MiddleDimension:

the quran is also claimed by its believers, the Ummah, as a book of prophesy that tells the past, the creation of man; tells the present, how Islam will be divided after the death of Russul'llah, into a spiritually significant number 72; and tells the future, what will happen to the unbelievers on the last day. It is the same with so many oral and written scriptures of different cultures of present and time past.

Not all . besides some things were copied from bible and perverted. Remember that the writings of the bible were thousands of years before islam.

Yes, the bible foretold a day when "nations will fight against nations..." etc. But the fact remains that nations have always fought nations, and kingdoms against kingdoms even before Jesus was ever born! So it is not telling us anything new!

There is absolutely nothing special about the bible! Unless by "special", you don't mean unique, priviledged or superior.

Several prophecies of the bible were fulfilled right in the bible days.And many event of our modern day are fulfilment of prophecies in the bible. The bible foretold the ceasation of isreal as a nation. it came to pass. The name of isreal was no longer in the world map.The bible also foretold isreal would become a nation again. it came to pass. israel became a nation again. it foretold one currency. it foretold microchipping on the body. ift foretold the advent of a one world government. television and internet etc and etc

Maestro21:


The answer to your question is in my question to you. No need for scriptures as they would fly over you. So logic will do.

The problem with the guy Ever8054 is that he lacks basic intelligence. There are many of them on NL. Even though they try to use religion to cover up, it still shows.

donnie:


The problem with the guy Ever8054 is that he lacks basic intelligence. There are many of them on NL. Even though they try to use religion to cover up, it still shows.

what's this one saying?...

donnie:


The problem with the guy Ever8054 is that he lacks basic intelligence. There are many of them on NL. Even though they try to use religion to cover up, it still shows.

I could not have said it any better.

Ever8054:
since we started this argument I have quoted scriptures that are in line with statement,you only quoted one out of context so give me scriptures to defend your divorced,gate fee collector from people to worship God,auctioning of miracle cloths,receiving money from criminals and refusing to return it under the pretext of seed sowing and jerry curl pastor they will never fly over me...just try me with one pls.thank you

Pastor Chris is not under trial. If you read through my previous posts I have addressed most of what you have above.

I said most because you would need to look around the Pentecostal and Orthodox circles to find where miracle cloths were auctioned because that certainly did not occur in CEC.

If you still don't get the answers you want from my posts then I may not be of help to you.

I find it amusing how you have sidestepped the fact that you could not answer my questions to start throwing red herrings up and down. So funny.

Maestro21:


Pastor Chris is not under trial. If you read through my previous posts I have addressed most of what you have above.

I said most because you would need to look around the Pentecostal and Orthodox circles to find where miracle cloths were auctioned because that certainly did not occur in CEC.

If you still don't get the answers you want from my posts then I may not be of help to you.

I find it amusing how you have sidestepped the fact that you could not answer my questions to start throwing red herrings up and down. So funny.

but you guys said there is no such thing as pentecostal church. also, when you mention orthodox church, remember that that refers to those churches in eastern europe and the middleast ans north africa.

as for the reply to my other post, i will respond when i have the time to. the same goes to joeagbaje and co.

MiddleDimension:


but you guys said there is no such thing as pentecostal church. also, when you mention orthodox church, remember that that refers to those churches in eastern europe and the middleast ans north africa.

as for the reply to my other post, i will respond when i have the time to. the same goes to joeagbaje and co.

Some people call themselves that. Should I call them another name?

Maestro21:


You can't be a member of any church by being a true Christian. You are a member of a church when you share the vision of the church and God has called you to be there. In such a situation, you are not at sea with the goings-on but understand everything because your reason for being there is spiritual and not carnal or fleshly.

Jesus lost some disciples because they could not handle his teachings. It is the same today. I mean, if you are a genuine believer in the words of Jesus how would you sit comfortably when people shout "die die die" for their perceived enemies when Jesus told us to love them and pray for them? Or how would you chase children away who came to feast on the word of God so they can GROW thereby and you tell them to go and "dress properly"?

I can guarantee you, the flow of God's spirit will be limited in such gatherings and when they see other supposed carnal christians who don't dress well achieve more than them they accuse them of being fake or they just have deep-seated envy for them. Meanwhile, Jesus told us the kingdom belongs to babes- those who are ready to take him at his word, without fleshly reasonings.

You probably didn't get the message, focus more on being a Christian than being religious

Eaugusta:

You probably didn't get the message, focus more on being a Christian than being religious

Practice what you preach.

Joagbaje:


Not all . besides some things were copied from bible and perverted. Remember that the writings of the bible were thousands of years before islam.



Several prophecies of the bible were fulfilled right in the bible days.And many event of our modern day are fulfilment of prophecies in the bible. The bible foretold the ceasation of isreal as a nation. it came to pass. The name of isreal was no longer in the world map.The bible also foretold isreal would become a nation again. it came to pass. israel became a nation again. it foretold one currency. it foretold microchipping on the body. ift foretold the advent of a one world government. television and internet etc and etc

not all what?

Islam is the third of the abrahamic religions, hence it has to contain some aspects of the christian bible. Just as the christianity adopted the whole of the jewish holybook, the OT, into their bible.

Now as for the quran perverting the bible, well, it is the same way the jews see the christian NT too. Have you ever sort the opinion of the jew on the NT? Have you ever sort the opinion of the typical jew on the person of Jesus? They call him an impostor! And all the teachings of particularly Paul? And also the whole idea of a resurection? Maybe you should find out.

Just as you christians believe that though the jews are a people of god, they are missing certing things or getting certain things absolutely wrong, so too the muslims see you christians as being of god, but missing out and outrightly getting other things wrong. So you can't judge.

Every single time the bible foretold the ceasation of Israel, it always tell you the people who would sack them. The babylonians, et al comes to mind here. The ceasation of isreal the bible foretold came about in the OT. The bible never foretold the invasion of isreal by Alexander the great, neither did it foretell the roman occupation at which time Jesus would be born. The bible also did not mention a Hitler. Mind you, not only the jews suffered at the hands of the NAZIs, the Gypsies and the Roma people did too. What would you say about that? The point is: there is nothing special about the Hebrews and by extension, the bible. So quit telling me about some prophesies of things that are normal things about the history of the human race.

And about the microchips etc you talked about: well, i am sorry you are sounding like one of those conspiracy theorists who think everyone in the society is some frieghtful person.

If you understand anything about the Human race, you would know that disagreement is an instrinsic part of us as human beings. Diversity is built into the very fabric of our existence. If you look into Quantum Physics, you will understand this, and also, if you look at the bible mythology of the tower of babel. I think that's what the mythical story of the tower of babel was trying to explain to us. So no, there will never be a one currency for the entire world. The UK just Brexited for crying out loud. And there will never be a micro chipping of all humans.

Maestro21:


Perhaps you should leave exegesis for actual Christians don't you think?

1. When other disciples called Jesus "Lord" Judas referred to him as "Teacher". That was all Jesus was to him. He questioned his status as the master whose position was non-negotiable.

2. To buttress this, he felt Mary Magdalene's gift to Jesus was not worthy of him. If he truly believed Jesus was the messiah he would not have said so.

3. Jesus referred to Judas as the "son of Perdition". In Christian parlance that means he rejected Christ's salvation despite it being provided to him like it was to Peter (who also denied Jesus) but he tossed it aside for self-righteousness which is why he committed suicide despite knowing better having walked with Jesus for 3 years.

Judas is no different from any Agnostic, Atheist or persons of other religions who believe that Jesus was just a good teacher who had some good teachings. Jesus has to be seen for who he is which is Lord and God. If you countervene this, then you are questioning his calling, teaching and authority. Period.

no, i won't leave the so-called exegesis to christians alone.

1. That point isn't correct! The other disciples also called Jesus "teacher". This can be found in the transfiguration of Jesus. Peter called Jesus "teacher".

Being called "teacher", does not mean that one is debasing you. As a matter of fact, the word translated teacher is actually Rabbi. It is the same as the word "mallam" in northern Nigeria especially pre-colonial times. The person called mallam/Rabbi in the respective societies are highly placed people. They are people of authority! Judas calling Jesus teacher, means he identifies Jesus as someone of authority. Don't understand the teacher he called Jesus in the sense we unfortunately understand it today.

2. I think you are being unfair to the person Judas. He did not think Jesus was unworthy of the gift. The reason he said so was clearly stated in that same passage. "...for he was a theif...".

Since he was the tressurer of the group, he was hoping that if they sold it, they would keep the money with him so that he could again "...help himself of the bag" like he always do.

Judas in this case, is no different from the person who would say that instead of paying this huge money as tithe to an already rich church, why don't you go to motherless babies home and to the beggers on the street and give the money to them? They say this as if if they were given the go ahead, they would actually help the poor with the money. That's the sort of person Judas portrayed in that story.

3. Again you are being unfair to Judas here. You really cannot compare Judas' betrayal to Peter's denial of Jesus. Judas handed an innocent man from whom Judas had benefitted alot, to those who would kill him while peter was only too afraid to stand by his friend when he needed him the most. Judas' fuuk up was more massive than Peter's

again, don't be too judgemental of Judas for the suicide he committed for he truely did that out of remorse. He rejected the money given to him cried and cried, and then became suicidal. That wasn't self-righteousness, that was remorse!

Jesus himself doesn't even allow you to have any opinion on Judas' issue because he didn't give a straight answer when Peter asked him after his resurection what would happen to the one who was lost.

Again, Judas is nothing near the likes of me who are atheist, agnostics etc. He had no doubts about Jesus. He was only not able to tame his greed, like some of your pastors can't tame theirs.

I and many other atheists and agnostics have been put in charge of some amount of money before and we didn't steal them.

MiddleDimension:


no, i won't leave the so-called exegesis to christians alone.

1. That point isn't correct! The other disciples also called Jesus "teacher". This can be found in the transfiguration of Jesus. Peter called Jesus "teacher".

Being called "teacher", does not mean that one is debasing you. As a matter of fact, the word translated teacher is actually Rabbi. It is the same as the word "mallam" in northern Nigeria especially pre-colonial times. The person called mallam/Rabbi in the respective societies are highly placed people. They are people of authority! Judas calling Jesus teacher, means he identifies Jesus as someone of authority. Don't understand the teacher he called Jesus in the sense we unfortunately understand it today.

There is a reason you were told to leave exegesis to spirit-led people. I said THAT WAS ALL Jesus was to Judas- a good teacher and nothing else. Jesus had already told them earlier that any man would be to you what you see in him (by revelation).

Some only saw Jesus as a carpenter. To them, getting their furnitures delivered to them was all they benefitted from him. Some saw him as a prophet (Samaritan woman) and he prophesied to them. Some saw him as a teacher, he taught them. Some as a healer- he healed them. Others as a miracle worker- he performed miracles for them (Mary his mum at the Wedding in Cana). While some (like the criminal on the cross) saw him as the Messiah and they got salvation from him.

When Jesus asked his disciples who he was to them, they kept mum. Only Peter spoke up. Did Jesus praise him for his wisdom? No. Instead Jesus told him that Peter only knew that by revelation. That is why the scriptures would look like a mere book to you, because it has not been revealed to you by the Holy Spirit.

2. I think you are being unfair to the person Judas. He did not think Jesus was unworthy of the gift. The reason he said so was clearly stated in same passage. "...for he was a theif...".

Mary spent almost a year's wage on that perfume and did not even give it to Jesus to use. She poured it on his feet because that was the appreciation she had for Jesus. Someone else saw it and felt she wasted it.

Question, if Judas felt she wasted it, was he not saying the person who received it- Jesus - did not deserve it?

When 2 criminals were on the cross with Jesus. 1 of them said "son of God, free us and free yourself or else you are a scammer". The other said " don't talk like that. This man is who he claims to be".

Is it not clear between the 2 of them that even though both called him "the Christ" only 1 of them truly saw him as that? The other one was like Judas.

3. Again you are being unfair to Judas here. You really cannot compare Judas' betrayal to Peter's denial of Jesus. Judas handed an innocent man from whom Judas had benefitted alot, to those who would kill him while peter was only too afraid to stand by his friend when he needed him the most. Judas' fuuk up was more massive than Peter's

Uninitiated men look at things the way you described above- but not spiritual men. Jesus told us the implications of denying him: he said any man who denies him infront of men, his father in Heaven will deny in return. And if God denies you, it means you are not getting into heaven.

So spiritually Peter's offense was heaven-depriving as much as you want to claim Judas' was. Both were being used by Satan at the time (Jesus said so). In fact, Peter was warned before hand and he boasted he would not fail (self-righteousness) yet he failed miserably.

What differed between both men was their repentance. For while Judas felt remorseful he did not repent. Repentance does not equate to crying or confessing sins like some people believe. Genuine repentance or "Metanoia" means to change your mind about something and turn to something else (in this case God).

Judas cried bitterly like Esau (Heb 12:17) but he did not repent because if he did he would not have committed suicide. In contrast, Peter wept bitterly and asked for forgiveness from God. That is genuine repentance because he translated from self-pity and penance to God's love and forgiveness.

Again, Judas is nothing near the likes of me who are atheist, agnostics etc. He had no doubts about Jesus. He was only not able to tame his greed, like some of your pastors can't tame theirs

.

Au contraire he very much is. Most Agnostics and Atheists quote some teachings of Jesus and say how great a teacher he was but they don't see him as God that he is. Some feel those of us who put our monies in the gospel are fools (Just like Judas felt about Mary Magdalene).

It is not enough to like Jesus. You have to believe in him as Lord and God or else you are like Judas.

Receive Jesus today!

Thanks for this information. I was surprise with what Marchman posted earlier. Since I join Christ embassy, no one has ever force me to pay any money of a kind. I pay willingly and God has been blessing me. I voluntary join partnership because I've been a beneficiary for many years. Before I join Christ embassy I've been watching pastor Chris message free on TV, I've been reading rhapsody of reality free of charge,etc. All these are sponsored by some people and I can see the blessing of God in their life. now that am a member, am ready to do more. The only secret to God's blessing is by giving.

jared007:
https://www.nairaland.com/3895448/why-left-christ-embassy-church

And a man's foes shall be they of his own household (Matt 10: 36)

As a believer in Christ I was tempted to ignore Marchman but I had to write this reply to encourage Christ Embassy members especially the 'children' in particular and true Christians of different denominations in general.

Now concerning Marchman, going through his previous threads on Nairaland and the titled thread on why he left Christ Embassy i concluded he was never a true member of Christ Embassy or a christian but a Wolf among the Sheep. No true Christian goes to the media to write lies against his biological family, local church or other churches no matter how offended he is. This is why Muslims are more United than Christians.

Now to counter some points he made which I quoted in bold. For example he typed "They tend to believe literally that everything answers to money

It is written in Ecclesiastes 10:19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
Yes money answers everything. You need to read publications and messages on seed faith. Am not ignorant of the fact that some of our leaders might be over zealous in trying to hit a target by tasking someone to give but never have i been forced by my leaders against my will to give.
Christ Embassy projects are of high quality and numerous in reaching the unsaved and inspiring right living and they aren't cheap. I believe Donnie and Joagbaje can assist with images of our numerous programmes and projects.

"You are also charged to give for Pastor Chris birthday

The trash you wrote up there could only be written by a selfish man because according to the following verse of scriptures:
Gal 6: 6-10 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. Be not deceived; God is not mocked : for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

The only time we are opportune to sow into Pastor Chris anointing is during his birthday which is just once in a year. Marchman pls tell me how else we can honour or communicate to our pastor?

"The church is obsessed with money. They do not mind how or where you get it"

Yea we are obsessed with money because of numerous projects that must be done before Jesus returns to rapture us. Why shouldn't we use money to serve God well now when it will be useless when we leave this earth? CE is interested in the job you do and ur financial abilities so your belief that we don't mind how we raise the money exist in your own imagination. I can't remember Jesus asking those Jews who were giving in the Temple where they got their money from. He didn't ask the widow too who gave her mites. Marchman u need to be cured of ur poverty mentality.

"Sin means nothing at Christ Embassy"

I don't know where you got this belief from because CE always frowns at any member that sins including an open rebuke. Some of our members that were caught in the act of fornication were excommuincated from the rest of the brethren and were told to sit at the back of the the church for each service till restitution. I ve witnessed this more then once. Scriptural readings from 1cor 5: 9-13 are read to the erring members.

Pastor Chris talks about sin, righteousness, heaven and hell but you don't know because you thought it's only Sunday services Pastor preaches to us. Pastor preaches to us everyday through Rhapsody of realities, tapes, cds, vcds, dvds, mp3 and software platforms.
When you lay much emphasis telling people not to sin that's when they will sin the more because it's the nature of man to sin when you tell him not to. Rom 7:15-20.

Saying Pastor Chris was accussed of fornication without any proof or evidence I won't bother to reply you on that.

"Pastor Chris is the orthodoxy"

According to 1st Cor 11:1 it says Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
So what's wrong if we always make reference to him and follow him?

You said "No one can challenge Pastor Chris." How can you challenge him? Where you the one that called him? He answers to the one that called him and only God shall reward or judge him not you.

You also said "He tries to change verse of scriptures by rewriting them?

You are filled with hatred because Pastor only lays emphasis on the original bible manuscripts which was written in Hebrew and Greek. How many study bibles have you read in your life? How many times have you even read your king James from back to back? Let your heart judge you.

As for your other rambling that I haven't countered I leave them for other Christ Embassy members to take care of.

Cc Joagbaje, Donnie, Gombs, Zionmade pls ur input is needed to encourage those children in Christ that might have gotten discouraged in serving God because of Marchman.

Braveryy:
my brother, is Deut 22: 5 in your Bible?

It says, A woman should not put on that which pertains to a man, neither should a man put on that which pertains to a woman, all that do this are abomination to God.

What is the meaning of the word "pertain"?