JMAN05:


Do you have facts about the case? When was the case held? Who handled it, and what do they say with regards to the woman's claim?

To be fair, you would have to hear from both sides on how the case was handled, what was considered, what she said and witnesses supporting that that was what she said during the hearing before you can determine whether or not is was poorly handled. If you post issues from just one side, even the court of law will be against you. You are not being fair.

No one, I repeat no one, is ever or will ever be disfellowshiped for being a victim of domestic abuse according to the bible, and that can never be supported by the gov body of JWs. If you say that being a victim of domestic abuse and complaining about it would fetch one disfellowshiped among JWs, give me a publication of JWs that empowers elders to hand down such decision.

If ever you are disfellowshiped, it would have to be a serious sin you committed, not being a victim of an abuse. Can you guys be honest at least for once? Can you?

If adhering to bible standards is what you term "breaking families" , so be it, let that family break. Any wrongdoer has to face the music he played. God law says such one should be shown the way out. In ancient Israel, the mosaic law stated that such law breakers be STONED TO DEATH, not even disfellowshiped. They should be killed. You must be ready to obey Gods standards no matter how bad you fill about it. In Aaron's case, he would have preferred that his sons be disfellowshiped than for them to be killed by God himself. And he was sternly told not to weep for them. Was that difficult? Then if you are a law breaker among Gods people rejoice that you are still alive, otherwise, your sentence should be death.

No one however, is disfellowshiped for complaining he is being violently abused.

OneJ:

@PastorAIO: U are a LIAR. A very shameless one at that. No one, I repeat, No JW man or woman has ever been " disfellowshipped for being a victim of domestic violence & complaining about it". I know everything there is to know about JW in & out, & with 200% confidence, I affirm that U LIED, pastor of falsehood. U are NEVER forced to listen or accept JW's into ur home. But resist the itch to copy & paste falsehood & lies to malign Jehovah's name. Shalom

PastorAIO:


unfortunately whenever I respond to these posts I get a ban. I don't know if I'll get another ban now for writing this response. If so too bad. I just take it as a cue that my time on Nairaland is over.

PastorAIO:


If you are not expert in Hebrew Latin and Greek then how can you be sure to trust the translation of the bible that you carry about. That bible was translated by your JW ogas from Greek and Hebrew. They changed many things that are integral to general christian doctrine on the basis that they are not the correct translation of the greek/hebrew. Yet you trust them.

How and Why do you trust that bible that is so different from other bibles when you don't know any greek and hebrew yourself?

OneJ:
@Pastor AI0: There is no forgery in the NWT Bible or do U mean the forgery in 1John 5:7, 1 Tim3:16, John1:1 KJV that U believe in ? Ignorance is a chronic disease. The oldest Hebrew,Aramaic & Greek manuscripts are available to verify the authentic rendering of God's word in its original form & meaning. NWT is a master piece among. Bible translations.

PastorAIO:


Good gosh, I have been on Nairaland for quite a long time you are right there. But where you are lying is where you say that I've been attacking Jehovah's Witnesses since I came to Nairaland. I haven't even addressed the JW matter in any thread. If you say I have then you have to show me the thread where I did. Otherwise, hold your peace

I started investigating JW when I got shocked by the manner that you and JMAN are conducting the discussion. It is pitiful. And now you want to scatter the issue by spewing random nonsense at length and tossing ad hominems back and forth in the hope that it will obfuscate the issue. O ma se o!

Like I said, I'm investigating JW and as I dig up more info I'll be posting it. Why? to better understand your methods of argument so that if I or anyone else engages you in discussion again we'll know what to expect.

PastorAIO:



During the trial which took place the following year, Ross’s defense attorney asked Russell if he knew the Greek alphabet. Russell’s reply was “Oh, yes.” When further asked to identify the Greek letters at the top of a page of the Greek Testament handed him, he was unable to do so, finally admitting that he knew nothing of the Greek alphabet. Furthermore, Russell had previously claimed to have been ordained by a recognized religious body. The defense also pressed him on this issue, finally asking point blank: “Now, you never were ordained by a bishop, clergyman, presbytery, council, or any body of men living?” Russell’s answer, after a long pause was, “I never was.”



Since you don't know greek and even your Lord and God, Charles Russell, doesn't know greek, then how do you know that the bible translation he gave you is accurate and not a falsehood. The JW bible claims to be based on the work of Prof. Julius Mantey a greek scholar. But what does Mantey himself say. He was so incensed that he actually wrote to WatchTower to complain.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnLHvmeNYq4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s69sc6o4qXA


Mantey's letter to WatchTower:


Dear Sirs:

I have a copy of your letterr addressed to Caris in Santa Ana, California, and I am writing to express my disagrement with statemetns made in that letter, as well as in quotations you have made from the Dana-Mantey Grek Grammar.

(1) Your statement: "their work allows for the rendering found in the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures at John 1:1," There is no statement in our grammare that was ever meant to imply that "a god" was a permissible translation in John 1:1.

A. We had no "rule" to argue in support of the trinity.

B. Neither did we state that we did have such intention. We were simply delineating the facts inherent in Biblical language.

C. You quotation from p. 148 (3) was a paragraph under the heading: "With the subject in a Copulative Sentence." Two examples occur here to illustrate that "the article points out the subject in these examples." But we made no statement in this paragraph about the predicate except that, "as it stands the other persons of the trinity may be implied ;in theos." And isn't that the oposite of what your translation "a god" infers? You quoted me out of context. On pages 139 and 140 (VI) in our grammar we stated: "without the article, theos signifies divine essence...'htheos en ho logos' emphasises Christ's participation in the essence of the divine nature." Our interpretation is in agreement with that in NEB and TED: "What God was, the Word was"; and with that of Barclay: "The nature of the Word was the same as the nature of God," which you quoted in you letter to Caris.

(2) Since Colwell's and Hasner's article in JBL, especially that of Harner, it is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 "The Word was a god." Word-order has made obsolete and incorrect such a rendering.

(3) Your quotation of Colewell's rule is inadequate because it quotes only a part of his findings. You did not quote this strong assertion: "A predicate nominative which precedes the verb cannot be translated as an indefinate or a 'qualitative' noun solely because of the absence of the article."

(4) Prof. Harner, Vol 92:1 in JBL, has gone beyond Colwell's research and has discovered that anathrous predicate nouns preceding the verb function primarily to express the nature or character of the subject. He found this true in 53 passages in the Gospel of John and 8 in the Gospel of Mark. Both scholars wrote that when indefiniteness was intended that gospel writers regularly placed the predicate noun after the verb, and both Colwell and Harner have stated that theos in John 1:1 is not indefinite and should not be transated "a god." Watchtower writers appear to be the only ones advocating such a translation now. The evidence appears to be 99% against them.

(5) Your statement in your letter that the sacred text itself should guide one and "not just someone's rulebook." We agree with you. But our study proves that Jehovah's Witnesses do the opposite of that whenever the "sacred text" differs with their heretical beliefs. For example the translation of kolasis as cutting off when punishment is the only meaning cited in the lexicons for it. The mistranslation of ego eimi as "I have been" in John 8:58, the addition of "for all time" in Heb. 9:27 when nothing in the Greek New Testament support is. The attempt to belittle Christ by mistranslating arche tes kriseos "beginning of the creation" when he is magnified as the "creator of all things" (John 1:2) and as "equal with God" (Phil. 2:6) before he humbled himself and lived a human body on earth. Your quotation of "The father is greater than I am, (John 14:28) to prove that Jesus was not equal to God overlooks the fact stated in Phil 2:6-8. When Jesus said that he was still in his voluntary state of humilation. That state ended when he assended to heaven. Why the attempt to deliberately deceive people by mispunctuation by placing a comma after "today" in Luke 23:43 when in the Greek, Latin, German and all English translations except yours, even in the Greek in you KIT, the comma occurs after lego (Isay) - "Today you will be with me in Paradise." 2 Cor 5:8, "to be out of the body and at home with the Lord." These passages teach that the redeemed go immediately to heaven after death, which does not agree with your teachings that death ends all life until the resurrection. (Ps. 23:6 and Heb 1:10)

The afore mentioned are only a few examples of Watchtower mistranslations and pervisions of Gods Word.

In view of the preceding facts, especially because you have been quoting me out of context, I herewith request you not to quote the Manual Grammare of the Greek New Testament again, which you have been doing for 24 years. Also that you not quote it or me in any of your publications from this time on. Also that you publicy and immediately apologize in the Watchtower magazine, since my words had no relevance to the absence of the article before theos in John 1:1. And please write to Caris and state that you misused and misquoted my "rule."

On the page before the preface in the grammar are these words: "All rights reserved - no part of this book may be reproduced in any form without permission in writing from the publisher."

If you have such permission, please send me a photo-copy of it. If you do not heed these requests you will suffer the consequences.

Regretfully yours, Julius R. Mantey

OneJ:
PastorA10, "Is Greek manuscript of John 1:1 proof of Trinity?". That topic exposes what is hidden. Pls read it again & again, that verse did not say "the word was the god." It is fraudulent to change "god" in the Greek manuscript to "God" in John1:1 to give it a different meaning to support man made fallacy. Acts 28:6 attests to the fraud in John1:1.
NWT ,Sahidic Coptic Bible & 14 other translations of the Bible were very correct, "the word was a god".
Besides, Is apostle John a liar (John20:30,31)?
1tim3:16, 1John5:7 (KJV) both are forgeries. If U know, U know.

PastorAIO:
I don't know what this has to do with the fact that you belong to a pedophilic mind controlling cult.

PastorAIO:
Where did I say anything about John 1:1?
Or about trinity for that matter.

PastorAIO:
Mantey, the greek scholar whose work JWs abused, has said that his work was abused and corrupted by JWs.
The founder of JW, Charles Taze Russell, the pedophile, perjured himself in court
by claiming that he could read greek and his translation was based on his own greek scholarship.
It turned out that he didn't even know the basic greek alphabet.
And that is the liar you want to base your hopes of salvation on. You're so pitiful.

PastorAIO:


I don't know what this has to do with the fact that you belong to a pedophilic mind controlling cult. Where did I say anything about John 1:1? Or about trinity for that matter. Mantey, the greek scholar whose work JWs abused, has said that his work was abused and corrupted by JWs. The founder of JW, Charles Taze Russell, the pedophile, perjured himself in court by claiming that he could read greek and his translation was based on his own greek scholarship. It turned out that he didn't even know the basic greek alphabet. And that is the liar you want to base your hopes of salvation on. You're so pitiful.

OneJ:

Pastor A10: Your posts above is an admixture of half truths & outright falsehood. Pls resist the temptation to post anything that catches your fancy.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/Ip-e/1953371

OneJ:
...

PastorAIO:


Mr Man, I've personally defended the 'and the word was a god' translation too many times in the past on this here obodo Nairaland. I cannot stop you from flogging this your straw man if that is your desperate intent.

However that is not the point I was raising. How did your oga, your diety, namely Charles Taze Russell, translate the bible when he admitted (finally) that he didn't understand greek?

OneJ:

Oga Pastor of falsehood, why U dey dodge to read the link I referred U to? U dey fear the truth? U still dey lie say Charles Russell " translated the Bible from Greek". Hahahahahaa.

PastorAIO:


Thank you for correcting that error. No, he didn't translate the bible in it's entirety but he loved to make up doctrines on the basis of greek words in the bible.

For instance Parousia. He used the reference to parousia in the New Testament to claim that Jesus had come to earth in 1874 but he was invisible.

Luckily Jesus had foreseen his likes and warned his followers:

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


The JW bible, namely NWT, was translated by a committee and the only person amongst them that knew a little bit of shoddy greek was Franz. True or False?

Matthew 24:26

OneJ:

Again,U refused to admit that U LIED against Mr Charles Russell with your false claims that he committed perjury, when indeed no court of law ever adjudged on it. That link I shared exposed your falsehood.

OneJ:

Make I help U small... go read the Wikipedia entry about NWT. Some praised it ,others criticised it that Jehovah appeared in the Greek Scriptures instead of kyrios (LORD). That criticism is expected. But U & I, know that "LORD" is a substitute for YHWH (thats Jehovah,Yahweh). & often times ,those passages where direct quotations of the old testament (OT)
For instance,Matt4:4 is a direct quote of Deut 8:3.,YHWH is there in the OT, not LORD.
Since Acts28:6 is "a god" then it is fraudulent to change John 1:1 to "God". (In the Greek manuscript it's lowercase "god". It's very clear that the NWT & 14 other Bible versions were more accurate than the popular ones which twist God's word.
The fact remains that NWT is among the best Bible versions available. Many persons I have met, who are not JWs own a copy& they attest that it's the most easy to read & understand. Actually,just like F.W.Franz, U don't need paper qualifications to study & gain understanding of God's word. A Committee of faithful ,God fearing Christians handled the project over many years & to Jehovah's glory, they did well. Shalom.

PastorAIO:



Can you then please tell me what the translation of greek Ego Eimi is into english?

Don't say you can't speak greek, you can easily check in a dictionary or concordance. Please check. This is the source of all the investigation into JW that I'm doing. I wanted to know why it is so hard for JWs to translate Ego Eimi into english.

OneJ:

Pls stop grasping on straws & face the truth. The Greek word "ego eimi means "I am", "I exist". Christendom dubiously attached a false interpretation to John8:58 in a desperate bid to defend the Trinity fallacy.
(Ego eimi commonly appears in many verses of the scriptures John 9:8,9. 14:6. 2sam2:19,20. Ex3:14. Matt 8:9. 2sam20:17. Luke 1:18,19. etc).
In a nutshell,in John 8:58, Jesus actually meant that he existed in the spirit realm before Abraham existed & before Christ's earthly sojourn . (Any other different interpretation na story story).
"Ego eimi" means "I am", "I exist", is the first person singular present tense of the verb "to be" in ancient Greek. When used as a copula,with a predicate"" I am X", then usage is equivalent to English. When used alone,with out a predicate, " I am" , "he is", "they are" , typically mean " I exist"
Source : "Ego eimi wikipedia"
Pastor A10, Ego eimi simply means " I am", "I exist"
NWT & 10 other Bible translations has similar
rendition of John 8:58. Shalom

OneJ:

Pls stop grasping on straws & face the truth. The Greek word "ego eimi means "I am", "I exist". Christendom dubiously attached a false interpretation to John8:58 in a desperate bid to defend the Trinity fallacy.
(Ego eimi commonly appears in many verses of the scriptures John 9:8,9. 14:6. 2sam2:19,20. Ex3:14. Matt 8:9. 2sam20:17. Luke 1:18,19. etc).
In a nutshell,in John 8:58, Jesus actually meant that he existed in the spirit realm before Abraham existed & before Christ's earthly sojourn . (Any other different interpretation na story story).
"Ego eimi" means "I am", "I exist", is the first person singular present tense of the verb "to be" in ancient Greek. When used as a copula,with a predicate"" I am X", then usage is equivalent to English. When used alone,with out a predicate, " I am" , "he is", "they are" , typically mean " I exist"
Source : "Ego eimi wikipedia"
Pastor A10, Ego eimi simply means " I am", "I exist"
NWT & 10 other Bible translations has similar
rendition of John 8:58. Shalom

Hairyrapunzel:

Just the way you guys dubiously put jehovah 218 times in the new testament when it never appears once.

OneJ:

Pls stop grasping on straws & face the truth. The Greek word "ego eimi means "I am", "I exist". Christendom dubiously attached a false interpretation to John8:58 in a desperate bid to defend the Trinity fallacy.

OneJ:
Oga Pastor ,"Ego eimi means "I am", "I exist" . U are just being dishonest, aside these Bible translations u quoted above, John 8:58 in 10 other versions reads "I exist". All of them ("I am", "I exist" are correct.
The point is that U guys dubiously assumed that "I am" means something else.
The wikipedia link I referred U to, explained everything in simple language but sorry to say,U prefer to be blind to it.

OneJ:
Oga Pastor ,"Ego eimi means "I am", "I exist" .

other versions reads "I exist". All of them ("I am", "I exist" are correct.
The point is that U guys dubiously assumed that "I am" means something else.

PastorAIO:


New World Translation
Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”


'I have been' does not equate to 'I exist' or 'I am'.

OneJ:
Oga Pastor,I do it deliberately because I wan know wetin U get for mind. U come talk am, gbam!!
English is not hard 4 U &I to comprehend. ".. before Abraham came into existence, I have been.." (1)Christ had been in heaven . 2)Christ had existed in heaven,3) Chris had lived before in heaven). All these sentences in brackets all mean the same thing except your ability to comprehend is missing. Or U are simply looking for straws to grasp.
Oga Pastor, again, U are just being dishonest. Why did I say so ? U quoted 11(eleven) Bible translations of John 8:58, word for word their sentences were not exactly the same but U & I, understand that, but because U wan put "bad label" for NWT ,u are looking for what exists only in the figment of your imagination.
Oga,pls repent !!

Hairyrapunzel:

Just the way you guys dubiously put jehovah 218 times in the new testament when it never appears once.