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Are Muslims And Christians Serving The Same God? / Pls I Need Some Clarifications From Biblical Scholars In The House / Genesis 6 Vs 6......christians Pls Explain. (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by ilynem(m): 1:53pm On Jun 02, 2017 |
WhoBeThisMan:The Koran is claimed to be simply the words of Allah. There are collection of books called the Hadiths. They are about the life of Muhammad. Their two trusted sources are Sahil Bukhari and Sahil Muslim. They call these ones the strong Hadiths. Then there are weak Hadiths. They call them weak because many things in them are just too plain embarrassing to even attribute it to their prophet. So they shelve these Hadiths in a corner and call them weak (meaning they can't be trusted). 4 Likes |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by WhoBeThisMan: 4:37pm On Jun 02, 2017 |
ilynem:Wow, what makes this interesting is that no Muslim has come here to counter this |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by theNOISEmaker: 5:19pm On Jun 02, 2017 |
maybe you wait after 8pm |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by Ken4Christ: 12:04am On Jun 03, 2017 |
These truths are not new revelations to the Muslims. They know but they are afraid they will be killed if they renounce Islam. But it is better to die now and enjoy eternal life than to live in falsehood and spend the rest of your life in a burning flame. I plead with all Muslim reading this, please, give your life to Jesus before it is too late. God will protect you from anyone that wants to kill you. Even if your family throws you out, God will give you a new family. 4 Likes |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by tollyboy5(m): 1:59am On Jun 03, 2017 |
Ken4Christ:EVEN JESUS IS FAKE |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by true2god: 5:58am On Jun 03, 2017 |
WhoBeThisMan:Most of the Islamic teachings are not found in the Quran but in the hadith, the sirah (by Ibn Ishaq and altabari) and the sunnah. The Quran makes up less than 10% of Islamic theology. All the hadith and the sirah albagdadi quoted are true and acceptable in mainstream Islam. However, some Muslims do reject the hadith and the sirah because it exposed the real character of Mohammed as a bloodthirsty criminal and a sexmaniac individual. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by true2god: 6:00am On Jun 03, 2017 |
hodusglobal:We have been arguing on NL since the time of prophet Moses. If you can cope with the naked truth about allahh and his apostle you can go to another topic. |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by true2god: 6:21am On Jun 03, 2017 |
WhoBeThisMan:The hadith were written by different people who lived about 200 to 300 years after the death of Mohammed. Pls note that Mohammed died of food poison he ate in a Jewish town called khaibar. The major writers are Bukhari and Muslim. This two are regarded as the most authentic and reliable hadith collectors in Islam. Other writers of hadith are Ibn Majjah, al-tirmidi and Abu dawood. Their hadith collections are also acceptable in mainstream Islam. What is hadith (though I chose to call it ha-death atimes)? Hadith is the collections of all what Mohammed said and did, not as a biography, but as a piece-by-piece testimony of different individuals who are the contemporaries of Mohammed, especially his sahabas or disciples. The hadith collectors traveled far and wide, like investigative journalist, to gather information about Mohammed, and this is what lead to what we now have as the hadith. Pls note that none of the hadith collectors saw Mohammed face to face or know him personally, they only gathered true and false information from the 5 to 7 generation of people who lived after the death of Mohammed, some of whom are descendants of the sahabas. This is why the hadith is not reliable hence the segmentation of the hadith into authentic (sahih), weak and fabricated hadith. And from my perspective, Islam is all about falsehood and fabrications, by the desert Arabs, and wrapped with Mohammed and allahh. Whatever lies the medieval Arabs tell the world, as long as it packaged and wrapped with Mohammed emblem, it must be true. Thank you. 6 Likes |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by WhoBeThisMan: 6:26am On Jun 03, 2017 |
true2god:Thanks Bro, very enlightening. I |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by Eazie351(m): 8:01am On Jun 03, 2017 |
WhoBeThisMan:Later on, yhu‘ll be screaming someone wants to derail. You just wanted some enlightening not some hulabaloo |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by WhoBeThisMan: 11:44am On Jun 03, 2017 |
Eazie351:I will appreciate your input in this topic, are you a Muslim? |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by Eazie351(m): 1:18pm On Jun 03, 2017 |
WhoBeThisMan:I‘m not but i‘m intrigued by things like this.... |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by Nobody: 3:19pm On Jun 03, 2017 |
WhoBeThisMan: maybe it makes no sense : for anybody who decided on leaving his regilion (Islam) to be killed .. besides itz a free world and you av d right to choose any religion group you want *He saw a little baby crawling and swore to marry her if he is still alive when she comes of age. (pls where and in which book did you read it from?) *He killed a Jewish woman's husband and father then converted, married and had sex with her on the same day (as in.... you can lie for Africa.. lwkmd) *He married the wife of his adopted son after seeing her unclothedness and desiring her (all u can do is to go online , gather some useless articles written by some useless folks and paste it on nairaland with no evidence nor proof on) *He married his first wife, a 40yr old widow when he was 25 (this is pointless, illiteracy dey worry you. pls tell me how is marrying someone who is older a sin or bad thing?) * He Married 11 wives and use to sleep with them all in one night (slept with his 11 wives in a single night , ash oga use ur brain nah) *Says a woman's testimony is worth half of a man's testimony (av no point on that thou) *Says 3 things spoil prayers - a donkey, a black dog and a woman *Prescribed beating of wives *Prevented women from inheritance *He wore women's clothes (don't you read before copy and pasting?) |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by DanseMacabre(m): 4:05pm On Jun 03, 2017 |
Read 'The Satanic Verses' by Salman Sushdie. You'll gain a lot of insight, especially if you're literary minded. |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by Demmzy15(m): 6:24pm On Jun 03, 2017 |
WhoBeThisMan:Google is your friend, research and read the Muslims' narrative! 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by aminusanti(m): 7:19pm On Jun 03, 2017 |
WhoBeThisMan:I will cut dis into 2 parts, i will proceed to the next part if those online scholars above clear their lies. Alhamdulillah ! Islam provides more than enough detailed explanation and proofs on this "Killling of the apostate" Without knowledge of context these funny kafirs will come here to spread their mat of lies thinking everyone is foolish, sheepishly copying n paste without proper understanding. You can carry on hating islam but the truth will always remain, you can talk from now till next year if you like but whoever is here for the truth will surely benefit from it. You wont be getting any muslim here wasting his time to contribute knowing exactly who alBHAGDADI and his squad r here on NL. they are well known on NL for their dishonesty,lying, rude and disrespectful attitude towards other faiths(religion).. Today due to lack of proper understanding of the scripture both Muslims nd non-muslim get easily influenced by this kind of Islam haters (alBHAGDADI & co) on the internet and media showing islam is there to kill everyone...Notice no where in the Quran it was mentioned to kill an apostate...its always contrary to the hadith of the prophet and here is why.. 1. >>>Let us look at Noble Verse 3:72 "A section of the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) say: Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers (Muslims), but reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) turn back (from Islam)." While Islam was weak and still growing among Jews, Christians and Pagans back then, Muslims did not have the full and complete religion that they needed. Some Jews and Christians wanted to take advantage of such situation to destroy Islam. They had a plan to adopt Islam first and then desert it, thus creating the impression that Islam was not a religion worth adopting. To protect Islam from such Satanic attempts done by a group of the people of the book (Jews and Christians), Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him ordered the death of those who enter Islam and leave it. This temporary law that was put by our Prophet had stopped the hypocrites from the People of the Book who carried so much hatred toward Islam to enter Islam and desert it afterwards. 2. >>>QURAN 5:54<<< "O ye who believe! If any from among you turn back from his faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He (Allah) will love as they will love Him lowly with the believers, Mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproachers of such as find fault. That is the Grace of Allah which He will bestow on whom He (Allah) pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things." Here in this Holy Verse we see again Allah Almighty strengthening the faith of the Muslims in Islam by assuring them that whenever they see Muslims leaving Islam they will also see those who join Islam with strong faith and love to Allah Almighty not kill. 3. >>>Let us look at Noble Verse 3:90<<< "But those who reject faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of faith never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray." This Holy Verse also does not order the death of those who leave Islam. 4. >>>Quran: Let us look at Noble Verses 15:2-3<<< "Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them)." 5. >>>Quran: Let us look at Noble Verse 18:29<<< "Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it): for the wrong doers We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on!" 6. >>>The Noble Quran, 10:101-102<<< "Say: 'Behold all that is in the heavens and on earth'; but neither Signs nor Warners profit those who believe not. Do they then expect (any thing) but (what happened in) the days of the men who passed away before them? Say: 'Wait ye then: for I, too, will wait with you." Notice how Allah Almighty orders us to say "Wait" to those who reject Islam. This clearly says that we can't force anyone into Islam, or punish anyone for leaving Islam. 7.>>>Quran: Let us look at Noble Verse 2:256<<< "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things." The Holy Quran prohibits Muslims to force any person into Islam. Muslims must not let people resent Islam and Muslims. They must leave people decide for themselves because the "Truth stands out clear from error" (2:256). >>>Quran: Noble Verse 4:137 <<< "Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them nor guide them on the way." Notice that the Quran says those who reject faith and then BELIEVE and again DISBELIEVE. if a Muslim rejects faith and is then killed for doing so how will he live to again BELIEVE and then DISBELIEVE. The atmosphere of this verse is that of free will and freedom of choice to everyone. If Allah wanted he would have said something about the punishment, if there was any, of those who reject Islam after accepting it. but Allah takes this to be clearly a private matter between them and Allah. I found many verses in the Quran that teach us NO PUNISHMENT for an apostate BUT I found no verse that says the contrary. Compulsion is incompatible with religion: Because (1) religion depends upon faith and will, and these would be meaningless by force; (2) Truth and Error have been so clearly shown up by the mercy of Allah Almighty that there should be no doubt in the minds of any persons of good will as to the fundamentals of faith; (3) Allah Almighty's protection is continuous, and His Plan is always to lead us from the depths of darkness into the clearest light. 3 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by true2god: 11:34pm On Jun 03, 2017 |
aminusanti:How I wish that your revised version of Islam were true, but no, you cannot revise the commandments of allahh and his apostle. You might be right that the Koran did not make any specific reference to killing apostates, but the hadith did (the sunnah of your prophet also sanctioned the killing of apostates). Saudi Arabia, the centre and the source of Islamic religion and theology, approved the killing of apostates, in obedience to allahh and his messenger. The links below may assist you. www.express.co.uk/news/world/560329/Man-gets-death-sentence-for-apostasy-in-Saudi-Arabia-after-ripping-up-Koran https://www.loc.gov/law/help/apostasy/ www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-man-sentenced-death-atheism-ahmad-al-shamri-hafar-al-batin-appeal-denied-a7703161.html The quranic verses below sanctioned killing of whoever leaves islam: Quran (4:89) - "They wish that you should reject faith as they reject faith, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper." Verse 4:65 says that those who have faith are in "full submission" to Muhammad's teachings. This verse explains what should happen to Muslims who do not have faith. Quran (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist." If you read the above surah with open mind, you will discover that apostasy is never acceptable in the koran. Now compare the above surah with the hadith below; Sahih Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' " Sahih Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate." Sahih Bukhari (84:57) - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" Sahih Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle." Sahih Bukhari (84:58) - "There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, 'Who is this (man)?' Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.' Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.' Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'" Sahih Bukhari (84:64-65) - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.'" This verse from the Hadith is worse than it appears because it isn't speaking solely of apostates, but those who say they believe but don't put their religion into practice. I appreciate the fact that you wish Islam will be civil enough to accept apostates, but you are wrong. It is very clear in the hadith and the quran that apostates should be killed. Why do we have some verses of the quran that seem to promote religious freedom in Islam (Quran 2:256)? The peaceful Koranic verses were revealed in mecca when Mohammed was weak and was under the persecution of the meccan pagans. The violent verses, which were revealed in Medina, abrogated the meccan people verses. I believe you understand the concept of abrogation in Islam. In summary, killing apostates is mainstream Islam and part of the sunnah of the prophet, especially when he moved from mecca to Medina. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by true2god: 2:44pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by aminusanti(m): 4:02pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
true2god:is this a way for you to prove your empty claims?? So, i should use Saudi to judge islam not the scriptures? pls get this right, "wrong is wrong even if the whole world is doing it and right is right even if you are the only one doing it"...why cant you prove it using the scriptures if truly you knw what you are reading? Some few group of Muslims believe in killing apostates but according to most prominent scholars around the globe proved it is not and the same goes to the Bible the crusader and some other christian groups believed killing a non-believer/apostate is allowed using these bible verses, what are you going to say about them?? Are you saying they are doing it the right way?? Exermine the following verses closely >>>Deut 13:6<<< “If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods, do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.” >>>Deut<<< “And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, …..and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die.” is this how you interpret scriptures without any context? you dont have to lie to prove something my friend, i made this crystal clear in my prev post.. If a verse says "Kill them", Who does it refer to? Why? When you look at 88-94 you see: 1- Who: Hypocrites. 2- Why: They want you to leave your religion and fight against you. 3- Whoever wants peace, give it to them. Looking at the reasons for revelation of these verses, they were about the Battle of Uhud... It's about the deserters. Out of the 1000 fighters of the Muslim army, right before the battle started, some people left them and went back home, this is also mentioned in the Quran Surat 'Ali `Imran [3:166-168]... After the Muslims lost the battle, they disagreed on what to do with the people who deserted right before the battle. A simplified summary of what's in [4:88-94] would be: You can't help them unless they help themselves. They want you to leave your faith and be like them. If they fight you, you may kill them except for Those who join a group with whom you have a treaty. Those who don't want to fight. Those who send you (Guarantees of) peace. Allah opened no way for you to wage any war against them. You will find others who wish to obtain security from you. Who keep falling back into disbelief, and keep fighting Muslims. If they do not stop fighting, or offer peace, or restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you overtake them. Allah made a clear authorization about those. A believer should never kill a believer If it happens by mistake, the killer should pay a compensation. If it happens intentionally, the killer will go to Hell, for ever. Assume that whoever greets you with peace is a believer. Looks clear enough, it's about a specific group of people, and gave many possibilities, options, exceptions, clears out asumptions... thats the reason why you pple are always failing to comprehend even your scriptures bcus u only read without bothering to comprehend it as it should. Reading and understanding are two very different things. We all know this. Believers study the scriptures not with only open mind but also with good understanding; non-believers like you skim through it and somehow think that they have a firmer grasp on it than we do. Now read the next verse and see if you can understanding something there>> >>Quran [9:13] Will you not fight against those who broke their pledges and did all they could to drive the Messenger away and initiated hostilities against you? Do you fear them? Surely Allah has greater right that you should fear Him, if you are true believers. you will always misinterpret da islamic scriptures simply bcus u are only looking for fault in it and thats why you end up copying n pasting rubbish always.. from the above verse one can easily understand what the verses before this are talking about, those verses are talking about the hypocrites that will tale false oath in other to take advantage of the muslim by attacking them, what will you do if someone is there to harm/kill you? any sensible persn that read my prev post will surely knw i already explained all these... Again >>>Let us look at Noble Verse 3:72 "A section of the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) say: Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers (Muslims), but reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) turn back (from Islam)." While Islam was weak and still growing among Jews, Christians and Pagans back then, Muslims did not have the full and complete religion that they needed. Some Jews and Christians wanted to take advantage of such situation to destroy Islam. They had a plan to adopt Islam first and then desert it, thus creating the impression that Islam was not a religion worth adopting. To protect Islam from such Satanic attempts done by a group of the people of the book (Jews and Christians), Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him ordered the death of those who enter Islam and leave it. This temporary law that was put by our Prophet had stopped the hypocrites from the People of the Book who carried so much hatred toward Islam to enter Islam and desert it afterwards.Certainly if the apostate is hostile toward the Muslims and joins the enemy in a war against them, or tries to corrupt the Muslims in the Muslim lands by trying to convert them to his/her new deviant religion, then the matter becomes different in some arab nation... My Few questions for you * Does your scriptures support the killing of apostate? Deut 13:6<<<[/b] [color=#990000]“If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods, do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.” >>>Deut<<< “And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, …..and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die.” etc 4 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by alBHAGDADI: 4:39pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
aminusanti:You still don't get it, do you? Those were laws of Moses given to the nation of Israel as a constitution. They have nothing to do with Christians. Even the Israelites dont follow such laws anymore. If Jesus Christ endorsed such laws, he would have been killing the pagans in Israel then. Billions of people understand those laws as laws for idea of old and no more applicable. Also, billions of people understand Islamic Sharia law as a law still applicable in today's world, which makes the world barbaric. 6 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by true2god: 7:32pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
aminusanti:It is surprising that Nigerian Muslims seem to have more understanding of Islam than the numerous sheiks and ulamas in Saudi Arabia, the home of Islam and the country that hosts the yearly pilgrimage of hajj. It is shocking that a country, that is Nigeria, that experienced Islam for less than 250 years would want to lecture the country where Islam originated from, that is Saudi Arabia, their ancestral religion. That's the height or arrogance and ignorance, on the part of Nigerian or black Muslims. The Saudis will be smiling at your ignorance and arrogance. You said it is a few Muslim that approve of killing of apostates. Bros you are lying, either deliberately or ignorantly, and I believe the former to be true. Below is a link for countries where atheist and apostates are killed or jailed , and you know what, they are all Islamic countries; https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/12/13-countries-where-atheism-punishable-death/355961/ https://www.loc.gov/law/help/apostasy/ www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/05/islam-saudi-apostasy-201458142128717473.html Open the links above and read. It is a pity that Muslims no longer believe in facts and their own hadith, all in an attempt to defend the barbaric tradition of Islam, which are applicable in most hard core Islamic countries. In a typical Muslim manner you quoted the Jewish Torah of Deuteronomy in order to deflect current discussion. Can you show me a single Jewish or Christian country that punish apostates? The answer is non. Did Jesus ask his followers to kill apostates, the same way Mohammed did, and even executed some apostates personally which currently serves as part of the sunnah of your prophet Mohammed? And it is unfortunate that you have to juxtapos and wriggle in order to explain Quran 4:85 and 65 which sanctioned killing of apostates, what a shame. And again you condemned all the numerous hadith that sanctioned the killing of apostates, even when they are all sahih. Why do Muslims like lies and deceptions? The 'science' of hadith stipulate that an hadith is sahih when there are more that 2 or 3 chains of narrators, why are you breaking the rules of Islamic laws and jurisprudence? 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by aminusanti(m): 9:05pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
alBHAGDADI:I wont get it until you explain to us this your double standard nonsense.. I swear you are as confused as your trinity concept... Do you have sense at all? *"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." ~ Matt 5:17-19 * do the crusaders and other christian group kill apostate?
* is the God of moses the same as God of christians? * why would a loving jesus/ yahweh issued those laws as constitution to the nation of israel even if theyr temporary??
* why cant the laws in the hadith be old and b no more applicable in the case of islam? 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by aminusanti(m): 9:45pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
true2god:i am not here to be talking trash nd recycling issues pls you are still talking nonsense and not making any sense my friend. you r yet to prove anything about the killing of apostate. [s]You said it is a few Muslim that approve of killing of apostates. Bros you are lying, either deliberately or ignorantly, and I believe the former to be true. Below is a link for countries where atheist and apostates are killed or jailed , and you know what, they are all Islamic countries;Am done with you on this part if you like carry on deceiving yourself. anyone thats here for facts will understand my prev post..take your time and read again if you still fail to comprehend you can ask someone to help you out.. In a typical Muslim manner you quoted the Jewish Torah of Deuteronomy in order to deflect current discussion.* Do christian terrorist groups kill apostates using the of OT? * is the God (jesus/yahweh) of deuteronomy (moses) different from the God christians?? why all these double standard nonsense?? * why would the loving GOD order the killing of apostate in the nation of israel? * are the laws in OT and Hadith(on apostasy) permanent or temporary and what differentiate them? * Did you start seeing how selfish u r yet ?? Again another waste of space..read my prev post pls..thnx 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by plappville(f): 10:28pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by plappville(f): 10:31pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
alBHAGDADI: My bro, You are on Track. I will be reading and dropping of needed. 1 Like |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by Deicide: 1:19am On Jun 05, 2017 |
It seems like you guys are quoting from different Quran or what? |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by true2god: 5:40am On Jun 05, 2017 |
plappville:The Arabs are very clear on this, the punishment for apostasy, in islam, is either death or imprisonment. Unfortunately, non-arab Muslims (fake Muslims and wanabe Arabs) will always try to deny, and deflect from this ugly reality. |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by true2god: 5:42am On Jun 05, 2017 |
Deicide:The Muslims here are trying to deceive us kafirs, but fortunately we kafirs have read their dirty secrets. Thanks to the internet. 1 Like |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by true2god: 5:54am On Jun 05, 2017 |
aminusanti:Oh you guys have started again, dragging the Bible down to promote current Islamic barbarity. The Jewish law is for the Jews. Jews are a race and judaism is their religion. Islam is not a race but an ideology, from the Arabs, that had gone global. I can't see anywhere the Jews are asking anybody or any country to follow the laws of moses. Nowhere and at no any time in history! The laws in Deuteronomy are meants for the Jews ONLY. The Islamic laws are not only for the Arab-muslims, the sharia law, according to allahh and his messenger, is meant to be universal. That is forcing Arabian laws and customs on other race and people of the earth, either peacefully or violently (as the case often be). Apostasy and blasphemy laws are parts of the sunnah of your prophet as contained in numerous hadith narrations. Stop lying mr lienus. 1 Like |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by ilynem(m): 6:03am On Jun 05, 2017 |
aminusanti:My friend. Good day to you. I hope the fasting is going well? Please pray for Allah's blessings for us all. I have to say, I admire you. I sincerely do. You really see Islam from the lenses of a good man. I know its hard and annoying for people (who you believe know little about your religion) to come and bash it for the wrong reasons. But also you should try taking of your Muslim tinted glasses for a while. Below is a screen grab of statistics conducted by Pew research on the percentage of Muslims who believe in Killing of apostates. So your argument of "few" Muslims believing in it is wrong. Now please study the data below and notice that the countries with the highest percentage are those countries who practice Islam more keenly. Look at high percentage for Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan and Afghanistan. But low percentage for the likes of Turkey. I heard that Turkey is known as the most westernized Islamic country in the world where women even wear bikinis (dunno how true this is to be honest). So you can agree with me that those with low percentage are practicing what I will call the watered down kinda Islam. Not the TRUE ISLAM. Now notice that Saudi Arabia the home of Islam isn't even taken into account. Killing of Apostasy is keenly practiced there. Go on twitter and follow Ex Muslim TV and see many people who have fled Saudi for their lives because they have decided to dump their faith. Honestly though, can I live in Saudi and practice another faith? Is that even possible?? Sir, I really really want Islam to be what you preach, but unfortunately many of your scholars do not agree with you. That is why they are scholars and you are here arguing on Nairaland. The only scholars who will say otherwise are the ones on the internet trying to get the public on the side of Islam. Then you mentioned that the only time it was mentioned to Muhammad was only if people convert to Islam and then try to leave again, right? Now Islam was new in the time of Muhammad. Very few people where born Muslims. Or the ones who were born into the faith where probably even still young. Most Muslims were converts. From Judaism, Christianity and Pagan practices. So essentially, if anyone at all was to leave Islam, he must have been formally a Jew, a Christian, or a Pagan. You get my point? In the end, it is kill anyone who leaves Islam because few were born into it at that time and every Muslim then was a convert from other religions. Get the point? Finally you quoted the Bible and then blamed us for not understanding when the meaning of what you quoted was in that scripture and still you didn't pick it up. Let me break it down for you. I don't want to go into root Greek words, so I will just explain it plainly for you to see. Matthew 5: 17-18 says :Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. I want you to notice the bolded. I will ask you one question. Was Jesus a failure? Because like my other thread about Allah aiding Christianity, you Muslims claim you respect and love Jesus but your teachings keep pointing to Him as a failure. So the question is, is the law of moses still binding today? Let us take verse 17. Jesus says he didn't come to Destroy the law but to Fulfill it. I would have explained the Greek root word of "destroy" but let's not go that deep. Now notice, Jesus said He has come to Fulfill the Law! I repeat, Fulfill the law! Now verse 18. Jesus says the law shall not pass until it is fulfilled. But Jesus came to Fulfill it. So if Jesus has fulfilled the law, then... I will leave u to complete that. But if you say Jesus didn't fulfill the law and that the law is still binding, then you are calling Jesus a failure because He said He was on earth to fulfill it. So you people need to stop calling Jesus a prophet of Islam because all your teachings point to Jesus as a failure. But if you say Jesus is not a failure, then He actually fulfilled the Law which means, it is no longer binding. As-salamu alaykum Brother. PS: If the God of moses is the same God Muhammad and Muslims claim to worship, are you not to follow the laws of the Torah, which supports killing of apostates? doesn't that just mean it is allowed in Islam?
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Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by alBHAGDADI: 7:40am On Jun 05, 2017 |
aminusanti:Your lack of understanding of the Bible is what's bothering you. When Christ was on earth, he lived under the law. When he died and resurrected, the law passed away automatically. That's why the curtain covering the Holies of Holies tore open. People now had access to God directly, unlike when they had to go through a priest. Sacrifices of lambs became obsolete as Jesus Christ became the lamb once and for all. He couldn't have said he came to abolish the law when he was still under it. But the moment he died, he became free from the law and his resurrection freed others too. Even before his death and resurrection, he gave hints as to why the law would be obsolete- preventing the mob from stoning the adulterous woman according to the law. Remember how he ordered against an eye for an eye? aminusanti:And where do the words of Christ command such? Whoever does contrary to his words do such in his own accord. aminusanti:The God of Moses is the same one who came down to earth. This was prophecied by all the prophets including Moses. aminusanti:hebrews 10:1 New Living Translation The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship. that was why God came down in flesh to end the sacrifice of lambs so as to redeem mankind once and for all. John 1:2 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! aminusanti:Thats cos you guys failed to acknowledge the sacrifice of Jesus Christ which abolished and freed us from the law and traditions of old which were a curse, you just kept clinging on to them. Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"-- But since Muslims still hold on to the law, they have made themselves accursed. 1 Like |
Re: Muslims And Christians , Pls I Need Some Clarifications (matured Minds Only) by kkins25(m): 3:36pm On Jun 05, 2017 |
alBHAGDADI:Anytime you want to rebuke a muslim for genocide the muslim quickly goes to the old Testament to support his action. They use the old Testament to justify the killings that is done in the name of Allah. I mean allah.. 2 Likes |
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