kerryjossy:
This is a good write up. I agree with the Op. Believers have been crucified with Christ, buried with Him and raised to newness of life. We dont '' help God' with His "finished work". Grace is God's liberating method.

Besides, we are not called to be part of law, we are called to be apart from the law.#Rom7:7-13.

Thank you, am happy you know the truth.

eph12:

The laws that we cannot ignore are the ten commandments of which love God and your neighbour as yourself tops them all. How do you expect people to ignore this? And why should we? You can't claim to be saved by grace and ignore those commandments. What kind of grace is that? I never said salvation is by law or works but if you say we can keep malice or hate our neighbour and claim to be saved by grace you lie.

The commandment came to be to guide us.

As a matter of fact, without the commandment, everyone knows a wrong from the right. Remember that Sodom and Gomorrah never had any commandment before they were destroyed neither did Lot's wife before she turned into salt.

The Law was only given to guide us as well as thrusting them into our face everyday to constantly remind us, however this method was inadequate because we still have the nature of sin in us and that was why Christ needed to die.

Remember the scripture tells us that "A time would come when God's law would be written in our heart", that is, it would be the new life in us that would be doing this law by heart with no effort from our weak flesh. You wouldn't even know what's happening except that you're no more living in sin but in righteousness effortlessly. Prior to this, it was difficult to live righteously. Paul stated that "He finds himself doing things that he hated because of the nature of sin in him" but once this nature is rooted out, you would have no reason not to abide in the truth.

Another reason why the scripture keeps reminding us that Christ came into this world as a flesh and not a spirit. He was a flesh like us who was tempted by satan, pharisee, women, even had an emotion and a fear of being humiliated in front of the crowds and that was why he cried at the garden of gethsamene for God to take away the cup from him but regardless of everything, he never succumbed to any of these and overcame everything to show us that human can also overcome and live as righteous as him if they operate under the grace he had but for the grace to abound, he had to die and be taken up.

Hence, if Christ has done all the work already, why die trying? However, this doesn't mean you should go looking for sin to swim in..

Triplehawkeyes:
Matt 13;13-16, I love you my brother, you have gladdened my heart and filled my day, thank you.

As for scripture I quoted , understand that somethings would always remain a mystery to people until it is revealed to them 2 Tim that the servant of God should be gentle to teach, no matter how hard or soundly you teach it they won't understand cause it has not been given to them to understand.

So be patient and pray that the truth of God's message would shine on their hearts, remember the word us light, it illuminates.

Thank you my bro, i understand. The truth is still a mystery to many but its gradually shining too.

bomsilaga:

It's a renewal of mind thing.
When grace is at work in your life, you hardly contemplate sin. The divine power of God in you doesn't allow you to fall wholely into that sin.
Mind you that the reference scripture is where sin abounds, grace abounds even more.
Also, seven times shall a righteous man sin, yea these seven times he shall rise again.
The grace of God makes you see sin for what it is and exposes divine ways to overcome your next exposure.
By experience, I found out that there are certain things, I just can't indulge in and the list keeps on growing.

Exactly!

There some certain things that I found difficult doing now even though I was doing them before. I know I'm still not perfect in every area but I know the Lord who has started his work will finish everything indefinitely.

Those who misunderstand and quote this verse to
us “grace people” also seem to believe that all
we want to do is sin when the exact opposite is
the case (only by God's grace are we this way!)
Like our heavenly Father, we “grace people” hate
sin with a passion!

No, you people want to wallow in iniquity. In fact, all these teachings are from the devil, to take the heart of men away from God. To kill God consciousness, godly sorrow for sin, to make people comfortable with evil, and then entrench the "Do whatever thou will" order of the anti Christ.

When the heart of men have been worked on, the devil will now take charge.

These teaching is in preparation for the anti Christ. "that man of sin"


Ecclesiastes 12:13 (KJV) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.


This is the whole duty of man, you can't mask the commandments of God with grace.

Titus 2:11-12 (KJV) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;


This is what Grace is about.

Nairaland has emphasised all these your heresy because, it's going to be a Devils tool, unless by God's intervention. Believe it or not

ndcide:



No, you people want to wallow in iniquity. In fact, all these teachings are from the devil, to take the heart of men away from God. To kill God consciousness, godly sorrow for sin, to make people comfortable with evil, and then entrench the "Do whatever thou will" order of the anti Christ.

When the heart of men have been worked on, the devil will now take charge.

These teaching is in preparation for the anti Christ. "that man of sin"


Ecclesiastes 12:13 (KJV) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.


This is the whole duty of man, you can't mask the commandments of God with grace.

Titus 2:11-12 (KJV) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;


This is what Grace is about.

Nairaland has emphasised all these your heresy because, it's going to be a Devils tool, unless by God's intervention. Believe it or not

The work of grace is more than 1.

Salvation, Sanctification

eameh30:

Absolutely wonderful... If only preachers can know that they don't have to help God to make people feel right but preach the truth and life will be transformed...
God is not interested in behavior modification, God wants to see life transformed, be transformed by keep on hearing this good news 'the Grace'. Grace transformed us and not modify our behavior and it is only when you are transformed that you can live a life free from sin

There you have it, you want to be a Christian that is not different from those in the world.

You claim to be saved by grace, yet no change. What the heck is that?

eph12:

I guess I am misunderstanding you then.

But to be very clear, if I'm to ask God for forgiveness of sin today, am I under law or grace?

If asking God for forgiveness is what your heart tells u to do then do it, it's not a harm at all, it's all based on level of understanding. But this is what the word says, your sins are not forgiven simply because you told God you are sorry and you asked nicely. Your sins must be punished, if God sweeps then under the carpet simply because u said sorry, then that would make God unjust. The reason our sins are forgiven is because our sins (present, past and future sins) have already been punished on the cross in Christ. Christ offered remission for our sins. Now where Christians have an issue is whether the sins Christ paid for are only for past sins, but the word doesn't leave us in the dark as regards that. We are forgiven of past, present and future sins by the single sacrifice of Christ on the cross Hebrews 10:12-18. . Non of them escaped. We live forgiven. So it's not wrong to confess to God when we miss it, and also thank him for already punishing Christ, instead of us.

Op,so you are trying to say that when I am 'saved by grace',I suddenly become immune to sin because christ has transformed me abi?

ZORO47:
If asking God for forgiveness is what your heart tells u to do then do it, it's not a harm at all, it's all based on level of understanding. But this is what the word says, your sins are not forgiven simply because you told God you are sorry and you asked nicely. Your sins must be punished, if God sweeps then under the carpet simply because u said sorry, then that would make God unjust. The reason our sins are forgiven is because our sins (present, past and future sins) have already been punished on the cross in Christ. Christ offered remission for our sins. Now where Christians have an issue is whether the sins Christ paid for are only for past sins, but the word doesn't leave us in the dark as regards that. We are forgiven of past, present and future sins by the single sacrifice of Christ on the cross Hebrews 10:12-18. . Non of them escaped. We live forgiven. So it's not wrong to confess to God when we miss it, and also thank him for already punishing Christ, instead of us.

So no more hell fire for you as long as you believe in christ abi?

OlaSammie:


So no more hell fire for you as long as you believe in christ abi?

It sounds too good to be true right?! That's why it's called "good news" it's news too good to be true. I wonder what is good about telling a sex addict or an alcoholic to stop his bad behaviours in order to make heaven. That's what I used to preach before as "good news" but is there anything good about that news? Can a chain smoker on his own stop smoking or a sex addict stop fornicating in order for him or her to work his way into heaven? He can only try for a period of time and fall back to the same habit. But grace removes one from the law, where sin dominates, and places man in Christ where righteousness rules. there is tremendous pOwer in the realm of grace, and I'm not saying that cos I read it in a book, but because I've exerienced it for myself. Only when you embrace the gospel of grace before you can actually exp that "God writing his law on our hearts" in Jer 31:33 ; Heb 10:16. Note that it is God that does the "writing" on the hearts, not man. Those verses still don't involve your responsibility, but God's. Just rest in him and his provision. That is faith.

Diademk07:


Exactly!

There some certain things that I found difficult doing now even though I was doing them before. I know I'm still not perfect in every area but I know the Lord who has started his work will finish everything indefinitely.

This is my hope and stay. My assurance that I am saved.

ZORO47:
It sounds too good to be true right?! That's why it's called "good news" it's news too good to be true. I wonder what is good about telling a sex addict or an alcoholic to stop his bad behaviours in order to make heaven. That's what I used to preach before as "good news" but is there anything good about that news? Can a chain smoker on his own stop smoking or a sex addict stop fornicating in order for him or her to work his way into heaven? He can only try for a period of time and fall back to the same habit. But grace removes one from the law, where sin dominates, and places man in Christ where righteousness rules. there is tremendous pOwer in the realm of grace, and I'm not saying that cos I read it in a book, but because I've exerienced it for myself. Only when you embrace the gospel of grace before you can actually exp that "God writing his law on our hearts" in Jer 31:33 ; Heb 10:16. Note that it is God that does the "writing" on the hearts, not man. Those verses still don't involve your responsibility, but God's. Just rest in him and his provision. That is faith.

Don't stress too much, when they experience that grace they won't even contact you.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him shall have eternal life.
I don't know what other eternal life we are talking about.

OlaSammie:


So no more hell fire for you as long as you believe in christ abi?

Yes! My judgment will be by a different set of criteria.

DickDastardly:

Christianity is living like Christ. Christ lived a pure life, 10 commandments observation inclusive. To follow Christ we must be like him. Stop teaching people wickedness. This kind of write up is the reason todays Church is a total mockery of the life of Christ. GRACE this, GRACE that, bla bla bla. How can one ignore Gods 10 Commandments and expect him to be pleased. GOD has not changed. He remains the God of old. And Christ warned against twisting the words of his father when he said, do not add nor subtract.
Stop creating ANTI CHRISTS with this kind of senseless and silly teachings. Christians must learn how to live piously like Christ, if not we will sooner or later erode Christianity by our own very hands while ignorantly waiting for an immaginary ANTI CHRIST. There is no amount of grace that can save a sinner.

Can u live like Christ by ur own determination? Grace is what enables Peter find his way after betraying his master. Grace abides when we make conscious efforts to be perfect.

This is total false doctrine. I can't just watch some people see this rubbish where you are abusing grace and then get confused. Now let me point out something to you, from your post, it is obvious that you are in love with sin and you have never been willing to turn away from your sins even after you gave your life to Christ (now I am not even sure of your salvation because any salvation that doesn't address the sins is not really salvation, actually, not really genuine salvation. Now open your bible to Matt5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.", here, what was Jesus talking about is sinless perfection, being perfect and fleeing from all sins. He has redeemed us but he expects us to live a holy life! In Heb12:14 "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord", he has not called us unto holiness but unto holiness. For us to live righteously and in 1Thess4:7 "For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.", as Christians, we have a call unto holiness and now to live a sinful life, if we obey all of the law and offend in one, we are guilty of all according to James2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.". Come on, you might still be thinking you have liberty if you keep on sinning, no! you don't! I would not want you to ever regret this kind of believe. Let us see this, In 1John 1:8-9 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (vs 9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.". My brother I tell you, are you born again? You might say yes but the next question I would ask you is do you commit sin? If yes also, the bible has said "whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin!", what are we saying here, recheck your salvation and reread your bible to know the truth!
Please stop spreading heresis and stop believing in false doctrine!
You can call me on 08179469614 for more, I guess you are also a student
@jiggaz

ndcide:


There you have it, you want to be a Christian that is not different from those in the world.

You claim to be saved by grace, yet no change. What the heck is that?

what has the law done for you? Tell us. Did all the laws in the bible and from your pastors wane your desires for that very sin or strengthen it? 1 corinthians 15:56b. Think about that

pachman:
This is total false doctrine. I can't just watch some people see this rubbish where you are abusing grace and then get confused. Now let me point out something to you, from your post, it is obvious that you are in love with sin and you have never been willing to turn away from your sins even after you gave your life to Christ (now I am not even sure of your salvation because any salvation that doesn't address the sins is not really salvation, actually, not really genuine salvation. Now open your bible to Matt5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.", here, what was Jesus talking about is sinless perfection, being perfect and fleeing from all sins. He has redeemed us but he expects us to live a holy life! In Heb12:14 "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord", he has not called us unto holiness but unto holiness. For us to live righteously and in 1Thess4:7 "For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.", as Christians, we have a call unto holiness and now to live a sinful life, if we obey all of the law and offend in one, we are guilty of all according to James2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.". Come on, you might still be thinking you have liberty if you keep on sinning, no! you don't! I would not want you to ever regret this kind of believe. Let us see this, In 1John 1:8-9 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (vs 9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.". My brother I tell you, are you born again? You might say yes but the next question I would ask you is do you commit sin? If yes also, the bible has said "whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin!", what are we saying here, recheck your salvation and reread your bible to know the truth!
Please stop spreading heresis and stop believing in false doctrine!
You can call me on 08179469614 for more, I guess you are also a student
@jiggaz

no one can meet up with these conditions you listed, so no one would ever make heaven if u go by thoe requirements of the law. That's why christ had to come to die so we can place our faith in him. Gal 3:19-25. why did you dodge all the bible verses op quoted?. Here, lemme refresh your mind of some of them Romans 3:20, "For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands.." Romans 4:5, "but people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners" Rom 3:28, "..so we are made right with God through faith, and not by obeying the law" Gal 2:16, "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.. 21."..if righteousness could come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain"..I don't know how else to understand these scritures listed., they are simple english. If you understood something contrary from them, share with us

ZORO47:
no one can meet up with these conditions you listed, so no one would ever make heaven if u go by thoe requirements of the law. That's why christ had to come to die so we can place our faith in him. Gal 3:19-25. why did you dodge all the bible verses op quoted?. Here, lemme refresh your mind of some of them Romans 3:20, "For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands.." Romans 4:5, "but people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners" Rom 3:28, "..so we are made right with God through faith, and not by obeying the law" Gal 2:16, "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.. 21."..if righteousness could come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain"..I don't know how else to understand these scritures listed., they are simple english. If you understood something contrary from them, share with us

Please answer these first few questions
1. Do you agree entirely with what the OP is saying
2. If yes to q1, do you enjoy living the life of sin that you live
3. Do you think Christ lived a sinful life and He expects us to live the same even after He ascended
4. Are you sanctified or you are still getting sanctified
5. Does the bible encourage holiness and what is your definition of holiness

ZORO47:
no one can meet up with these conditions you listed, so no one would ever make heaven if u go by thoe requirements of the law. That's why christ had to come to die so we can place our faith in him. Gal 3:19-25. why did you dodge all the bible verses op quoted?. Here, lemme refresh your mind of some of them Romans 3:20, "For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands.." Romans 4:5, "but people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners" Rom 3:28, "..so we are made right with God through faith, and not by obeying the law" Gal 2:16, "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.. 21."..if righteousness could come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain"..I don't know how else to understand these scritures listed., they are simple english. If you understood something contrary from them, share with us

My broda thank you for all your write ups... seriously i don't bother with modern day Pharisees anymore.... Grace has been made available for all, if they reject it all well and good. But am sooo happy that the Gospel of Grace have taken over the world.... Forget all these Nairaland Pharisees they don't understand it. I just pray that they let the Holy Spirit teach them and not allow man made religion blind them.

My own is to be dropping Grace articles here on Nairaland. I know many people who write me to thank me for bringing these articles and how it changed their lives.... So am not bothered with the Pharisees. Christ and Him alone must be glorified and not man!!

Grace is a person and it is Jesus Christ!!! Am happy you know the truth bro....

ZORO47:
no one can meet up with these conditions you listed, so no one would ever make heaven if u go by thoe requirements of the law. That's why christ had to come to die so we can place our faith in him. Gal 3:19-25. why did you dodge all the bible verses op quoted?. Here, lemme refresh your mind of some of them Romans 3:20, "For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands.." Romans 4:5, "but people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners" Rom 3:28, "..so we are made right with God through faith, and not by obeying the law" Gal 2:16, "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.. 21."..if righteousness could come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain"..I don't know how else to understand these scritures listed., they are simple english. If you understood something contrary from them, share with us

We can meet up with the requirements, the bible has told us to flee from all appearance of evil. Look at Joseph, do you think because he was following God, he should have slept with Potiphers wife, remember his statement "how can I do this great wickedness and sin against God". He knew what sin could do. The same effect sin had is still the same effect sin has now!

Actually, I didn't finish reading all the scriptural verses the OP was listing because I knew where he was heading to after some few things! I have seen so many cases like that So I didn't even bother to quote any of that. Now, for anyone to accept what the OP is saying, that means the person is really a lover of SIN

I would like to share something that some of us might not understand and I didn't want to bring up before
When you are saved, you are cleansed from all external sins among them which are lying, stealing, backbiting and so many other things that you can control.
There are still some internal sins, like envy, malice, lust, covetousness, anger and many other things that come from the heart that people can not see, that is the need for sanctification (purification). Open your bible to Ezekiel36:26 "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh". This is the scriptural sanctification, when one gets sanctified, the desire for all these is lost but sanctification does not come but by prayer. Open your bible to John 17:17-20 "17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; ", here, Jesus was praying for His disciples to be sanctified, and also we that should come after! But sanctification takes the desire away and the experience of sanctification is one that would help you to live you christian life with ease and without struggle, but you dont get sanctified if you dont pray and you dont believe. You need to get the bible and understand it
Matt 5:8 tells us that "blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God". What does purity mean. God is not a man that He should lie, he would not tell us to do what He knows we cannot do, follow peace with all men and holiness without which noman shall see the Lord. Be ye holy for I am holy... All these were found in the new testament during the period of grcae so what are we saying?

jiggaz:
My broda thank you for all your write ups... seriously i don't bother with modern day Pharisees anymore.... Grace has been made available for all, if they reject it all well and good. But am sooo happy that the Gospel of Grace have taken over the world.... Forget all these Nairaland Pharisees they don't understand it. I just pray that they let the Holy Spirit teach them and not allow man made religion blind them.

My own is to be dropping Grace articles here on Nairaland. I know many people who write me to thank me for bringing these articles and how it changed their lives.... So am not bothered with the Pharisees. Christ and Him alone must be glorified and not man!!

Grace is a person and it is Jesus Christ!!! Am happy you know the truth bro....

Please answer these first few questions
1. Do you agree entirely with what the OP is saying
2. If yes to q1, do you enjoy living the life of sin that you live
3. Do you think Christ lived a sinful life and He expects us to live the same even after He ascended
4. Are you sanctified or you are still getting sanctified
5. Does the bible encourage holiness and what is your definition of holiness

Jiggaz, how far
U can also answer these questions

pachman:
This is total false doctrine. I can't just watch some people see this rubbish where you are abusing grace and then get confused. Now let me point out something to you, from your post, it is obvious that you are in love with sin and you have never been willing to turn away from your sins even after you gave your life to Christ (now I am not even sure of your salvation because any salvation that doesn't address the sins is not really salvation, actually, not really genuine salvation. Now open your bible to Matt5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.", here, what was Jesus talking about is sinless perfection, being perfect and fleeing from all sins. He has redeemed us but he expects us to live a holy life! In Heb12:14 "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord", he has not called us unto holiness but unto holiness. For us to live righteously and in 1Thess4:7 "For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.", as Christians, we have a call unto holiness and now to live a sinful life, if we obey all of the law and offend in one, we are guilty of all according to James2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.". Come on, you might still be thinking you have liberty if you keep on sinning, no! you don't! I would not want you to ever regret this kind of believe. Let us see this, In 1John 1:8-9 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (vs 9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.". My brother I tell you, are you born again? You might say yes but the next question I would ask you is do you commit sin? If yes also, the bible has said "whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin!", what are we saying here, recheck your salvation and reread your bible to know the truth!
Please stop spreading heresis and stop believing in false doctrine!
You can call me on 08179469614 for more, I guess you are also a student
@jiggaz

No, keep your number, i don't need it. And no, am not a student, far from it.

From your write up, you are ignorant of God's word and obviously a modern day Pharisee and i have met so many of you here. Please ask the Holy Spirit to teach you God's word through the lenses of the finished work of Christ. Don't juxtapose the old covenant with the new cos when you do, you became confused.

There is something called Dividing the word of truth... The words of Christ in the Gospels before His death under the old covenant with the Jews and his words in the epistles under the new covenant for the Gentile church.... I have so many things to say but i don't want unnecessary argument. Just ask the Holy Spirit for help cos you are still faaaaaaar behind!!!! You still have alot of things to learn.

And you know what? you can call me names, i don't care oo. I don't care about the opinion of men, i only care about Christ Jesus and am anchored in Him. I am Christ-Confident cos i know He is the One keeping me. So the opinion of men is of zero importance to me.

And please run along cos i have dismissed you, i don't argue or super-impose things on people. Its a free world. Have a nice day.

jiggaz:
No, keep your number, i don't need it. And no, am not a student, far from it.

From your write up, you are ignorant of God's word and obviously a modern day Pharisee and i have met so many of you here. Please ask the Holy Spirit to teach you God's word through the lenses of the finished work of Christ. Don't juxtapose the old covenant with the new cos when you do, you became confused.

There is something called Dividing the word of truth... The words of Christ in the Gospels before His death under the old covenant with the Jews and his words in the epistles under the new covenant for the Gentile church.... I have so many things to say but i don't want unnecessary argument. Just ask the Holy Spirit for help cos you are still faaaaaaar behind!!!! You still have alot of things to learn.

And you know what? you can call me names, i don't care oo. I don't care about the opinion of men, i only care about Christ Jesus and am anchored in Him. I am Christ-Confident cos i know He is the One keeping me. So the opinion of men is of zero importance to me.

And please run along cos i have dismissed you, i don't argue or super-impose things on people. Its a free world. Have a nice day.

Please can u gv me ur number let us discuss one or two things

Your teaching is right but incomplete. We are indeed free from d law. Law came through Moses while Grace and Truth came through our Lord Jesus Christ. To make this clear. The law was given to reveal Sin. You can't keep this law by your own human power becos the body is weak and the power to keep this law has been placed in Christ Jesus. The good news is dat God sent Christ Jesus to liberate d world from sin and other thing . Every follower of Christ is now under "The Law of Christ" this law is easy to bare and obey becos there is an helper (holyspirit) in u. It is d same law in old testament. Remember in d scripture where Jesus said "i come not to destroy the law but to fulfill it". Jesus fulfilled all this law and he expect us to do d same. But our body is weak, so God in his mercy and grace decided to send us an helper in order to live an holy life as Christ did. When u accept Jesus and u are baptise, u av died with sin and reborn into righteousness meaning u are not to sin anymore. The holyspirit is a free gift for every believer. The spirit is to help, direct and guide u to your journey in life and to lead u back home (heaven). Once u accept Jesus, this law will be rewrite into your heart. One of d work of d holyspirit is to always bring the law into your remembrance any time u want to sin. U do not av to worry about the law itself anymore becos u are sure that d holyspirit is there to help u. U will always hear d voice of d spirit whenever u want to sin, it is now left for u to decide whether to obey d voice or disobey. God want us to obey d spirit always so as to be perfect but some people are stubborn, they will want to disobey d voice to follow their canal desire and if u do this continuously, d spirit will hide himself from u becos your body is his temple, meaning wat is holy cannot live with wat is unholy. D more u obey d spirit's voice the more u will move closer to God and ur destiny. becos u will be able to worship God in spirit and truth and d more u disobey, d more u will move away from God. Grace is plenty, it has so many branches, grace as a believer is one thing, grace as unbeliever is another, grace as a believer is when u fall, u can always restart again becos of abundance grace of God. God will always accept u back but u are bringing destruction to yourself if u continue to sin, u are also delaying ur spiritual life and ur destiny each time u backside and reconcile again. u won't grow as u ought to grow. So as a believer, Learn to depend on your spirit not d law then u will be able to live a righteous life as Christ did. God want us to stop sinning after accepting Christ. He has made d law easy to keep, by sending us d Holyspirit. As a believer, u need to make a decision to live by your spirit everyday so that u will always be an overcomer over sin, over Satan and over every challenges of life. The same law of Moses was renew by Christ Jesus which is now called The law of spirit.

In addition to what I said in the morning, this is what grace is all about:

Titus 2:11-15 NLT
11 For the grace of God has been revealed, bringing salvation to all people.
12 And we are instructed to turn from godless living and sinful pleasures. We should live in this evil world with wisdom, righteousness, and devotion to God,
13 while we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed.
14 He gave his life to free us from every kind of sin, to cleanse us, and to make us his very own people, totally committed to doing good deeds.
15 You must teach these things and encourage the believers to do them. You have the authority to correct them when necessary, so don’t let anyone disregard what you say.


The bible says we are to come to the throne of grace to obtain mercy and also to receive grace to help us...grace helps us to live according to the law of the Spirit...which fulfils the law of God.

pachman:


Please answer these first few questions
1. Do you agree entirely with what the OP is saying
2. If yes to q1, do you enjoy living the life of sin that you live
3. Do you think Christ lived a sinful life and He expects us to live the same even after He ascended
4. Are you sanctified or you are still getting sanctified
5. Does the bible encourage holiness and what is your definition of holiness

well I won't answer any of those. I just believe the bible now, not popular opinion. And I don't judge anyone cos all we who now believe the gospel of grace, once had the same ideas and views about grace and law just like you do. We all heard the gospel msg then too and shoved it off as well as false doctrine. But when we decided to take the word for what it says, rather than what we were taught in sunday school, we could finally see.
Just one last observation. If u check the post of every one standing for the law on this thread, you would notice one thing, sin is always on their mind. The law keeps them always concious of sin and self. Look at how many times you made mention of 'sin' and 'self' in your questions, making me to size myself based on my performance. You mentioned christ only once. That's exactly what the law does. Keeps you self concious and puts Christ at the background. Grace Keeps you Christ concious and you don't even see yourself anymore because under grace, you and all your sinful nature, are actually dead Rom 6:2-3.

I would conclude with this story of an ex-atheist I stumbled on online. He testified that he saw Jesus as different from other historical figures of old. This was because where Ghandi pointed people to admirable words of wisdom, Mohammad, Buddha and several other religious leaders of old he mentioned pointed people to all the laws/things they should do to please God and gain acceptance with him, but this man Jesus was different because he wasn't pointing people to laws, rules or words of wisdom, he was pointing people to himself as the ONLY way to God. That audacity made him unique from other men that have existed in history. That got me thinking. While we christians read the bible and see laws and more laws, this atheist read the bible and saw Christ. I pray the Holy Spirit give us all understanding to really see and know.

ZORO47:
well I won't answer any of those. I just believe the bible now, not popular opinion. And I don't judge anyone cos all we who now believe the gospel of grace, once had the same ideas and views about grace and law just like you do. We all heard the gospel msg then too and shoved it off as well as false doctrine. But when we decided to take the word for what it says, rather than what we were taught in sunday school, we could finally see.
Just one last observation. If u check the post of every one standing for the law on this thread, you would notice one thing, sin is always on their mind. The law keeps them always concious of sin and self. Look at how many times you made mention of 'sin' and 'self' in your questions, making me to size myself based on my performance. You mentioned christ only once. That's exactly what the law does. Keeps you self concious and puts Christ at the background. Grace Keeps you Christ concious and you don't even see yourself anymore because under grace, you and all your sinful nature, are actually dead Rom 6:2-3.

I would conclude with this story of an ex-atheist I stumbled on online. He testified that he saw Jesus as different from other historical figures of old. This was because where Ghandi pointed people to admirable words of wisdom, Mohammad, Buddha and several other religious leaders of old he mentioned pointed people to all the laws/things they should do to please God and gain acceptance with him, but this man Jesus was different because he wasn't pointing people to laws, rules or words of wisdom, he was pointing people to himself as the ONLY way to God. That audacity made him unique from other men that have existed in history. That got me thinking. While we christians read the bible and see laws and more laws, this atheist read the bible and saw Christ. I pray the Holy Spirit give us all understanding to really see and know.

I actually think we should be self concious,so that we won't get carried away with the world,sin,lose our focus(which is heaven) and lose our holiness in christ.

Why did the bible tell us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling? That's the problem with you guys. You guys don't want to believe that you can lose your salvation. Even the bible said those that think are strong(in faith) should take heed lest they fall(where do you think they are falling to?)

When you are saved,you don't automatically become like angels that can't sin again because you guys claim christ will transform you to a kind of being that won't be able to sin again. That's pure deceit! You will still get that urge to go back to those things you claimed to forsake and a lot of temptation will happen.

Now this is where grace comes in, as a person who does not want to fall(lose his salvation),you go to God and ask God for grace to remain in righteousness, grace to remain holy,grace to resist temptation. That's what grace is for. It gives you the strength to say NO to sin,to remain steadfast in God.

And remember,without holiness no man shall see God(make heaven). Jesus himself said that we should be perfect just as his father in heaven(God) is perfect. So you are trying to say he didn't know what he was saying when he said that? He can't tell us to do what is impossible. So claiming perfection is impossible is a lie because Jesus told us to be perfect.

And concerning the hell fire issue,if you are not found holy and perfect before God then you won't make it to heaven(yea! Hard truth). This issue is so serious that Jesus said it plainly that if any part of our body would cause us to SIN(which definitely lead to hell),we should cut it off. So why should I not be concious of sin. In fact if I am a spirit filled Christian and I am not concious of sin,the holy spirit in me start to caution me so that I won't fall in sin unconciously. Especially sin that easily besetts.

My dear 'grace' brothers and sisters,don't be deceived by the lying and seducing spirits of the end time. Jesus himself told us to stay away from sin.

Sorry OP. U got to stop this teaching if truly u av d holyspirit inside u. This teaching is totally out of line. Grace has so many branches. I understand the kind of grace u are trying to emphasise but the true meaning of it is not this false teaching at all. Pls stop misleading new convert and some Christians whose faith is not strong yet.... Remember this scripture "if any man be in Christ he is a new creature, all things have passed away, behold all things have become new". As a follower of Christ u are to encloth urself with righteousness not sin. Yes there is abundance of grace but Thinking grace has cover and u can continue to live in sin is totally false teaching. Sorry to say bro such mentality is from devil not from God. God is holy and he want us to be holy also. We know we are not under law of Moses anymore but law of spirit and i want u to know dat it is d same law just that it was renew into spirit. old commandment requires using ur physical body to keep d law. Which we can't obey becos d body is weak. As we all know, back then when u disobey d law, ur judgment and punishment happen instantly by putting u to death. No much mercy and grace like this back then, but now the grace and mercy is full in abundance becos of d finished work of Christ. I want u to know that the same judgment and punishment still happen. The holyspirit condemn us whenever we fall into temptation which means he want us to make things right with God by asking for forgiveness and move-on on our Christian journey. God can overlook d sin atimes by mercy and he can decided to punish us so dat we will learn from our mistake. The fact dat he punish u doesn't mean he didn't love u or he hasn't forgiven u. He just want u to learn from ur mistake which shows that God love u very much, he doesn't want u to perish. U can use ur earthly father to learn more. As a beliver who continue to sin. Yes God is always ready to forgive if u decide to repent and if u continue ur sin again, he will still give u more grace to repent again and over again but u don't know wen d grace will fold up. Death can knock at anytime or Christ can come at any time so stop sinning. There is also wat we call "special grace". This kind of grace is not for everybody but very few people (one in thousands). As i said earlier, In old testament, anyone who sin will be put to death instantly after judging guilty. The same physical death back then as been changed into spiritual death now. If u are a believer who is a slave to sin, if u still love sin, it means u are dead spiritually. Your Christian life won't be effective and productive and God will cut u off from his family. u will only be a Christian by mouth not knowing u are dead b4 God but d good news is that God is ready to accept u back anytime u decide to stop sinning and u will be made alive spiritually again. this was a grace apostle Paul was talking about. So stop twisting scripture is satisfy ur body. follow wat d holyspirit tells u not wat ur body want. The law of d spirit is easy becos u av an helper (a perfect spirit) inside u. Repent bro!

OlaSammie:


I actually think we should be self concious,so that we won't get carried away with the world,sin,lose our focus(which is heaven) and lose our holiness in christ.

Why did the bible tell us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling? That's the problem with you guys. You guys don't want to believe that you can lose your salvation. Even the bible said those that think are strong(in faith) should take heed lest they fall(where do you think they are falling to?)

When you are saved,you don't automatically become like angels that can't sin again because you guys claim christ will transform you to a kind of being that won't be able to sin again. That's pure deceit! You will still get that urge to go back to those things you claimed to forsake and a lot of temptation will happen.

Now this is where grace comes in, as a person who does not want to fall(lose his salvation),you go to God and ask God for grace to remain in righteousness, grace to remain holy,grace to resist temptation. That's what grace is for. It gives you the strength to say NO to sin,to remain steadfast in God.

And remember,without holiness no man shall see God(make heaven). Jesus himself said that we should be perfect just as his father in heaven(God) is perfect. So you are trying to say he didn't know what he was saying when he said that? He can't tell us to do what is impossible. So claiming perfection is impossible is a lie because Jesus told us to be perfect.

And concerning the hell fire issue,if you are not found holy and perfect before God then you won't make it to heaven(yea! Hard truth). This issue is so serious that Jesus said it plainly that if any part of our body would cause us to SIN(which definitely lead to hell),we should cut it off. So why should I not be concious of sin. In fact if I am a spirit filled Christian and I am not concious of sin,the holy spirit in me start to caution me so that I won't fall in sin unconciously. Especially sin that easily besetts.

My dear 'grace' brothers and sisters,don't be deceived by the lying and seducing spirits of the end time. Jesus himself told us to stay away from sin.

the issue is you think that the law and Jesus is the same. No its not. The law came through moses, but Grace and truth came through Jesus. You see, even truth is on the side of Christ, not on the side of the law. It's just in your best interest to understand wht Jesus suffered and died to make available for you and then receive it. If Jesus and the law were the same, he would have been the best friend of the pharisees and saducees. But he never called thief's, tax collectors and harlots "brood of vipers" "hypocrites" and those sort of harsh words, rather he used them on those who upheld the law rather than Christ (pharisees). You have to rightly divide the word of truth. There is law and there is Grace in the same bible. You don't live under the law anymore, the rules have changed now cos you live under Grace. It's in your best interest to know what this Grace realm gives freely, cos u could spend ur life working for something that Christ has already died to obtain for you. I understand your zeal and passion cos I was once there, but look at Romans 10, it speaks of zeal without knowledge as regards righteousness of the law and righteousness by grace. Get the right knowledge as regards the law and grace. What would battle you now is all the knowledge uve gathered from sunday school rather than the bible. May God help you.

Nothing is bad for preaching about grace. It can changed life positively if preached right and it can destroy many Christian lifes if thought wrongly. Infact, it is a very good topic to preach on but u must be very careful on it lest u destroy urself and many believer with ur so call understanding. pastors are always conscious of preaching it so dat on judgment day their words won't be used against them. As OP was saying, u don't need to be conscious of sin too much. Just allow the holyspirit to operate, listen to him always then all forms of sin in u will disappear gradually (as long as u determine not to sin anymore). U don't need to struggle too much to fight ur sin. But Becos we are under grace does not mean u are to be looking for temptation and sin everywhere. We are under law of Spirit which is full of grace and truth. Without holiness no one can make heaven. Just keep praying for more grace, mercy, read d word of God often, be sensitive to ur spirit not d law. If u keep doing all this everyday before u know it righteousness will cover u itself.

ZORO47:
well I won't answer any of those. I just believe the bible now, not popular opinion. And I don't judge anyone cos all we who now believe the gospel of grace, once had the same ideas and views about grace and law just like you do. We all heard the gospel msg then too and shoved it off as well as false doctrine. But when we decided to take the word for what it says, rather than what we were taught in sunday school, we could finally see.
Just one last observation. If u check the post of every one standing for the law on this thread, you would notice one thing, sin is always on their mind. The law keeps them always concious of sin and self. Look at how many times you made mention of 'sin' and 'self' in your questions, making me to size myself based on my performance. You mentioned christ only once. That's exactly what the law does. Keeps you self concious and puts Christ at the background. Grace Keeps you Christ concious and you don't even see yourself anymore because under grace, you and all your sinful nature, are actually dead Rom 6:2-3.

I would conclude with this story of an ex-atheist I stumbled on online. He testified that he saw Jesus as different from other historical figures of old. This was because where Ghandi pointed people to admirable words of wisdom, Mohammad, Buddha and several other religious leaders of old he mentioned pointed people to all the laws/things they should do to please God and gain acceptance with him, but this man Jesus was different because he wasn't pointing people to laws, rules or words of wisdom, he was pointing people to himself as the ONLY way to God. That audacity made him unique from other men that have existed in history. That got me thinking. While we christians read the bible and see laws and more laws, this atheist read the bible and saw Christ. I pray the Holy Spirit give us all understanding to really see and know.

I would just end this here, God knows I have tried my best. Listen to messages from Pastor W. F Kumuyi, understand the bible from the bible scholar.
Funny, you might want to say he doesnt know the bible or something... But try and listen to the messages.
On campus here, more than 90% believe in this doctrine of grace and grace and progressive sanctification and all. You guys are just lovers of sin.
I pray you turn back before you completely get your conscience seared by continuing in sin and abusing grace