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Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? - Politics (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by Kobojunkie: 4:40pm On Dec 21, 2009
proudly9ja:

@Aloy,

Lets not take this out of context and return to the topic at hand. Someone said analysed that is it an excuse for someone to eat dog poo just because he or she is starving and I gave an example that it is not just an excuse, it is really happening.[/b]If anyone can do that, I will keep quiet.

Dude!!!! get your facts right. I compared a post by @Tpia to the equally extreme case with starving individuals. Stop trying to TWIST this to mean what it does not. Read it again to get your information right . . . .


tpia.:

so what have [b]you
done, that's better than this?

[size=14pt]and like I said- if you're at death's door and that's the only type of clinic available, tell them you'd rather die than go there.[/size]


Kobojunkie:

[size=14pt]Sort of like "if you are starving and the only food available is dog food with dog poo mixed in, would you eat it or not" argument?[/size] Ugh!!
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by Nobody: 4:41pm On Dec 21, 2009
This is the clinic being constructed by the current Surgeon General of the United States.

Do any of you loudmouths have any comments about the structure?






Dr. Regina Benjamin walks away from the construction site for her new clinic in Bayou La Batre, Ala. in this Sept.18, 2008, photograph.
Dr. Regina Benjamin, born in 1956 in Mobile, Ala., is a physician known for her work in rural health care whose Bayou La Batre clinic has persevered through hurricanes and fire. She is the founder of the Bayou La Batre Health Clinic, which treats poor and low-income patients, many of whom have no health insurance.

About 4,500 patients rely on Benjamin's clinic, which has a sliding scale of fees for people with low or no income.
Over the years, Benjamin has worked in hospital emergency rooms and nursing homes, moonlighting to keep the Bayou La Batre clinic in operation.


"She's chosen to care for the poorest and most needy of our population. That's not where the dollars are," said Diane Rowland, executive director of a Kaiser Family Foundation panel working on health care for the poor, in 2002.
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by snowdrops(m): 4:42pm On Dec 21, 2009
If the issue is: "is the structure above capable of housing a functioning and safe surgical theatre?"

The clear answer is a capital YES. It can fit in a bed, an aneasthetic machine, basic surgical equipments, a surgeon, his assistant and an anaesthetist. Field hospitals on battle front may all be that and perform adequate operations, thank you very much.
Anyway poster is cynical referring to the unit as "modern".

If on the other hand it is "is the structure fit for purpose to offer medical treatment to Nigerians[made from apparently corrugated roofing sheets on what appears to be foul smelling stale water]?"

Then it is surely NO.
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by proudly9ja(m): 4:42pm On Dec 21, 2009
Kobojunkie:

Roflmao!!! Did you bother to examine the picture you have there? No need speculating about the insides of that building when what you have right there is all you need to go by.

Kobojunkie:

That looks photoshopped @Poster

The original poster asked a question. Someone gave conditions and you zeroed his conditions with your own myopic view (a picture! one you were'nt even sure was photoshopped or not!). Sometimes I wonder why I even bother.

Anyways, back at post, like someone said, I think if it was a matter of life and death, it will be hard to choose where one wants his belly to be opened.
kudos to the NGO guys though.
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by AloyEmeka9: 4:43pm On Dec 21, 2009
What is the comparison between that clinic under construction and this one below especially the health hazards associated with the poo water underneath?


[img]http://3.bp..com/_VfdGlmUwjFQ/Sx5OiN0ueRI/AAAAAAAAFYc/lO2MO0PpubU/s1600/hope.png[/img]
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by proudly9ja(m): 4:43pm On Dec 21, 2009
snowdrops:

If the issue is: "is the structure above capable of housing a functioning and safe surgical theatre?"

The clear answer is a capital YES. It can fit in a bed, an aneasthetic machine, basic surgical equipments, a surgeon, his assistant and an anaesthetist. Field hospitals on battle front may all be that and perform adequate operations, thank you very much.
Anyway poster is cynical referring to the unit as "modern".

If on the other hand it is "is the structure fit for purpose to offer medical treatment to Nigerians[made from apparently corrugated roofing sheets on what appears to be foul smelling stale water]?"

Then it is surely NO.
Thank you very much. Much appreciated.
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by Kobojunkie: 4:47pm On Dec 21, 2009
proudly9ja:

The original poster asked a question. Someone gave conditions and you zeroed his conditions with your own myopic view (a picture! one you were'nt even sure was photoshopped or not!). Sometimes I wonder why I even bother.

Anyways, back at post, like someone said, I think if it was a matter of life and death, it will be hard to choose where one wants his belly to be opened.
kudos to the NGO guys though.

I pointed out that the picture is likely photoshopped and also directed that we stick to the disecting the picture and not some IMAGINED FANTASIES WE MAY HAVE OF IT and you think you make sense in the above? Dude, just ignore my posts if yoiu are unwilling to admit you are wrong in this.  Seriously, I tire too of ego fights that take me no where.
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by Kobojunkie: 4:49pm On Dec 21, 2009
snowdrops:

If the issue is: [size=14pt]"is the structure above capable of housing a functioning and safe surgical theatre?"[/size]
The clear answer is a capital YES. It can fit in a bed, an aneasthetic machine, basic surgical equipments, a surgeon, his assistant and an anaesthetist. Field hospitals on battle front may all be that and perform adequate operations, thank you very much.
Anyway poster is cynical referring to the unit as "modern".

If on the other hand it is [size=14pt]"is the structure fit for purpose to offer medical treatment to Nigerians[made from apparently corrugated roofing sheets on what appears to be foul smelling stale water]?"[/size]
Then it is surely NO.

Now, which question was really asked in this case? Imagine you are in an exam here. Which of the two questions is likely closest to what was asked?



  [size=14pt]Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? [/size]

Note the THIS reference in the question, Not just the structure but [size=14pt]THIS [/size] particular structure ( environs and all).
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by proudly9ja(m): 4:51pm On Dec 21, 2009
Kobojunkie:

Dude!!!! get your facts right. I compared a post by @Tpia to the equally extreme case with starving individuals. Stop trying to TWIST this to mean what it does not. Read it again to get your information right . . . .




agrgh!!! abeg, can we go back to the post. Im not much of a talker and my mind is spinning already. If you read my post to Aloy, I told him in the very first line that we should return to the post at hand and not take things out of context. Meaning that, my post with the whole somalia thingy was being taken out of context. I didn't twist anything.

And just so you know, this is an EXTREME case for Makoko people and thats why I think tpia brought the life and death issue. Most of them would probably not even have access to proper hospitals talkless of surgeries and here is someone offering them this for free or at least affordable fees??

Im not sure I want to go round in circles abeg. Forget that I responded to your post and lets move forward.
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by AloyEmeka9: 5:08pm On Dec 21, 2009
proudly9ja:

agrgh!!! abeg, can we go back to the post. Im not much of a talker and my mind is spinning already. If you read my post to Aloy, I told him in the very first line that we should return to the post at hand and not take things out of context. Meaning that, my post with the whole somalia thingy was being taken out of context. I didn't twist anything.

And just so you know, this is an EXTREME case for Makoko people and thats why I think tpia brought the life and death issue. Most of them would probably not even have access to proper hospitals talkless of surgeries and here is someone offering them this for free or at least affordable fees??


Im not sure I want to go round in circles abeg. Forget that I responded to your post and lets move forward.

You are celebrating mediocrity. Are we supposed to have such amenities in Nigeria with our oil production record?. Why must we manage as Nigerians?
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by proudly9ja(m): 5:20pm On Dec 21, 2009
Aloy.Emeka:

You are celebrating mediocrity. Are we supposed to have such amenities in Nigeria with our oil production record?. Why must we manage as Nigerians?

Yes! I am celebrating the fact that a few Nigerians have dipped into their pockets to save lives rather than sit down and condemn eofforts of others.
I am celebrating that 22 lives have been saved so far based on this effort!

Ofcourse it hurts me like most Nigerians that my leaders prefer to travel abroad for medical treatment. But these guys are NOT government. They are only doing their bit!

I know someone who once volunteered in a secondary school where they had only 2 maths teachers for SSS1-SSS3. He spent only three months with them but it was a vital period as the SSS 3 students were then preparing for the WAEC. He spent every single day with them from 8 till sometimes even 4pm.

After about a month, parents would come specially to thank him for the effort. They even started contributing money to pay him even though it was less than 5000naira. It showed the students appreciated it to the extent they could go home and tell their parents about the teacher.
This friend of mine could have stayed at home while waiting for his call up letter. He could have said ''oh my effort would yield nothing'' or thought as an individual, he wouldn't add much to the students. But he didn't, rather he went on and made a difference.

It is the same thing I am celebrating about this 'surgery'. If it was government who built it or if the individual built it as private practice, I may have screamed like most are doing. But from the report, they are doing this to help people especially people who cannot afford to go to proper hospitals.

Ild advice that a lot of us visit villages or even hospitals in cities like Lagos. See people dying of common ailments that can be treated but because they don't have 1000naira or 5000naira to pay for surgery. Now offer these people the opportunity for free surgery in the one shown above and see if they will care its built on cow dung!
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by AloyEmeka9: 6:49pm On Dec 21, 2009
proudly9ja:

Yes! I am celebrating the fact that a few Nigerians have dipped into their pockets to save lives rather than sit down and condemn eofforts of others.

I am celebrating that 22 lives have been saved so far based on this effort!



Which Nigerians built that surgical hut?
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by GEW: 7:02pm On Dec 21, 2009
Aloy.Emeka:

Which Nigerians built that surgical hut?
a very beautiful hut. at least yaradua and his people could have gone there

you still dey fight all over the place this girl
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by AloyEmeka9: 7:05pm On Dec 21, 2009
GEW:

a very beautiful hut. at least yaradua and his people could have gone there



It's people like proudly9ja who lay the foundation for our leaders allowing us to live in cesspools while they escape to Saudi mecca to get medical help.
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by snowdrops(m): 7:17pm On Dec 21, 2009
Kobojunkie:

Now, which question was really asked in this case? Imagine you are in an exam here. Which of the two questions is likely closest to what was asked?



  [size=14pt]Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? [/size]

Note the THIS reference in the question, Not just the structure but [size=14pt]THIS [/size] particular structure ( environs and all).
Lets cut to the chase.
"would you allow your belly opened up" in that context means to be operated upon. Fine.
If it is an elective operation while i am in my country Nigeria under normal circumstances, of course no. My decision here is based on the unhealthy building and its surroundings. Irrespective of the competence of the personnel.

However, if it is an emergency operation, and that is the only available, assessible and/or affordable place, and my life depends on it, then i obviously dont have a choice but to accept it.
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by Kobojunkie: 7:23pm On Dec 21, 2009
snowdrops:

Lets cut to the chase.
"would you allow your belly opened up" in that context means to be operated upon. Fine.
If it is an elective operation while i am in my country Nigeria under normal circumstances, of course no. My decision here is based on the unhealthy building and its surroundings. Irrespective of the competence of the personnel.

However, if it is an emergency operation, and that is the only available, assessible and/or affordable place, and my life depends on it, then i obviously dont have a choice but to accept it.

You and I both know that the probabilties of number 2 being the case is just next to impossible so why even add that? I mean Why did you feel we feel the need to consider that at all? Folks who currently live right now in Makoko ( before this structure if even out there) have other places they go for their healthcare needs. So why do we need to find the most outrageous of cases at all?


How about we add the following --

[size=13pt]If a nuclear bomb was dropped on Nigeria by Iran and all hospitals except this were incenerated, and if it is an emergency operation, and that is the only available, assessible and/or affordable place, and my life depends on it, then I obviously don't have a choice but to accept it?[/size]

[size=13pt]If the devil were to inhabit all the other hospitals in the world and this is the only hospital were he has yet to visit, and if it is an emergency operation, and that is the only available, assessible and/or affordable place, and my life depends on it, then I obviously don't have a choice but to accept it?[/size]

[size=13pt]If God said this is the only place I can get healing that he has to offer, and if it is an emergency operation, and that is the only available, assessible and/or affordable place, and my life depends on it, then I obviously don't have a choice but to accept it?[/size]



I find it irritating that instead of a simple saying NO and standing by that, we feel we have to dig into the "All things absurd and ludicrous" pile/dust bin to find the most absurd so we can all so we can add a YES response.
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by snowdrops(m): 7:33pm On Dec 21, 2009
Option 2 is far from remote. I can name thousands of scenarios whereby someone need to be operated on there and then to stay alive. If anything to stabilize the individual before being transferred to a better place.
Just pray you or your relatives dont find themselves in such a position; you would wish for even something less.
For example;
a woman living in a remote village with a ruptured ectopic pregnancy
a road accident victim with multiple fractures and a severed spleen/liver
a robbery victim with life threatening wounds to the chest.
During the time it had taken me to type this post at least one of these situations may have occured somewhere in Nigeria. It is far from uncommon.
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by mamagee3(f): 7:33pm On Dec 21, 2009
This is serious. . . shocked shocked
Do people really go there
? shocked shocked
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by snowdrops(m): 7:35pm On Dec 21, 2009
@ Kobojunkie

I can see you updated your post. You are not in the medical field obvously. So i forgive your uninformed and unfortunate comments.
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by Kobojunkie: 7:43pm On Dec 21, 2009
snowdrops:

@ Kobojunkie

I can see you updated your post. You are not in the medical field obvously. So i forgive your uninformed and unfortunate comments.


Roflmao!!! How do you know I am not in the medical field? Because someone who has ABSOLUTELY no clue where I even work made such a suggestion earlier? Please stick to answering the question please.

snowdrops:

For example;
a woman living in a remote village with a ruptured ectopic pregnancy
a road accident victim with multiple fractures and a severed spleen/liver
a robbery victim with life threatening wounds to the chest.
During the time it had taken me to type this post at least one of these situations may have occured somewhere in Nigeria. It is far from uncommon.

Are you saying NOTHING of this sort has happened in Makoko before the supposed erection of this structure? Are you implying that currently, that all the patients have died because this particular structure was not present where it is now( if this is an actual structure).
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by snowdrops(m): 7:46pm On Dec 21, 2009
For what its worth, I believe i have articulated my point anough. Read through my posts again if that would make things clearer.
I can continue this battle of wits with you, but obviously you are unarmed.
Lights out.
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by Nobody: 7:51pm On Dec 21, 2009
Considering the environs,i recommend that anybody attending this "thing" should take anti-malaria and thyhoid drugs.
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by Kobojunkie: 7:55pm On Dec 21, 2009
snowdrops:

For what its worth, I believe i have articulated my point anough. Read through my posts again if that would make things clearer.
I can continue this battle of wits with you, but obviously you are unarmed.
Lights out.

Sure, you have answered the question asked you with a YES AND a NO, but still not addressed my questions to you. Why did you feel the need to PULL out the absurd just so you could include a YES in your answer? If this were an exam, would you have answered the same way? I mean this is no rocket science. You know of the normal, you are given a simple picture and asked a simple question. but you felt the need to pull out the absurd just so you can stand on the line between yes and no. All I ask is why ? lol
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by Nnenna1(f): 9:32pm On Dec 21, 2009
Better half a loaf of bread than none.

I applaud their efforts, no matter how trivial and stupid Nairaland geniuses label them.
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by snowdrops(m): 10:06pm On Dec 21, 2009
Kobojunkie:

Sure, you have answered the question asked you with a YES AND a NO, but still not addressed my questions to you. Why did you feel the need to PULL out the absurd just so you could include a YES in your answer? If this were an exam, would you have answered the same way? I mean this is no rocket science. You know of the normal, you are given a simple picture and asked a simple question. but you felt the need to pull out the absurd just so you can stand on the line between yes and no. All I ask is why ? lol
I perfectly understand you concerns and agree with most things you have said. However there is no simple right or wrong answer. If you want that then the question needs to be rephrased, and be more specific.
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by Nobody: 10:23pm On Dec 21, 2009
Nigerians and bad belle!!!!!

no wonder una hometowns no dey develop!
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by proudly9ja(m): 11:17pm On Dec 21, 2009
Nnenna1:

Better half a loaf of bread than none.

I applaud their efforts, no matter how trivial and silly Nairaland geniuses label them.
Thank you.
Aloy.Emeka:

It's people like proudly9ja who lay the foundation for our leaders allowing us to live in cesspools while they escape to Saudi mecca to get medical help.

I still don't get your arguement to be honest. I can still discuss with you because you have not reduced it to throwing insults like a lot of people do on Nairaland so Il really like to understand your point of view especially as regards the post quoted. How do ''people like proudly lay the foundation for our leaders , "?

Is it now a crime for people to contribute their own quota? Is it because of what these people have done that Fashola or Yaradua will not build hospitals in Lagos or Katsina or anywhere else?
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by Kobojunkie: 12:04am On Dec 22, 2009
snowdrops:

I perfectly understand you concerns and agree with most things you have said. However there is no simple right or wrong answer. If you want that then the question needs to be rephrased, and be more specific.

I don't believe the question is the problem. NO! question is DIRECT. You are given a picture of a make-shift clinic (I still feel it is a doctored picture cause there is given no information on the actual location of such a structure if it even exists) and asked would you allow your belly opened in this modern surgical theatre. It is not complicated and so there is really no need for standing on the fence here. Either you will or you will not. Now, if additional information were made available, then we can say there is some room for bend available but in this case there is none.

I have actually NOTICED this behaviour( need to manufacture situations that do not exist in order to stand on the fence as long as possible) in so many discussions with my fellow Nigerians. It is so wrong to stand firm on one side of the debate, no matter which side? You go to other forums( non-nigerian) and post the same question and you are likely to find that people actually address the question as is, rather than cooking up extra FANTASIES to put themselves on the fence even when it is not necessary. I am just saying, why the need to manufacture extra, even the most absurd in some cases, just so we can sit long on the fence?
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by proudly9ja(m): 3:46am On Dec 22, 2009
These are the people of Makoko. You people honestly think that these people have better options than what this NGO has done for them? Especially since its free?

(pics courtesy https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-260778.416.html)

Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by proudly9ja(m): 3:53am On Dec 22, 2009
A video of the Hope Float Initiative. From the video, at least you will see that these people actually took their time in planning this program and Makoko isn't the only community that will benefit from it.

Kudos to the HFI crew, thank God for people like you who are taking time out of no time to do something for their people while the rest of us sit behind computer screens and condemn your effort.

http://www.youtube.com/user/HFIcast
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by Eziachi: 7:40am On Dec 22, 2009
The word "surgery" in medicine can mean just a consulting place you sees a medical person, not necessarily that they perfom open surgical operation there. I cannot see any modern doctor that will deliberately treat a person in an environment like that, unless in an emergency situation where you have not much of an option.

Opening someone up, while floating on trillions algea, bacterias and  other disease causing organism will be legalised suicide. We often get infection in a well control environment, let alone on filty box like that in the picture.

Probably, it was just a dispensary where they offers just prescription and patent medications.  But you know how addicted our people are for big names. A small snake always turns into a pyton
Re: Will You Allow Your Belly Opened In This Modern Surgical Theatre? by chrisical(m): 4:39pm On Dec 22, 2009
Ruminants can be operated upon there.

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