zeestone99:


Ojesky the man.this guy keeps falling in love with lithium. This your marriage strong o

My brother there is no turning back o....but my next upgrade should be the last for a long time before madam go vex with these my lithium expenses

I am setup as DVCC-Offgrid mode therefore all my loads are on the AC Out 1.

Infact the 5.5kva generator addition was an after thought so my people could sleep in peace knowing there was backup power as they could not believe we could now run 3 to 4 ACs overnight with this new battery bank. The Madam was skeptical about this new Litthium thingy and could not see how thesame number of batteries and energy storage capacity as I explained would now allow deeper discharges - we had done 3 years of lead acid together

Going 3 phase requires balancing loads across the house DBs - this was not a mean undertaking as we have large energy consumers that could easily hog one 5kva's output.

The answer to your question about the transfer case capabilities is an incredible one so I will answer and also quote the Victron manual verbatim below.

The AC Out 1 of the 15kva Quattro can supply a total of 165A or about 35kw continuous to power loads. The inverter will source 100A/23kw from either of AC In 1 or 2 (never combined) and if PowerAssist is turned on another 65A/12kw from the DC bus (battery or solar or DC feed).

In DVCC Offgrid mode when no mains or gen present you can run the AC output off battery or DC feed up to a max 12kw continuous (must temperature control the install site else derate the loads).

If you add Mains or Gen to the input side then you get up to a potential additional 100A/23kw to use - of course the generator or mains supply must be capable of delivering such output on 1 phase and remaining stable.

Even Victron themselves had to say that they achieved the impossible with their Multi and Quattro inverters.

In my case I can basically run like 16kw continuous off the Quattro output - 12kw sourced from battery and 4kw sourced from Genny.

You are very correct that the AC Out is capped at 50A and fed also from the 100A supply on the input side - AC Out 2 does not represent additional load capacity - just a way to manage loads.

Barezzi:
Very nice!
Unless i missed it, can you elaborate on the bolded? I suspect you'd have been better served with a 3 phase 5kva build .

A typical Quattro's second output is limited to 50A ac, around 10kw.
This means your heavy loads are at 10kw or lower. If higher, do you use assistants to start a Gen to Power Assist? I'm assuming your loads are split into Essential and Auxiliary loads.

I only have one saleable kidney left as it is

LTO upgrade would need me to sell that last kidney and probably a small family member join sef.

I would really love to explore LTO but unless I see a client to use it with or someone to take my PylonTech off my hands, I just have to make do with the Pylons.

They should go minimum of 10years at 70% DoD which is my worst case usage. They say 6,000 cycles at 80% but only give a 7 year warranty.

Right now I am simply recouping my RE investment day by day.

ceaser:


Bro, you never use LTO chemistry o. So gbabesky say you still dey on the journey. I can assure you that with DIY solar, the temptation to just push the limit a lil' more will keep nagging you.

I already elaborated on the reasons for 15kva single phase based on a Victron Quattro's robust load handling capabilities.

Now how did I do the house wiring? I changed nothing at the 3 Phase DBs except to introduce 200A Stanley Bus Bar distribution between the Inverter output and the DB loads. We then simply looped the 3 live phases L1, L2 and L3 together.

All the breakers and disconnects and load limiters are external to the arrangement.

Barezzi:
Very nice!
Unless i missed it, can you elaborate on the bolded? I suspect you'd have been better served with a 3 phase 5kva build .

A typical Quattro's second output is limited to 50A ac, around 10kw.
This means your heavy loads are at 10kw or lower. If higher, do you use assistants to start a Gen to Power Assist? I'm assuming your loads are split into Essential and Auxiliary loads.

Good morning Engineers.

I trust everyone is keeping good and staying safe at this moment in time.

It my first time posting here although have been a regular follower of this great thread.

I need technical support on a project we're  trying to design for a client. However, the Professor who happens to be an Electrical engineer is way too busy for us to sit down and make a realistic design for the client.

In view of the above predicament, we're approaching the deadline for submission which happens to be tomorrow.

We're to design a solar back up system for a supermarket cooling system.

Based on our load analysis, 600,000KVA Inverter System is required, so we break it down to  60,000KVA x 10 Inverters.

Regarding solar panel, we decided to utilize 400W x 1500panels = 600,000W

To save cost, the Professor is of the view that we should do away with batteries. Hence, we are to deploy 300KVA transformer and 300KVA Perkins Generator.

However, new ideas are welcome on the best realistic design, installation and maintenance.

Feedback did be appreciated.

I await response.

CC
NiyiOmoIyunade
zeestone99
Ojeysky
kiekie1
JUO
mctfopt

If you want to do away with batteries that means they do not mind only powering during the day?

SuleimanKano:
Good morning Engineers.

I trust everyone is keeping good and staying safe at this moment in time.

It my first time posting here although have been a regular follower of this great thread.

I need technical support on a project we're  trying to design for a client. However, the Professor who happens to be an Electrical engineer is way too busy for us to sit down and make a realistic design for the client.

In view of the above predicament, we're approaching the deadline for submission which happens to be tomorrow.

We're to design a solar back up system for a supermarket cooling system.

Based on our load analysis, 600,000KVA Inverter System is required, so we break it down to  60,000KVA x 10 Inverters.

Regarding solar panel, we decided to utilize 400W x 1500panels = 600,000W

To save cost, the Professor is of the view that we should do away with batteries. Hence, we are to deploy 300KVA transformer and 300KVA Perkins Generator.

However, new ideas are welcome on the best realistic design, installation and maintenance.

Feedback did be appreciated.

I await response.

CC
NiyiOmoIyunade
zeestone99
Ojeysky
kiekie1
JUO
mctfopt

ojesymsym:
If you want to do away with batteries that means they do not mind only powering during the day?

Yes. Usually the supermarket runs from 9am till 10pm.

What happens at night then.

SuleimanKano:
Yes. Usually the supermarket runs from 9am till 10pm.

ojesymsym:
What happens at night then.

The cooling system are turned off at night. The cooling system are meant for visitors only. It a large Shopping Mall.

Oh air conditioning cooling system. My first thoughts were on refrigerating.
Ok, one option may be to use sunny island variant of inverters or similar alternatives that accept high input solar voltages and not necessarily need batteries. It is a little more advanced design than Solar for normal homes.

SuleimanKano:
The cooling system are turned off at night. The cooling system are meant for visitors only. It a large Shopping Mall.

SuleimanKano:
Good morning Engineers.

We're to design a solar back up system for a supermarket cooling system.

Based on our load analysis, 600,000KVA Inverter System is required, so we break it down to  60,000KVA x 10 Inverters.

Regarding solar panel, we decided to utilize 400W x 1500panels = 600,000W

To save cost, the Professor is of the view that we should do away with batteries. Hence, we are to deploy 300KVA transformer and 300KVA Perkins Generator.

Air-conditioning of a super market requiring continuous load of 600,000kva are you sure about that figure or is this what is required cumulatively from 6am to 9pm?

ojeysky:


My brother there is no turning back o....but my next upgrade should be the last for a long time before madam go vex with these my lithium expenses

Hahaha na so we dey talk till we decide to test more things. This stuff is very intoxicating.

SuleimanKano:
Good morning Engineers.

I trust everyone is keeping good and staying safe at this moment in time.

It my first time posting here although have been a regular follower of this great thread.

I need technical support on a project we're  trying to design for a client. However, the Professor who happens to be an Electrical engineer is way too busy for us to sit down and make a realistic design for the client.

In view of the above predicament, we're approaching the deadline for submission which happens to be tomorrow.

We're to design a solar back up system for a supermarket cooling system.

Based on our load analysis, 600,000KVA Inverter System is required, so we break it down to  60,000KVA x 10 Inverters.

Regarding solar panel, we decided to utilize 400W x 1500panels = 600,000W

To save cost, the Professor is of the view that we should do away with batteries. Hence, we are to deploy 300KVA transformer and 300KVA Perkins Generator.

However, new ideas are welcome on the best realistic design, installation and maintenance.

Feedback did be appreciated.

I await response.

CC
NiyiOmoIyunade
zeestone99
Ojeysky
kiekie1
JUO
mctfopt

You need an ac coupled system.

This is an interesting project indeed. Looks like a good use case for an hybrid system - AC coupled till eveningish and DC or mains/genny backup till 10pm

But you need to double check the numbers first of all.

600,000Kva is humongous - perhaps you meant 600Kva or 600,000Va? That is more approachable.

Also think of the space required to mount 1,500 panels of 400w each? Each panel must be at least 2m by 1m - I doubt your average mall has that much surface area to use.

This is no mean undertaking - we are happy to collaborate with you - please do reach out per details on signature.

SuleimanKano:
Good morning Engineers.

I trust everyone is keeping good and staying safe at this moment in time.

It my first time posting here although have been a regular follower of this great thread.

I need technical support on a project we're  trying to design for a client. However, the Professor who happens to be an Electrical engineer is way too busy for us to sit down and make a realistic design for the client.

In view of the above predicament, we're approaching the deadline for submission which happens to be tomorrow.

We're to design a solar back up system for a supermarket cooling system.

Based on our load analysis, 600,000KVA Inverter System is required, so we break it down to  60,000KVA x 10 Inverters.

Regarding solar panel, we decided to utilize 400W x 1500panels = 600,000W

To save cost, the Professor is of the view that we should do away with batteries. Hence, we are to deploy 300KVA transformer and 300KVA Perkins Generator.

However, new ideas are welcome on the best realistic design, installation and maintenance.

Feedback did be appreciated.

I await response.

CC
NiyiOmoIyunade
zeestone99
Ojeysky
kiekie1
JUO
mctfopt

zeestone99:


You need an ac coupled system.

I agree with you.

SuleimanKano:
Good morning Engineers.

I trust everyone is keeping good and staying safe at this moment in time.

It my first time posting here although have been a regular follower of this great thread.

I need technical support on a project we're  trying to design for a client. However, the Professor who happens to be an Electrical engineer is way too busy for us to sit down and make a realistic design for the client.

this is a huge project, not really in the realm of diy, whoever designs and installs this setup, can go and rest for the remaining part of the year, this na 8 digit profit/comission job , the professor must really be a rich guy not to make out time for this kind of job
NiyiOmoIyunade would be the first name on my list, if this job was mine and am looking for a contractor to pull it off.

anyway back to the meat of the matter, am certain you mean 600kva, and not 600,000kva
your calculation of 600kw panel array is another pointer.

i hope a refrigration expert was involved in the design of the correct cooling requirement for the complex??
the panel calculation, i would increase by minimum of 50% to cater for cloudy days, even though i know the design involves, generators kicking in to complement, should the solar generation drop below the AC needs. each panel would be about 2.6sqm, so you are looking at over 3000sqm. this is over 8plots of land, ie 50ft by 100ft plot. unless your car park is going to be covered with solar panels, its going to be tough getting a shopping mall roof area to be this large in nigeria.

the diesel gens/phcn can then take over the cooling from sundown till 10pm.

am lazy to do the calculations, really curious to know the capacity & cost of lead acid battery and Lipo4 that would be ok for this project, should the owner consider it?. anybody got the spare time for us?

Edit: corrected error in size of panel

Interesting sunny day, did over 3x of my array capacity, funny enough i didn't achieve any record instantaneous hervest but the cumulative is fantastic!
#YesToRenewable

earthrealm:


am lazy to do the calculations, [b]really curious to know the capacity & cost of lead acid battery and Lipo4 [/b]that would be ok for this project, should the owner consider it?. anybody got the spare time for us?

Certainly a lead acid should not be on the list of batteries for such a project. LTO and Lifepo4 or any other lithium chemistry will full my list of options.

Ultimately this is a project for the pros and the recommendation of @NiyiOmoIyunade is in order. I hope he will keep us posted though (assuming it works out), just to learn about all the ingredients that finally cooked the soup.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
This is an interesting project indeed. Looks like a good use case for an hybrid system - AC coupled till eveningish and DC or mains/genny backup till 10pm

But you need to double check the numbers first of all.

600,000Kva is humongous - perhaps you meant 600Kva or 600,000Va? That is more approachable.

Also think of the space required to mount 1,500 panels of 400w each? Each panel must be at least 2m by 1m - I doubt your average mall has that much surface area to use.

This is no mean undertaking - we are happy to collaborate with you - please do reach out per details on signature.

That's a typo error from my end. It actually 600Kva. We plan to to utilize the roof top and large car parking space available at the Mall. From our analysis, we require 1k sqm and 3k sqm for the 1500 panels. I've PM You...

earthrealm:


this is a huge project, not really in the realm of diy, whoever designs and installs this setup, can go and rest for the remaining part of the year, this na 8 digit profit/comission job , the professor must really be a rich guy not to make out time for this kind of job
NiyiOmoIyunade would be the first name on my list, if this job was mine and am looking for a contractor to pull it off.

anyway back to the meat of the matter, am certain you mean 600kva, and not 600,000kva
your calculation of 600kw panel array is another pointer.

i hope a refrigration expert was involved in the design of the correct cooling requirement for the complex??
the panel calculation, i would increase by minimum of 50% to cater for cloudy days, even though i know the design involves, generators kicking in to complement, should the solar generation drop below the AC needs. each panel would be about 3.6sqm, so you are looking at over 5000sqm. this is over 12plots of land, ie 50ft by 100ft plot. unless your car park is going to be covered with solar panels, its going to be tough getting a shopping mall roof area to be this large in nigeria.

the diesel gens/phcn can then take over the cooling from sundown till 10pm.

am lazy to do the calculations, really curious to know the capacity & cost of lead acid battery and Lipo4 that would be ok for this project, should the owner consider it?. anybody got the spare time for us?

Yes, 600kw. Indeed the Professor is a rich guy. He was the pioneer Engineer for the solar project at BUK Kano. PM with the calculations. When we get the green light for the project, be rest assured we're flying you to Kano. Thank you.

ojeysky:


Certainly a lead acid should not be on the list of batteries for such a project. LTO and Lifepo4 or any other lithium chemistry will full my list of options.

Ultimately this is a project for the pros and the recommendation of @NiyiOmoIyunade is in order. I hope he will keep us posted though (assuming it works out), just to learn about all the ingredients that finally cooked the soup.

yes o, @NiyiOmoIyunade if he handles the job, and the owner doesnt mind, we would love to see some of the calculations.

while LIPO4 owuld be a first choice, should battries be considered. 2v 1000ah batts exist, and higher AH, may exists if one digs deep. lining upto 90 units of 2v 2000ah on a 180v inverter would create a super massive bank, with the beauty of all of them being in series, even on 48v inverter, 24 units would be an impressive bank

perhaps a design that would have only 30 to 50% of the ACs function on battery after sundown.
a cost-performance comparism simulation could be carried out to see the best option. batteryless, battery 30%, 50% etc

ojeysky:
Interesting sunny day, did over 3x of my array capacity, funny enough i didn't achieve any record instantaneous hervest but the cumulative is fantastic!
#YesToRenewable

Truly a good day for solar. Got 24.3KWh even though my lithium batteries stopped charging at about 2pm. Last Tuesday was my historic best at 27.9KWh. My array is 7.44KW, Flame Solar (320x12 and 300x12).

Saipro:
I have another set of Victron inverters for sale. Currently available are:
Brand new
- open-box Victron Quattro 48/5000/70 (5kVA 48VDC) - ₦680,000 (latest processor 2658***) 4 units available
- Midnite SPD 300V surge protector - ₦60,000 new arrivals

WhatsApp/Call O8O 3961 2147

Still available

ojeysky:


Certainly a lead acid should not be on the list of batteries for such a project. LTO and Lifepo4 or any other lithium chemistry will full my list of options.

Ultimately this is a project for the pros and the recommendation of @NiyiOmoIyunade is in order. I hope he will keep us posted though (assuming it works out), just to learn about all the ingredients that finally cooked the soup.

If I second this will it it be too much recommendation for one person?

For real, he is the one I'll think of too. It's a huge project that deserves someone that knows how it goes.

earthrealm:


yes o, @NiyiOmoIyunade if he handles the job, and the owner doesnt mind, we would love to see some of the calculations.

while LIPO4 owuld be a first choice, should battries be considered. 2v 1000ah batts exist, and higher AH, may exists if one digs deep. lining upto 90 units of 2v 2000ah on a 180v inverter would create a super massive bank, with the beauty of all of them being in series, even on 48v inverter, 24 units would be an impressive bank

GWL have some 3.2v 1000AH Lifepo4 cells, I have not seen a 2000AH Lifepo4 but am sure it exists somewhere. I will certainly pick LFP over a 2v gel/AGM 1000AH/2000AH

I have 2x 48v 16s Daly Lifepo4 BMS for sale. 80A maximum charging and discharging current. I will give them out for 45k each or nearest offer.

ojeysky:


GWL have some 3.2v 1000AH Lifepo4 cells, I have not seen a 2000AH Lifepo4 but am sure it exists somewhere. I will certainly pick LFP over a 2v gel/AGM 1000AH/2000AH

It's good to think of LFP 3.2v 1000ah or 2000ah, but you're gonna need one hell of a BMS to charge the big bank that results, maybe a starting point of 300A BMS of any configuration that is adopted.

I think that using smaller banks of maybe 200 amps battery in any config of 48v to 180v each with its own BMS, then connecting them in parallel will be better.

EV vehicles use battery packs in 48v or 60v nominal and a number of this are connected in parallel to form their banks, I assume. I may be wrong though as I am yet to confirm that. But I know that the Tesla car battery packs that some show on you tube are in 60v nominal.

ceaser:


It's good to think of LFP 3.2v 1000ah or 2000ah, but you're gonna need one hell of a BMS to charge the big bank that results, maybe a starting point of 300A BMS of any configuration that is adopted.

I think that using smaller banks of maybe 200 amps battery in any config of 48v to 180v each with its own BMS, then connecting them in parallel will be better.

EV vehicles use battery packs in 48v or 60v nominal and a number of this are connected in parallel to form their banks, I assume. I may be wrong though as I am yet to confirm that. But I know that the Tesla car battery packs that some show on you tube are in 60v nominal.

Sure that's the idea, there are BMSes with such capacity ANT is rated for 320A, if you modify the default cables that comes with it one should be able to pull up to 250A to 300A off it but there are other high capacity BMS in the bactrium pool. You certainly don't want to use small banks in several parallel for such a humongous set-up

WE BUY DEAD/SCRAP BATTERIES!!!

We also buy off scrap/dead batteries from any state to Lagos(T&C applies) .

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If outside Lagos state , send the scrap batteries to your nearby Lagos park & get your payment alert immediately after confirmatory remarks from me with the transport company manager / secretary or driver .

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godspeed:


Ok sir. I will continue with the 12v setup.
My energy needs are not really that high.

With all due respect, I don't think you actually needed help with optimizing your 24v system rather you just wanted to get sympathetic cheer in going back to your 12v system. That in itself is not bad but let's not abuse free consultation that is done here.

I saw Oga Niyi and some seasoned RE enthusiasts here advice you about how to optimize your 24v systems, yet you kept repeating questions already answered....As soon as you got a comment nudging you to return to 12v, you nodded in unison...... I personally don't find such attitude wholesome for this type of platform.

If your mind is already made up as to a certain step, come out straight, let people know where you need help with your choice and get assistance on it. Don't make those sharing priceless knowledge for free look funny.

My 2cents.

cheers.