truthwins:


The issue of having father or not is not the point here. The truth remains that Jesus was not made from clay as the quran asserted. That is a minus for the quran.

Tell me from the quran where Eve was made from Adam.

Subhanallah!

Qur'an 4 vs 1

O mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam), and from him (Adam) He created his wife [Hawwa (Eve)], and from them both He created many men and women...

Adultery and formication is a vice which destroys the fabric of a society, and every sensible civilizatipn rejects it but those who are hell bent on destroying the moral fabric of the society not only condone it but also encpurage it and i hope you are not one of them. Its like asking why should stealing and robbery be criminalized.
Going to your question, Allah didn't prescribe purnshment for any sin because he derives pleasure from it, but rather to serve as deterrant to others.
Any body guilty of adultery, fornication, robbery etc, if he repents sincerely, Allah will forgive that person even if he has fornicated with 100's of women.
That punishment isadministered upon someone caught in the act by four people, and not only caught kissing or smooching but actually in the act.
They will be questioned seperately and mist corroborate same before there evidences will be accepte. If three people corroborate same, and only one differs, they will be punished for false allegations and the person deemed innocent.
In essence, the punishment is to prevent way word people from openly engaging or discussing their immorality thereby corrupting the society.
For four different people to catch some one involved in fornication, it mist be that he is either careless PR on a mission to corrupt the society.
And about a person that gives himself up for adultery, ways will be given to him to escape the punishment such ad was he sane when he did such.

Rashduct4luv:


He will be forgiven! But stoning is the prescribed form of punishment according to Islamic law!

Then, why was the woman killed by Muhammad not forgiven after she confessed and repented?

truthwins:


Then, why was the woman killed by Muhammad not forgiven after she confessed and repented?

She could have refused to come back to him but she came! she wanted the law to take its effect! And she was a true believer in Allah and His Apostle.

Rashduct4luv:



She could have refused to come back to him but she came! she wanted the law to take its effect! And she was a true believer in Allah and His Apostle.

Why would anyone volunteer to die a painful death if he/she has the opportunity to be forgiven and let go?

Couldn't Muhammad pronounce her forgiven and let her go since she had repented? Must Muhammad kill her if she was ignorant she could be forgiven?

Note that there were other women Muhammad killed after repentance from adultery.

Doesn't that show Allah or Muhammad was nterested in the death of repented adulterers/adulteresses ? And.this proves you wrong that muslims who commit adultery will be forgiven if they repent as we.have samples of those who repented and were still killed.

truthwins:


Why would anyone volunteer to die a painful death if he/she has the opportunity to be forgiven and let go?

Couldn't Muhammad pronounce her forgiven and let her go since she had repented? Must Muhammad kill her if she was ignorant she could be forgiven?

Note that there were other women Muhammad killed after repentance from adultery.

Doesn't that show Allah or Muhammad was nterested in the death of repented adulterers/adulteresses ? And.this proves you wrong that muslims who commit adultery will be forgiven if they repent as we.have samples of those who repented and were still killed.

It is proven that even if one dies without repenting from Adultery, Allah may still forgive him if He wills so far as he didnt die on Shirk. Only those who die on Shirk are doomed in hell.

In a land with rule & sanity, offenders are to face the consequences of their sins!

Rashduct4luv:



It is proven that even if one dies without repenting from Adultery, Allah may still forgive him if He wills so far as he didnt die on Shirk. Only those who die on Shirk are doomed in hell.

In a land with rule & sanity, offenders are to face the consequences of their sins!

That is exactly what I mean. There is no forgiveness of sin in islam. Offenders must bear the consequences of their sins.

This is the reason islammic judgement is based on Muslims' good and bad.deed. If their sins are forgiven, there will be no bad deed in their records before allah.

But with Jesus, every sin confessed and repented of is forgiven and no more record of such sin with God. Jesus is very merciful and he is not interested in the death of sinners but that they come to repentance and be saved. A merciful God would not still kill anyone who regrets of his/her sins and repent of them. That is the nature of the true God.

I'm not talking about secular laws of nations based on human reasoning but God's laws and relationship with man through Jesus. He demonstrated this when he freed a woman caught in adultery. There was law against adultery at that time but Jesus showed her mercy.

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truthwins:
[/b]

That is exactly what I mean. There is no forgiveness of sin in islam. Offenders must bear the consequences of their sins.

This is the reason islammic judgement is based on Muslims' good and bad.deed. If their sins are forgiven, there will be no bad deed in their records before allah.

But with Jesus, every sin confessed and repented of is forgiven and no more record of such sin with God. Jesus is very merciful and he is not interested in the death of sinners but that they come to repentance and be saved. A merciful God would not still kill anyone who regrets of his/her sins and repent of them. That is the nature of the true God.

I'm not talking about secular laws of nations based on human reasoning but God's laws and relationship with man through Jesus. He demonstrated this when he freed a woman caught in adultery. There was law against adultery at that time but Jesus showed her mercy.

The problem is that Islam has a set of laws to rule a country successfully! On the other hand, Christianity has no laws to run a country successfully except it picks from the Jewish laws of the old testament. Some Christians wishes to copy Muslims by having a Christian court like the Sharee'ah court. I wonder where the law will come from? or will they forgive anyone that sins? What is the punishment for adultery according to Jesus?

Rashduct4luv:


The problem is that Islam has a set of laws to rule a country successfully! On the other hand, Christianity has no laws to run a country successfully except it picks from the Jewish laws of the old testament. Some Christians wishes to copy Muslims by having a Christian court like the Sharee'ah court. I wonder where the law will come from? or will they forgive anyone that sins? What is the punishment for adultery according to Jesus?

Religion should be different from government because God's law is not the same as secular or goverment law. A country might not be made.up of only one religion. Does islam envisage that all citizens of a country must be muslims?

Rashduct4luv:

Christianity has no laws to run a country successfully

True but....

except it picks from the Jewish laws of the old testament.

That's it bcus there is not laws recorded in their NT. They are to abide by Old Laws according to Jesus himself Matthew 5:18-19, Luke 16:17 John7:19 Now the problem with them is that they said Jesus statement in these verses are meant for the Jews. To refute that is very simple. Since Jesus didnt bring or establish Christianity, they MUST follow Old Laws. So PUNISHMENT FOR ADULTERY IN CHRISTIANITY IS STONING TO DEATH Deuteronomy 22:22 Leviticus 20:10 " no mercy and no forgiveness unless they accept Islam where the punishment is softened

Some Christians wishes to copy Muslims by having a Christian court like the Sharee'ah court

Really?. Jealousy want kill them. Which state they have this now?. Same thing they do with pilgrimage.

I wonder where the law will come from?

They MUST apply Jewish Laws. I bet Nigeria will be better really quick if they do so

truthwins:


Religion should be different from government because God's law is not the same as secular or goverment law. A country might not made.up of only one religion. Does islam envisage that all citizens of a country must be muslims?

Yes, Allah created us and gave us the law! We believe all Prophets are Muslims calling to the worship of Only One God and forbidden ascribing partners to Him in any way! We believe to Allah the creator belongs the law for all His creations!
One is always bound by ones country! In a Muslim country one can practice Islam without islamophobic people unlike in mixed countries.
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The religion of Islam is for everybody!

Rashduct4luv:



Yes, Allah created us and gave us the law! We believe all Prophets are Muslims calling to the worship of Only One God and forbidden ascribing partners to Him in any way! We believe to Allah the creator belongs the law for all His creations!
One is always bound by ones country! In a Muslim country one can practice Islam without islamophobic people unlike in mixed countries.
.
The religion of Islam is for everybody!

All prophets muslims? This is not true.

Alhough Quran says Moses and other prophets were muslims but that is very untrue. Moses led the Israelites (Jews) away from Egypt, are you saying Moses and the Jews were Muslims? Was Judaism under Moses islam? The Quran talks about the Jews and Christians as people of the Book as different from muslims. Check Quran 9:29.

From Moses to Jesus, no prophets talked about Kaaba nor visit it to perform islamic rituals, how can you claim all prophets were Muslims? Those who were coming to Kaaba in the time of prophets in the Bible were pagans and.there are records to prove.this. Don't be deceived, islam didn't exist before the advent of Muhammad..

It may surprise you to learn that neither Abraham nor Ishmael stepped their feet in Mecca. The Bible tells us where they lived and died.

truthwins:


All prophets muslims? This is not true.

Alhough Quran says Moses and other prophets were muslims but that is very untrue. Moses led the Israelites (Jews) away from Egypt, are you saying Moses and the Jews were Muslims? Was Judaism under Moses islam? The Quran talks about the Jews and Christians as people of the Book as different from muslims. Check Quran 9:29.

From Moses to Jesus, no prophets talked about Kaaba nor visit it to perform islamic rituals, how can you claim all prophets were Muslims? Those who were coming to Kaaba in the time of prophets in the Bible were pagans and.there are records to prove.this. Don't be deceived, islam didn't exist before the advent of Muhammad..

It may surprise you to learn that neither Abraham nor Ishmael stepped their feet in Mecca. The Bible tells us where they lived and died.

So funny in fact i really laughed at this comment and this is expected from someone who doesn't understand the definition of a Muslim!
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A Muslim is one who submits totally to the will of Allah. It goes beyond being a Jew, Israelite or Arab. And Abraham, Isaac, Ishaq, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon, Jonah, John, Joseph, Jesus, Aaron, etc were all Muslims.
.
Each of these has a given way of worshipping Allah. It was only in our Qu'ran to perform Hajj to Mecca if one can afford it.
.
To further explain to you, those people who believed in Moses during his time and followed him are Muslims.
.
Same applies to others​ including Jesus and Muhammad. May the Peace and blessings of Allah be on them all.

Rashduct4luv:


So funny in fact i really laughed at this comment and this is expected from someone who doesn't understand the definition of a Muslim!
.
A Muslim is one who submits totally to the will of Allah. It goes beyond being a Jew, Israelite or Arab. And Abraham, Isaac, Ishaq, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon, Jonah, John, Joseph, Jesus, Aaron, etc were all Muslims.
.
Each of these has a given way of worshipping Allah. It was only in our Qu'ran to perform Hajj to Mecca if one can afford it.
.
To further explain to you, those people who believed in Moses during his time and followed him are Muslims.
.
Same applies to others​ including Jesus and Muhammad. May the Peace and blessings of Allah be on them all.

The Jews and the Bible prophets were not muslims if Allah's word is anything to go by:

[Quran 9:29 Pickthal] Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

[Quran 9:29] Yusufali] Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

The above says "fight those who do not believe in allah, and follow not the religion of "truth" (islam). Who are those? The people of the Book, i. e the Jews, and their prophets and the Christians. How do you call those who do not believe in Allah and islam muslims?

If the people of the Book didn't believe in Allah and islam, what did they believe in? It is Judaism and Christianity respectively. That shows there was no islam before Muhammad.

Again, the fact that the people of the Book didn't believe in Allah shows Muhammad's Allah is not their God but Yahweh.

truthwins:


The Jews and the Bible prophets were not muslims if Allah's word is anything to go by:

[Quran 9:29 Pickthal] Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

[Quran 9:29] Yusufali] Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

The above says "fight those who do not believe in allah, and follow not the religion of "truth" (islam). Who are those? The people of the Book, i. e the Jews, and their prophets and the Christians. How do you call those who do not believe in Allah and islam muslims?

If the people of the Book didn't believe in Allah and islam, what did they believe in? It is Judaism and Christianity respectively. That shows there was no islam before Muhammad.

Again, the fact that the people of the Book didn't believe in Allah shows Muhammad's Allah is not their God but Yahweh.

Calm down! We are having an intellectual discussion!

Our belief in Islam is that Allah gave us only one religion from the beginning of creation! The religion is Islam. There is nothing like Moses mentioning Judaism or Jesus saying he brought Christianity. The evidence for this are available in our Books.

To explain your last post in brief.

When Moses came for example, all his people were to follow his book from Allah. Those that truly submitted to Moses are Muslims.

When David came,the People would follow leave other revelation (if any) and follow his. Those that truly submitted to David are Muslims.

Same applies to all messengers even Jesus and Muhammad. Peace be on them all

Now, when Jesus came, some people did not leave the older scriptures and follow his message Injeel! Those that truly submitted to Jesus are Muslims.

When Muhammad came, some people did not leave the Injeel of Jesus and Taurah of Moses, etc to follow the Qur'an. Those that truly submitted to Muhammad are Muslims.

And finally, in a Muslim Country, the Christians and Jews are to pay a form of tax called Jizya.

One Evidence is this from our Book

Allaah says of Nooh(Noah) (interpretation of the meaning):

“And recite to them the news of Nooh (Noah). When he said to his people: ‘O my people, if my stay (with you), and my reminding (you) of the Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allaah is hard on you, then I put my trust in Allaah. So devise your plot, you and your partners, and let not your plot be in doubt for you. Then pass your sentence on me and give me no respite.

‘But if you turn away (from accepting my doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allaah), then no reward have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allaah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims (i.e. those who submit to Allaah’s Will)’”
[Yoonus 10:71-72]

Rashduct4luv:


Calm down! We are having an intellectual discussion!

Our belief in Islam is that Allah gave us only one religion from the beginning of creation! The religion is Islam. There is nothing like Moses mentioning Judaism or Jesus saying he brought Christianity. The evidence for this are available in our Books.

To explain your last post in brief.

When Moses came for example, all his people were to follow his book from Allah. Those that truly submitted to Moses are Muslims.

When David came,the People would follow leave other revelation (if any) and follow his. Those that truly submitted to David are Muslims.

Same applies to all messengers even Jesus and Muhammad. Peace be on them all

Now, when Jesus came, some people did not leave the older scriptures and follow his message Injeel! Those that truly submitted to Jesus are Muslims.

When Muhammad came, some people did not leave the Injeel of Jesus and Taurah of Moses, etc to follow the Qur'an. Those that truly submitted to Muhammad are Muslims.

And finally, in a Muslim Country, the Christians and Jews are to pay a form of tax called Jizya.

One Evidence is this from our Book

Allaah says of Nooh(Noah) (interpretation of the meaning):

“And recite to them the news of Nooh (Noah). When he said to his people: ‘O my people, if my stay (with you), and my reminding (you) of the Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allaah is hard on you, then I put my trust in Allaah. So devise your plot, you and your partners, and let not your plot be in doubt for you. Then pass your sentence on me and give me no respite.

‘But if you turn away (from accepting my doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allaah), then no reward have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allaah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims (i.e. those who submit to Allaah’s Will)’”
[Yoonus 10:71-72]

You couldn't answer my questions:

Qur'an 9:29 says the Jews and the Christians didn't accept islam, meaning islam was not their religion and it was a new invention by Muhammad. If the Jews and their prophets have been practicing islam,. Quran would not say they didn't believe in it.

That the Quran says the people of
the Book didn't believe in Allah means Allah was not their God. Wouldn't they believe in their God if it was Allah? The God of the people of the Book is Yahweh and that was why they didn't believe in Muhammad's Allah.

It is absurd to call the people of the Book who Qur'an 9:29 says didn't accept islam nor believe in Allah muslims.

The truth is Allah is not the God of the Bible. Anything the Quran says about what happened before Muhammad that is not in consonance with the Scripture of the people of the Book is falsehood.

truthwins:


You couldn't answer my questions:

Qur'an 9:29 says the Jews and the Christians didn't accept islam, meaning islam was not their religion and it was a new invention by Muhammad. If the Jews and their prophets have been practicing islam,. Quran would not say they didn't believe in it.

That the Quran says the people of
the Book didn't believe in Allah means Allah was not their God. Wouldn't they believe in their God if it was Allah? The God of the people of the Book is Yahweh and that was why they didn't believe in Muhammad's Allah.

It is absurd to call the people of the Book who Qur'an 9:29 says didn't accept islam nor believe in Allah muslims.

The truth is Allah is not the God of the Bible. Anything the Quran says about what happened before Muhammad that is not in consonance with the Scripture of the people of the Book is falsehood.

You still dont get me.

The People of the Book are Jews and Christians. The children of Israel were suppose to leave Judaism for Christianity when Jesus came but some refused and were still Jews. When Muhammad came the Jews and the Christians were supposed to accept his message but some refused again.

These are the People of the Book mentioned. They heard of Muhammad's Message but they reject it. They are disbelievers!

Rashduct4luv:



You still dont get me.

The People of the Book are Jews and Christians. The children of Israel were suppose to leave Judaism for Christianity when Jesus came but some refused and were still Jews. When Muhammad came the Jews and the Christians were supposed to accept his message but some refused again.

These are the People of the Book mentioned. They heard of Muhammad's Message but they reject it. They are disbelievers!

The order is not Judaism to Christianity and then to islam. No, no no.

There was fault in the practices of Judaism, then Jesus had to come and make some corrections, which some Jews didn't accept. Some Jews didn't recognize Jesus true identity.

The people of the Book, especially the Christians have good reason not to accept Muhammad's messages because they had been warned about strange messages and false prophets.

Mathew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Jesus told us in that verse that it is the Gospel that God wanted preached till the end of the world. The people of the Book, especially the Christians were not expecting any other prophets to come with messages that is not the Gospel. IT SAYS THE GOSPEL SHOULD BE PREACHED TILL THE WORLD WILL END.

Since Jesus said only the Gospel should be preached TILL THE END OF THE WORLD, it.shows Islam is NOT FROM THE FATHER WHO SENT JESUS.

Who is Allah the god of islam?

truthwins:


The order is not Judaism to Christianity and then to islam. No, no no.

There was fault in the practices of Judaism, then Jesus had to come and make some corrections, which some Jews didn't accept. Some Jews didn't recognize Jesus true identity.

The people of the Book, especially the Christians have good reason not to accept Muhammad's messages because they had been warned about strange messages and false prophets.

Mathew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Jesus told us in that verse that it is the Gospel that God wanted preached till the end of the world. The people of the Book, especially the Christians were not expecting any other prophets to come with messages that is not the Gospel. IT SAYS THE GOSPEL SHOULD BE PREACHED TILL THE WORLD WILL END.

Since Jesus said only the Gospel should be preached TILL THE END OF THE WORLD, it.shows Islam is NOT FROM THE FATHER WHO SENT JESUS.

Who is Allah the god of islam?

Allah is the same God that created Adam and created all other human creatures from Adam.
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Saying Judaism has fault means the author of the Jewish scripture is an author of confusion!
how can a holy book have fault?

Moreover, Jesus said in Matthew 5:17

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Matthew 15:22-24 (KJV)

And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Now comment on the verses above!

Rashduct4luv:




Allah is the same God that created Adam and created all other human creatures from Adam.
.
Saying Judaism has fault means the author of the Jewish scripture is an author of confusion!
how can a holy book have fault?

Moreover, Jesus said in Matthew 5:17

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Matthew 15:22-24 (KJV)

And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Now comment on the verses above!

You didn't get my point. I didn't say Judaism had fault, I said there was fault in the way it was practiced and that was why Jesus.came to correct it.

Jesus didn't abolish the law but came to fulfil it. And that is why Christians still believe in the law. The difference between the OT law and the NT is that the former was on paper and the latter is in the heart of Christ's believers.

Jesus ministry was first to the Jews and later to the gentiles. This is the reason he commissioned his disciples to preach the Gospel to all nations.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy GhostMathew 28:19)

truthwins:


You didn't get my point. I didn't say Judaism had fault, I said there was fault in the way it was practiced and that was why Jesus.came to correct it.

Jesus didn't abolish the law but came to fulfil it. And that is why Christians still believe in the law. The difference between the OT law and the NT is that the former was on paper and the latter is in the heart of Christ's believers.

Jesus ministry was first to the Jews and later to the gentiles. This is the reason he commissioned his disciples to preach the Gospel to all nations.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy GhostMathew 28:19)

So why didn't Jesus Christ heal that women at first?

Rashduct4luv:


So why didn't Jesus Christ heal that women at first?

I told you it was not yet time for the gentiles. Jesus only had mercy upon her because of her humility.

truthwins:


I told you it was not yet time for the gentiles. Jesus only had mercy upon her because of her humility.

and the meaning of the lost sheep of Israel?

Rashduct4luv:



and the meaning of the lost sheep of Israel?

The Israelites who have lost due to wrong practice of Judaism.

truthwins:


The Israelites who have lost due to wrong practice of Judaism.

Who are they?

Rashduct4luv:



Who are they?

Jesus called them "the lost sheep of Israe"l, he didn't mention who they were.