1 John 5: 17, says;

[size=16pt]All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does NOT lead to death. [/size]


So choose your sins wisely.

What death do u think d Bible is referring to? From my little knowledge that death means eternal burning in hell, so truly all sins lead to death.

mabsam:

What death do u think d Bible is referring to? From my little knowledge that death means eternal burning in hell, so truly all sins lead to death.

SO "[b]ALL [/b]sins lead to death"? But that is not what 1 John 5: 17 says. How do you reconcile that?

huxley:


So choose your sins wisely.

He he he

Roman6:23 WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH BUT THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH CHRIST JESUS.
OP. 1john5:17:ALL UNRIGHTEOUS IS SIN. Relate it to d above.If u fornicate,kill,hate ur neighbour,snatch boy friend/girl friend, All na sin&d wages is death.So may God help us&save our soul

toba:

Roman6:23 WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH BUT THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH CHRIST JESUS.
OP. 1john5:17:ALL UNRIGHTEOUS IS SIN. Relate it to d above.If u fornicate,kill,hate your neighbour,snatch boy friend/girl friend, All na sin&d wages is death.So may God help us&save our soul

No, for some of these sins (like adultery and fornication) the wages is not death as clearly stated in 1 John 5: 17 - (and there is sin that does NOT lead to death.).

I continue to like you for this huxley. You're usually humbly ignorant, not proudly so.

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother [believer] committing a sin that does not [lead to] death (the extinguishing of life), he will pray and [God] will give him life [yes, He will grant life to all those whose sin is not one leading to death]. There is a sin [that leads] to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
1Jn 5:17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin which does not [involve] death [that may be repented of and forgiven].

Let him who has eyes understand.

Mavenb0x:

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother [believer] committing a sin that does not [lead to] death (the extinguishing of life), he will pray and [God] will give him life [yes, He will grant life to all those whose sin is not one leading to death]. There is a sin [that leads] to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
1Jn 5:17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin which does not [involve] death [that may be repented of and forgiven].

Let him who has eyes understand.

Great response - so you OK with the doctrine that there are some sins that do not lead to death, are you?

Now, how does one distincguish which sins lead to death from sins that do not lead to death? Which of the following sins do NOT lead to death?

1) Murder
2) Ethnic cleasing
3) Telling a lie and other forms of deception
4) Adultery and fornication
5) Cursing one's parents
6) Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit
7) Worshiping other gods
8.) Theft and robbery
9) Covetting your friends goods
10) glutony and greed

[size=14pt]Let those who have understanding, please respond.
[/size]

Huxley, the verses (see my last post above) clearly show that John meant "there are sins that INVOLVE death in the process of carrying out the sin". It speaks here of a physical death, because when one dies physically while sinning it will be impossible to repent. Since the time Christ rose from the dead and preached to the dead, giving them a final chance, forgiveness has become a luxury only available to those with the license of physical life. After Christ rose, anyone who dies in his sin will not have another chance.

All sin lead to spiritual death. A classical sin which leads to physical death is suicide. Or maybe cursing the Holy Spirit, thus severing your possible connection to God and escaping the arms of mercy; physical death will occur quickly. Like it did with Herod in Acts. If you are in a tree & you saw off the branch you are sitting on, wont gravity break your bones?

What are the wages of sin?
I would dare to say . . . "Paying daily/weekly/monthly tithes to charlattans in the midst of scarcity"

Mavenb0x:

Huxley, the verses (see my last post above) clearly show that John meant "there are sins that INVOLVE death in the process of carrying out the sin". It speaks here of a physical death, because when one dies physically while sinning it will be impossible to repent. Since the time Christ rose from the dead and preached to the dead, giving them a final chance, forgiveness has become a luxury only available to those with the license of physical life. After Christ rose, anyone who dies in his sin will not have another chance.

All sin lead to spiritual death. A classical sin which leads to physical death is suicide. Or maybe cursing the Holy Spirit, thus severing your possible connection to God and escaping the arms of mercy; physical death will occur quickly. Like it did with Herod in Acts. If you are in a tree & you saw off the branch you are sitting on, wont gravity break your bones?

Hello,  thanks for your response.  But I seem to be getting confused about the various types of "deaths" mentioned in 1 John 5: 16 - 17.  Is he always talking about physical bodily death, or does he also refer to "spiritual" death?  Let's look at the verses again:

16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.


In verse 16, the first use of the word "death" - does this mean an immediate physical death as in the act of sinning, or immediately after sinning?  So if you see your brother/sister fornicating, theiving, lying, from which they do not die, you should pray and god will give them "life".  Is this physical life or is it spiritual life? Why would John refer to physical death and spiritual life in the same context?  It would make more sense if this "death" is a spritual death, from which prayers would restore spiritual "life".  Or similarly, if John meant physical "death", it would make more sense if the "life" was a physical "life", rather than a spiritual "life".

Now, consider the following scenario.  Supposing one of these brothers were involved in some form of armed robbery and they were shot and seriously injured.  If he prays and repent, would God give him life?

It makes more sense if this death is interpreted as as spiritual death in verses 16 & 17, as the concept of sin does not normally immediately put the health and life of the sinner at physical risk.    Apart from suicide, which you mention (and which I don't regard as a sin or offense, for many other reasons), can you think of any sins that immediately threaten the physical life of the sinner and from which they could die?  If this were so, there would be nobody on earth right now.

What is/are the sin(s) that lead to death?, as John declares in verse 16.  If John meant physical death and taking suicide as an example of such a sin  - then if you see your brother committing suicide, there is really no need for him to pray as he will be dead anyway.  So if this really was meant as physical death, then the entirety of verses 16 & 17 is hardly worth mentioning.  It is a bit like saying "Do not give food to the dead".   It only become worthy of mention if death is meant in a spritual sense in verses 16&17.

On the question of blasphemy - I have blasphemed against the Holy Spirit many many times, and I right now CURSE the Holy spirit.  What kind of death shall I expect?  And will it be immediate?

For the sake of your blasphemy, I now understand that you are not in search of the truth, and my discussion will be a waste of my precious time. But for posterity, I will reply the post above.

When one reads the KJV without a concordance, one can almost give any meaning to any word. If you are too lazy to use one, read the Amplified version i posted and see v16 where the death is described as the extinguishing of life. The life that God will give when you pray for the sinning brother, is a merciful extension of his lifespan to give him an opportunity to come back to himself. Without such an extension he would die in his sin and then he would be damned. So you think its spiritual life? Thats heavy ignorance between your ears, because Salvation is each man's personal decision. When Huxley sins, Olaadegbu can at best pray for mercy and more time for Huxley to come back to God. Thats the secondary dimension of forgiveness. The primary dimension, you must use your own mouth and heart. Olaadegbu cannot confess Huxley's sins and obtain eternal life on his behalf.

As for when you will die, Im not God's Voltron, running to defend him. Neither am I His timekeeper. Your surmise only irritates me. But just like i know a man forcibly held underwater may only survive for so long without oxygen and death is sure unless he can rise for air, I know death is inevitably at your window already, forcing its way in. God's mercies are endless, who knows, a miracle may yet save you.

Backup / Replay:

AMPLIFIED:
1Jn 5:16  If anyone sees his brother [believer] committing a sin that does not [lead to] death (the extinguishing of life), he will pray and [God] will give him life [yes, He will grant life to all those whose sin is not one leading to death]. There is a sin [that leads] to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
1Jn 5:17  All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin which does not [involve] death [that may be repented of and forgiven].
1Jn 5:18  We know [absolutely] that anyone born of God does not [deliberately and knowingly] practice committing sin, but the One Who was begotten of God carefully watches over and protects him [Christ's divine presence within him preserves him against the evil], and the wicked one does not lay hold (get a grip) on him or touch [him].

THE MESSAGE:
1Jn 5:16  For instance, if we see a Christian believer sinning (clearly I'm not talking about those who make a practice of sin in a way that is "fatal," leading to eternal death), we ask for God's help and he gladly gives it, gives life to the sinner whose sin is not fatal. There is such a thing as a fatal sin, and I'm not urging you to pray about that.
[size=18pt]1Jn 5:17  Everything we do wrong is sin, but not all sin is fatal. [/size]
1Jn 5:18  We know that none of the God-begotten makes a practice of sin--fatal sin. The God-begotten are also the God-protected. The Evil One can't lay a hand on them.

The AMPLIFIED clearly states that the death is an extinguishing of life, and The MESSAGE shows also that the death is fatal -- thus causing eternal death (as I explained earlier, when fatality is encountered, there will not be any chance to repent, making eternal death automatic. If fatality is not yet encountered, then one may repent and avoid eternal death).

Let me repeat v17 in the MESSAGE

[size=18pt]1Jn 5:17  Everything we do wrong is sin, but not all sin is fatal.[/size]

and I just read verse 18 again, I believe it is the key to it all: when one makes a HABIT of sinning, then it becomes an unconscious thing and if one dies at any instantaneous time, s/he will almost certainly die in sin: THAT is the fatality described. So if you see one who constantly commits a sin and it has become a part of them, it will almost certainly lead to fatality sooner or later. Death will ensue. You may ask Abacha