people who love Righteousness is killing your fellow man ? have explained this countless times, the ideals And way of life outlined in the Bible if followed would contribute to the Govt achieving its aim . the ideals are those of Righteousness outlined in the scripture which Jehovah hope to achieve soon .

"Be it known once and for all that those profiteering, conscienceless, selfish men who call themselves Jews, and who control the greater portion of the finances of the world and the business of the world, will never be the rulers in this new earth. God would not risk such selfish men with such an important position" The Golden Age 1927 Feb 23 p.343


"The Jews were evicted from Palestine and ‘their house left unto them desolate’ because they rejected Christ Jesus, the beloved and anointed King of Jehovah. To this day the Jews have not repented of this wrongful act committed by their forefathers. … In 1917 the Balfour Declaration, sponsored by the heathen governments of Satan's organization, came forth, recognized the Jews, and bestowed upon them great favors. ... The Jews have received more attention at their hands than they really deserved." Vindication - Book II (1932) pp.257-258

Jozzy4:

"
We are the faithful followers of Christ Jesus and believe upon Him as the Savior of the world, whereas the
Jews entirely reject Jesus Christ and emphatically deny that he is the Savior of the world sent of God for man's good. This of itself should be sufficient proof to show that we receive no support from Jews"


how exactly does this shows hatred for Jews ? keep in mind that the response was to the accusation that they were supported by Jews.

Only highlight how contradictory it would be of them to receive assistance from Jews who doesnt share their main belief which is the death and resurrection of Christ for our salvation

The Brooklyn headquarter of the Watchtower Society is pro German in an exemplary way and has been so for many years. For that reason, in 1918, the president of the Society and seven members of the board of directors were sentenced to 80 years in prison, because the president refused to use two of the magazines published in America under his direction for war propaganda against Germany. These two magazines, "The Watchtower" and "Bible Student" were the only magazines in America which refused to engage in anti-German propaganda and for that reason were prohibited and suppressed in America during the war.

In the very same manner, in course of the recent months the board of directors of our Society not only refused to engage in propaganda against Germany, but has even taken a position against it. The enclosed declaration underlines this fact and emphasizes that the people leading in such propaganda (Jewish businessmen and Catholics) also are the most rigorous persecutors of the work of our Society and its board of directors. This and other statements of the declaration are meant to repudiate the slanderous accusation, that Bible Researchers are supported by the Jews.

The conference of five thousand delegates also noted - as is expressed in the declaration - that the Bible Researchers of Germany are fighting for the very same high ethical goals and ideals which also the national government of the German Reich proclaimed respecting the relationship of humans to God, namely: honesty of the created being towards its creator.


The conference came to the conclusion that there are no contradictions when it comes to the relationship between the Bible Researchers of Germany to the national government of the German Reich. To the contrary, referring to the purely religious and unpolitical goals and efforts of the Bible Researchers, it can be said that these are in full agreement with the identical goals of the national government of the German Reich.

...

We are looking forward to your kind approval, which we hope to receive soon, and want to assure our highest respect to you, honorable Mr. Reichskanzler.

Yours faithfully,
Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society Magdeburg"

FRom the above you can deduce that they were pro Nazi and anti semitic. Jws spread hate of the Jews during Nazi regime no more excuse please.

Ubenedictus:
HERE RUTHERFORD CONDEM THE LEAGUE OF NATION. Let us remind the government and the people of Germany, that it was the League of Nations compact that laid upon the shoulders of the German people the great unjust and
unbearable burdens. That the League of
Nations compact was not brought forth by the friends of Germany.

Psalm 146:3,4 says do not put your trust in nobles nor in the sons of earthling men to whom no salvation belongs , understanding this , let me let you know that Jehovahs Witnesses Only belive Only Gods kingdom will bring about the changes the world needz. NOT any human government . Scripture says man has rule man , its to their own calamities

the statement above was definitely reffering to the treaty of Versailles which Germany signed, and which brought many hardships on German CItizens and even make their currency almost worthless . Reffering to this doesnt mean support for Nazi BUT to discharge themselves of the accusations that They are enemy of German progress or been financed by The Jews. when other factors that brought the hardship are glaring.


keep in mind that it was a response to an ACCUSATION.

Jozzy4:


- Matt 10:37 is very clear, clearly you are deceiving yourself BIG TYME

If that is going to comfort you. Please, believe that.

Jozzy4:


Psalm 146:3,4 says do not put your trust in nobles nor in the sons of earthling men to whom no salvation belongs , understanding this , let me let you know that Jehovahs Witnesses Only belive Only Gods kingdom will bring about the changes the world needz. NOT any human government . Scripture says man has rule man , its to their own calamities

the statement above was definitely reffering to the treaty of Versailles which Germany signed, and which brought many hardships on German CItizens and even make their currency almost worthless . Reffering to this doesnt mean support for Nazi BUT to discharge themselves of the accusations that They are enemy of German progress or been financed by The Jews. when other factors that brought the hardship are glaring.


keep in mind that it was a response to an ACCUSATION.

Let's keep this very simple.

Can you show us in print, the Watchtower condemnation of Hitler's action towards the Jews?

Jozzy4:


Psalm 146:3,4 says do not put your trust in nobles nor in the sons of earthling men to whom no salvation belongs , understanding this , let me let you know that Jehovahs Witnesses Only belive Only Gods kingdom will bring about the changes the world needz. NOT any human government . Scripture says man has rule man , its to their own calamities

the statement above was definitely reffering to the treaty of Versailles which Germany signed, and which brought many hardships on German CItizens and even make their currency almost worthless . Reffering to this doesnt mean support for Nazi BUT to discharge themselves of the accusations that They are enemy of German progress or been financed by The Jews. when other factors that brought the hardship are glaring.


keep in mind that it was a response to an ACCUSATION.

So they are not the enemies of Germany and they were not financed by the jews. In other words they are germany's friends and they are not financed by jews so they spread hateful message about jews and say good things about germany and are ok with german nazi anti semetic ideologies. Don't give excuse for jws hatred towards Jews.

Hairyrapunzel:


So they are not the enemies of Germany

Not an enemy of any government authority.

" For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. " Romans 13:1-4

and they were not financed by the jews. .

Fine.

Jozzy4:


Not an enemy of any government authority.

" For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. " Romans 13:1-4



Fine.

Dont cherry pick Rutherford and his cohorts were in support of German Nazi regime they where friends of German government at that time and they supported German governments anti semitic policies in hating jews.

The matter on ground is they supported hitlers policies and which was all about hating the jews. There is no excuse don't quote Romans 13: 1-4 they did not even quote the verse in their letter to Hitler. And that verse never said we should support a government will kill millions of people because they are of a certain race they didn't like.


They never even condemned the killing of jews even when other religions condemned Hitler on that. Your people even supported him. You people like to support bad people.

Jws Always try to cover up their wrong doings.

From the whole story Sef Rutherford was a narcissistic he goat, a delusional bastard and a schizophrenic idiot also a murderer he actually was the cause of the death of 2500 jws who were killed at that time.

ChristianFreedo:


Let's keep this very simple.

Can you show us in print, the Watchtower condemnation of Hitler's action towards the Jews?

, open to page 2 of the watchtower and see why its been printed. this can give you a clue as to the kind of things you would find in its content.


till then, Go and apply Matt 10:37 in your life .

Hairyrapunzel:

[s]
Dont cherry pick Rutherford and his cohorts were in support of German Nazi regime they where friends of German government at that time and they supported German governments anti semitic policies in hating jews.

The matter on ground is they supported hitlers policies and which was all about hating the jews. There is no excuse don't quote Romans 13: 1-4 they did not even quote the verse in their letter to Hitler. And that verse never said we should support a government will kill millions of people because they are of a certain race they didn't like.


They never even condemned the killing of jews even when other religions condemned Hitler on that. Your people even supported him. You people like to support bad people.

Jws Always try to cover up their wrong doings.

From the whole story Sef Rutherford was a narcissistic he goat, a delusional bastard and a schizophrenic idiot also a murderer he actually was the cause of the death of 2500 jws who were killed at that time.
[/s]

your misinformed opinion man, They supported Nazi according to you but yet Same Nazi still persecute them . what an Irony.


Their stand on Gods word not to Engage in War and Kill is what I loved and admired the most .

thanks for ur time.

Jozzy4:


your misinformed opinion man, They supported Nazi according to you but yet Same Nazi still persecute them . what an Irony.


Their stand on Gods word not to Engage in War and Kill is what I loved and admired the most .

thanks for ur time.

But they can support the Germans that killed 6 million Jews and spread hate about this same Jews. Many People still don't engage in war and killings and they are not affiliated with any religion and they also don't support hatred toward any race don't think it is only your religion that does not engage in war or kill.

You don't engage in war and killing but your wish and your teaching says your jehovah will come and his holy war will take place and he will kill 99.9% of the world's population and you will be the only ones he will not kill and you all will be happy

Many religious groups do not participate in wars and their stance about wars are well known Infact they discourage all forms of war it is not exclusive to just your religion

You do not participate in wars and killings but can encourage wars and killings who are you fooling? Yourselves as usual.
They could support hitler Nazi government in killing Jews and spread hatred and lies about jews but could not salute to their pal hitler. It's all good at least they died it reduced the number of people spreading hate messages and false doctrine.

JWs suffered in German concentration camps while following the edicts and commands of their Cult leaders like Rutherford who were, of course, safe in Brooklyn, making capital out of the persecution their own rules had brought upon the brainwashed rank and file

Where in the bible did God say people should never participate in any kind of war that they should die instead? You people say God's wOrd whereas that statement may not be in the bible

Your leaders are narcissistic bastArds na me talk am. Making people die because of their rules and making money from it. Demented old he goats that want their followers or outside observers to see them as most persecuted whereas it is tactics to get followers.

It still doesn't change the fact that Rutherford was pro Nazi antI semitic.

Jozzy4:


, open to page 2 of the watchtower and see why its been printed. this can give you a clue as to the kind of things you would find in its content.


till then, Go and apply Matt 10:37 in your life .

Thank you for your response

In order words, they didn't condemn it. They instead tried to placate Hitler by condemning the same people he was killing in order to look good. The league of nations that condemned the atrocities committed by Hitler, was condemn before Hitler as well in order to appear Pro Germany in a number of ways.

My brother, stop defending the indefensible. There is a reason Watchtower refuses to discuss the letter to Hitler and the declaration of fact. They compromised, and the world that saw those documents knows it.


The bloodshed in the hands of watchtower and it's leader is massing up to the heavens. Someday, God will call them to account.

And meanwhile, save your strength. Because you will need it to defend the actions of watchtower in Malawi and Mexico.

Jozzy4:


I know its a matter of time before you show the kind of person you are , didnt you say you want to follow Christ and Be his Disciple ? Lol, yet you could made that statement in red .


"The one who loves his father or mother more than me isn't worthy of me, and the one who loves a son or daughter more than me isn't worthy of me." - Matt 10:37 ISV @ the statement in red .

How can anyone take someone like you serious ?

I have asked him this same question countless times. He claimed to be a Christian but cannot face the challenges of being one. I don't have any issu with his reasoning, we cannot all think the same way or accept the same thing. But if you are looking for a 2-face Christian, he stands tall.

Funny thing is that he still sees that as acceptable by God. Giving excuses why you still do some wrongs as a Christian?

He never saw this as exactly the same things every sinner does.

Tell me who does not have an excuse to give when you are default.
But then, my question is, who takes this kind person serious?

olaolaking:

I have asked him this same question countless times. He claimed to be a Christian but cannot face the challenges of being one. I don't have any issu with his reasoning, we cannot all think the same way or accept the same thing. But if you are looking for a 2-face Christian, he stands tall.

Funny thing is that he still sees that as acceptable by God. Giving excuses why you still do some wrongs as a Christian?

He never saw this as exactly the same things every sinner does.

Tell me who does not have an excuse to give when you are default.
But then, my question is, who takes this kind person serious?

In today's words, it is called 'whistle blowing'. Everyone takes whistle blowing serious. They are concerned with the whistle, not with who blows it.

ChristianFreedo:


In today's words, it is called 'whistle blowing'. Everyone takes whistle blowing serious. They are concerned with the whistle, not with who blows it.

This response wants me to question more, are you truly serious? You call that whistle blowing? The thing is that you constantly do same things to justify your wrong doing? I am beginning to beg you. Please examine yourself. I have always respect people's beliefs when it comes to religion. But you are just so different. I call for self examination on your part. It is very important

olaolaking:

I have asked him this same question countless times. He claimed to be a Christian but cannot face the challenges of being one. I don't have any issu with his reasoning, we cannot all think the same way or accept the same thing. But if you are looking for a 2-face Christian, he stands tall.

Funny thing is that he still sees that as acceptable by God. Giving excuses why you still do some wrongs as a Christian?

He never saw this as exactly the same things every sinner does.

Tell me who does not have an excuse to give when you are default.

But then, my question is, who takes this kind person serious?

Nobody @ Bold, he knows he is deceiving himself , you would hardly see him on any meaningful bible discussion thread . all he knows is shout Jw up and down , Tomorrow this apostate will attend meeting and smile with Brothers who dont know he is only a traitor whose aim is to ruin his fellow man , but Jehovah would fish him out soon . AM 100% SURE about this . I only respond to their silly allegations because of people reading not for them.