bidemi12:

Bro's cool down na. don't blow up a plane because of this issue oooo. (Just joking), but you still have to wonder why a huge % of suicide attacks are perpetuated by muslim faithfuls. If you were not a muslim wont logic make you question the teachings of islam? why is it that majority of the followers of the faith are fanatics and very intolerant? sometimes i believe that since the religion somewhat discourages education, that alone is a catalyst for mayhem. e.g women/girls are shot in afghanistan for going to school. And of course, not to go too far, our muslim brothers in the north. it is almost as if education to majority of muslims is like water to a dirty man; a taboo

sorry but if majority of muslims were fanatics and very intolerant, would this world be bearable at all?
majority arent 'fanatics and very intolerant', that is just my point.
i get your point n all but a little bit of research wont hurt you know.
islam doesn not discourage education at all.
in fact, the Prophet said it is obligatory for every muslim to seek knowledge even if it was in China (at that time China was deemed a very very far place).

what causes all these problems are stupid and silly misinterpretations and people not knowing how Islam emphasizes so much on peace and unity.
the solution to this problem is, ironically, education.
that's were the role of the educated muslims come in. that is why I say the best solution to this is from the inside. the best way to solve all these is gradually educating these people, peacefully. i doubt that the Sultan or the Emir shouting out and trying to prove the so-called fanatics wrong publicly will help matters

and if I may add, if you look into the Boko Haram case (yes, they were wrong in many ways and i'm not supporting them),
you'll see that they were not against education in general. they were against most of the kind of things western educations teaches and how it may alter peoples(or muslims) perception of God or life or whatever. if you watch the interview with the leader guy. he explains that when they ask him why he has a computer and other 'western' stuff.
so please, let's not judge the religion by things like this and say it teaches violence (which i'll like to know how)

@ibro911 You still have not addressed the issue of why majority are linked to terrorism and suicidal attacks and why majority do not chose education as an "obligatory path".

i think you should read through my post again.

ibro911:

what causes all these problems are stupid and silly misinterpretations and people not knowing how Islam emphasizes so much on peace and unity.
the solution to this problem is, ironically, education.
that's were the role of the educated muslims come in.

and i really dont see any sense in you saying ''majority'' of muslims are linked to terrrorism and suicidal acts.lets be straight here. does that make any sense to you?
''majority of muslims are linked to terrrorism and suicidal acts''

Also, will [b]Ibro991 [/b]explain "they were against most of the kind of things western educations teaches and how it may alter peoples(or muslims) perception of God or life or whatever."

What kind of things western education teaches? How does it alter the view of people? Ironically enough, you are using western technology to have these debate. Surely, if Bokoharam have their ways, things like this wont be allowed? Your point remind me of the battle between the early churches and alchemist/scientist of the early times.

The churches had the same view and was hell bent on silencing the scientists for questioning and reasoning outside the norm. . . .

Anyway, Ibro explain.

ibro911:

i think you should read through my post again.

and i really dont see any sense in you saying ''majority'' of muslims are linked to terrrorism and suicidal acts.lets be straight here. does that make any sense to you?
''majority of muslims are linked to terrrorism and suicidal acts''

Ok, sorry. Let me rephrase; majority, if not all of suicidal and terrorist attacks are by muslim faithfuls. Is that better?

ElRazur:

Also, will [b]Ibro991 [/b]explain "they were against most of the kind of things western educations teaches and how it may alter peoples(or muslims) perception of God or life or whatever."

What kind of things western education teaches? How does it alter the view of people? Ironically enough, you are using western technology to have these debate. Surely, if Bokoharam have their ways, things like this wont be allowed? Your point remind me of the battle between the early churches and alchemist/scientist of the early times.

The churches had the same view and was hell bent on silencing the scientists for questioning and reasoning outside the norm. . . .

Anyway, Ibro explain.

come on mehn, you are missing the point. look at science now.
big bang, evolution etc.
are these pro-religion?
do they even make sense?
and if you check my post, you'll see that what i stated was 'part' of western education. not all western education.
and by the way, apart from that, these northerners were a bit shallow and narrow-minded and they believed (and were correct in a way) that the schools tried to stylishly draw muslims into christainity (many missionary schools are in the north both in the past and present)
the meaning of boko in hausa has something to do with deceit.

and btw, Islam (unlike christainity of the past) embraced science. many muslims in the past were scientists. one example, Algebra was invented by a muslim (hence the arabic-ness in the name lol). i can give more examples if you want. see how Islam also embraces education?

ibro911:

come on mehn, you are missing the point. look at science now.
big bang, evolution etc.
are these pro-religion?
do they even make sense?
and if you check my post, you'll see that what i stated was 'part' of western education. not all western education.
and by the way, apart from that, these northerners were a bit shallow and narrow-minded and they believed (and were correct in a way) that the schools tried to stylishly draw muslims into christainity (many missionary schools are in the north both in the past and present)
the meaning of boko in hausa has something to do with deceit.

and btw, Islam (unlike christainity of the past) embraced science. many muslims in the past were scientists. one example, Algebra was invented by a muslim (hence the arabic-ness in the name lol). i can give more examples if you want. see how Islam also embraces education?

I as well can give you instances/examples of how many islam faithfuls have neglected education for fanatism and terrorism. They discovered algebra? well that was then, we are faced with the realities of today. I still find it hard to reconcile islam and invention. It's a tough pill to swallow. Islam and terrorism? now we're talking. That's a pill i can swallow.

bidemi12:

Ok, sorry. Let me rephrase; majority, if not all of suicidal and terrorist attacks are by muslim faithfuls. Is that better?  

ummm, maybe because these people are uneducated fanatics and they think violence is the best way to tackle the moral downfall of this world(which i'll like to see you deny)?
and maybe because these people are actually fighting tribal wars and using religion to cover their wrong doings up?
and, maybe because if a muslim person does something bad, it is emphasized that he's a muslim but when a non-muslim does something wrong, he's just a person?

many many maybes huh?

bidemi12:


I as well can give you instances/examples of how many islam faithfuls have neglected education for fanatism and terrorism. They discovered algebra? well that was then, we are faced with the realities of today. I still find it hard to reconcile islam and invention. It's a tough pill to swallow. Islam and terrorism? now we're talking. That's a pill i can swallow.

ok, please can we hear these instances.
and please they have to be as you stated, ''how many islam faithfuls have neglected education for fanatism and terrorism''

ibro911:

come on mehn, you are missing the point. look at science now.
big bang, evolution etc.
are these pro-religion?
do they even make sense?
and if you check my post, you'll see that what i stated was 'part' of western education. not all western education.
and by the way, apart from that, these northerners were a bit shallow and narrow-minded and they believed (and were correct in a way) that the schools tried to stylishly draw muslims into christainity (many missionary schools are in the north both in the past and present)
the meaning of boko in hausa has something to do with deceit.

and btw, Islam (unlike christainity of the past) embraced science. many muslims in the past were scientists. one example, Algebra was invented by a muslim (hence the arabic-ness in the name lol). i can give more examples if you want. see how Islam also embraces education?

What a load of bullocks. What a truck load of idoti.

Here is a translation of what you are saying - You are against thinking outside the box! Look you can't embrace some side of science and then dismiss some part in the name of an ideology like religion. Big bang may not make sense to you, but it makes sense to people who are actually open minded and not just have a restricted thinking due to their religious beliefs.

It is ironic that Quantum theory, Quarks and things like black holes do not make sense to you, but it makes perfect sense that a man who sat in a cave and wrote a book - even though he is recorded as been an illiterate and sleeps with minor. . . . Creates a religion that is apparently the true religion. . . makes complete sense to you? Okay.

The West/Western have done more for the world than your religion have done for mankind. This is something you cannot deny.

Your post does nothing but demonstrate a mentality that blights your typical Muslim/Nigerian. What gives you conclusive proof that those from the north are narrow-minded Or shallow? That in itself is a generalisation and very wrong. I wonder if you will say that if you are from the northern part of Nigeria?

Christianity and Science were at loggerheads due to what the bible teaches and what science observe. For example, the world is flat in religion, while it is a spherical shape in science. As for your religion embracing science, omo don't make me laugh. Algebra was incorporated into Mathematics due to the calculations used by the builders of the time in Arab. This do not necessarily mean Islam embraces science.  After all, by your own admission, Islam disagree with "part of what science teaches" [even though it makes perfect sense]

As for education, it all depends on the type of education we are talking about. If you think not teaching science of all kind, including evolution and NOT letting people make their own mind up when they want, if you think ladies should not go to school and learn. . . .then it is not exactly education or is it?

@elrazur Cool down bros. no turn am to roforofo fight ooo.

ibro911:

ok, please can we hear these instances.
and please they have to be as you stated, ''how many islam faithfuls have neglected education for fanatism and terrorism''

No mind my language. i did not mean quantity. i neglected to add a coma b4 the "how".

bidemi12:

@elrazur Cool down bros. no turn am to roforofo fight ooo.

I plan to beat him down with his own bullshit that is all.

ElRazur:

Your post does nothing but demonstrate a mentality that blights your typical Muslim/Nigerian. What gives you conclusive proof that those from the north are narrow-minded Or shallow? That in itself is a generalisation and very wrong. I wonder if you will say that if you are from the northern part of Nigeria?

i think there is difference between all northerners are narrow and shallow minded and, these (referring to the boko haram) were a bit narrow and shallow-mided. goddamn it. na wa o. looks like some people have problems in reading through posts

ElRazur:

Here is a translation of what you are saying - You are against thinking outside the box! Look you can't embrace some side of science and then dismiss some part in the name of an ideology like religion. Big bang may not make sense to you, but it makes sense to people who are actually open minded and not just have a restricted thinking due to their religious beliefs.

It is ironic that Quantum theory, Quarks and things like black holes do not make sense to you, but it makes perfect sense that a man who sat in a cave and wrote a book - even though he is recorded as been an illiterate and sleeps with minor. . . . Creates a religion that is apparently the true religion. . . makes complete sense to you? Okay.

oh, not only athiests can be open minded y'know?, people that believe in God arent robots(cos that's what you imply), and yes we think too, we try to be 'open minded'. athiests so dance on the fact that people that believe in God are brainwashed that they forget the fact that they might actually be the brainwashed ones.
and how does quantum theory, quarks and black holes disprove God's existence. even the Big Bang doesnt.it's just the fact that the Big Bang happened to occur by itself that does
and please can we not go into arguing about the whole illiterate sleeping with minor thing?

what you call 'western' knowledge is what God has provided
and who says the world is flat in Islam?

ibro911:

i think there is difference between all northerners are narrow and shallow minded and, these (referring to the boko haram) were a bit narrow and shallow-mided. goddamn it. na wa o. looks like some people have problems in reading through posts

Omo, make your post a bit clearer next time. We aint all mind-readers. From the way you put it, it appears you are making a generalisation of the northerners. Period.

oh, not only athiests can be open minded y'know?, people that believe in God arent robots(cos that's what you imply), and yes we think too, we try to be 'open minded'. athiests so dance on the fact that people that believe in God are brainwashed that they forget the fact that they might actually be the brainwashed ones.
and how does quantum theory, quarks and black holes disprove God's existence. even the Big Bang doesnt.it's just the fact that the Big Bang happened to occur by itself that does
and please can we not go into arguing about the whole illiterate sleeping with minor thing?

You are missing the point. Please go back and read my post. It is late night and Family guy is on tv.

PS
Do not bring our personal debate over msn into this.

what you call 'western' knowledge is what God has provided
and who says the world is flat in Islam?

You cannot give credit to God over something that is at logger head with your own religion. . . That is an oxymoron I think.

No one says the world is flat in Islam. You are clearly not understanding my post. Please go back and read it again. I am saying Christian religion and the teachings of the early churches believe that the world was flat, these people weighed enormous influence, so you can imagine the shock it caused when Science came along with facts that it is not flat. . . .That is what am saying, and nope I never said it was Islam. . . Omo go and sleep jare lol.

Religious people are my favorite joke these days.
I have friends who are christians that claim that the bones of dinosaurs and early men are part of the "devil's " tricks . In my mind i say to myself, "dude ! ! Are you fcking delusional ? Can you hear yourself ? Why don't you just take 1 min to listen to what you're saying."
If you can't make modern christians reason with you, how is it possible to make a muslim do ? I don't know which is even worse.

edoyad:

Religious people are my favorite joke these days.
I have friends who are christians that claim that the bones of dinosaurs and early men are part of the "devil's " tricks . In my mind i say to myself, "dude ! ! Are you fcking delusional ? Can you hear yourself ? Why don't you just take 1 min to listen to what you're saying."
If you can't make modern christians reason with you, how is it possible to make a muslim do ? I don't know which is even worse.

Oh get over yourself already!!!!  You deliberately choose to hang out with that crowd and you think they are the problem? Sort of like someone coming on here to make fun of his friends who happen to be HICKS, and then thinks himself the intelligent one for making fun of them when they are not around. 

“Why don’t you LEAVE THEM to their delusions, while you KEEP yours?”

Kobo. . . .Long time. Omo are you on YIM or MSN?

I am on Yahoo,

@kobojunkie, The problem is that no man is an island, i'd take even you as a friend than be totally alone.
Infact, i confess. It's not just my friends, It's my whole darn family and i have to keep up the act. Sometimes It's almost like i'm homosexual and hiding it. Do you know what would happen to my mum's heart if she knew her child thought Mary had premarital sex ?

Kobojunkie:

I am on Yahoo,

Oya. . . In the name of Jesus, add me.

I just wish Nigeria can be splitted into 3 countries the Yoruba,Igbo and Hausa countries, so when the US wants to start bombing terrorists they know where to go straight!

Why cant we even be divided? There hasnt been any fair elections in the country so far and by that everyone will have his/her person ruling and managing resources for them.Unlike some of the messed up leaders we have now.

And as for the guy, he should be killed without any delay, atleast he wanted to commit suicide before anyways and may he find his 'virgins' after his disgraceful death!

ElRazur:

Oya. . . In the name of Jesus, add me.

What is your yahoo ID? Do click on my moniker, that should allow me add you to my yahoo!

Kobojunkie:

What is your yahoo ID?

On my profile. I'm sure you can "decode" it.

I just IMed you and no response from your end.

Its real sad!

This news is quite worrying and disturbing, . . . .how can it not be??

I swore up and down he really wasn’t Nigerian even after I heard the name. . . .

. . . . .i guess I was in denial.

Well, we must move on . . .abi now, . . .9ja people which ways from here oo??

ElRazur:

No one says the world is flat in Islam. You are clearly not understanding my post. Please go back and read it again. I am saying Christian religion and the teachings of the early churches believe that the world was flat, these people weighed enormous influence, so you can imagine the shock it caused when Science came along with facts that it is not flat. . . .That is what am saying, and nope I never said it was Islam. . . Omo go and sleep jare lol.

- Actually the highligthed part is not true . . .check here for why it is not true.

- I am going to give you a benefit of a doubt that you did not know that it is not true before accepting it and repeating it . . .however i hope you are going to correct and delete that false information from your mind after you check this post here.

- Actually the whole Flat Earth + Church + Christian thingy was a false information that started in europe . . . but it did not start even from the heretical catholic church (which is funny cus they certainly started a lot of rubbish  )

- If you say christianity believes the world was flat then that means you are implying that the bible says the world is flat . . . unfortunately, that is not true cus there is nothing like a flat earth in the bible . . . infact the bible made it clear the world was not flat and infact the bible made it clear the world was hanging in space (even before modern man knew what space was).

- Yes Catholics were hopelessly criminal in nature, nevertheless lets not allow historical falsehood to creep into our statements . . . even the catholics were not the ones that started the whole flat earth myth.

- I am sorry to say Elrazur but it seems you also have one more thing to detox from (and de-brainwash yourself from), you have also fallen for the Flat Earth lie . . .you have also been hoodwinked into believing a lie that started in europe: This lie which most people tend to believe is that flat earth has anything to do with the bible.

- Most people including you and I tend to make the mistake of thinking Europe is synomymous with Christianity, actually Europeans were pagans (Romans and Greeks were pagans) and christianity was also in other part of the world . . . before the catholic church started doing its best to wipe non-catholics out . . .

- a number of the modern day europeans are still pagans even though they are hiding under the banner of Catholism . . .

- Catholism was just a means for those Europeans to continue to worship their pagan gods under that banner of christianity . . .

- The Flat earth rumour has nothing to do with the bible . . .

- I have tried to make this point  here . . .  cus i noticed that a lot of people seem to be falling into the same trap of wrongly thinking that the Bible said the Earth was Flat . . . The truth is that the Bible never said anything about a flat earth . . .

. . .

- Catholics were hardcore terrorists in the past when they were dominating and to a lesser extent they are still terrorist up till now, just that they are now trying to control governments secretly instead of physically doing it as they were physically dominating in the past.

- Islam is basically a cult of violence that somehow succeeded to propagate itself one way or another, hence its understandable that most True Muslims would always support Islamic Terrorist cus at the end of the day . . . violence is the only way that can guarantee themselves of going to islamic paradise . . . they do not have any guarantee of going their through any other means . . .

For example, see the sad and rather revealing account of how a muslim was rejoicing when 9/11 occurred. . .hence why i always say that: most muslims are just potential terrorists in waiting all that is need is just something to trigger their violent nature.

namski:

Guy I guess you understand how these people reason. Before I left Naija, I worked in one of the banks in Nigeria and I tell you something that shocked me beyond believe. I was just newly employed and my Head of Operation, a Yoruba Muslim, ICAN qualified with an MBA. By every ramification a very well educated guy and was doing very well with the bank (I think he was a Dpty Mgr then). This guy i refer to jumped up in celebration as the news of 911 was announced before he realised he was in a banking environment, but by then the harm had been done. Obviously all of us took our distance from the guy and after about a month he asked to be re-deplyed to another branch. I can mention his name if need be. These guys are plain bastards and I still don't understand why I am the same country with them and we keep pretending to be brothers. ONE NATION my foot - break up you silly thing called Nigeria!!!

Also please note that:



- I went to OAU Ile-Ife . . .

- I have lived in the same room with practising True Muslims . . .

- Hence I know first hand how dangerous True Muslims can be . . . and why it would be naive to trust a True Muslim with your life . . . considering that they can snuff it out if they think it is Allah's wish to kill you.

- Seemingly educated muslims become irrational and violent when it comes to islam . . . hence education has nothing to do with the violent nature of muslims. The problem itself is Islam


The bottomline is that I suspect from past precedents that a significant number of muslims are sad that the Northern Nigerian muslim guy did not succeed in the terrorist attack, from past precedents, I suspect that most of them would secretly have wished that he succeeded.

@ topic

its amazing how one man can bring so much shame to millions of people around the globe. as if things werent bad enough for us who hold the green passport, now we will be watched even more closely when we proceed through airport. this man had so many opportunities to make the best out of his life, and now he probably wont be able to see the light of day again. such a waste.

No2atheismUK

From wiki

Some authors and artists less prominent in the Church's history directly opposed the round Earth.

Diodorus of Tarsus pa christain bishop[ (d. 394) may have argued for a flat Earth based on scriptures; however, Diodorus' opinion on the matter is known to us only by a criticism of it by Photius.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#Early_Christian_Church

And nope, I did not edit wiki to put that. Look the point is there were conflicts in ideollogy between christainity and modern science. Period.

Finally, where did I stated I believed it was started in Europe? Yeah I was half asleep, half watching tv last night and half typing here. . . .but am 100% sure that I did not state categorically that it started in Europe. . . .No dey make assumptions jare.

D fking guy just confessed dat he gut his explosive n training from yemen

ElRazur:

No2atheismUK

From wiki



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#Early_Christian_Church

And nope, I did not edit wiki to put that. Look the point is there were conflicts in ideollogy between christainity and modern science. Period.

Finally, where did I stated I believed it was started in Europe? Yeah I was half asleep, half watching tv last night and half typing here. . . .but am 100% sure that I did not state categorically that it started in Europe. . . .No dey make assumptions jare.

- You raised some valid points [/b]which i am going to take time to check out . . . however next time please do not quote wikipedia, cus in reality, i do not consider it has a credible source.

- This raises the questions as to whether:

  1. A number of people in the church around the time u mentioned were flat earthers or not
  2. Or the whole church around the time u mentioned had a flat earth theology

. . . I am going to have to do my own research before reaching a conclusion on this.

- I have found another source that said the same thing that you have said, hence why i am taking into consideration what you have mentioned, despite your point and statements i still say and i still repeat:


[b]THE BIBLE NEVER SAID THE EARTH WAS FLAT, IF IT DID YOU ARE FREE TO KINDLY SHOW ME.


Hence one might consider if this is a problem of the early church and its dogma or whether this is an issue of historical accuracy of reporting events . . . . . until i do my own research about the issue no comment.