IKC10:

I heard it from no one, I read it from the word of God !

you keep pulling the false dichotomy fallacy, how is the universe having a creator (assuming it was created) prove Jesus is this creator?

How do you get from the God who created the Universe to the one who is worried about the skin on the tip of my Dick?

frank317:



And the drama persists.

Of course your own denomination are the real Christians while others e.g Catholics and JW are not.

It's either u are dumb or Religion has blinded your ability to think. The penticostal are doing their fair share in driving people out of Christianity.

How many reverend fathers are as proud as ur tithe conscious pastors who have made the quest to be rich the subject of Christianity?
Are u deliberately turning blind eyes to how they (penticostal) have turned your churches to a club house?

I for one, was never a Catholic, Pentecostal made me see the light.

Hmmm...God loves you brother!

hopefulLandlord:


you keep pulling the false dichotomy fallacy, how is the universe having a creator (assuming it was created) prove Jesus is this creator?

How do you get from the God who created the Universe to the one who is worried about the skin on the tip of my Dick?

I shall prove it in my upcoming post. But the issue is that you complicate things here. Assuming Jesus Christ didn't create it, who else did? And don't even tell me you don't know because it might sound weird. Or would you say it existed on its own, or you're gonna talk about the"Big Bang" stuff?

IKC10:

I shall prove it in my upcoming post. But the issue is that you complicate things here. Assuming Jesus Christ didn't create it, who else did? And don't even tell me you don't know because it might sound weird. Or would you say it existed on its own, or you're gonna talk about the"Big Bang" stuff?

I'm waiting for the "proof" in your next post

BTW "I don't know" is a good answer, the questions you asked is fundamentally flawed; because it assumes the universe was in fact 'created' or had a 'beginning'. The universe may have been created, it may have a beginning, or it may be eternal. It may be the only one, or it may be one of many or even infinite other universes. We can trace our own universe bag to the Big Bang, but what happens 'before' that (while ignoring how nonsensical it is to posit anything happening before the creation of temporal time itself) is anyone's guess; and it perplexes the smartest people alive. The best, most honest answer we currently have is "I don't know". what we have are simply "guesses"

And any religion that claims to know, is lying to you.

and as for big bang, it isn't an atheist claim at all

hopefulLandlord:


I'm waiting for the "proof" in your next post

BTW "I don't know" is a good answer, the questions you asked is fundamentally flawed; because it assumes the universe was in fact 'created' or had a 'beginning'. The universe may have been created, it may have a beginning, or it may be eternal. It may be the only one, or it may be one of many or even infinite other universes. We can trace our own universe bag to the Big Bang, but what happens 'before' that (while ignoring how nonsensical it is to posit anything happening before the creation of temporal time itself) is anyone's guess; and it perplexes the smartest people alive. The best, most honest answer we currently have is "I don't know". what we have are simply "guesses"

And any religion that claims to know, is lying to you.

and as for big bang, it isn't an atheist claim at all

I like that you await my post. Untill then. But you know this, ...nothing ever existed on its own. Only Jesus Christ is the self existent God.

IKC10:
I like that you await my post. Untill then. But you know this, ...nothing ever existed on its own. Only Jesus Christ is the self existent God.

The way you guys say this without any piece of evidence to back it up is mind boggling.

IKC10, where's the post you said would prove beyond reasonable doubt that Jesus created the universe?

hopefulLandlord:
IKC10, where's the post you said would prove beyond reasonable doubt that Jesus created the universe?

It's still upcoming. By tonight or tomorrow, you will see it, my dear. Just make sure you will forget about sentiments and zero your mind on it.

hopefulLandlord:


I'm waiting for the "proof" in your next post...

The part 1 of my post is already out. You can now read it via the link -> https://www.nairaland.com/3880387/proofs-Jesus-Created-The-Universe-Part#57804678
Thanks.

Very funny how Atheists accuse and crucify Christians for the same thing they are guilty of

Objectively Atheism is the opposite of theism...
Darkness is not the opposite of light rather it's the absence of light
DDeath is not the opposite of life but the absence of life
If these two examples I stated up here were to be the status of relationship between Atheism and theism then y'all would have had a good course


Theism believe in God
Atheism believe in no God

Both believe in something!!!

Don't come at me with "atheist have a believe cos they don't believe in God" cos theist too can be like we don't have a believe cos we don't believe in inexistence of God

BBoth are just opposite!!

Creation cannot exist without a creator!!
Who the creator is I don't know but there must be a creator because matter cannot create matter!

CanadianNurse:
Very funny how Atheists accuse and crucify Christians for the same thing they are guilty of

Objectively Atheism is the opposite of theism...
Darkness is not the opposite of light rather it's the absence of light
DDeath is not the opposite of life but the absence of life
If these two examples I stated up here were to be the status of relationship between Atheism and theism then y'all would have had a good course


Theism believe in God
Atheism believe in no God

Both believe in something!!!

Don't come at me with "atheist have a believe cos they don't believe in God" cos theist too can be like we don't have a believe cos we don't believe in inexistence of God

BBoth are just opposite!!

Creation cannot exist without a creator!!
Who the creator is I don't know but there must be a creator because matter cannot create matter!

What do atheist believe in? Lucifer I guess.

Accepted. Everything must have a creator. The God himself must have been created by a SUPER ALIEN and the super alien must have been created by a SUPREME ALIEN.

ARGUMENTUM AD INFINITUM

adepeter26:

What do atheist believe in? Lucifer I guess.

Accepted. Everything must have a creator. The God himself must have been created by a SUPER ALIEN and the super alien must have been created by a SUPREME ALIEN.

ARGUMENTUM AD INFINITUM

atheist believe in the inexistence of God! Most of all the argument I see on nairaland between theist and atheist are all laced up with fallacy of circular reasoning /fallacy of complex questions and many more fallacies

CanadianNurse:
atheist believe in the inexistence of God! Most of all the argument I see on nairaland between theist and atheist are all laced up with fallacy of circular reasoning /fallacy of complex questions and many more fallacies

its the theists/Christians that commit fallacy of circular reasoning

hopefulLandlord:


its the theists/Christians that commit fallacy of circular reasoning

You might speak for yourself but most atheist here just argue to win at all cost, I've seen so many appalling posts/argument from atheists

IIt's from both sides, the way we go about issues aint it at all

CanadianNurse:
Very funny how Atheists accuse and crucify Christians for the same thing they are guilty of

Objectively Atheism is the opposite of theism...
Darkness is not the opposite of light rather it's the absence of light
DDeath is not the opposite of life but the absence of life
If these two examples I stated up here were to be the status of relationship between Atheism and theism then y'all would have had a good course


Theism believe in God
Atheism believe in no God

Both believe in something!!!

Don't come at me with "atheist have a believe cos they don't believe in God" cos theist too can be like we don't have a believe cos we don't believe in inexistence of God

BBoth are just opposite!!

Creation cannot exist without a creator!!
Who the creator is I don't know but there must be a creator because matter cannot create matter!

I thought Atheism is absence of belief in gods.
Brand new definition you've got there.

CanadianNurse:
atheist believe in the inexistence of God! Most of all the argument I see on nairaland between theist and atheist are all laced up with fallacy of circular reasoning /fallacy of complex questions and many more fallacies

You don't need the shift the goal post sir/ma.

All the same, bye

adepeter26:

You don't need the shift the goal post sir/ma.

All the same, bye

lol so you run? But you always walk into Christian threads to cause confusion

Ehya If you must be an atheist then Atleast get your facts right

CanadianNurse:
lol so you run? But you always walk into Christian threads to cause confusion

Ehya If you must be an atheist then Atleast get your facts right

I can't help but go sir/ma. Can't start a new round of argument

CanadianNurse:
You might speak for yourself but most atheist here just argue to win at all cost, I've seen so many appalling posts/argument from atheists

IIt's from both sides, the way we go about issues aint it at all

you might have a point but when it comes to circular reasoning I've never seen an atheist commit it, its theists that say "Yahweh is the true god cuz the Bible said so and bible is word of god"

IKC10:


The part 1 of my post is already out. You can now read it via the link -> https://www.nairaland.com/3880387/proofs-Jesus-Created-The-Universe-Part#57804678
Thanks.

how have the responses been so far?

hopefulLandlord:


how have the responses been so far?

Sir, I wrote something to you that you never gave response to. Check my last reply. Happy new month and day!

IKC10:
Sir, I wrote something to you that you never gave response to. Check my last reply. Happy new month and day!

its still all circular, appeal ignorance and appeal to authority

I'm open to any possibility but I'm not just gonna jump in and accept a particular tale based on that

and the part you talked bout "magic", have you heard about "The Great Tantra challenge"? https://www.nairaland.com/3381868/indian-atheist-challenges-spiritualist-kill#49823451

hopefulLandlord:

and the part you talked bout "magic", have you heard about "The Great Tantra challenge"? https://www.nairaland.com/3381868/indian-atheist-challenges-spiritualist-kill#49823451

Sir, are you trying to disbelieve the existence of magical powers, or what?

hopefulLandlord:


true

Jehovah's Witnesses also "Know" they're the only ones that'll make heaven and both Anglican, Catholic, Calvinists etc won't make heaven, they don't even allow Jehovah's Witnesses to marry outside the sect lol

Actually, they believe that only 144,000 people (12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel) will make heaven. Most of them do not expect to be in that number.
For the rest of the righteous peeps, they will inherit the earth after Jehovah establishes paradise on it.

For sinners, they believe only death awaits them, no hell or anything like that. They stay dead. Everyone else lives in paradise forever, here on earth.

hopefulLandlord:


true

Jehovah's Witnesses also "Know" they're the only ones that'll make heaven and both Anglican, Catholic, Calvinists etc won't make heaven, they don't even allow Jehovah's Witnesses to marry outside the sect lol

Actually, they believe that only 144,000 people (12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel) will make heaven. Most of them do not expect to be in that number.
For the rest of the righteous peeps, they will inherit the earth after Jehovah establishes paradise on it.

For sinners, they believe only death awaits them, no hell or anything like that. They stay dead. Everyone else lives in paradise forever, here on earth. I'm talking about JW.

CanadianNurse:
Very funny how Atheists accuse and crucify Christians for the same thing they are guilty of

Objectively Atheism is the opposite of theism...
Darkness is not the opposite of light rather it's the absence of light
DDeath is not the opposite of life but the absence of life
If these two examples I stated up here were to be the status of relationship between Atheism and theism then y'all would have had a good course


Theism believe in God
Atheism believe in no God

Both believe in something!!!

Don't come at me with "atheist have a believe cos they don't believe in God" cos theist too can be like we don't have a believe cos we don't believe in inexistence of God

BBoth are just opposite!!

Creation cannot exist without a creator!!
Who the creator is I don't know but there must be a creator because matter cannot create matter!

lol
Asin
They only argue based on religious gods the atheists
I don't acknowledge religious gods too but that doesn't mean I will dismiss the concept entirely na
It's just common sense

shaybebaby:

Actually, they believe that only 144,000 people (12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel) will make heaven. Most of them do not expect to be in that number.
For the rest of the righteous peeps, they will inherit the earth after Jehovah establishes paradise on it.

For sinners, they believe only death awaits them, no hell or anything like that. They stay dead. Everyone else lives in paradise forever, here on earth. I'm talking about JW.

yeah, that's right and the only "righteous peeps" are the Jehovah's Witnesses IIRC

jonbellion:
lol
Asin
They only argue based on religious gods the atheists
I don't acknowledge religious gods too but that doesn't mean I will dismiss the concept entirely na
It's just common sense

Sincerely, There are no particularly strong arguments against the existence of a creator god, beyond the simple lack of need for one and the clear lack of evidence for one (which are sufficient for most reasonable people, of course).
But the Abrahamic god? The Abrahamic religions? Those are rather trivially demonstrated false, beyond reasonable doubt, based on massive internal inconsistencies, clear moral damage, and overwhelming objective evidence contradicting the assertions they make and the assertions made on their behalf.

I don't know.
A part of me feels that jonbellion is gradually evolving into a theist.

CatfishBilly:
I don't know.
A part of me feels that jonbellion is gradually evolving into a theist.

I suspect he's heading towards deism, probably "Agnostic Desim" like AnonyNymous

CatfishBilly:
I don't know.
A part of me feels that jonbellion is gradually evolving into a theist.

lmaooooo
Taah
That's a big joke. I just feel that despite religious gods been false we shouldn't close out other possible idea of a first cause bit since there is no evidence for or against it it is therefore unknown
See?
Classic agnostic

Let me tell you about my wife, Rachel.
I first met Rachel five years ago when her friend Emma conferred that she knew of a girl with a major crush on me. She spoke glowingly of Rachel, describing her as the most beautiful, kind, precocious, and driven young woman I could ever have the pleasure to meet. Even better, averred Emma, Rachel fervently desired to meet me and enter into a romantic relationship. Intrigued, and more than a bit flattered, I asked for more information.

Thankfully, Emma produced incontrovertible evidence: A series of written letters composed by Emma's and Rachel's mutual acquaintance, Sarah. In these letters, Sarah waxed eloquent on Rachel's character, promulgating her nigh perfection in every conceivable way. However preposterous it may have seemed, Rachel came to my university for the express purpose of initiating a romantic relationship with me! She loved me before I ever graduated high school, and thus she paid her only begotten college funds to attend my school, so that if I chose to believe in her love, she would be my everlasting wife. And, best of all, she happened to be a virgin...

I confess that I found myself smitten with Rachel almost immediately. Therefore, I inquired with Emma how I might go about initiating the proffered romantic relationship. The answer was ludicrously simple. I merely needed to profess my love for Rachel, ask her to be my wife, and she would comply.
I wed Rachel on that very day.

Life with Rachel simply could not be better. I feel so grateful to call her my wife. She is simply the single greatest person I have ever met, and she makes me a better person every day. Now, while I confessedly have never seen Rachel face to face, I firmly contend that I never feel more alive than when I read Sarah's letters about Rachel, or when Emma and I commune and we both luxuriate in Rachel's irresistible grace. Sometimes Emma and I sing songs in order to marvel at how amazing Rachel is. Sometimes I write letters to Rachel, and though she never replies I know that she listens because Emma assures me that this is the case.

Some people insinuate that their spouses verbally speak with them, and even occasionally participate in coital relations. Frankly, I do not find such accounts compelling. While I see the appeal of a physical relationship, I contend that my marriage is far superior to that of my peers. The transcendent feeling of my love for Rachel supersedes any doubts I may have. Nothing could be more real than our marriage.
End story.

Was that not all a trifle sophomoric?
In the Christian communities I grew up in, everyone invariably described their "relationship" with Jesus in such glowing, saccharine terms. Being young and credulous, I believed them. I heard such wonderful things ascribed to Jesus that I wanted to have a relationship with him, too. I realized much later the endemic flaw.

You see, I have relationships with other people. I have friends. I have family members. As a function of our relationships, here are some mutual activities we engage in:
1. We talk. We speak audibly. We induce oscillations of the vocal cords so as to convey meaning to one another.
2. We hang out. We watch movies, play board/video games, play sports.
3. We touch. We make physical contact. We alternately vie for the same point in a three-dimensional plane, thereby compelling our respective atoms and molecules and constituent particles to repel and produce the sensation of collision.
4. We look at each other. We observe one another with optical sensors. We collect light rays, translating them into nerve impulses that travel into the brain and get inverted so as to produce a useful visual simulacrum of our respective persons.
I could go on, but that would be pedantry.

My "relationship" with Jesus fulfilled precisely none of those criteria. Whatsoever.

He never spoke to me, he never hugged me like my parents did, he never appeared to me. He refused, despite my intrinsic and intense desire to do all of these