Haroun13:

Absolutely.


Countless reasons.
For a book to be the word of God, it must satisfy some criteria, of which are;
*It must not attribute to God, anything against his nature.
*It should not attribute to any created being, anything which pertains only to God.
*No part should contradict another.
By these standards, only the Quran is fitting.
These are some of the very few reasons, sir.


The Qur'an is the pure word of God, nothing less. The hadith is the teachings of the prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him).
Also, it tells us when, where and under what circumstances the verses of the Quran were revealed, such that with this information, one will not apply for example, a verse revealed in a time of war, in conditions of peace.
So, in Islam, the word of God is kept pure, and separate from words of the prophet (peace be upon him), or other persons.

So how do you explain John 14:16
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Haroun13:

Absolutely.


Countless reasons.
For a book to be the word of God, it must satisfy some criteria, of which are;
*It must not attribute to God, anything against his nature.
*It should not attribute to any created being, anything which pertains only to God.
*No part should contradict another.
By these standards, only the Quran is fitting.
These are some of the very few reasons, sir.


The Qur'an is the pure word of God, nothing less. The hadith is the teachings of the prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him).
Also, it tells us when, where and under what circumstances the verses of the Quran were revealed, such that with this information, one will not apply for example, a verse revealed in a time of war, in conditions of peace.
So, in Islam, the word of God is kept pure, and separate from words of the prophet (peace be upon him), or other persons.

So how do you explain John 14:16
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
And how do you explain abrogations in the Koran?

analice107:

The koran is complete? What about the part eaten by a goat?

Aisha's goat ate part of the koran and you lie here saying the koran is complete.

Thank you for this question, but I hope you are here to learn.
You are talking about the narration where it was said that a sheep ate a piece of leaf on which a verse of the Quran was written.

Let's look at the problem with this narration;
Something similar was narrated by Yahya ibn Sa'eed Al Ansaari and Imam Maalik (may Allah be pleased with them), but these narrations never mentioned anything of a sheep eating anything.
But the only narration which contains that is the narration of Muhammad ibn Ishaq.

An odd hadith is one in which a trustworthy narrator differed with that which was narrated by other trustworthy narrators who were more accurate than him in the narration or were greater in number. This is a sound academic principle, because how can one narrator have additional wording in a hadith that others also narrated from the original narrators, when the latter are greater in number, more accurate in memory and narration, and of higher status in knowledge of hadith? Why didn’t they also narrate this additional or different material?

Also, Muhammad ibn Ishaq has been criticized by many scholars of hadith. Here's some wordings of some hadeeth scholars;
Hanbal ibn Ishaaq said: I heard Abu ‘Abdullah say: The narration of Ibn Ishaaq cannot be used as proof.

‘Abdullah ibn Ahmad said: He – i.e., Ahmad ibn Hanbal – did not use his reports as evidence when discussing what is Sunnah.

Ayyoob ibn Ishaaq said: I asked Ahmad ibn Hanbal: O Abu ‘Abdullah, if Ibn Ishaaq is the only narrator of the hadith, will you accept it? He said: No, by Allah, for I have seen him putting together the words of many narrators in a single hadith, and not separating the narration of one person from that of another.

So you can already see that Ibn Ishaq's hadith are questionable.

Also, the narration no way questions the Qur'an's infallibility because when a verse was revealed it was memorized, such that if a goat had eaten a verse of the Quran there would certainly had been other copies, because it was already know by heart.
So, if you are truthful, you would see that the Qur'an is complete and preserved, perfectly, as Allah has said in the Qur'an, concerning it's preservation.

And Allah knows best.
Salaam.

ilynem:

So how do you explain John 14:16
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This is a simple statement. During the time of Jesus (peace be upon him) he was the above.
Now, you tell me I'm wrong. Before Jesus (peace be upon him) was Moses (peace be upon him), right or wrong? Moses commanded the people to pray as he did, fast, or whatever God commanded, right or wrong? Whoever obeyed, was on the right path, to God, and whoever disobeyed, strayed from truth, right or wrong?
So, with the above, it can be said that Moses (peace be upon him) in his time was also the way, truth and life, and no one went to God except through him). But now, it is the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him), and if you do not believe in his teachings, you have also strayed from the path. This is simple and has nothing to do with divinity.
Please, let's be reasonable.

And how do you explain abrogations in the Koran?

This is simple. When God sends down a new ruling concerning a matter, such that it overrides the previous one, you have an abrogation.
For example, God prohibited drinking of alcohol in steps.
First, He allowed it, but commanded the Muslims that when they were drunk, they should abstain from prayer.
Later, God disallowed it totally by revealing another verse, commanding total abstainance from taking alcohol, hence, the second verse abrogated the first.

Haroun13:

This is a simple statement. During the time of Jesus (peace be upon him) he was the above.
Now, you tell me I'm wrong. Before Jesus (peace be upon him) was Moses (peace be upon him), right or wrong? Moses commanded the people to pray as he did, fast, or whatever God commanded, right or wrong? Whoever obeyed, was on the right path, to God, and whoever disobeyed, strayed from truth, right or wrong?
So, with the above, it can be said that Moses (peace be upon him) in his time was also the way, truth and life, and no one went to God except through him). But now, it is the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him), and if you do not believe in his teachings, you have also strayed from the path. This is simple and has nothing to do with divinity.
Please, let's be reasonable.


This is simple. When God sends down a new ruling concerning a matter, such that it overrides the previous one, you have an abrogation.
For example, God prohibited drinking of alcohol in steps.
First, He allowed it, but commanded the Muslims that when they were drunk, they should abstain from prayer.
Later, God disallowed it totally by revealing another verse, commanding total abstainance from taking alcohol, hence, the second verse abrogated the first.

You are so wrong on many levels. Moses never accepted worship, Jesus did (Matthew 14:33). Moses never forgave sins, Jesus did (Luke 7:48) up to the point that even the teachers in the synagogue saw it as blasphemy. If it was a normal thing to do, they wouldn't see it that way. Jesus said in John 8:58 - Before Abraham was, I AM. What did God call himself when he revealed himself to Moses?
Matthew 28:19 is an instruction from Jesus telling us to preach the word and Baptise all in THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.
Moses never called himself the way, the truth and the Life. Jesus did.
Finally Jesus called Himself the Son of Man that was revealed in Daniel 7:13, and said he will seat at the right hand of God like was written in Psalm 110:1.
In John 10:33 after Jesus said He and the father are one, the Jews accused Him of making himself equal with God. Note that Jesus never denied it.
I could give you more verses but I am late to church
Finally on abrogation. Are you saying God changes His mind on laws?

Haroun13:

Thank you for this question, but I hope you are here to learn.
You are talking about the narration where it was said that a sheep ate a piece of leaf on which a verse of the Quran was written.

Let's look at the problem with this narration;
Something similar was narrated by Yahya ibn Sa'eed Al Ansaari and Imam Maalik (may Allah be pleased with them), but these narrations never mentioned anything of a sheep eating anything.
But the only narration which contains that is the narration of Muhammad ibn Ishaq.

An odd hadith is one in which a trustworthy narrator differed with that which was narrated by other trustworthy narrators who were more accurate than him in the narration or were greater in number. This is a sound academic principle, because how can one narrator have additional wording in a hadith that others also narrated from the original narrators, when the latter are greater in number, more accurate in memory and narration, and of higher status in knowledge of hadith? Why didn’t they also narrate this additional or different material?

Also, Muhammad ibn Ishaq has been criticized by many scholars of hadith. Here's some wordings of some hadeeth scholars;
Hanbal ibn Ishaaq said: I heard Abu ‘Abdullah say: The narration of Ibn Ishaaq cannot be used as proof.

‘Abdullah ibn Ahmad said: He – i.e., Ahmad ibn Hanbal – did not use his reports as evidence when discussing what is Sunnah.

Ayyoob ibn Ishaaq said: I asked Ahmad ibn Hanbal: O Abu ‘Abdullah, if Ibn Ishaaq is the only narrator of the hadith, will you accept it? He said: No, by Allah, for I have seen him putting together the words of many narrators in a single hadith, and not separating the narration of one person from that of another.

So you can already see that Ibn Ishaq's hadith are questionable.

Also, the narration no way questions the Qur'an's infallibility because when a verse was revealed it was memorized, such that if a goat had eaten a verse of the Quran there would certainly had been other copies, because it was already know by heart.
So, if you are truthful, you would see that the Qur'an is complete and preserved, perfectly, as Allah has said in the Qur'an, concerning it's preservation.

And Allah knows best.
Salaam.

First off, it was Aisha who narrated how her sheep ate the koran under her pillow as they were running around trying to help Muhammed after he ate poison.

Here is the narration;

Book 008, Number 3424:
' A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man. 'Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn 'Umar (the words are): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed.


Secondly. As a word gets revealed by allah to jibril to muhammed to whoever else who memorizes it, you stand so solidly to declare that the koran is accurate?

Listen Muslim, i don't care so long as you practice your Islam leaving the Bible out of it.
Oh wait!!!!!, without the Bible, Islam will be dead.

Ask yourself this, Why don't Christians or Jews at least once quote from the accurate and complete koran just for once to buttress their points?

Why always muslims?

Get your accurate and complete koran and get lost.

analice107:

First off, it was Aisha who narrated how her sheep ate the koran under her pillow as they were running around trying to help Muhammed after he ate poison.

Here is the narration;

Book 008, Number 3424:
' A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man. 'Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn 'Umar (the words are): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed.


Secondly. As a word gets revealed by allah to jibril to muhammed to whoever else who memorizes it, you stand so solidly to declare that the koran is accurate?

Listen Muslim, i don't care so long as you practice your Islam leaving the Bible out of it.
Oh wait!!!!!, without the Bible, Islam will be dead.

Ask yourself this, Why don't Christians or Jews at least once quote from the accurate and complete koran just for once to buttress their points?

Why always muslims?

Get your accurate and complete koran and get lost.

Girl, you are Fire!

ilynem:
Girl, you are Fire!

Lol. One needs to be, these muslims shd leave us alone.

I do not have the energy to even you a befitting reppy now. The bottom line is Jesus neither killed nor ask anyone ti kill in his name. Anyone doing so is on their own and those people who kill do not do so in the name of Jesus.

Continue in your delusions if you so please.

Haroun13:

OK.


Then I guess it's also not hast generalization to say Christians are biased, and full of bigotry towards Islam.


Ya. Just like your Christian brothers in the Kkk, Lords resistance army, Army of God, etc are doing theirs.


OK.


Oh! People supporting boko haram "openly"? Well, I'm not your government, who should be sanctioning such behaviour. But this is just another baseless claim, because I haven't come across anyone openly supporting boko haram. Besides, if your mind was not filled with hatred and bias towards Islam, you would see that the so-called boko haram also kill Muslims, in fact, majority of Northerners are Muslims, so, if the bombings are taking place in the north, who gets hurt more?, who gets killed more?
Obviously, it's the Muslims. Please, let's be reasonable.

ilynem:

You are so wrong on many levels. Moses never accepted worship, Jesus did (Matthew 14:33). Moses never forgave sins, Jesus did (Luke 7:48) up to the point that even the teachers in the synagogue saw it as blasphemy. If it was a normal thing to do, they wouldn't see it that way.

Quote in full.

Jesus said in John 8:58 - Before Abraham was, I AM.

The "I am" used here is ego eimi, which can be used as in "I am a boy", no big deal. The "I am" you are using to refer to God is ho own (this spelling is not accurate, but the pronunciation is). You can do your research. So, on that basis, you haven't established your claim.

What did God call himself when he revealed himself to Moses?

In the Qur'an, God never revealed Himself to Moses, so, there was no such encounter.

Matthew 28:19 is an instruction from Jesus telling us to preach the word and Baptise all in THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.

If you refer to Jesus (peace be upon him) as son of God because he was created by God, I agree. But if you say no, he is a begotten son, then I'm sorry. Also, how about you quote the verses, because I have no time to Google search them. When you quote the verses in full, then we'll see if Jesus (peace be upon him) claimed divinity.

Moses never called himself the way, the truth and the Life. Jesus did.

He needed not to. I asked you a question. During the time of Moses, who did the people follow, in order to get to God, to attain paradise?
If the answer is Moses, then your above statement also applies to him. If your answer is not Moses, then you are a liar.

Finally Jesus called Himself the Son of Man that was revealed in Daniel 7:13,

Does son of man mean "begotten" son of God?

and said he will seat at the right hand of God like was written in Psalm 110:1.

You have to quote in full, so we can differentiate between Jesus' words and the words of anonymous individuals.
Also, I hope you know there's something like a right hand man. It doesn't mean you become glued to the right side of the person you are hand to.

In John 10:33 after Jesus said He and the father are one,

Someone has quoted this one to me before. He was saying that they are one in that no one can remove the sheep from God's hand, and his hand too.
Also, they are one in that whatever Jesus preached, was from God. Doesn't mean they are one in essence. You claim he spoke in parables, yet, when you have an opportunity to manipulate the words, you take the meaning plainly. christians.

the Jews accused Him of making himself equal with God. Note that Jesus never denied it.

OK.

I could give you more verses but I am late to church
Finally on abrogation. Are you saying God changes His mind on laws?

If giving instructions in a step by step format is changing one's mind.

analice107:

First off, it was Aisha who narrated how her sheep ate the koran under her pillow as they were running around trying to help Muhammed after he ate poison.

No. Rather, the narration goes back to her, as the first in the chain. It was narrated to us by Muhammad ibn Ishaq, or at least, this version of it was.
Also, present in the chain, if you don't know, are
‘Abdullah ibn Abi Bakr ibn Hazm, from ‘Amrah bint ‘Abd ar-Rahmaan, from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her).
So, the narration passed through some people, to Ibn Ishaq, and that's how we know it.

Here is the narration;

Book 008, Number 3424:
' A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man. 'Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn 'Umar (the words are): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed.

This is not the it. As you can see, there is talk of any goat at all.

Secondly. As a word gets revealed by allah to jibril to muhammed to whoever else who memorizes it, you stand so solidly to declare that the koran is accurate?

Actually, it is God who made, makes, and will continue to make that claim;

"Surely, We have revealed the Quran, and surely, We will preserve it" 15:9

“No falsehood will come to it, in the present or in the future; a revelation from One who is Wise and Praiseworthy.” 41:42

God has established the preservation of the Quran as you can see.

Listen Muslim, i don't care so long as you practice your Islam leaving the Bible out of it.

I don't need your bible ma'am.
Why would I need it when I have the Qur'an, pure, unmixed and preserved word of God, perfect in all respects?

Oh wait!!!!!, without the Bible, Islam will be dead.

Trying to give the bible some worthiness eh mate?

Ask yourself this, Why don't Christians or Jews at least once quote from the accurate and complete koran just for once to buttress their points?

Why would a thief try to use the constitution against the one he stills from?
When you begin to quote from the Quran, you might actually see that it's nothing but the absolute truth, and only way.

Why always muslims?

Get your accurate and complete koran and get lost.

OK.

Salaam.

Amberon:
I do not have the energy to even you a befitting reppy now. The bottom line is Jesus neither killed nor ask anyone ti kill in his name. Anyone doing so is on their own and those people who kill do not do so in the name of Jesus.

Well, anyone killing in the name of Islam is also on his own.

Continue in your delusions if you so please.

OK.

Haroun13:

No. Rather, the narration goes back to her, as the first in the chain. It was narrated to us by Muhammad ibn Ishaq, or at least, this version of it was.
Also, present in the chain, if you don't know, are
‘Abdullah ibn Abi Bakr ibn Hazm, from ‘Amrah bint ‘Abd ar-Rahmaan, from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her).
So, the narration passed through some people, to Ibn Ishaq, and that's how we know it.


This is not the it. As you can see, there is talk of any goat at all.


Actually, it is God who made, makes, and will continue to make that claim;

"Surely, We have revealed the Quran, and surely, We will preserve it" 15:9

“No falsehood will come to it, in the present or in the future; a revelation from One who is Wise and Praiseworthy.” 41:42

God has established the preservation of the Quran as you can see.


I don't need your bible ma'am.
Why would I need it when I have the Qur'an, pure, unmixed and preserved word of God, perfect in all respects?


Trying to give the bible some worthiness eh mate?


Why would a thief try to use the constitution against the one he stills from?
When you begin to quote from the Quran, you might actually see that it's nothing but the absolute truth, and only way.


OK.

Salaam.

So you agree that there are different versions of what really happened? Chains of reports which changes as they declare what happened.

Allah keep saying "We", him and who?

Do you believe that allah is able to preserve the koran yet it get abrogated every now and then?

Have you ever heard that the Bible got abrogated?

You don't need my Bible? Why then do you muslims quote from it every time you want to make a point, shouldn't your koran be enough for you?

Have you ever come by a Christian trying to make a point, quoting from the koran?

We don't need you, but on the other hand, Islam cannot survive without us.

Islam steals everything from Jews and Christians.

From now henceforth, stand on your own lets see how far you.

analice107:

So you agree that there are different versions of what really happened? Chains of reports which changes as they declare what happened.

There's the authentic, and there's the fabricated/weak hadith.

Allah keep saying "We", him and who?

Plural of respect.

Do you believe that allah is able to preserve the koran yet it get abrogated every now and then?

The Qur'an is the same one now, and 1400 years ago. Abrogations can not take place anymore, as you can see. Any abrogation that took place was during the time of the prophet, as God revealed rules that overrode those that were previously on ground. Mind you, the abrogated verses of the Quran are few in number.
For example, on alcohol, it was first permissible, but the Muslims were commanded to abstain from prayer when drunk;


O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say (Surah Nisa 4:43)

And then, subsequently, the last and final step in the prohibition of alcohol

They ask you about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: In both of them there is a great sin and means of profit for men, and their sin is greater than their profit. And they ask you as to what they should spend. Say: What you can spare. Thus does Allah make clear to you the communications, that you may ponder (Qur'an 2:219)

So, as you can see, abrogation doesn't in anyway affect the preservation of the Quran.

Have you ever heard that the Bible got abrogated?

Well, it was written by men (new testament) who are anonymous, besides, you have thousands of manuscripts which all disagree with one another. You don't have abrogations but discrepancies which can never be reconciled, hence, you have different versions, all differing from one another, like the Roman catholic, KJV, and RSV, hence, it can never be the word of God.

Also, abrogations can only take place when the revelation is still coming down. As you can see, all abrogations took place during the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him).

You don't need my Bible? Why then do you muslims quote from it every time you want to make a point, shouldn't your koran be enough for you?

Look. If I quote from your bible, I'm doing it to show you that what you claim to be the word of God is not. If you are here telling me one thing from your bible, and I show you something contradicting what you told me, I'm simply establishing the fact that the word of God cannot have contradictions.

But for establishment of truth, justice and judgement of that which is right and wrong, in fact, for everything the Qur'an is indeed unrivaled.

Have you ever come by a Christian trying to make a point, quoting from the koran?

Yes. Your Christian brothers and sisters go all over the religious section of nairaland, manipulating verses of the Quran to suit their whims and desires, spewing hatred all over.

We don't need you, but on the other hand, Islam cannot survive without us.
Islam steals everything from Jews and Christians.

OK.

From now henceforth, stand on your own lets see how far you.

Salaam.

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Not when Mohammed your "best human" killed over 700 Jews for simply being non-muslims and commanded you to kill every Jew in other for judgment day to come.

Haroun13:

Well, anyone killing in the name of Islam is also on his own.


OK.

Amberon:
Not when Mohammed your "best human" killed over 700 Jews for simply being non-muslims and commanded you to kill every Jew in other for judgment day to come.

Where is your proof? You have no authentic hadith to back your claim.
What is your claim?
Muhammad killed over 700 Jews for simply being non-muslim
What is my reply?
You are a liar.
Simple and short.
If you bring your proof, I will revoke my statement. But you have no proof.