“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

Epicurus – Greek philosopher, BC 341-270

This argument was made by the greek philosopher Epicurus. Surely he was far ahead of his time

Sensible.

this argument is worthless because it assumes that God can be easily rationalized by flawed human reasoning.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent. - that makes no sense . . . we know God is perfectly capable of preventing evil.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent. - Again makes no sense. If i wish to teach my son a lesson by refusing to slap his hands off as he tries to stick them to a hot pot . . . does that make me malevolent? Its impossible to teach someone a lesson by refusing to let him face the consequences of his own foolish decisions.

Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil? - I struggle to figure out what Epicurus meant by this. If God is both able and willing to prevent evil but makes a conscious choice NOT TO . . . how does that become an argument against evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?” - Am i neither able nor willing to prevent evil if i refuse to intervene if my child is flogged in school for not turning in his assignments on time? Perhaps you could ask why call me father?

Dense.

One of the problems i have with Epicurus's quote and atheism in general is the one-sidedness of their alleged "arguments".

when all is fine and dandy God is nowhere near the discussion . . . when it comes to evil all of a sudden its God's fault?

When we talk of the immaculately designed earth . . . its all about "nature". When tornadoes strike then Epicurus and his equally stupid fans cry about where God was hiding his face?

Can any argument be more flawed than this? If Epicurus wants us to blame God for natural disasters or cancer, can he at least be sensible enough to credit God for creating a sun to warm us all?

davidylan:

One of the problems i have with Epicurus's quote and atheism in general is the one-sidedness of their alleged "arguments".

when all is fine and dandy God is nowhere near the discussion . . . when it comes to evil all of a sudden its God's fault?

When we talk of the immaculately designed earth . . . its all about "nature". When tornadoes strike then Epicurus and his equally silly fans cry about where God was hiding his face?

Can any argument be more flawed than this? If Epicurus wants us to blame God for natural disasters or cancer, can he at least be sensible enough to credit God for creating a sun to warm us all?

hehehehe david oya he try well well for sun, he should have made us better though

davidylan:

this argument is worthless because it assumes that God can be easily rationalized by flawed human reasoning.

I laugh . . . .Flawed human reasoning eh? And your evidence to show that your god has a superior reasoning capability that is greater than that of humans is?. . . . .Human's have flawed reasoning capabilities yet it is ONLY humans and their flawed reasoning capabilities that this god uses all the time to execute his perfect will that is flawless? This all-powerful god who is alleged to be the creator of flawed human is also TOTALLY dependent upon flawed, puny humans and their flawed reasoning to carry out its every wish. It is they who burned heretics and killed infidels and persecuted unbelievers on its behalf, who conducted its "holy wars" to spread its worship or tell others about his will, who convert pagans, build churches or place of worship, hospitals and schools, use their flawed reasoning to find out everything they can about the earth and universe, Use their flawed reasoning to explain to each other how this god supposedly created the earth and the universe and try to explain it to themselves. This all-powerful creator god can do absolutely nothing except work inside people's heads and on their minds which is full of flawed reasoning to execute its wishes. We have never seen it do anything else on its own beside relying on the flawed humans are their flawed reasoning to do everything for it.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent. - that makes no sense . . . we know God is perfectly capable of preventing evil.

And your evidence to show that this god is capable of preventing evil is?. . . . . .

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent. - Again makes no sense. If i wish to teach my son a lesson by refusing to slap his hands off as he tries to stick them to a hot pot . . . does that make me malevolent? Its impossible to teach someone a lesson by refusing to let him face the consequences of his own foolish decisions.

What about Natural evil like Volcano, earth quakes, diseases, tsunamis, mudslides etc? How were they created by men? As a father its good to teach your son lessons about decorum but will you stand and watch a building collapse on your child even when you have the ability to stop it? Will you stand and watch a stray bullet kill your child even when you have the ability to stop it?

Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil? - I struggle to figure out what Epicurus meant by this. If God is both able and willing to prevent evil but makes a conscious choice NOT TO . . . how does that become an argument against evil?

Ok so your god made a consious choice not to prevent the evil that befall on his beloved children eh? Interesting. . . .

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?” - Am i neither able nor willing to prevent evil if i refuse to intervene if my child is flogged in school for not turning in his assignments on time? Perhaps you could ask why call me father?

Dense.

Your child will definitely wonder why he should call you father if he truly knows that you have the ability to stop a stray bullet from hitting him as a result of a shooting that has nothing to do with him or stop a building from collapsing on his head but refused to do so despite you claming that you love him and will always protect him. . . .Dense indeed. . . . .

@mazaje You don spoil ground finish oh

davidylan:

One of the problems i have with Epicurus's quote and atheism in general is the one-sidedness of their alleged "arguments".

when all is fine and dandy God is nowhere near the discussion . . . when it comes to evil all of a sudden its God's fault?

When we talk of the immaculately designed earth . . . its all about "nature". When tornadoes strike then Epicurus and his equally silly fans cry about where God was hiding his face?

Can any argument be more flawed than this? If Epicurus wants us to blame God for natural disasters or cancer, can he at least be sensible enough to credit God for creating a sun to warm us all?

Epicurus was not even arguing against the christian god, He was arguing against  the existence of the greek god/gods as described by the proponents of that god hypothesis. . . .And amongst the attributes of these god/gods were the promise to protect people from evil if they believe. . .So the question is of what use is a god that promises to protect people but fails? Even your bible makes a taller claim by promising people protection. . . .It even says that people that believe shall drink poison and not be hurt, snakes shall bite people and nothing will happen to them. . .That is not what we see around? No? So of what use are all these promise of protection believers bandy about when the evidence seen around contradicts their claims and hypothesis?. . . .

Chrisbenogor:

@mazaje You don spoil ground finish oh

Na wetin I use spoil ground now? . . . . How body?

Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil? - I struggle to figure out what Epicurus meant by this. If God is both able and willing to prevent evil but makes a conscious choice NOT TO . . . how does that become an argument against evil?

Epicurus is asking why does evil exist if god is both willing and capable of stopping it.

What is evil if God is non existent
?

Pastor AIO:

What is evil if God is non existent
?

generally anything that causes harm to the well-being to a living or damage to an object. its highly subjective.

@ Atheists -

Let us assume that God has an evil side. How does that presuppose his non-existence?

Its a dense argument, as David has stated. The principle of duality infact suggests that all good and all evil may well be sourced from God - to wit - that the origin of all things has a negative as well as positive element: this can be inferred from a philosophy of dualism and even the masculine abstract and the feminine abstract.

So the existence of evil in no way detracts from the existence of God in a puristic sense. That is if you understand what we mean by God - we are not talking about that Jewish Old man sitting in the skies.

In my personal life however, i have come to a living conviction that evil has a purpose within the scheme of things. One such purpose is spiritual growth. WE can for example remember the saying that the finest gold is forged through fire.

Atheists:


Epicurus is asking why does evil exist if god is both willing and capable of stopping it.

Well let me ask epicurus this . . . can a coin exist without 2 sides?

why bother praying for his intervention, if he has intended evil for all and since it was in his supreme design. no wonder its his will for you to be burning, killing and raping people to carry out his design!

Well let me ask epicurus this . . . can a coin exist without 2 sides?

Comparing god to a coin is a logical fallacy of the highest order.

Atheists:


Comparing god to a coin is a logical fallacy of the highest order.

no dummy! We arent comparing God to a coin, we are simply using the coin as an analogy. Its interesting to see how you guys NEVER take on the issue rather prefering to lose urselves in meaningless semantics.

davidylan:

Well let me ask epicurus this . . . can a coin exist without 2 sides?

Better back up bro --- down that road lies the Manichaean heresy.

Atheists:

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"

This argument was made by the greek philosopher Epicurus. Surely he was far ahead of his time

--- here we go again; an atheist clutching at straws.

Epicurus' syllogism may be stated:
1. If a perfectly good God exists, then there is no evil in the world.
2. There is evil in the world.
3. Therefore, a perfectly good God does not exist.
The logic behind the argument runs thus:
“Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to.
If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent.
If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked.
If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?”

Evil is indeed a very difficult problem. This is not because it is philosophically or theologically difficult but because it is emotionally difficult. In seeking to respond to the problem of evil we are pitting real pain versus abstract concepts. Emotion versus intellect makes for an uneven fight—how do you argue against an emotion? Thus, responses to the problem of evil are generally seen as heartless or dry-as-dust theorizing.

Biblically and philosophically, Epicurus’ first syllogistic point is false since a perfectly good God who allows free will can exist [/b]and thus, his syllogism fails.

Epicurus’ logic behind the argument fails because he proposes a [b]restricted number of options—it is a false dichotomy.
1. Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot;
2. or He can, but does not want to.

Yet, biblically and philosophically a third option is that God wants to abolish evil and can, yet He functions on his own timing and He has not done it yet because He has a higher purpose in allowing evil to persist for a time.
God did not create the world with evil; it is the result of sin.

This is the biblical answer to Epicurus & his followers (Epicureans):
Acts 17:24-32 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.' Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising. Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead." And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, "We will hear you again on this matter."

no dummy! We arent comparing God to a coin, we are simply using the coin as an analogy. Its interesting to see how you guys NEVER take on the issue rather prefering to lose urselves in meaningless semantics.

No dummy ! Your analogy is a logical fallacy !

^^
See how alethia stylishly jumped from discussing evil to "a perfectly good god capable of free will exists" in essense blaming the free will of man for every evil.

Tell me, what is the free will behind in-born genetic errors in children and natural disasters like tsunamis, tornadoes, earthquakes and co

Tudór:

^^
See how alethia stylishly jumped from discussing evil to "a perfectly good god capable of free will exists" in essense blaming the free will of man for every evil.

Tell me, what is the free will behind in-born genetic errors in children and natural disasters like tsunamis, tornadoes, earthquakes and co

Read carefully, unless the English is too difficult for you to understand

aletheia:


Evil is indeed a very difficult problem. This is not because it is philosophically or theologically difficult but because it is emotionally difficult. In seeking to respond to the problem of evil we are pitting real pain versus abstract concepts. Emotion versus intellect makes for an uneven fight—how do you argue against an emotion? Thus, responses to the problem of evil are generally seen as heartless or dry-as-dust theorizing.

Yet, biblically and philosophically a third option is that God wants to abolish evil and can, yet He functions on his own timing and He has not done it yet because He has a higher purpose in allowing evil to persist for a time.
God did not create the world with evil; it is the result of sin.


This is the biblical answer to Epicurus and his followers (Epicureans) & Tudor:
Acts 17:24-32 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.' Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising. Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead." And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, "We will hear you again on this matter."

How swell. . .sin causes tornados, earthquakes, genetic diseases, plagues and co . . . .these people and their delusions sef

aletheia:

Yet, biblically and philosophically a third option is that God wants to abolish evil and can, yet He functions on his own timing and He has not done it yet because He has a higher purpose in allowing evil to persist for a time.
.

This is false if we are to really go by what the bible actually says. . . If you read the bible you will see that the god of the bible claims he abhors evil. . .He is alleged to have destroyed the earth through a flood so that he can rid the world of evil, killing every thing that lives just because he wanted to put and end to the evil the exist in the so called hearts of men. . .He sometimes used to come down himself to engage  some alleged evil men in physical battle just to rid his alleged creations of evil. . . .

God did not create the world with evil; it is the result of sin

Some of the extent that you guys go to prove non existent point is truly pathetic, where did you get that?

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6, KJV)

Samuel 16:14-15 states, "But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee."

I do not believe in the passages above about your god creating evil or not , But these passages do not talk about evil being the product of sin do they?

mazaje:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6, KJV)

Samuel 16:14-15 states, "But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee."

I do not believe in the passages above about your god creating evil or not , But these passages do not talk about evil being the product of sin do they?

I notice you were so careful to quote from the KJV, since it translates the Hebrew word ra'ah as evil and thus seems to make your point. So that I would not miss your point you indicate KJV.
Consider the same verses below.

Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.(ESV)

Amo 3:6 Is a trumpet blown in a city, and the people are not afraid? Does disaster come to a city, unless the LORD has done it?(ESV)

1Sa 16:14 Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a harmful spirit from the LORD tormented him.(ESV)

And this: 2Pe 3:15-16 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

The verses in no way impute a manichean duality to YHWH. They indicate that He is sovereign. Totally in control.

As for evil not being the consequence of sin:
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--
Jas 1:13-15 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

But of course this will make no impression on your stony heart since darkness cannot comprehend light: Joh 3:19-20 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.

aletheia:

I notice you were so careful to quote from the KJV, since it translates the Hebrew word ra'ah as evil and thus seems to make your point. So that I would not miss your point you indicate KJV.
Consider the same verses below.

I thought you guys go around bandying this lie that some supernatural force inspired men to write words on his behalf?. . .So your god could not protect his perfect word from translation errors eh?. . .You guys are just too funny. . .

Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.(ESV)

Amo 3:6 Is a trumpet blown in a city, and the people are not afraid? Does disaster come to a city, unless the LORD has done it?(ESV)

1Sa 16:14 Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a harmful spirit from the LORD tormented him.(ESV)

The problem is that there are so many other english translations that use the word evil. . .but that aside, your god says he is responsible for all the disasters that comes to a city, he says he creates all calamities, and he sends a harmful spirit to his servant David. . . yet you guys go around bandying this lie that your god is the embodiment of love who love you guys as a father will love his children. . .will you send a harmful spirit to torment your child whom you love?

And this: 2Pe 3:15-16 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

The verses in no way impute a manichean duality to YHWH. They indicate that He is sovereign. Totally in control.

As for evil not being the consequence of sin:
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--
Jas 1:13-15 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

But of course this will make no impression on your stony heart since darkness cannot comprehend light: Joh 3:19-20 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.

I believe I have addressed all this special pleading in another thread so Next. . . .

mazaje:

The problem is that there are so many other english translations that use the word evil. . .but that aside, your god says he is responsible for all the disasters that comes to a city, he says he creates all calamities, and he sends a harmful spirit to his servant David. . . yet you guys go around bandying this lie that your god is the embodiment of love who love you guys as a father will love his children. . .will you send a harmful spirit to torment your child whom you love?

Perhaps this is recorded in your own version of the bible.

Atheists:

No dummy ! Your analogy is a logical fallacy !

Do you have anything more cerebral to say?

@ Mazaje

I laugh Grin Grin. . . .Flawed human reasoning eh? And your evidence to show that your god has a superior reasoning capability that is greater than that of humans is?. . . . .Human's have flawed reasoning capabilities yet it is ONLY humans and their flawed reasoning capabilities that this god uses all the time to execute his perfect will that is flawless? This all-powerful god who is alleged to be the creator of flawed human is also TOTALLY dependent upon flawed, puny humans and their flawed reasoning to carry out its every wish. It is they who burned heretics and killed infidels and persecuted unbelievers on its behalf, who conducted its "holy wars" to spread its worship or tell others about his will, who convert pagans, build churches or place of worship, hospitals and schools, use their flawed reasoning to find out everything they can about the earth and universe, Use their flawed reasoning to explain to each other how this god supposedly created the earth and the universe and try to explain it to themselves. This all-powerful creator god can do absolutely nothing except work inside people's heads and on their minds which is full of flawed reasoning to execute its wishes. We have never seen it do anything else on its own beside relying on the flawed humans are their flawed reasoning to do everything for it.

ur argument holds no water.

1. God's ability to influence His creaton should not be difficult to understand if one acknowledges that He is the creator. what should be the relationship between a creator and His creation? besides what do u understand by the will of God? how does God's will for man on earth become "sacarstic" for involving the same man who is the beneficiary in the process.

2. how does God depend on humans? all u have said are a desperate recount of anti-God atheistic choruses. . . . .God's design was/is for man to have dominion and live in a sin-less world, thereby having a relationship with His creator. what do u understand by dominion?

3. would it not be ridiculously inept for a creation to be as a intelligent as his creator? can u, mazaje, make a better version of urself?
This explains the rationale of a human with flawed reasoning abilities and a super-intelligent God.

And your evidence to show that this god is capable of preventing evil is?. . . . . .

on what authority and in what capacity do u dismiss the millions of testimonies all over the world?

What about Natural evil like Volcano, earth quakes, diseases, tsunamis, mudslides etc? How were they created by men? As a father its good to teach your son lessons about decorum but will you stand and watch a building collapse on your child even when you have the ability to stop it? Will you stand and watch a stray bullet kill your child even when you have the ability to stop it?

1. they are the prophetic words that reveal the events of the last days. . .read mathew 24.

2. on one hand u claim there is no God, on another hand u accuse Him of the evil in the world. Let me use this medium to shed some light on these issues.
A. there is nothing called EVIL. . . . .evil is a word used to describe the absence of God's will and presence. once Adam and Eve sinned, death/evil entered the world. . they were exposed to the naked world and its inherent "realities". Sin is also simply the disobedience of God's commandments.
If u dont believe that Adam and Eve's sins is the source of evil as we have it today. . then u should not also believe that there is anything called evil.

Ok so your god made a consious choice not to prevent the evil that befall on his beloved children eh? Interesting. . . .

u keep missing the point.

The major ontological attribute of any living being/entity is the liberty to make choices. why is God's liberty to make His choices a subject of concern to ur analyses.
We do know according to the psalmist that the thoughts of God are very deep. . . . . .that way a true xtian learns to submit to the will of the father.

Your child will definitely wonder why he should call you father if he truly knows that you have the ability to stop a stray bullet from hitting him as a result of a shooting that has nothing to do with him or stop a building from collapsing on his head but refused to do so despite you claming that you love him and will always protect him. . . .Dense indeed. . . . .

considering David's initial response. . . . I find ur response here irrelevant. I think the choices here are straight forward.

Epicurus was not even arguing against the christian god, He was arguing against the existence of the greek god/gods as described by the proponents of that god hypothesis. . . .And amongst the attributes of these god/gods were the promise to protect people from evil if they believe. . .So the question is of what use is a god that promises to protect people but fails? Even your bible makes a taller claim by promising people protection. . . .It even says that people that believe shall drink poison and not be hurt, snakes shall bite people and nothing will happen to them. . .That is not what we see around no? So of what use are all these promise of protection believers bandy about when the evidence seen around contradict their claims and hypothesis?. . . .

This is both escapist and of no effect.

1. from the OP, we can deduce that the context of the quote in use here is for God and not the greek gods as u would have us believe.

2. ur theological understanding of protection is deeply flawed. what protection did God promise? protection from what? how does God's will relate to this promise?
mazaje, faith issues are not subjects related to rocket science.

@noetic15

I respect your convictions and we will always disagree over all these things. . . .I understand the theological explanations to all these things, I was just trying to point out that Epicurus was making his arguments based on the idea that was set before him. By the way he wasn't a christian or a jew. He was a greek philosopher and they greeks during his time had their own Gods that were different from the christian God at that time. . . . .He was using the problem of evil to make his case against the non existence of the Gods/God which I believe was well stated. I am not trying to blame any God for the evil we see around you should know my position by now. . . .I was just pointing to the problem of evil and using the argument as he has done to support my position. . . .

mazaje:

@noetic15

I respect your convictions and we will always disagree over all these things. . . .I understand the theological explanations to all these things, I was just trying to point out that Epicurus was making his arguments based on the idea that was set before him. By the way he wasn't a christian or a jew. He was a greek philosopher and they greeks during his time had their own Gods that were different from the christian God at that time. . . . .He was using the problem of evil to make his case against the non existence of the Gods/God which I believe was well stated. I am not trying to blame any God for the evil we see around you should know my position by now. . . .I was just pointing to the problem of evil and using the argument as he has done to support my position. . . .

It is logically nonsensical. Would Epicurus then use the goodness and complexity of the earth to make a case for the existence of a God?

davidylan:

It is logically nonsensical. Would Epicurus then use the goodness and complexity of the earth to make a case for the existence of a God?

He doesn't need to do that since all the proponents of the God hypothesis use that argument to make a case for their various Gods. . . .Non of them ever uses the problem of evil when making a case for their God/Gods. . . .

Biblically and philosophically, Epicurus’ first syllogistic point is false since a perfectly good God who allows free will can exist and thus, his syllogism fails

.

I knew it was only a matter of time before someone brought up the free will argument. Tell me where is the free will of an innocent six year old who is molested by roman catholic priest ? Where is the free will of a young girl in the DRC who is repeatedly raped by rebels and infected with aids ? Where is the free will of a small kid who is accused of being a witch by self proclaimed man of god ? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence !