kabasa77:




Don't be silly Mr... You are the ones who are idol worshippers, worshiping the Queen of Heaven, where in your Bible was your Mary crowned the Queen of Heaven, and what of your silly immaculate birth of Mary?

The Bible have said it, we have only one mediator and intercessor, Jesus, you can pray for your brother here on earth, but you don't pray to those already in heaven to help you, when Jesus is there.. Continue in your folly

Haha! The heretic who said Christians cant pray for others sins to be forgiven is now trying to avoid his own heresy.

He'll rather divert to other accusations than accept what the Bible says on praying for sins of others.

1John5:16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

John20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

kabasa77:



I have answered you time without number. You are just being annoying.. Christains here on EARTH can pray for a fellow Christian to God forgiveness, as stated in the passages you quoted, but it is entirely wrong when you pray to Saints in Heaven to pray on your behalf when the Bible is clear that that's the sole duty of Jesus as our one and only mediator who is sitted at the right hand of the father making intercessions for us.. How is that so hard for you to assimilate and comprehend?

again you didn't answer the question.. how did the Elder's in heaven get the prayers they were offering.. don't go around it on blame it on comprehension...

let me help you with fill in the gap..

The elders IN HEAVEN got the prayers they were offering to God by........................................

kabasa77:



I have answered you time without number. You are just being annoying.. Christains here on EARTH can pray for a fellow Christian to God forgiveness, as stated in the passages you quoted, but it is entirely wrong when you pray to Saints in Heaven to pray on your behalf when the Bible is clear that that's the sole duty of Jesus as our one and only mediator who is sitted at the right hand of the father making intercessions for us.. How is that so hard for you to assimilate and comprehend?

Wait...first things first...

Are you finally admitting that you were wrong when you said only Jesus can pray for our forgiveness?

kabasa77:



I have answered you time without number. You are just being annoying.. Christains here on EARTH can pray for a fellow Christian to God forgiveness, as stated in the passages you quoted, but it is entirely wrong when you pray to Saints in Heaven to pray on your behalf when the Bible is clear that that's the sole duty of Jesus as our one and only mediator who is sitted at the right hand of the father making intercessions for us.. How is that so hard for you to assimilate and comprehend?

But martyrs like Peter, Andrew etc in heaven are praying to Jesus concerning things on earth Rev 6:9.

Hehe! Maybe this you reasoning was also hard for John who wrote Revelation to comprehend.

easymancfc:


again you didn't answer the question.. how did the Elder's in heaven get the prayers they were offering.. don't go around it on blame it on comprehension...

let me help you with fill in the gap..

The elders IN HEAVEN got the prayers they were offering to God by........................................

Stop jumping into assumptions, the Bible was not clear on how the got the prayers, but then never said the elders were intercessors so you have no point here.. The bible only said the had bowls containing the prayers of Saints. The Bible is not clear about alot of things

kabasa77:


Stop jumping into assumptions, the Bible was not clear on how the got the prayers, but then never said the elders were intercessors so you have no point here.. The bible only said the had bowls containing the prayers of Saints. The Bible is not clear about alot of things

what does offering prayers to God on behalf of someone means... it is INTERCESSION
the only way they could get those prayers, is if they are directed towards them... unless YOU THINK THEY CAN INTERCEPT PRAYERS DIRECTED TOWARDS GOD..

kabasa77:


Stop jumping into assumptions, the Bible was not clear on how the got the prayers, but then never said the elders were intercessors so you have no point here.. The bible only said the had bowls containing the prayers of Saints. The Bible is not clear about alot of things

In addition to what easymancfc said, let me just educate you a little.

When I pray for you, I am mediating between you (man) and God. When Mary prays for me, she is mediating between man and God. Are we diminishing Jesus' mediation? No. We are sharing in it.

Also, Scripture tells us that we have only one foundation, Jesus Christ (1 Cor 3:11); but, Scripture tells us that there is more than one foundation (Eph 2:19-20). Scripture tells us that we have only one Lord, Jesus Christ (Eph 4:4-5); but, Scripture tells us there is more than one lord (Rev 19:16). Scripture tells us that we have only one Judge, Jesus Christ (James 4:12); but, Scripture tells us there is more than one judge (1 Cor 6:2).

I just wanted to push you until you start spilling heresy before teach you this little biblical principle.

And kabasa77, you are still ashamed to tell me whether you have finally admitted that you were wrong when you said Christians cant pray for God to forgive others' sins?

easymancfc:


no you have not.... I ask again, how did the Elders in heaven with the angels get the prayers they are offering to God if Jesus is the only one to offer prayers to God on heaven...

and from your earlier comments you believe Mary and the apostles should be in heaven so by that statement you disagree with splinz heretical soul sleep view that the dead is Christ are unconscious in the grave

Don't mind them. They are confused set of people who don't know that they don't know the scriptures

LogicStatement:

Don't mind them. They are confused set of people who don't know that they don't know the scriptures

I don't think those two guys will return to this thread with the truth revealing missiles they have received.

Religious pride won't let them accept the truth.

They hate being educated by catholics.

jnrbayano:


I don't think those two guys will return to this thread with the truth revealing missiles they have received.

Religious pride won't let them accept the truth.

They hate being educated by catholics.

Oh please... Educated my foot

kabasa77:


Oh please... Educated my foot

LOL.. Religious pride... We have told you what we really believe, if you don't agree then that's your problem.. it's been the truth since the early church, Christians who suffered persecution in Rome and other places also asked the Saints and the faithful departed for their prayers... just google the catacombs

like I have said earlier.. you are not our judge.. let God who sees our hearts and knows that we worship him only judge us

kabasa77:


Oh please... Educated my foot

It's a way of consoling their selves.

Splinz,
Brother although I don't agree with your delivery at times (which i think you know), you still are a powerhouse.
Especially over on that other thread.
Be encouraged....cause you are correct.

MZLady39:
Splinz,
Brother although I don't agree with your delivery at times (which i think you know), you still are a powerhouse.
Especially over on that other thread.
Be encouraged....cause you are correct.

Thank you big sis. You see, you don't need to agree with me at all, but only agree with the Word! If at anytime you feel that my submissions is out of syn, please draw my attention to it, and we will see if indeed something is wrong.

Thanks for your words of encouragement.

whenever the Catholic argues from scripture, you say he or she is twisting scripture just because you don't agree with it.. yet you believe that everyone has the right to read and interpret scripture for themselves.. EXCEPT FOR THE CATHOLICS..

Finally.. the fact that a person from your camp says you are correct doesn't make you correct... because you are not the ultimate authority on truth... neither is she... you say the word is... but we presented our arguments from the WORD and you say we twisted it.. that only means that YOU DECIDE WHICH "WORD" IS TRUE MAKING YOU THE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY...

QUESTION IS WHO GAVE YOU THAT AUTHORITY??

Splinz:


Thank you big sis. You see, you don't need to agree with me at all, but only agree with the Word! If at anytime you feel that my submissions is out of syn, please draw my attention to it, and we will see if indeed something is wrong.

Thanks for your words of encouragement.

No problem baby brother! I love encouraging folks....especially when I see they are correct.
What I meant by "delivery" was how you can "cut folks" with your tongue....not "what" you say....but "how" you say it. You remember from way back in February (with your "brothers"...
You know my brother that if I disagree with you, I'll tell you.
But let me get off these nice brothers' conversations.

Sorry brother for the slight derailment.
CC: LogicStatement

MZLady39:



No problem baby brother! I love encouraging folks....especially when I see they are correct.
What I meant by "delivery" was how you can "cut folks" with your tongue....not "what" you say....but "how" you say it. You remember from way back in February (with your "brothers"...
You know my brother that if I disagree with you, I'll tell you.
But let me get off these nice brothers' conversations.

Sorry brother for the slight derailment.
CC: LogicStatement

So there are cases where you disagree with him.. in those cases is he still correct? or are you correct?
because in this case since he agrees with you he is "CORRECT". If he is not correct when he doesn't agree with you that makes you The Authority who decides what is "CORRECT"..
QUESTION AGAIN IS... WHO GAVE YOU THAT AUTHORITY

MZLady39:
Splinz,
Brother although I don't agree with your delivery at times (which i think you know), you still are a powerhouse.
Especially over on that other thread.
Be encouraged....cause you are correct.

Do you also think the bold below is correct?

Splinz:


There's a difference between praying for God's forgiveness and one sinner sitting in a corner calling for confessions that sins may be forgiven.

A sinner forgiving sins? What heresy! Indeed, Babylon the great.

italo:


Do you also think the bold below is correct?

Hi my brother....
Give me a minute.
I'm coming soon to answer.

easymancfc:


So there are cases where you disagree with him.. in those cases is he still correct? or are you correct?
because in this case since he agrees with you he is "CORRECT". If he is not correct when he doesn't agree with you that makes you The Authority who decides what is "CORRECT"..
QUESTION AGAIN IS... WHO GAVE YOU THAT AUTHORITY

Brother,
I was trying to gracefully move out of this thread...but you just won't allow that now will you?
I am not from his camp. I don't know what his camp is. So many little cliques in the Religion S..
I do know that he has used scripture correctly for a lot of his discussions and I was acknowledging that. He may hold some of my beliefs also. He & I have never discussed our denominations. It was all the Word.
I have not agreed with him on 1 item (and he knows what that is)...and I haven't studied that item...so I'm not sure who's correct.
You are correct. I am NOT the authority...
God's Word is....led by the Holy Spirit into all knowledge and wisdom.
The problem lies in all of these multiple interpretations...
Now I'm 100 % sure God never intended for all this confusion. So now....someone's right & someone's wrong. We all need to know truth & follow it & be on one accord.
Now I'm gonna encourage him....and when/if there's a disagreement on some particular point, then we (like adults) can discuss it and hopefully come to an agreement

[quote author=italo post=56420215]

Do you also think the bold below is correct?

[/quote

I think what he was saying is that no man has the ultimate authority to forgive another person's deep, dark sins....meaning "confession" & cleanse them from all unrighteousness.
That ability is only given to Christ.
Now dealing with people offending or hurting people and regularly asking folks to forgive you for the offense is a totally different thing.

MZLady39:


Brother,
I was trying to gracefully move out of this thread...but you just won't allow that now will you?
I am not from his camp. I don't know what his camp is. So many little cliques in the Religion S..
I do know that he has used scripture correctly for a lot of his discussions and I was acknowledging that. He may hold some of my beliefs also. He & I have never discussed our denominations. It was all the Word.
I have not agreed with him on 1 item (and he knows what that is)...and I haven't studied that item...so I'm not sure who's correct.
You are correct. I am NOT the authority...
God's Word is....led by the Holy Spirit into all knowledge and wisdom.
The problem lies in all of these multiple interpretations...
Now I'm 100 % sure God never intended for all this confusion. So now....someone's right & someone's wrong. We all need to know truth & follow it & be on one accord.
Now I'm gonna encourage him....and when/if there's a disagreement on some particular point, then we (like adults) can discuss it and hopefully come to an agreement

You said he used scripture correctly and I assume by that statement that we didn't.. who gave you that authority to say who uses scripture correctly.. Since according to general protestants/pentecostals everyone has the right to read scripture and be directed by the Holy Spirit..

easymancfc:


You said he used scripture correctly and I assume by that statement that we didn't.. who gave you that authority to say who uses scripture correctly.. Since according to general protestants/pentecostals everyone has the right to read scripture and be directed by the Holy Spirit..

My brother,
I understand what you are saying.
However, all ways aren't right...which has caused all this confusion. It was never supposed to be like this.
The only way I know is to sincerely pray for the Holy Spirit to reveal all truth...and He will. I have attended many different denominations (including the Catholic church) and they all have some doctrine correct.
All I know is that Christ will have a church in these last days...that will be on one accord.

What splinz said was that the book of revelation is all symbolic so it doesn't mean what we say it does.. and you say he is correct because he used scripture correctly and we apparently did not...

here are some questions from that
1.. Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; 10 they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

ARE THESE SOULS SYMBOLIC SOULS, WHERE THEY SYMBOLICALLY KILLED, ARE THEY CRYING FOR A SYMBOLIC VENGEANCE, WERE THEIR PERSECUTORS SYMBOLICALLY ON EARTH...

2... rev 5: 8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden BOWLS FULL of INCENSE, WHICH ARE THE PRAYERS of the SAINTS;

I AND ANY OTHER REASONABLE PERSON WOULD SAY THAT THE SYMBOLIC INCENSE HAS BEEN CLARIFIED TO MEAN PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS...

IF YOU THINK THERE'S STILL SYMBOLISM THERE THEN TELL US WHICH...

3... Rev 4:8 And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all round and within, and day and night they never cease to sing,

“holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty,
who was and is and is to come!”

ARE THE ANGELIC BEINGS SYMBOLIC? IS THE HOLY HOLY HOLY THEY ARE SAYING SYMBOLIC..

if you still think he is correct, then there's nothing more I can say to you

MZLady39:


My brother,
I understand what you are saying.
However, all ways aren't right...which has caused all this confusion. It was never supposed to be like this.
The only way I know is to sincerely pray for the Holy Spirit to reveal all truth...and He will. I have attended many different denominations (including the Catholic church) and they all have some doctrine correct.
All I know is that Christ will have a church in these last days...that will be on one accord.

I agree with you on your first points.. But the Bible itself gives credence to the church... As the pillar and bulwark of truth

1 Tim 3:15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, WHICH is the CHURCH of the living God, the PILLAR and BULWARK of the TRUTH.

and when John said about the authority of the apostles as teachers, who founded the church and by that the Church itself in

1 john 4:6We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Jesus himself says to his disciples

Luke 10:16 “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

I KNOW YOU DON'T THINK THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS RIGHT.. BUT GO TO THOSE WHO LEARNED FROM THE APOSTLES DIRECTLY, THEY COULD NOT HAVE LEARNED ERRORS AND TAUGHT ERRORS.. READ THE EARLY CHURCH WRITINGS.. IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH WAS A STUDENT OF JOHN, CLEMENT OF ROME WAS MENTIONED AS A COWORKER BY PAUL (Phil 4:3), READ THEIR WORKS AND COMPARE THEIR BELIEFS WITH WHAT YOU HAVE TODAY AND SEE WHO HAS THE CONTINUITY

JOHN IN THE VERSE I JUST PRESENTED SAYS US..

easymancfc:
What splinz said was that the book of revelation is all symbolic so it doesn't mean what we say it does.. and you say he is correct because he used scripture correctly and we apparently did not...

here are some questions from that
1.. Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; 10 they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

ARE THESE SOULS SYMBOLIC SOULS, WHERE THEY SYMBOLICALLY KILLED, ARE THEY CRYING FOR A SYMBOLIC VENGEANCE, WERE THEIR PERSECUTORS SYMBOLICALLY ON EARTH...

2... rev 5: 8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden BOWLS FULL of INCENSE, WHICH ARE THE PRAYERS of the SAINTS;

I AND ANY OTHER REASONABLE PERSON WOULD SAY THAT THE SYMBOLIC INCENSE HAS BEEN CLARIFIED TO MEAN PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS...

IF YOU THINK THERE'S STILL SYMBOLISM THERE THEN TELL US WHICH...

3... Rev 4:8 And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all round and within, and day and night they never cease to sing,

“holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty,
who was and is and is to come!”

ARE THE ANGELIC BEINGS SYMBOLIC? IS THE HOLY HOLY HOLY THEY ARE SAYING SYMBOLIC..

if you still think he is correct, then there's nothing more I can say to you

Well brother,
We aren't gonna debate. That's not my style.
Did he say "all" or some? See I can't speak on what I haven't read from him. I'm speaking on what I have read....a little from this thread and much more from him on other threads.
He was probably saying that there is lots of symbolism throughout the Book of Revelation...and he is right.
What you did however, was pick 2-3 scriptures, which I'm very familiar with, that actually have a literal meaning.
Those particular souls were real martyrs...people who died for their allegiance to Christ. Now the actual "soul" itself wasn't crying out cause the "dead know nothing" 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Ecclesiastes 9:5...& more scriptures.
However, God was saying that He hasn't forgotten those of His children who were viciously slain for His sake.
And there will be a group in these last days that will also meet the same death.
I've got some info on decoding the Book of Revelation...if you're willing to read it.
I would have to get it for you much later today...but I can do it...only if you want it though.

easymancfc:


I agree with you on your first points.. But the Bible itself gives credence to the church... As the pillar and bulwark of truth

1 Tim 3:15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, WHICH is the CHURCH of the living God, the PILLAR and BULWARK of the TRUTH.

and when John said about the authority of the apostles as teachers, who founded the church and by that the Church itself in

1 john 4:6We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Jesus himself says to his disciples

Luke 10:16 “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

I KNOW YOU DON'T THINK THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS RIGHT.. BUT GO TO THOSE WHO LEARNED FROM THE APOSTLES DIRECTLY, THEY COULD NOT HAVE LEARNED ERRORS AND TAUGHT ERRORS.. READ THE EARLY CHURCH WRITINGS.. IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH WAS A STUDENT OF JOHN, CLEMENT OF ROME WAS MENTIONED AS A COWORKER BY PAUL (Phil 4:3), READ THEIR WORKS AND COMPARE THEIR BELIEFS WITH WHAT YOU HAVE TODAY AND SEE WHO HAS THE CONTINUITY

JOHN IN THE VERSE I JUST PRESENTED SAYS US..

Brother,
I'm not against the Catholic Church...some of my family members are members.
Some of its teachings, however, go directly against the teaching of God's Word.
We just want to study the Word and see how we need to line up our lives with it...that's all.
I have no authority or superiority over you or anyone else.
But if we are in error, then we need to know how to correct it

MZLady39:


Well brother,
We aren't gonna debate. That's not my style.
Did he say "all" or some? See I can't speak on what I haven't read from him. I'm speaking on what I have read....a little from this thread and much more from him on other threads.
He was probably saying that there is lots of symbolism throughout the Book of Revelation...and he is right.
What you did however, was pick 2-3 scriptures, which I'm very familiar with, that actually have a literal meaning.
Those particular souls were real martyrs...people who died for their allegiance to Christ. Now the actual "soul" itself wasn't crying out cause the "dead know nothing" 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Ecclesiastes 9:5...& more scriptures.
However, God was saying that He hasn't forgotten those of His children who were viciously slain for His sake.
And there will be a group in these last days that will also meet the same death.
I've got some info on decoding the Book of Revelation...if you're willing to read it.
I would have to get it for you much later today...but I can do it...only if you want it though.

the talk on soul sleep has been discoursed already... Hebrews 12:1, 24, 1 Peter 3:21, The mountain of transfiguration, even the verses of revelation point to the activity and consciousness of souls even though the body is dead in the grave...

and REV 6:9 IS NOT A MONOLOGUE BETWEEN GOD AND HIMSELF... IT CLEARLY IS A DIALOGUE... THE SOULS CRY AND GOD COMFORTS THEM... SO YOUR POINTS ARE INSUFFICIENT..

I HAVE commentaries on revelation too I would take yours if you would take mine...
the problem is authority... the person who wrote your "decoding" revelation, what authority does he or she have? mine comes from a compilation of over 1500 years of theological opinions and compilations of the early church and the church through the ages...

MZLady39:



Brother,
I'm not against the Catholic Church...some of my family members are members.
Some of its teachings, however, go directly against the teaching of God's Word.
We just want to study the Word and see how we need to line up our lives with it...that's all.
I have no authority or superiority over you or anyone else.
But if we are in error, then we need to know how to correct it

No Catholic doctrine directly goes against scripture if you understand it properly..
alot of people don't know that there is a difference between a doctrine, a Tradition and a tradition...
if you read what the Catholic Church actually means...
An example is we say we don't worship idols.. people like Splinz say we do.. and he forces it on us...
like I said to him... let God who sees our hearts judge us.. if we all judge people by what we see or what we think they do. everyone will be condemned..

easymancfc:


the talk on soul sleep has been discoursed already... Hebrews 12:1, 24, 1 Peter 3:21, The mountain of transfiguration, even the verses of revelation point to the activity and consciousness of souls even though the body is dead in the grave...

and REV 6:9 IS NOT A MONOLOGUE BETWEEN GOD AND HIMSELF... IT CLEARLY IS A DIALOGUE... THE SOULS CRY AND GOD COMFORTS THEM... SO YOUR POINTS ARE INSUFFICIENT..

I HAVE commentaries on revelation too I would take yours if you would take mine...
the problem is authority... the person who wrote your "decoding" revelation, what authority does he or she have? mine comes from a compilation of over 2500 years of theological opinions and compilations of the early church and the church through the ages...

Brother,
The gospel is simplistic. The Holy Spirit reveals through His word.
Yes...I will gladly take yours first....not gonna read tons of pages though. I can't lie like that.
I have to leave now. Will be back sometime in the late evening...Nigeria's time....
Take care

MZLady39:


Brother,
The gospel is simplistic. The Holy Spirit reveals through His word.
Yes...I will gladly take yours first....not gonna read tons of pages though. I can't lie like that.
I have to leave now. Will be back sometime in the late evening...Nigeria's time....
Take care

You too