"Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE - Religion - Nairaland
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| "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 1:46pm On Apr 12, 2017 |
Though they (God's elect) be justified by a righteousness wrought out by Christ, yet many think that they must be sanctified by a holiness wrought out by themselves. And though, out of humility they are willing to call it "infused grace", yet they think they must get the infusion of it by the same manner of working, as if it were wholly acquired by their endeavours... On this account they acknowledge the entrance into a godly life to be harsh and unpleasing, because it costs so much struggling with their own hearts and affections...etc. _Walter Marshall - 1887
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| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 1:54pm On Apr 12, 2017 |
SANCTIFICATION BY GRACE Suppose you could make a little “progress” in sanctification. Where would you be? Still far, far away from what God in His holiness could accept! There are no degrees in the standard of holiness, righteousness and perfection God requires. No, we grow in grace and that mostly in seeing our utter need for grace and to be saved by grace. We grow in seeing that all grace is in Christ which means that all righteousness is in Him. We need Him and His work for us. The only righteousness we will have is that righteousness which God in grace imputes to us which is His righteousness. He is the “Lord our righteousness” and we are “made the righteousness of God in Him.” And what would we do if we were to make a little “progress?” Just what men do when they think they have which is to be boastful, proud and despising of others! “Where is boasting then? It is excluded” say Paul in Romans 3. The truth is very plain and simple, “But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord ” (1 Corinthians 1:30-31) _ Gary Shepard
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| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 2:04pm On Apr 12, 2017 |
THE GOSPEL AFTER BELIEVING "The Gospel exposes and removes the ungodly principle of obedience motivated by legal fear of punishment and/or mercenary promises of earned reward(s). When God the Holy Spirit imparts life and faith to God's elect, He replaces legal motives with the godly motives of grace, love, and gratitude. Believers still have to fight this ungodly legalism that remains in the flesh, but unbelievers (even false Christians) do not fight it. They promote it and accuse believers of being antinomians. True believers repent of what legalists boast in." _Bill Parker. |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by analice107: 2:13pm On Apr 12, 2017 |
Following... 1 Like |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 3:34pm On Apr 12, 2017 |
ALL THE SINS OF GOD'S CHILD ARE NOT PAID FOR PROGRESSIVELY BUT ONCE AND FOR ALL. _ONE DEATH FOR ALL SINS, ONE DEATH FOR EVER. The justification of a sinner is instantaneous and complete. . . . It is an all-comprehending act of God. All the sins of a believer, past, present, and future, are pardoned when he is justified. The sum-total of his sin, all of which is before the Divine eye at the instant when God pronounces him a justified person, is blotted out or covered over by one act of God. Consequently, there is no repetition in the Divine mind of the act of justification; as there is no repetition of the atoning death of Christ, upon which it rests.” – William G. T. Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, Volume 2 (New York: Scribner’s, 1891) |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 3:55pm On Apr 12, 2017 |
IT IS BY FAITH THAT WE RECEIVE POWER TO LIVE IN OBEDIENCE. Believers have been baptized by the Holy Spirit into Christ and into the church, the body of all true believers. Having been thus united to Christ, believers share in His death, burial, and resurrection. Paul could therefore write, I have been crucified with Christ (lit., I have been and am now crucified with Christ). This brought an end to the Law. It also brought a change in regard to ones self: ...and I no longer live. The self-righteous, self-centered Saul died/u]. Further, death with Christ ended Pauls enthronement of self; he yielded the throne of his life to Another, to Christ. But it was not in his own strength that Paul was able to live the Christian life; the living Christ Himself took up His abode in Pauls heart: ... Christ lives in me. Yet Christ does not operate automatically in a believers life; [u]it is a matter of living the new life by faith in the Son of God. It is then faith and not works or legal obedience that releases divine power to live a Christian life. This faith, stated Paul, builds on the sacrifice of Christ who loved us and gave Himself for us. In essence Paul affirmed, If He loved me enough to give Himself for me, then He loves me enough to live out His life in me......Matthew Poole |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 4:12pm On Apr 12, 2017 |
He who comes (to God) as partly righteous is sent empty away. He who comes acknowledging (his own) unrighteousness, but at the same time trying to neutralize it or expiate it by feelings, and prayers, and tears, is equally rejected. But he who comes as an unrighteous man to a righteous yet gracious God, finds not only ready access, but plenteous (redemption and) blessing. The righteous God receives unrighteous men, if man presents himself in his own true character as a sinner, and does not mock God by pretending to be something less or better than this... _Horatius Bonar
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| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 4:30pm On Apr 12, 2017 |
WE NEED DIVINE ASSURANCE Uncertainty as to our relationship with God is one of the most enfeebling and dispiriting of things. It makes a man heartless. It takes the pith out of him. He cannot fight; he cannot run. He is easily dismayed and gives way. He can do nothing for God. But when we know that we are of God, we are vigorous, brave, invincible. There is no more quickening truth than this of assurance. No man can quench his thirst with sand, or with water from the Dead Sea; so no man can find rest from his own character, however good, or from his own acts, however religious. Upon a life I did not live, upon a death I did not die; anothers life, anothers death, I stake my whole eternity... _Horatius Bonar |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 4:48pm On Apr 12, 2017 |
LOOK AT THE GOSPEL AGAIN _OUR SUBSTITUTE WHAT DID OUR SUBSTITUTE DO? Long before the law was given by Moses, our whole race fell when Adam fell in the garden of Eden. Adam, a representative man, sinned against God and in him “all sinned.” (Rom. 5:12) This is why “death reigned from Adam to Moses.” But the penalty for sin against God is far more than physical death. Sin cannot be reversed, it must be punished. The penalty God requires for sin is death, a death that will satisfy divine justice. “Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) “For the wages of sin is death...” (Rom. 6:23) That penalty must be paid. It cannot be paid by a sinner but requires the death of a sinless sacrifice. Every picture in the Old Testament sacrifices shows this. Christ, if He be that “one sacrifice for sins forever,” must be such. If He be our Substitute, He must do the one thing God could not do from heaven, He must die. If you think of all that God did, can do and does from heaven, the one thing necessary to our salvation He could not do which is to die in our place. To do this He must become a man, take upon Himself a body and in that perfect body die as the Substitute for His sheep. “I lay down my life for the sheep.” Our death can only be because of our sin. His death as One who knew no sin, is for sin. We are not called upon to try and enter into the depths of His sufferings. How could we who have known nothing but sin enter into the sufferings of Him who never knew sin? No, we are simply called upon to look to His death. To rest in what He accomplished for us as our Substitute. If He died for me the death required for my sin, I don’t have to die. All He suffered, I do not know but I know He suffered all that was due me. My Substitute died in my place and I am a participant in His sufferings not because of what I feel about them but because God in grace views me “in Christ.” When He died for my sin, I died to sin. His death is the source of my life. This is the gospel emphasis: “Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.” (Romans 8:34) Christ “died for the ungodly.” God commeneth His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. We were “justified by His blood.” We were “reconciled to God by the death of His Son.” I don’t expect to ever know the fulness of my Substitute’s sufferings or be able to feel the depth of His agonies. But this is know because God has declared it, Christ my Substitute died in my place! “I need no other argument, I need no other plea, It is enough that Jesus died, And that He died for me.” ~ pastor Gary Shepard |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 6:30pm On Apr 12, 2017 |
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| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 11:54am On Apr 13, 2017 |
"What we call the Gospel is a doctrine which is not at all in us by nature, but which is revealed from Heaven and totally surpasses natural knowledge." _Theodore Beza |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 6:01pm On Apr 13, 2017 |
Wilhelmus a Brakel (1635-1711) : "From being a child of the devil to becoming a child of God, from being a child of wrath to becoming the object of God's favor, from being a child of condemnation to becoming an heir of all the promises and possessor of all blessings, and to be exalted from the greatest misery to the highest felicity--this is something which exceeds all comprehension and all adoration."(Excert from article of Dr. Joel R. Beeke) |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by MrPRevailer(m): 8:46pm On Apr 13, 2017 |
An2elect2: LAZYbone, youre preaching nonsense. And putting yourself in deepshit with God. There are more than 20 verses in the new testament that warns believers of the dangers of walking in fleshly lusts and deeds. 1 Corinthians 6:9; Galatians 5:19-21; Revelation 21:8; Titus 2:11; Ephesians 5:8 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by Rankine(m): 9:22pm On Apr 13, 2017 |
romans 6:1 what shall we say then? shall we continue in sin that grace may abound  6:2 GOD forbid, how shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein.... 1 Like |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 9:31pm On Apr 13, 2017 |
MrPRevailer:How did the post you quoted contradict those passages? And how have I preached walking in lustly flesh? |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 9:44pm On Apr 13, 2017 |
Rankine:Amen to the verses. However I'm sure you have (mis)quoted to oppose all I have said. SHALL WE CONTINUE IN SIN THAT GRACE MAY ABOUND? Hell no!!!!! SO HOW DO WE NOT CONTINUE IN SIN? ARE WE DEAD TO SIN? yes!!!!! DOES THIS MEAN WE ARE NO LONGER SLAVES OF SIN? yes!!! HOW SO? HOW DID WE DIE TO SIN? can you answer?  It's great conversing |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by Captain001(m): 11:29am On Apr 14, 2017 |
An2elect2: In essence my dear writer, what does grace do for us? 1 Like |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by MrPRevailer(m): 2:28pm On Apr 14, 2017 |
An2elect2: A liar will not go to heaven. A fornicator will not see heaven. Therefore you must be HOLY. Cut away anything that will make you not to go to heaven. Jesus said " If your EYE cause you to sin, cut it off". 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 3:08pm On Apr 14, 2017 |
Captain001:Thank you Contrary to what our critics say about us; that we preach licentiousness when we say men should rely solely on the grace of God through faith and add nothing to it, not even their best works, We teach that Christians ought to live godly lives and show good works (by the same grace) because it would be an insult to the Spirit of God to do otherwise. Christ didn't save us in sin but from sin. That we preach. Christ didn't come to help our righteousness but to be our righteousness. That we preach. Christ didn't save us unto lawlessness but unto good works. That we and our fathers in the faith preach. Haven established this. It's very important that we know how the grace of God works. And what it does for us. ~Firstly, The Grace of God in the person of Christ Jesus has appeared for our salvation. Salvation means to save from sin. Grace has appeared to save us from sin And what happens after that? Does Grace leave the rest of our walk to us? That would be catastrophic! Does Grace help us partly while we finish up by keeping the law? That would be witchcraft! For grace and works are exclusives, they can't work together. [Romans 11:6, Galatians 3:2,3] It's either grace or works Our works are tied to the Law. While Grace is anchored on faith. You are saved by grace through faith right? Ephesians 2:8 Now how do you live a godly life. Still same means! How? .by grace through faith You continue the same way you started. The same way you were saved. You started through faith you must continue through faith. You must live by faith. It was through faith that you received grace for salvation, it is through faith that you must receive grace to live a blameless life. Today, legalistic Christians are replacing faith with their obedience to the law. It doesn't work. It becomes a struggle because no grace is given through works. ~Secondly, Grace teaches us to say no to ungodliness and worldly passions. It teaches us to have selfcontrol and live uprightly. Anyone that continues in sin and lives anyhow and then say he is under grace, is a liar. We should separate ourselves from them for they are crucifying Christ again. To be under grace is to live a changed life. Tho we are not yet perfect and may never attain sinless perfection in our bodies of death, Christ requires good works from his church. And now here is the amazing thing, He does this himself. He purifies us by himself. He works in us to will and to do goods works for His good pleasure. [Philippians 2:13] At the end, we acknowledge it is God from beginning to end who has wrought all these things in us. [Philippians 1:6, psalms 40:2] Where is boasting then? Gone to the winds! All we have left is praise and thanksgiving for our God, for He does all things for His glory... Therefore if anyone must boast let him boast in the Lord. [1Corinthians 1:31] Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. 1 Like |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 3:31pm On Apr 14, 2017 |
MrPRevailer:Have you not Christ? If Christ is your righteousness why seek another righteousness under the law? Is God who became man to die for man's sin not able to preserve you and establish your ways unto right living? Is your god so small to do all these things. Mine is very big. I have a big God who I boast in |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 7:30pm On Apr 14, 2017 |
From the Puritan Prayers and Devotions... Christ was all anguish that I might be all joy, he was cast off, that I might be brought in, trodden down as an enemy that I might be welcomed as a friend, surrendered to hell’s worst that I might attain heaven’s best, stripped that I might be clothed, wounded that I might be healed, thirsty that I might drink, tormented that I might be comforted, made a shame that I might inherit glory, entered darkness that I might have eternal life. My savior wept so that all tears might be wiped away from my eyes, he groaned that I might have endless song, he endured all pain that I might have unfading health, he bore a thorned crown that I might have a diadem of glory, he bowed his head that I might uplift mine, he experienced reproach that I might receive welcome, he closed his eyes in death that I might gaze on unclouded brightness, he expired that I might live forever!
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| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 8:52pm On Apr 14, 2017 |
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| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by Captain001(m): 8:53pm On Apr 14, 2017 |
An2elect2: You have well spoken. I asked you this question because in your topic you put the word HOLINESS in quotes. I have a revelational knowledge that the "modern day" hyper-grace has become the devil's most potent tool that has kept many supposed children of the kingdom in self delusion and deceit. My dear grace found us while we were yet sinners and through belief in Christ, confession of sins and forsaking of old things, translated us into his marvelous light; wonderful! Grace through the death and resurrection of our LORD Jesus Christ is the best thing to happen to humanity; the devil knowing this has stepped in to counterfeit it to the detriment of undecerning, fun seeking "come and remain as you are" Christians. My sister(as your profile depicts), our problem in the practice of Grace is the inability to separate the flesh from the spirit. Man is a spirit, having a soul and dwelling in a body(temple). On redemption the spirit is cleansed and renewed by the blood of Christ; but the flesh still remains flesh that's why if you were crippled before salvation, you still remain so there after till a healing miracle happens. It is after salvation that the war between the spirit and the flesh begins. Apostle Paul the pioneer of Grace teaching realised this and knew he needed to do something by himself and not wait for grace 1 Corinthians 9:27 But I(spirit) keep under my body(flesh), and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. Words in bracket are mine. So my dear sister it our duty to discipline the flesh not the duty of Grace. Eph 4:22 that YE put off concerning the former conversation the Old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts. You see the instruction? YE(me and you) put off the old man Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[b] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. I am an advocate of righteousness and holiness as that's the only ticket to see God Hebrews 12:14 A lot to say dear sister but I must stop here for now. The Lord be with and strengthen you in your resolve to live for Christ. I Pray for you may your expectations never be cut off and your desires granted. The Lord cause his countenance to shine upon you and give you peace. Above all; may you never miss heaven 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by Rankine(m): 3:49pm On Apr 16, 2017 |
You have well spoken. I asked you this question because in your topic you put the word HOLINESS in quotes. I have a revelational knowledge that the "modern day" hyper-grace has become the devil's most potent tool that has kept many supposed children of the kingdom in self delusion and deceit. My dear grace found us while we were yet sinners and through belief in Christ, confession of sins and forsaking of old things, translated us into his marvelous light; wonderful! Grace through the death and resurrection of our LORD Jesus Christ is the best thing to happen to humanity; the devil knowing this has stepped in to counterfeit it to the detriment of undecerning, fun seeking "come and remain as you are" Christians. My sister(as your profile depicts), our problem in the practice of Grace is the inability to separate the flesh from the spirit. Man is a spirit, having a soul and dwelling in a body(temple). On redemption the spirit is cleansed and renewed by the blood of Christ; but the flesh still remains flesh that's why if you were crippled before salvation, you still remain so there after till a healing miracle happens. It is after salvation that the war between the spirit and the flesh begins. Apostle Paul the pioneer of Grace teaching realised this and knew he needed to do something by himself and not wait for grace 1 Corinthians 9:27 But I(spirit) keep under my body(flesh), and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. Words in bracket are mine. So my dear sister it our duty to discipline the flesh not the duty of Grace. Eph 4:22 that YE put off concerning the former conversation the Old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts. You see the instruction? YE(me and you) put off the old man Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[b] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. I am an advocate of righteousness and holiness as that's the only ticket to see God Hebrews 12:14 A lot to say dear sister but I must stop here for now. The Lord be with and strengthen you in your resolve to live for Christ. I Pray for you may your expectations never be cut off and your desires granted. The Lord cause his countenance to shine upon you and give you peace. Above all; may you never miss heaven this says it all...... wonderful piece |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 8:37pm On Apr 16, 2017 |
I'm sorry for this late reply. Let me just go straight to the points Captain001:I can see what you are saying. It's so shocking to see people deep in sin and "deep in grace" at the same time. This group partly understands and have what is called a "passing taste" of the new covenant. But they show no evidence of regeneration because they have not the Spirit of Christ in them. And because they have not Christ they preach licentiousness. Another dangerous group consists of legalistic law keepers who seek righteousness from keeping the law, or doing good,etc. This is an age-long group that had existed even before Christ walked the earth. Both groups are dangerous and contradict the gospel. It is our duty to expose them. [i] This is where there is a problem. It's important to note that this gospel of Grace has been under attack since the day it was first preached. The enemy has not ceased to counterfeit it on all sides. If he had started to do this two thousand years back, just think of how much progress he has made. By now, his gospels are now everywhere and preached by almost everyone. Which means there is a higher percentage of running into his ministers than the ministers of the true gospel. In short he has advanced in such a way that men will naturally feel comfortable in his false churches and willingly receive his false gospels. If you so much as add just a human requirement to the gospel you take away its power. And you turn the gospel into another gospel. This is what the deceiver has done. He adds to the gospel to give men a sense of control. And because men are naturally hostile to the things of God it is not hard for them to believe these false gospels. Examples of things added to the gospel of salvation include: -Confession of sins -Surrendering your life to God -Forsaking of sins -Living righteously -Loving God. These things of themselves are not bad but when they become means of obtaining salvation they become spoilers and take away the power of the gospel. Instead they are^^ the fruits of salvation. They are what we manifest after we are saved. HOW DOES SALVATION HAPPEN? is there a clear explanation of this in the Bible? Yes. Our old Ephesians2:8 says salvation is by grace through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God lest anyone should boast Salvation takes a simple process. By grace THROUGH FAITH ALONE. faith alone. WHICH IS A GIFT. Not Faith plus confession of sins. Not faith plus forsaking of sins. Not faith plus loving God. BUT THROUH FAITH. why do men add to this? I'll tell you. Its because they have no experience of the power of the gospel. They don't know it. They don't understand it. And because they lack the security that the gospel gives to men, they device their own means and get themselves "saved". Let me bring this to your knowledge (again). There is a power in the gospel. And this power is what quickens the dead spirits of men. The gospel does not need help. It is capable by itself to bring a man from death to life. All the power that is needed to turn a soul to God has been deposited by God in the gospel. Do you know that it is for this^^ that Paul said I am not ashamed of the gospel. For it is the power of God to bring one unto salvation. To the Jew first, and to the gentiles Romans 1:16 Why do you think Paul was not persuading men according to the wisdom of this world but was instead determined to preach something so foolish to men? Why? Because God put his power in that "foolish thing". And that's the only way men can be saved. The wisdom of this world runs on a merit based system. WE-MUST-DO-SOMETHING-TO-BE-BLESSED-BY-GOD system. We must do something to obtain eternal life. It says, " Even if we don't do all, we must still do something no matter how little to have eternal life." But God would not share His glory with any man. He removed everything, not even one he left, that men think they can do from the gospel. He made salvation by grace through faith alone. (And faith is a spiritual gift too) to remove boasting. So no flesh can glory before Him. And he found a way. He chose something all men would consider "foolish". The Jews would want signs/miracles instead and the Gentiles will pursue the wisdom of this world. Now He has made all men hostile to the gospel so that whatever draws them to Him would not be anything in themselves but God Himself through His gospel. Indeed the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God stronger than men 1Corinthians 1:25. The gospel is not a mere message offering salvation , it carries the power to save the most wretched man that has ever walked the earth. That's why Paul said in 1Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know anything save Jesus and Him crucified That's the sum of the gospel we preach. Christ's death, burial and resurrection. [i]True. Very true. But I must tell you it is not only the "fun seeking" Christians who are told to come as they are, the Christians who are seeking to attain righteousness through their obedience or works in order to escape damnation (and not because they have the love of Christ) are also allowed to come as they are. And these organised churches run by false gospels would give them rule books on how to achieve their goals. They won't preach the gospel since they don't love it and still see it as foolish. Lol Noooo. This is not a very good analogy.The problem is lack of faith in the finished work of Christ. Many too many lack faith in the finished work of Christ. Remember, salvation is by grace through faith. And we live the Christian life by faith. It is by faith that we are saved It is by faith that we are made righteous It is by faith that we are sanctified It is by faith that we are justified. Okay... Hey!!  You can do better than this right! Paul extensively talked about the war between his old man and his new man in Romans 7 He said if he wanted to do the right thing he found another law in his members walking against him and causing him to do those things he did not want to do. How can you think you can do anything without grace! Are you a better man than Paul? Paul said He can do all things through Christ who strengthens me Phillipians 4:13. Who gives Paul strength? Christ. In how many things? In all things. Why then do you say we should abandon grace and subject our bodies ourselves. That would be walking IN the flesh. Because Grace is giving when we walk in the Spirit by faith. After explaining the war in him, Paul exclaimed in Romans 7:24,25 O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death. I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.So then with the mind I serve the law of Christ, but with the flesh the law of sins You are a wretched man. I am a wretched woman. It is is only God through Jesus that can save us from ourselves. We cant help God do this. It is solely the work of God. By grace through faith. You cant do any of these things except through faith. To walk in the Spirit is to walk in faith. You must understand that those in Christ have been crucified with him (Ie the old man) They are no longer living. It is now Christ living his life in us by faith in him. |i] And without holiness shall no one see God... true but it's no longer our holiness but Christ holiness. It is no longer our righteousness but Christ righteousness. Christ in us is our hope of glory Colossians 1:27 Thank you I wrote this with a heavy heart and a lot of sighing in me. My heart desire is that you come to understand these things I have said. I pray God reveals them to you |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by Splinz(m): 7:48pm On Apr 17, 2017 |
Hello An2elect2, how are you ma'am? Greetings! Yes, I've seen your honest strives and zeal for the word of God, which is why I want us to reason together as regarding your submissions below: An2elect2: For the first half of this statement, I say YES! But for the remaining part of it, I have some reservations to make, as will be seen as we progress. An2elect2: Yes, and it is also true that there is a righteousness that comes through the Law, i.e, works (Romans 7:12). An2elect2: Again, there is sanctification through the Law. An example is the Sabbath law that sanctifies those who keep it (Genesis 2:3). An2elect2: And we are also justified by works of the Law (Romans 2:13). I know you may be wondering what these is all about. Am I trying to prove that salvation can be earn through works? Not at all! Am I trying to prove that faith and works are inseparable? Yes! Here is it: Salvation simply means “saved from death”, and this saving power has no man except God since “all have sinned” (Romans 3:23) and as a result, earn the wages of sin which is death (Romans 6:23). In other word, as a sinner, the only way one can possibly pay for his sins is to die eternally, which is just the opposite of what God is offering the world through His Son—eternal life. By implication, it means that our “legal indebtedness”, which is death, has been cancelled and “nailed” to the cross (Colossians 2:14). Understand. There is absolutely nothing that one can do to earn his/her salvation except to accept or be given salvation as a GIFT, since what we can only earn and have been earning is death! But how did this gift of God through faith come about, and what are you to do with this gift, or what is expected of you? This lead us to the next part—works. The Bible says “Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness (Genesis 15:6, Romans 4:3). But is that the end of it? Here's what James has to say: “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God” (James 2:21-23). The end of the story. Yes! Abraham didn't just believe God and that ends it, no! Abraham's faith was accompanied with works—obedience to God and His Law (Genesis 26:5). No wonder Paul said that “It is not the hearers of the law that are justified but the DOERS!” It is simple. When Abraham was tested by God, he believed what God said through faith and then proceeded to work which was to offer his son. In the same vein, when someone is called to be a Christian (John 6:44, 65), there are at least three stages that he/she must pass through: 1. Repentance 2. Baptism 3. Receiving of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). Now talking of repentance, this is serious work! Yes, one must first of all make conscious efforts of rejecting his former ways, and then go on to receive baptism, believing that his sins will be washed away and he/she saved at that very moment. In all of these stages, faith and works are inseparable! One just doesn't believe in Jesus and that ends it, actually, where there is faith, there is of necessity, works to accompany it! (James 2:18). Finally, as a further proof that salvation is not automatic and not entirely free (it is free to us but not to God. It cost Him His Son), Paul admonishes us to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” (Philippians 2:12). And what does God requires from us, for giving us such a precious gift? Ephesians 2:10 answered: “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them”. And also “...appointed that you should go out and bear fruits...” (John 15:16). What fruit? One may say the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Of course, correct. But how do you exhibit these fruits, by just preaching it or by practicing it through works? What about love which is vitally important? How do you practice it? Again, the Scripture answers: “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and His commandments are not grievous” (1 John 5:3) and “love is the fulfilling of the law” (Romans 13:10). In conclusion, “You have faith and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith” (James 2:18). PS: “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” “So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead” (verse 24 & 17). 2 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 12:21am On Apr 18, 2017 |
Splinz:Hi Greetings! You are welcome. ok
This is Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy and the commandment holy, and just and good Was this what you intended quoting? From the verse above there is nothing indicating righteousness through the law/works, it only stated that the Law is holy, just and good. Now, the Bible is very clear about how righteousness is inputted into us. Not only did it say it is by faith it also went ahead to refute any claim of obtaining righteousness through the law/works. A very good example would be Romans 9:31-32 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; How simple. We can't obtain righteousness through the law, we can only obtain self righteousness. Faith is what counts. To tell you how useless works based righteousness is look how it is completely ignored by God in our regeneration. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
OK let's look at it. Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. Again there is no where in this verse where sanctification is said to also be through the law. Neither does it say the Sabbath law sanctifies those who keep it. It simply says God blessed and sanctified the Sabbath day. ie by sanctifying that day, he set aside that day as a special day for resting. Nothing more. Now coming to the new covenant, we come to see the substance or the real Sabbath, which is Christ. In Hebrews 4:1-11 Please look at it. It's quite long to quote. It's summarily talking about the rest that we must enter, Which is his rest Vs 2 is talking about the different dispensations. Those in the old even though they observed the Sabbath day could not enter into his rest because they heard the gospel but had no faith to believe in it and rest (cease from their works). SO THERE REMAINS A REST. vs 10 for he that is entered into his rest, he also had cease from his works, as God did from his. That is he that believes the gospel, the finished work of Christ-vs3 (and does not work to obtain righteousness,sanctification, justification, etc) will enter into his rest. So Santification isn't by law keeping but by faith in Christ who is our sanctification 1Corinthians 1:30
Romans 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God but the doers True. Not the hearers are justified but the doers. Let me explain what this means. In doing this I will explain who the hearers and the doers are. You'd be surprised they are not what you think they are! First we know that the law is holy and just and good but we are nothing but Sin. The Law only tells us what is right and wrong. It doesn't give us the power to do them. Ie it cannot make us righteous. The Israelites had the Law, they heard the DOs and DON'Ts of the law but being carnal sold under sin and slaves of sin, they were powerless to keep the law. Even the most "well intentioned" person couldn't. Sin took advantage of the law and wrought in me all manner of concupiscence, for without the law sin was dead Romans 7:8. Without the law, we would not know where,when we offend God but the Law was introduced to bring us to this knowledge. What am I trying to say, men can only hear the law but they can't do what it says. We are naturally just hearers but not doers So it is not the person that hears that is right before God but the one that does that is right. And from what we've seen so far, no man is born a doer of the law. NO MAN CAN KEEP THE LAW. But one man did! And He said Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Matthew 5:17 He came to do what we could not do, what we cannot do, what we can never do. He didn't come to destroy the law, he came to fulfill it. Why? So that we can obtain righteousness through faith in Him which we could not obtain by the law. What Adam could not do, He did. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.Romans 5:19 In Romans 2 Paul was trying to tell the Israelites who were trying to obtain righteousness by the works of the law (and of course they failed) that the gentiles who didn't have the law of commandments but were doing what is in the law were justified. How? By faith in Christ. In believing Christ's finished work, God Himself writes these laws in their hearts. vs 15. Hebrews 10:16 confirms this. This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds. Guess what they will work out/bear/manifest? What is inside their hearts? And what is inside? The laws of God! They are not working for righteousness but trusting in Christ to live IN them. And when Christ is living in them, the law is upheld automatically. The sinner in Christ does not need to go back to the law for righteousness, Christ obedience has made him righteous. And now Christ lives in him. About Faith and Works. It's true we can't have one without the other but they come in order. One comes first. And Faith it is. Faith before works. Seed before fruits. OK... ok... Lol do you not understand what this faith we are talking about? Do you think this Faith in Christ is an abstract thing? Do you know what we have? We have Christ in us. What do you think Christ is doing in us when we believe? Idling away? or listing out instructions for us to follow. LOL. CHRIST IS LIVING IN US. CHRIST IS FULFILLING HIS OBEDIENCE IN US. splintz if at this point you are still trying to obtain righteousness by faith and by works then have you ever thought about a startling fact that you have not experienced this power that I've been talking about from the beginning. Paul: Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test? 2Corinthians 13:5 If Christ is in you why do you have little faith or no faith at all in him? Why do you think that with Christ inside of you you will still continue in sin as you were before he found you? Examine yourself. If Christ is inside of you you will join me in testifying of his goodness because He will not let you continue in sin. He is stronger than what is stronger than you! You can't defeat sin but Christ can. That's why He has to live IN us. Romans 7! Back to Abraham and faith and works. It is very clear in all scriptures that Abraham was justified, declared not guilty by faith. His faith was counted as righteousness. Even in James. Scriptures are to be in harmony right? They can't contradict. From Genesis down to the apostles we are told that Abraham was made righteous by faith and the epistles have these almost on all pages confirming that men are made righteous by faith. So why is James saying men are justified by faith and works and not faith alone like the other scriptures? Are we dishonest men and women? If not let us face this squarely. No scripture contradicts another but when we come across one that seems to contradict ( because of our misunderstanding) we must interpret contextually. James started thus in 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory with respect of persons. Apart from stating that the faith of Jesus does not discriminate against persons, James is bringing to our notice something profound which many ignore which is that the faith we preach is alive and bears fruits. And one of the fruits it does not bear is discrimination. Did you see that? James is saying if you have the faith of Christ prove it through your works because even the devil believes that there is God. Anybody can claim they have faith but there is only one faith that bears fruits. That is the faith of Jesus, the faith we preach. If you claim to have the faith of Christ and it does not bear fruits/good works in you then your faith is not of Christ but a dead faith. Can this dead faith save a man? No Which faith saves? The faith that produces works. If it does not produce works or bears fruits that faith is not alive and cannot save. vs 14 What does it profit my brethren, though a man say he hath faith and hath no works? can faith save him? James is saying "in scriptural harmony" that how can a man say he has faith but yet we can't see goodworks or changes in him. It means that man has another faith which cannot save. This faith is a dead one. vs 17 Even so faith if it hath no works, is dead, being alone. See this! Remember. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them UNTO GOOD WORKS. if we don't show good works then our faith is not rooted in Christ but is dead. Abraham's obedience to offer Isaac upon the altar was the evidence of his faith in God. He wasn't justified by works before God but before men. But he was justified by faith alone before God who searches the hearts unlike men who judge from the outside. Only God can see faith in us but men need to see our works to confirm our faith. Works fulfil(show perfectly) faith. This is like saying the bearing of fruits shows seeds beneath the ground we can't see. vs 21,22,23 Was not Abraham our father justified by works. when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? See thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect. And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God and it was inputted unto him for righteousness, and he was called the friend of God Lol. Lol. We already talked about salvation through the gospel. Check previous post. You can't add to it else you take its power and the sinner remains unsaved. Finally, as a further proof that salvation is not automaticBy this you mean, there are things you need to do to gain "complete salvation". Well, it's not scriptural. and not entirely free (it is free to us but not to God. It cost Him His Son), Paul admonishes us to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” (Philippians 2:12).Lol take note work out not work for And what does God requires from us, for giving us such a precious gift? Ephesians 2:10 answered: “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them”. And also “...appointed that you should go out and bear fruits...” (John 15:16).Exactly! But this is not a requirement, this is God's handwork in us, forming and conforming us to the image of His son What fruit? One may say the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Of course, correct. But how do you exhibit these fruits, by just preaching it or by practicing it through works?ooooh Splintz how do you practice fruits through works? Are these fruits not the works already. Are fruits hidden? What about love which is vitally important? How do you practice it?The love of God shed abroad in your heart doesn't need your work or practice for it to manifest. It will manifest by itself Again, the Scripture answers: “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and His commandments are not grievous” (1 John 5:3) and “love is the fulfilling of the law” (Romans 13:10).This is true but it's not saying what you are saying
The summary of James is Genuine faith produces works while dead faith doesnt. It's not saying righteousness is by faith plus works |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by Splinz(m): 7:24pm On Apr 18, 2017 |
An2elect2: Oh sorry, I thought you were matured enough to understand the passage. I think it has to do with the translation you're using. Now, aside the fact that translations like NIV has “righteous” on its translation, the word “just” as used here and in other translations is the same thing as righteous. I expected you to understand this much. You can't deny the fact that the Law is righteous, whether you called it just or not, it still means the same thing. The psalmist wrote: “All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal” (Psalm 119:160). Since the Law is also righteous, it then invariably means that those who obey the spirit of the Law are also righteous. It is simple. Just like those who practice such things as fornication, murder, stealing etc, are labeled sinners/unrighteous, those who keep the Law can also be correctly say that they are righteous, by virtue of the fact that the Law is righteous or just! However, like I've already explained, there's no need confusing faith and works, which is: 1. Accept the sacrifice of Jesus through faith 2. Go forth and show thy fruits/works. I've already made it clear that for the fact that we are all sinners bound under death sentence, there is of necessity, a savior. But I repeat, it doesn't just end in believing in Jesus, for even the demons believed in Him too! (James 2:19). Does it mean they too are saved? No! The distinguishing factor between they that are of God and Satan is their works! An2elect2: Of course there's something more, you just couldn't discern it just like you couldn't see the righteousness of the Law. Here's more understanding to show that the Sabbath law sanctifies those who keep it: “Moreover also I gave them my Sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them” (Ezekiel 20:12). How does God sanctifies His people here? Through His Sabbaths! It is commonsensical. For the fact that sanctification was bestowed on the Sabbath law, it then simply means that those who keep this law are also sanctified. What do they say again—like begets like? Yeah... An2elect2: Your explanation could have make much more sense had it not been the statement in bold. I think admitting the fact that it is the doers of the Law that are justified and not the hearers, and at the same time turning around to say that “no man can keep the law” is contradictory. Yes, for if no one can keep the law, how then are the doers of the Law justified? That statement would have been a valid one if it was made around BC, not AD. What! If you can't keep the Law, what then were you delivered from, was it not from lawlessness which lead us to death? (Titus 2:14). The Law can be kept! (Matthew 19:17). An2elect2: Again, such statement in bold seems to suggest that a Christian is some sort of a robot—not liable to sin. Understand. The essence of the Holy Spirit in one's life is to help him/her to keep God's holy, good and righteous Law, since this Law is spiritual. Nothing is automatic here! If it were, Paul wouldn't have talked of the impossibility of bringing back to repentance, those that have fallen away into full scale errors (Hebrews 6:4-6). So going by your understanding, how can those AUTOMATICALLY UPHOLDING the Law fall back into sin? Also, by implication, you're saying that a Christian can't sin again. Do I need to remind you of the danger of such self-deceit? (1 John 1:8 ). A Christian walk is that of growing and overcoming, and this route is never an easy one (Matthew 7:14). To grow “unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ” (Ephesians 4:13) doesn't depict automatic attainment, but a gradual walk of walking and falling here and there. Though we shouldn't sin, but if we do as humans, we have an advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1). An2elect2: I don't know what you mean by going back to “the Law for righteousness”, since in fact, Christ who gave us this Law in the first place and called it “holy, righteous and good” has already said He will put this Law into our hearts. The question is: Why is He doing that, since this Law has no righteousness? What is the essence of keeping the Law? Christ obedience is not your obedience, rather, it is an example to follow His steps! (1 Peter 2:21). Christ could have simply said: “Well, you don't need to keep the Law again, I have done it for you”, when He was asked what to do for one to inherit eternal life (Matthew 19:17). But He said “keep the commandments”. This dismisses any lazy thought of claiming His obedience as yours. Yes, He lives in you not to control your life like a robot but to help and guide you in making right choices as He did when He was on earth! Anything contrary to this understanding means we're not really in control of our senses, but programmed. One can still disobey Christ and sin, hence, the instructions in 1 John 2:1. Sitting back and claiming Christ obedience as yours is a very lazy mentality. His sufficient grace to you wasn't for idleness but to wage a good warfare and endure to the end for you to receive your reward (1 Timothy 6:12, 2 Timothy 2:3-10, Matthew 24:13, Rev. 2:26). So do you now see that this salvation is only granted at the end, to those who overcome just like Christ did? Can you see that there's nothing automatic about it? An2elect2: Thank you. This is the end of the matter—my contentions. You should have simply spare us the long essay by saying this. Or was I saying anything contrary? So by your own admission, we must not only preach faith, faith, faith, at the expense of works which is equally important, as doing so is not only deceptive but dangerous. Like you've said, it must be in order—faith and then works. Yes, we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling. I can say that this discussion was a fruitful one, and we've agreed. So, nice talking to you. |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 9:17pm On Apr 18, 2017 |
^^It's obvious we all need eyes to see. And God alone gives that. God bearing me witness, I have said what He himself has taught me through His word |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by An2elect2(f): 12:42pm On Apr 19, 2017 |
Galatians 3:10-12 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by madegreatbygrace(m): 6:22pm On Apr 19, 2017 |
Dear splinz,pls lets be contextual when we read the bible.You quoted romans 2:13 but it is obvious you didnt read 2:12.When you combine those two verses you'll come to realize that those justified by works are those who sinned without the law and those who sinned in the law .These two categories belong to the old testament.This is not applicable to new testament believers.There is nowhere in the new testament where believers are said to be justified by works.You'll never find it there.Never! |
| Re: "Holiness" Preachers And Believers AND FALSE ASSURANCE by Splinz(m): 6:39pm On Apr 19, 2017 |
madegreatbygrace: Dear grace, thank you. However, it is also obvious that you're quoting me out of context. I know what I have up there is a bit lengthy, which is why I urge you to take your time and read it, and then bring forth your objections in detailed form. I think I've done much in clarifying my contentions and I believed Op understand that much. While you are at it, check your bold statement again. 2 Likes |
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