spartacus11:


Lithium taking over, since the big Boss are now moving to lithium, lead acid will now be cheaper for beginners like us to buy

Win win for everybody

Taking over is just for some peeps on this thread, as it stands over 99.9% still rocking their lead acid. The reasons tend from the pricing, availability, and of course lack of the knowledge of the technology.

mctfopt:



Oh yeah, or you may just buy from the manufacturer in China

https://frey.en.alibaba.com/product/62229295781-805170082/Lithium_Battery_Cell_100ah_Rechargeable_2500_Cycle_3_2_Voltage_Battery_Lithium_Ion_Lifepo4_Cell.html

Yup similar concept different branding

ojeysky:


Yup similar concept different branding

True

You know it boss!.

As of now, only one source has stock left and that at very steep prices

netotse:


So you are part of the people that have bought off all the batteries in the market ba?

earthrealm:

excellent, so did you install the diode?..and if yes..whats the specs of the diode.
i kinda feel you didnt install nada

Actually, I did. Not willing to willfully destroy a much beloved MN Classic 150. I'll post pictures later (typical makeshift stuff so don't laugh).

@Niyiomoiyunade I have tried this several times. It's still clearing the history.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Clear out of any setup pages.

Hold down the SETUP and SELECT buttons simultaneously till you hear a beep/auditory feedback.

The device should be factory reset after the beep.

Now you owe me two bottles of chilled Heinekein

Chai.... Even those that, in the past, mathematically and analytically proved, beyond reasonable doubt, that LeadAcid Battery is preferable HAS now gone Lithium.

Oh father, in this 2020, deliver us from all motivational speakers... It is well oooo

First you have to 'Unlock' your setup menu.

See this in your Setting # 64. Hold down SETUP until it enters setup. Use the UP Arrow key to navigate quickly to setting number 64. Press SELECT to enter the menu and then set to OFF using the UP or DOWN arrow. Press SELECT to commit your changes.

At this point you can clear out of the menus and then press down SETUP and SELECT till you hear a beep.

If you prefer menus you can use setting number 62 to factory reset.

See excerpt below. You MUST unlock setting number 64 before you are able to FACTORY RESET

ebocoms:
@Niyiomoiyunade I have tried this several times. It's still clearing the history.

Truly it was a struggle to the last day.

My friends on here pitched me huge 2v banks up to 2000Ah for significantly less than the cost of Lithium.

One deciding factor was that my company has a few Lithium installs under our belt, it is the cornerstone of our business success to use the products we sell so we have a wealth of real field experience and can provide valuable support to our customers.

In the end it was a happy accident as I ended up with a huge PV array - 19kw as part of the deal and not too crazy a cost.

A couple of pain points though;

1) Had to give up my beloved MorningStar CCs as they pulled support for PylonTech.


2) A lot of premium copper connectors, ferrules e.t.c i purchased for lead acid have now gone to waste.

3) PylonTech is a smart/managed battery - I understand that you cannot simply connect an inverter to the battery terminals and use - even if you make all settings for charge and discharge within safe tolerance. The PylonTech expects a keepalive signal from your inverter or control box else it switches off after a set interval. I have not seen this yet in practice but I went in with all the right tools to do it properly anyways. The 2 clients I installed for used an Axpert and Steca respectively so things were a lot simpler there.

4) Despite paying top dollar for 2 Victron Quattros (15kva & 8kva) and undrerstanding that Victron supports PylonTech, I found to my chagrin I had to purchase a Victron GX control device to sit between Inverter and Battery and CCs and Battery for everything to work. I had to return a VE.Can Victron CC purchased at a good price because only VE.Direct and VE.Bus Victron products are compatible.

With my huge array, quite a challenge integrating 4 CCs into one GX device - had to purchase an assortment of cables and USB hub to make things work.

5) All in all quite a bit of complexity to work through - what is needed is a lot more than just connect inverter, CCs and battery to bus bar. In my setup, the Inverter, CCs are slaves to the PylonTech BMS with the Venus GX device acting as governor for the relationship and communication.

If any device loses connection to the GX, it goes offline and may be cumbersome to restart. If the BMS faults out and shuts down the battery, nothing else will work till the GX device can start - remember GX requires battery and battery has gone off either you have another smaller independent dumb lead acid or Lithium battery to power the GX off of or you use mains supply to kickstart the inverter and battery.

In short a lot can go wrong that is just software and interface. You dont face all these challenges with Lead Acid.

In the end I was able to setup an entire working system with remote monitoring working alone over the course of two evenings - with this I became certain I was called to this profession indeed.

My back, upper arms and pocket still hurt though

mcTrinity:
Chai.... Even those that, in the past, mathematically and analytically proved, beyond reasonable doubt, that LeadAcid Battery is preferable HAS now gone Lithium.

Oh father, in this 2020, deliver us from all motivational speakers... It is well oooo

mctfopt:


Taking over is just for some peeps on this thread, as it stands over 99.9% still rocking their lead acid. The reasons tend from the pricing, availability, and of course lack of the knowledge of the technology.

Yeah Boss they are stil rocking lead Acid, i believe when their system is due for upgrade majority will go lithium

Typo! It's 24v/400amp.

Thanks for the info.

ojeysky:


For now the major performance I noticed is the ability to accept amps/power surges. For instance, my washing machine on startup does some few min of over 1.4kw draw (think it's the heater), my lead acid was unable to cope even when the battery is full but LFP takes it without stress. Capacity wise I have done some rough test but yet to do actual (getting bmv soon) but I don't expect much surprises as the 200A LFP serves the same load (or more) for similar duration that my 300A lead did at corresponding DOD.
For me the big deal in LFP performance will be whether it's capacity remains the same in 3 to 5 years time (after many cycles)


Do you mean as 48v/200A? with over 2 years of usage, are you loosing capacity on it yet? and at what DoD have you been maintaining.

That said, If I have opportunity to get more lithium, I will rather go DIY by procuring the cells, slamming a BMS on it. That way I am able to easily do periodic individual cell check(even though I know that's the work of the BMS) and will also save some cash. Found some good deals on AliExpress but shipping is the problem, if anyone knows a reliable china-nigeria freight forwarder please share.

Remember the discussion i had when i was installing my pylontechs, the bms inside alone made it worth it.
@Niyi how do the people with steca and axpert get the correct SOC from the pylontechs because z´that was the achilles heels till i had a cable from ICC which i control with ICC software

mcTrinity:
Chai.... Even those that, in the past, mathematically and analytically proved, beyond reasonable doubt, that LeadAcid Battery is preferable HAS now gone Lithium.

Oh father, in this 2020, deliver us from all motivational speakers... It is well oooo

Chai I remember one of my post where I was making a case for lead acid....but I can still say that if pylontech was the only route to LFP and considering its price tag, I will probably maintain with lead acid.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Truly it was a struggle to the last day.

My friends on here pitched me huge 2v banks up to 2000Ah for significantly less than the cost of Lithium.

The overall volume and weight of that thing at 48v will probably require a lottery to tow

In the end it was a happy accident as I ended up with a huge PV array - 19kw as part of the deal and not too crazy a cost.

O'boy see energy..... Bros you too much o

hisenjos:
Pylontech batteries with Axpert vmiii inverter. This Axpert talks to the pylontech via rs485 so settings are automatic. The Pylontechs will work with any inverter that allows you set bulk and float voltages. Each battery has a built in BMS that disconnects on the set voltage to protect the batteries.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/10433275_img20191015183039_jpegd4f9940d8c1a5f740428bd996615cba9

www.nairaland.com/attachments/10433276_img20191015182739_jpegf5cb90b9a81be1a90569945a94e20a17

See as battery be like amplifier, this pylontechs hand go meet u in future

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Truly it was a struggle to the last day.

My friends on here pitched me huge 2v banks up to 2000Ah for significantly less than the cost of Lithium.

One deciding factor was that my company has a few Lithium installs under our belt, it is the cornerstone of our business success to use the products we sell so we have a wealth of real field experience and can provide valuable support to our customers.

In the end it was a happy accident as I ended up with a huge PV array - 19kw as part of the deal and not too crazy a cost.

A couple of pain points though;

1) Had to give up my beloved MorningStar CCs as they pulled support for PylonTech.


2) A lot of premium copper connectors, ferrules e.t.c i purchased for lead acid have now gone to waste.

3) PylonTech is a smart/managed battery - I understand that you cannot simply connect an inverter to the battery terminals and use - even if you make all settings for charge and discharge within safe tolerance. The PylonTech expects a keepalive signal from your inverter or control box else it switches off after a set interval. I have not seen this yet in practice but I went in with all the right tools to do it properly anyways. The 2 clients I installed for used an Axpert and Steca respectively so things were a lot simpler there.

4) Despite paying top dollar for 2 Victron Quattros (15kva & 8kva) and undrerstanding that Victron supports PylonTech, I found to my chagrin I had to purchase a Victron GX control device to sit between Inverter and Battery and CCs and Battery for everything to work. I had to return a VE.Can Victron CC purchased at a good price because only VE.Direct and VE.Bus Victron products are compatible.

With my huge array, quite a challenge integrating 4 CCs into one GX device - had to purchase an assortment of cables and USB hub to make things work.

5) All in all quite a bit of complexity to work through - what is needed is a lot more than just connect inverter, CCs and battery to bus bar. In my setup, the Inverter, CCs are slaves to the PylonTech BMS with the Venus GX device acting as governor for the relationship and communication.

If any device loses connection to the GX, it goes offline and may be cumbersome to restart. If the BMS faults out and shuts down the battery, nothing else will work till the GX device can start - remember GX requires battery and battery has gone off either you have another smaller independent dumb lead acid or Lithium battery to power the GX off of or you use mains supply to kickstart the inverter and battery.

In short a lot can go wrong that is just software and interface. You dont face all these challenges with Lead Acid.

In the end I was able to setup an entire working system with remote monitoring working alone over the course of two evenings - with this I became certain I was called to this profession indeed.

My back, upper arms and pocket still hurt though

chaaaiiii, see all the hoops bossman here had to jump just to hv 24/7 electricity..
nigeria we hail theee

My Oga na so we see am o.

If I had the full picture upfront, I may not have gone ahead but I committed to the Pylon batteries when my Rolls Surrette supplier dissappointed and moved availability to April, all I had to makeup was the price difference.

Once delivered, they sat in a room for 2 weeks plus while I figured out what to do with the beast that I had purchased.

The PylonTech battery is quite an impressive beast though!

I forgot to mention - 2 reasons why MorningStar do not/no longer support PylonTech Lithium.

1) BMS needs a keep alive signal, MorningStar are yet to write this functionality into their CC firmware. I suspect they may do this eventually or release a GX type control box of their own.

2) BMS can randomly disconnect and shutdown the battery in case of a fault - MorningStar strictly discourage a battery disconnect while PV is still on. 99% chance this will blow up the CC especially since the kind of fault condition that could cause the BMS to shut down the battery is likelier to happen while the CC is making a lot of power from the PV array.

earthrealm:


chaaaiiii, see all the hoops bossman here had to jump just to hv 24/7 electricity..
nigeria we hail theee

mctfopt:


Taking over is just for some peeps on this thread, as it stands over 99.9% still rocking their lead acid. The reasons tend from the pricing, availability, and of course lack of the knowledge of the technology.

Believe me. If you consider the benefit, the years of faithful, near constant power delivery and the juice you get outta lithium and juxtapose it with what you get from lead acid chemistry (except lead carbon, I suppose), the price will not be a set back.

Besides the affordability of lithium is improving by the day. Thanks to Asian manufacturers. If it were to be only Pylontech that is in the market, lithium will still remain a pipe dream for many.

The Americans may give you quality at neck breaking prices, but the Asians give you more options of quality based on your pocket. The end game is they drive price down and eventually you get quality at par with what the Americans offer at affordable price.

ceaser:


Believe me. If you consider the benefit, the years of faithful, near constant power delivery and the juice you get outta lithium and juxtapose it with what you get from lead acid chemistry (except lead carbon, I suppose), the price will not be a set back.

Besides the affordability of lithium is improving by the day. Thanks to Asian manufacturers. If it were to be only Pylontech that is in the market, lithium will still remain a pipe dream for many.

The Americans may give you quality at neck breaking prices, but the Asians give you more options of quality based on your pocket. The end game is they drive price down and eventually you get quality at par with what the Americans offer at affordable price.

Yeah, I echo the same sentiments too. Lithium batteries is the future, special thanks to Chinese for making it possible for many to enjoy the benefits of this awesome battery technology without breaking the bank

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Truly it was a struggle to the last day.

My friends on here pitched me huge 2v banks up to 2000Ah for significantly less than the cost of Lithium.

One deciding factor was that my company has a few Lithium installs under our belt, it is the cornerstone of our business success to use the products we sell so we have a wealth of real field experience and can provide valuable support to our customers.

In the end it was a happy accident as I ended up with a huge PV array - 19kw as part of the deal and not too crazy a cost.

A couple of pain points though;

1) Had to give up my beloved MorningStar CCs as they pulled support for PylonTech.


2) A lot of premium copper connectors, ferrules e.t.c i purchased for lead acid have now gone to waste.

3) PylonTech is a smart/managed battery - I understand that you cannot simply connect an inverter to the battery terminals and use - even if you make all settings for charge and discharge within safe tolerance. The PylonTech expects a keepalive signal from your inverter or control box else it switches off after a set interval. I have not seen this yet in practice but I went in with all the right tools to do it properly anyways. The 2 clients I installed for used an Axpert and Steca respectively so things were a lot simpler there.

4) Despite paying top dollar for 2 Victron Quattros (15kva & 8kva) and undrerstanding that Victron supports PylonTech, I found to my chagrin I had to purchase a Victron GX control device to sit between Inverter and Battery and CCs and Battery for everything to work. I had to return a VE.Can Victron CC purchased at a good price because only VE.Direct and VE.Bus Victron products are compatible.

With my huge array, quite a challenge integrating 4 CCs into one GX device - had to purchase an assortment of cables and USB hub to make things work.

5) All in all quite a bit of complexity to work through - what is needed is a lot more than just connect inverter, CCs and battery to bus bar. In my setup, the Inverter, CCs are slaves to the PylonTech BMS with the Venus GX device acting as governor for the relationship and communication.

If any device loses connection to the GX, it goes offline and may be cumbersome to restart. If the BMS faults out and shuts down the battery, nothing else will work till the GX device can start - remember GX requires battery and battery has gone off either you have another smaller independent dumb lead acid or Lithium battery to power the GX off of or you use mains supply to kickstart the inverter and battery.

In short a lot can go wrong that is just software and interface. You dont face all these challenges with Lead Acid.

In the end I was able to setup an entire working system with remote monitoring working alone over the course of two evenings - with this I became certain I was called to this profession indeed.

My back, upper arms and pocket still hurt though

Welcome to the lithium fan club Niyi
Just as we chatted backdoor, I never knew it was that complicated and requires a Venus GX to use Victron inverters and CC with lithium batteries.
I will probably go with the blue products someday in the nearest future, but I am currently happy with MPP PIP 5048MK inverter (aka Axpert King) for now.
These inverters have direct support for pylonthech batteries out of the box (for models manufactured 2019 above)with a special Rj485 cable that plugs into the BMS port of the inverter/battery . It presets the charge/float voltage and other parameters according to how the battery BMS wants it and plays along. Basically its just a plug and play scenario
For the solar CC, again the inverter has support for 4000w/80A PV which I am currently making use of. The algorithms of the inverter CC may not be as complex as the standalone Morningstar, but hey, it gets the job done
Your 19Kw PV array is massive
Again, we dey learn work where you dey

Weldone

hancock:

Welcome to the lithium fan club Niyi
Just as we chatted backdoor, I never knew it was that complicated and requires a Venus GX to use Victron inverters and CC with lithium batteries.
I will probably go with the blue products someday in the nearest future, but I am currently happy with MPP PIP 5048MK inverter (aka Axpert King) for now.
These inverters have direct support for pylonthech batteries out of the box (for models manufactured 2019 above)with a special Rj485 cable that plugs into the BMS port of the inverter/battery . It presets the charge/float voltage and other parameters according to how the battery BMS wants it and plays along. Basically its just a plug and play scenario
For the solar CC, again the inverter has support for 4000w/80A PV which I am currently making use of. The algorithms of the inverter CC may not be as complex as the standalone Morningstar, but hey, it gets the job done
Your 19Kw PV array is massive
Again, we dey learn work where you dey

Weldone

It's actually also possible to make the rj45, just 4 of the 8 strings needs to be crimped. Meanwhile apart from monitoring what else does the ICC do for you in relation to your lithium performance?

As to the CC algorithm, some folks have made a patched version that makes things easier with LFP you may find the following helpful: http://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=4332

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Truly it was a struggle to the last day.

... - with this I became certain I was called to this profession indeed.

My back, upper arms and pocket still hurt though

Adventure of a lifetime. I'm truly impressed. Kudos!

Saipro:

Brand new
- open-box Victron Quattro 48/5000/70 (5kVA 48VDC) - ₦780,000
- Victron VE.Direct 375VA 48VDC inverter (no charger) - ₦60,000
- Victron BMV 702 (with shunt and cables) - ₦100,000
- Fangpusun 100/50 MPPT charge controller - ₦46,000
- Fangpusun display - ₦20,000
- EpSolar (Epever) 150V 60A MPPT - ₦130,000
- Midnite SPD 300V surge protector - ₦47,000
- Midnite MNPV8HV-DISCO 4X disconnect/combiner box - ₦360,000

Used for less than year (then retired) but in excellent cosmetic & working order
- Victron VE.Direct 375VA 48VDC inverter (no charger) - ₦40,000
- Victron Color Control GX - ₦150,000
- CyberPower CPS3500Pro inverter (3.5kVA 24VDC) - ₦100,000

Used a bit longer but in excellent working condition
- Victron MultiPlus 48/5000/70 inverter (5kVA 48VDC grid input not working) - ₦250,000
- my faithful PowerStar 3kW inverter; modified to enable the fan come on at lower temperatures - ₦80,000

WhatsApp/Call 080 3961 2147

Full discounts applied.
Thanks for the purchases

ojeysky:


It's actually also possible to make the rj45, just 4 of the 8 strings needs to be crimped. Meanwhile apart from monitoring were else does the ICC do for you in relation to your lithium performance?

As to the CC algorithm, some folks have made a patched version that makes things easier with LFP you may find the following helpful: http://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=4332

The ICC software is just a neat interface that provides you data from your solar system. They have also cleverly integrated with Lithium battery BMSs especially the Pylontech ones so you get a more accurate read outs for all necessary parameters for each of the bricks you have in the set up (see screenshots)
It comes installed with VNC viewer so you basically just open up the VNC app on your mobile phone or desktop and get real time info and also make changes on the inverter remotely as you wish

hancock:


The ICC software is just a neat interface that provides you data from your solar system. They have also cleverly integrated with Lithium battery BMSs especially the Pylontech ones so you get a more accurate read outs for all necessary parameters for each of the bricks you have in the set up (see screenshots)
It comes installed with VNC viewer so you basically just open up the VNC app on your mobile phone or desktop and get real time info and also make changes on the inverter remotely as you wish

Yeah I just wanted to know if you use it for something else aside datalog/monitoring. Some ICC users have used it for some switching controls based on SOC. ICC interface reporting is cool and quite graphic, I like the fact that inverter settings can be modified as well. Value for money they say

The way you guys analyse solar energy is heartbreaking to me. 19kw array? Are you running a cold room. Well thanks all so far for sharing. I have learnt a lot as
I started out running my old car battery (75ah)with a 150w panel and just run all lights on dc and sometimes tv via a modified inverter. But now i have upgraded to a 2.2kw array,a 60amp pmw, and a 24v/ 200ah setup. Setup doing really good with 50% dod.I now make cool money with my solar knowledge. Thanks to ceasar, niyi.....mctfop..,ojeysky,earthrealm and all.......you guy ignited the electrical spirit in me. THANK YOU ALL.

Please house I have 5kva inverter 24v not yet set it up
My load Watts is about 3000w
I need set it up for 24hr uninterrupted power supply come rain come shines.
What du I need for the set up?.Thanks in advance

Thanks very much for the steps @NiyiOmoIyunade, it worked.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
First you have to 'Unlock' your setup menu.

See this in your Setting # 64. Hold down SETUP until it enters setup. Use the UP Arrow key to navigate quickly to setting number 64. Press SELECT to enter the menu and then set to OFF using the UP or DOWN arrow. Press SELECT to commit your changes.

At this point you can clear out of the menus and then press down SETUP and SELECT till you hear a beep.

If you prefer menus you can use setting number 62 to factory reset.

See excerpt below. You MUST unlock setting number 64 before you are able to FACTORY RESET

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Brand new (sealed in box) MorningStar MPPT 60A for sale.

Price - 215K

Reason for sale - continuous upgrades.....

Contact - 0 8 0 8 1 1 4444 2

By an happy accident I find I now have 19kw of panels available as I migrated to Lithium. MorningStar does not play very well with my PylonTechs so I moved grudgingly to Victron CCs and GX device.

Already sold off 3 MorningStar units - this is the last one.

So this anti lithium man has gone lithium. I thought you will wait till 2021 . That's how you broke the heart of your girlfriend(lead acid).
Congrats bro