funmisticqueen:
so are you telling me that jesus turning water into wine is a sin because i am sure the wine in the scripture is alcoholic if not it will be called grape juice, not wine, my dear wisdom is profitable to direct. 1 tim 5:23,ps 104:15, eph 5:18. If you want more i got more. Bottoms up

ibolomo:

I half expected you to quote the wedding at Cana. That is what many drunks use to defend their nefarious ways. And by the way, "grape juice" was not a thing in Jesus' time, whether grape juice was alcoholic or not, it was called wine throughout the Bible.
you should read the last Chapter of the book of proverbs to see the class of people that are allowed and disallowed from drinking wine.

Danpersie31:
On this wonderful eas ter sunday, it keeps pondering in my heart why people select the kind of gospel (message) they want to hear . I mean some people don't want to hear that drinking alcohol is a sin, but tend to compensate by saying drinking is not bad but getting drunk is. The most alarming part is the area of prosperity, people prefer to hear about prosperity than about salvation and heaven and hell. Some people i have asked insist that they are discerning the gospel as stipulated in the bible. Is this therefore discerning the gospel or selecting the gospel? Happy ressurection.

ibolomo:

I half expected you to quote the wedding at Cana. That is what many drunks use to defend their nefarious ways. And by the way, "grape juice" was not a thing in Jesus' time, whether grape juice was alcoholic or not, it was called wine throughout the Bible.
you should read the last Chapter of the book of proverbs to see the class of people that are allowed and disallowed from drinking wine.

Processor01:


I believe you should be the one doing the reading then juxtapose it to Paul's advice to Deacons & Bishops in 1 Timothy and Titus.

ibolomo:

What I mean by inferences in my earlier post was not rote learning of the scripture, but proper study of historical, biblical and spiritual contexts on the topic of alcohol.
Inference as I used meant that there were several places in scripture talking about the topic of alcohol.
I do not believe in study of the Bible outside the Holy Spirit, and I am already under tutelage of the Spirit in my study of the Bible.
What I meant is that many people read the Bible with modern cultural perspectives, but to completely understand the contexts of scripture (with the help of the Holy Spirit), one has to 'go back in time' to the languages and traditions of the Israelites.
And by the way, starting to blast scriptures on such a controversial topic as alcohol intake would derail the thread, hence my asking him to create a special thread where his concerns on alcohol will be dealt with

Processor01:


I do not believe in all these you wrote up there - often times, this is how the religious lot are confused and set on doctrines of men.

Simply show me verses in the scripture based on your revelations from the Holy Spirit and why 'alcohol' is bad - i don't believe that is too much to ask. For the records, i am not trying to advocate for alcoholism but trying to correct the typical Naija views on christianity.

funmisticqueen:
dont mind him, he hasnt supplied scripture to support his claim.

ibolomo:

Proverbs 31:1-7 for one (take note that it was Solomon's mother advising him)

I once held the belief that alcohol isn't a sin, and by the way, I never said it was. What I said in my original post is that is it not good

when I read that alcohol is meant for those that are ready to perish, na so my hand fall

If a new believer sees brother Titus who preached and led him to Christ in a beer parlour (sipping gently so as not to be drunk) or mall buying Heineken, what do you think the believer will think or do, when the new believer himself was once a drunkard?
The Bible says all things are lawful, but not all things are expedient, and that if eating meat will make a fellow brother stumble, you should refrain from doing such.
Besides, what difference will there be between brother Titus in a beer parlour, and Baba Kamaru, the chronic womaniser and town drunk? I guess he will pray over and bless the beer before drinking?

And by the way, how do you define "much wine", "drunkenness", being "drunk with wine", "perverting justice under the influence of wine"? What exact quantity counts as getting drunk? Research has shown that as little as half a cup or 12 ounces of beer can get a person drunk. Please tell me how the Christian will "guage" the amount of alcohol intake to prevent getting drunk, when one of the characteristics of being drunk is thinking you are not as drunk as you really are?

finally, please give me a few instances in the Bible where alcohol paid off and advantages of taking alcohol (knowing that your body already produces enough alcohol that it needs).

Some say that Timothy was told by Paul to drink alcohol for his ailment, I ask those what ailment they are trying to ease, and what happened to modern medicines like aspirine in easing such pain.

All in all, I don't think that taking alcohol IN itself is a sin, but that by taking it, you cannot but commit sin. Happy Easter

ibolomo:

I now have Ma. you should read it and ask yourself whether it is possible to drink alcohol and not commit sin.
I didn't feel like typing the long epistle at first, but then.
Have a nice day and Happy Easter

ibolomo:

I now have Ma. you should read it and ask yourself whether it is possible to drink alcohol and not commit sin.
I didn't feel like typing the long epistle at first, but then.
Have a nice day and Happy Easter

Danpersie31:
On this wonderful eas ter sunday, it keeps pondering in my heart why people select the kind of gospel (message) they want to hear . I mean some people don't want to hear that drinking alcohol is a sin, but tend to compensate by saying drinking is not bad but getting drunk is. The most alarming part is the area of prosperity, people prefer to hear about prosperity than about salvation and heaven and hell. Some people i have asked insist that they are discerning the gospel as stipulated in the bible. Is this therefore discerning the gospel or selecting the gospel? Happy ressurection.

Processor01:

No Sir, that was not Solomon's mother. It was written to a certain King Lemuel, nevertheless, Solomon used same as inspired by God.


Keep in mind that what may be good for you may be very good for me. Looking at that in the light of Romans 14, you are not allowed to judge me in what i eat or drink.


Quote scripture and i will present it in context.


Now, you are beginning to come around the crux of what the bible teaches which is LOVE! Even though your description is still a bit self oriented and all about your image as a christian, i will explain it here (Pay attention because this was my first teaching when i got born-again and no, it wasn't in any church or taught by any MoG)

1 Corinthians 8:7 (NASB)
However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1 Corinthians 8:8 (NASB)
But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat.
1 Corinthians 8:9 (NASB)
But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
1 Corinthians 8:10 (NASB)
For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol’s temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols?
1 Corinthians 8:11 (NASB)
For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died.
1 Corinthians 8:12 (NASB)
And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.
1 Corinthians 8:13 (NASB)
Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.

If you read through that verse at relate it to alcohol you will understand that with God, alcohol is not a matter of sin or not but about not using your liberty or self control with alcohol to cause a younger christian to stumble. Ever wondered why Paul advised Deacons and Bishops against much wine in 1 Timothy and Titus?

Ok, since every word of truth is established by 2 or more witness, here goes the second scripture buttressing my point.

Romans 14:2 (NASB)
One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
Romans 14:3 (NASB)
The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.
Romans 14:6 (NASB)
He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.
Romans 14:13 (NASB)
Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way.
Romans 14:14 (NASB)
I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Romans 14:15 (NASB)
For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.
Romans 14:16 (NASB)
Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil.

Do you also see that this scripture is talking about love for your brother and not whether you think alcohol is a sin or about your image as a christian? This is what Christ came for, LOVE! Trying to but a tag on alcohol is doing exactly what the pharisees did - to make themselves look holy and righteous.


I believe a little use of 'google' to understand what Wine is made of will do you good. BTW, research has also show that people can get drunk from Coca Cola - help yourself with google if in doubts.
I don't understand what you mean by "gauging the amount of alcohol intake to prevent getting drunk" - how do you gauge the amount of food you require to get full? Why is self-control one of the basis of christian living?



Help yourself with google for the advantages - that is not the focus of my discussion! I wonder who made Palm-wine and what it was made for, perhaps, flushing our toilets


Very wrong approach to get anyone changed - you should be walking your talk in love.



By eating you can commit the sin. By talking you can also commit sin. I can give more example but i believe you get the message...Happy Easter Brother!

funmisticqueen:
pls show us

ibolomo:

This was what I typed. I guess you didn't go through my other post.



Proverbs 31:1-7.
I once held the belief that alcohol isn't a sin, and by the way, I never said it was. What I said in my original post is that is it not good.
when I read that alcohol is meant for those that are ready to perish, na so my hand fall.
If a new believer sees brother Titus who preached and led him to Christ in a beer parlour (sipping gently so as not to be drunk) or mall buying Heineken, what do you think the believer will think or do, when the new believer himself was once a drunkard?
The Bible says all things are lawful, but not all things are expedient, and that if eating meat will make a fellow brother stumble, you should refrain from doing such.
Besides, what difference will there be between brother Titus in a beer parlour, and Baba Kamaru, the chronic womaniser and town drunk? I guess he will pray over and bless the beer before drinking?
And by the way, how do you define "much wine", "drunkenness", being "drunk with wine", "perverting justice under the influence of wine"? What exact quantity counts as getting drunk? Research has shown that as little as half a cup or 12 ounces of beer can get a person drunk. Please tell me how the Christian will "guage" the amount of alcohol intake to that would be required to make him/her drunk, when one of the characteristics of being drunk is thinking you are not as drunk as you really are?
finally, please give me a few instances in the Bible where alcohol paid off and advantages of taking alcohol (knowing that your body already produces enough alcohol that it needs).
Some say that Timothy was told by Paul to drink alcohol for his ailment, I ask those what ailment they are trying to ease, and what happened to modern medicines like aspirine in easing such pain.


All in all, I don't think that taking alcohol IN itself is a sin, but that by taking it, you cannot but commit sin. Happy Easter