Attached connection was done on a friends 24v inverter. Is this even possible? Two 12voltscbatteriescin series and one of the series battery connected to another 12volt battery in parallel

I told him he is playing with fire but he claims he had been using it line that for months.

I could take a picture but I attached a sketch

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omotoda:
Attached connection was done on a friends 24v inverter. Is this even possible? Two 12voltscbatteriescin series and one of the series battery connected to another 12volt battery in parallel

I told him he is playing with fire but he claims he had been using it line that for months.

I could take a picture but I attached a sketch

I don't think he's playing with fire. He only succeeded in derating his battery bank to essentially 2 batteries worth. That's why it's not advisable cos of the money for the extra one battery presently doing nothing would have been used somewhere else.

omotoda:
Attached connection was done on a friends 24v inverter. Is this even possible? Two 12voltscbatteriescin series and one of the series battery connected to another 12volt battery in parallel

I told him he is playing with fire but he claims he had been using it line that for months.

I could take a picture but I attached a sketch

So if the battery is 100AH, then it means he has a 200AH 12v connected in series to a 100AH 12v. In that case, the fire he is playing is the one that will turn all his investment on the battery into a waste in near future.

ojeysky:


Yours time schedule is digital mine is manual but they serve the same purpose. So you don't have a Sonoff basic on the fridge?

Nope. Remote switching is not really required. The fridge is basically for cold beverages on sale, so daytime cooling is sufficient.

The freezer handles other frozen items on sale.

ojeysky:


So if the battery is 100AH, then it means he has a 200AH 12v connected in series to a 100AH 12v. In that case, the fire he is playing is the one that will turn all his investment on the battery into a waste in near future.

No sir.100ah 24 volts.Then one of the 12 volts from the two in series with a 12v 100ah in parallel!

[quote author=omotoda post=93038416]

No sir.100ah 24 volts.Then one of the 12 volts from the two 100ah in series with a 12v 100ah[ in parallel./quote]

ceaser:


Nope. Remote switching is not really required. The fridge is basically for cold beverages on sale, so daytime cooling is sufficient.

The freezer handles other frozen items on sale.

Okay, in my case I have a power guzzling freezer for now and occasionally need to even shut it down during daytime when sun is not smiling and battery level is not looking promising for the night

omotoda:


No sir.100ah 24 volts.Then one of the 12 volts from the two in series with a 12v 100ah in parallel!

When you parallel a 12v 100AH with another 12v you get 12v 200AH

Is there anyone with Sonoff basic R3 or a R2 flashed with tasmota firmware for sale?

ojeysky:


When you parallel a 12v 100AH with another 12v you get 12v 200AH

Oga Ojesky,you don't get what the guy did oo.

He has a 24 volts inverter.He connect two 100ah ,12 volts battery in series to the inverter making ,100 ah 24volts.

He now connected a single 100ah 12 volt to one of the 12 volts of the series connection in.parallel.

It was strange to me too but he claims he has been using it line that for over 9 months.

I even spoke to his technician whobvlaims he had done several like that with no issues.

omotoda:


Oga Ojesky,you don't get what the guy did oo.

He has a 24 volts inverter.He connect two 100ah ,12 volts battery in series to the inverter making ,100 ah 24volts.

He now connected a single 100ah 12 volt to one of the 12 volts of the series connection in.parallel.

It was strange to me too but he claims he has been using it line that for over 9 months.

I even spoke to his technician whobvlaims he had done several like that with no issues.

I understood it quite well my brother, if you have a 100AH 24v setup and then add another 100AH 12v in parallel to one of the 12v in the 24v series set-up, what you basically have created is 12v 200AH connected in series with 12v 100AH.

Yes it will work but it will kill the battery, especially the single 12v 100AH in the series connection as there is no longer capacity balance. Do you get it now Bro?

Na so Zeestone99, we won't be stagnant if the parameters are right, we go port. It's the way of the world, "move with the times or get stuck".

Remember the days of PWM charge controllers and all we could achieve was having lots of strings 2 x 5, 2 x 9 configurations of solar panels to achieve high charging current. Then came MPPT charge controllers and higher Voc panels and we started talking about 3 x 3, 4 x 3, 12 x 6 config etc. When technology moves, we move. The trend is your friend as borrowed from another parlance.

zeestone99:


We will still port to this 810w. Technology moves, we move

ojeysky:


I understood it quite well my brother, if you have a 100AH 24v setup and then add another 100AH 12v in parallel to one of the 12v in the 24v series set-up, what you basically have credited is 12v 200AH connected in series with 12v 100AH.

Yes it will work but it will kill the battery, especially the single 12v 100AH in the series connection as there is no longer capacity balance. Do you get it now Bro?

I believe the "capacity balance" is a myth. My personal observation is that batteries in parallel will charge and discharge according to their capacities. Because, current, like water will take the path of least resistance, batteries in parallel will charge and discharge according to their need based on internal resistance. This may be contrary to theoretical stipulations, but it is what I have observed over about a decade of interactions with batteries and solar. Of course batteries in series are a different beast. They need to be sufficiently similar in age, chemistry, capacity etc.

adrusa:


I believe the "capacity balance" is a myth. My personal observation is that batteries in parallel will charge and discharge according to their capacities. Because, current, like water will take the path of least resistance, batteries in parallel will charge and discharge according to their need based on internal resistance. This may be contrary to theoretical stipulations, but it is what I have observed over about a decade of interactions with batteries and solar. Of course batteries in series are a different beast. They need to be sufficiently similar in age, chemistry, capacity etc.

You seem to disagree with your starting statement but then seem to agree with me in your conclusion (the bold) which is the capacity mismatch in series that I referred, did I miss something?

For clarity, no issues with paralleling cells of same capacity (and you can even be good with different capacities in parallel) which is how my current LFP bank is configured (105x2)x 8s

It's like using 200AH battery in series with 100AH battery.
The later will get full faster and will overcharge if the starting point is same.
The later will discharge faster (and eventually below minimum) if starting point is same.
The 100AH will eventually die faster than expected except the inverter's low voltage disconnect is very high.

Edit: funnily, I did this when one of my 4 batteries died. I put 2 weak ones in parallel and the strong one alone. Then at inverter's low voltage alarm, the single one reads about 11.5V and the double reads about 10.5V. My coulomb counter shows 20% more energy usage while charging than when I was using a balanced setup.

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chris81964:

Yes the AC sucks. Only cools the room on cold nights. During the day it struggles to keep the room at 27. My window non inverter AC does a better job
The batteries are 5 kwh. I have 4.3 kwh in PV. Thank you for watching and commenting

That's wrong. Have someone check the unit. Ambient temperature matters (and it shouldn't be installed on the sunny side wall when avoidable) but not cooling the room beyond 27°C? Abysmal

chris81964:

My brother they are blowing my mind. I retired my Victron and Schneider products. This inverter and battery are IP65 rated. The inverter has a 120 amp AC charge and a 10 kw surge.

Your war with their copyright and copyleft issues has come to a conclusion. I'm investigating two other wonderful Chinese brands though they're still kinda like clones of some basic design elsewhere but nothing as blatant as Fangpusun

Oshomo12:

Yingli panels should be good, though i haven't tried my hands on any yet(still looking at it with one eye).

Yingli aren't just good, they're great!
I have both Canadian solar and Yingli installed at home. What's more, the earlier poly JoySolar panels I have are still firing at nearly nameplate 6 years down the line. The mono ones are a disappointment.

kadorzy:

Stick with 3s4p setup.
The FP 150|70A has a max VOC of 145V. Doing 4x250 in series will exceed this limit.

Depends on rated VoC of each panel, distance and cabling to the CC. And tolerance of the CC

chris81964:

If that is what it takes then I will replace mine.

Disable power saving mode, if you haven't

Israelicc:
As much as I like your analysis Sir, I beg to differ on the installation part. In practice, this 810w panel will reduce the time it takes to do an install. It will also reduce the number of mid and end clamps needed for an install. You are right with the handling part for dangerous terrains but if best and safe practice using harnesses or a MEWP is used, then there is no need to worry.

Let's also not forget that it's advancements like this that have generally brought down the cost of solar panels world wide. Imagine for once that we still had only the 100w and 150w panels, you would have needed a truck load of panels to do installs in excess of 5kwp.

I haven't seen the name plate yet but I also presume that the Voc and Imp of the 810w would be significantly higher than the 380w panels, which give us new design possibilities too. I'm just saying..

Number of connections (translate as failure points) would definitely reduce. VoC would double. Possibly ImP too (depending on cell arrangement).

NiyiOmoIyunade:
So in my installs, the usual average yield is at least 4 times the PV nameplate on a good day with ideal weather and sufficient energy demand.

I consider a regular daily yield 3 times the mounted PV nameplate to be unimpressive or average at best.

I kept quiet on this as I had so far not been able to get my large PV array to yield above 3 times the nameplate even though I believe it was pretty well optimised - attributed this to insufficient energy demand from AC loads and refilling depleted battery bank.

Well in the last few days I have had a very full and busy house and this evening saw good yield results from my 19.5kw PV array.

I look forward to a day when the sun and my consumption align and I can gross 100kwh daily yield

On wonderful days, my Canadian solar panels can do 5× nameplate. Routinely do 3.5 - 4× when allowed. Due to my low consumption, I rarely do more than 2× (massively oversized array which has paid of these past few months of horribly low insolation).

Having said that, Yingli often have no problem with 4 - 5× nameplate on regular days. And mine are even 250W poly, not mono. The 300W routinely does 4× (not sure why there's disparity in performance) as I set VoC and other parameters to be as similar as possible.

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Hello to the gurus in the house, I have 2.4kva mercury modified inverter, with 220ah tubular bat3 * 2 and 300watts solar panel *2 with 40a cc. My question is can use it to power small 120ltrs thermocool freezer during the day only.
Your advise is highly appreciated.

abbeymighty:
Hello to the gurus in the house, I have 2.4kva mercury modified inverter, with 220ah tubular bat3 * 2 and 300watts solar panel *2 with 40a cc. My question is can use it to power small 120ltrs thermocool freezer during the day only.
Your advise is highly appreciated.

Assuming there are no other significant load sure, it will serve and you should still have some juice left in the battery by night

ojeysky:


You seem to disagree with your starting statement but then seem to agree with me in your conclusion (the bold) which is the capacity mismatch in series that I referred, did I miss something?

For clarity, no issues with paralleling cells of same capacity (and you can even be good with different capacities in parallel) which is how my current LFP bank is configured (105x2)x 8s

My point is that batteries in parallel configuration are less susceptible to problem of mismatch than batteries in series, in my experience. I will not put batteries of varying age or capacity in series, but I regularly do that with parallel and I have never observed any penalty in battery longevity.

adrusa:


My point is that batteries in parallel configuration are less susceptible to problem of mismatch than batteries in series, in my experience. I will not put batteries of varying age or capacity in series, but I regularly do that with parallel and I have never observed any penalty in battery longevity.

So we are saying the same thing then, i hope the information is entirely helpful to the op that asked the question

abbeymighty:
Hello to the gurus in the house, I have 2.4kva mercury modified inverter, with 220ah tubular bat3 * 2 and 300watts solar panel *2 with 40a cc. My question is can use it to power small 120ltrs thermocool freezer during the day only.
Your advise is highly appreciated.

There might be a problem with the bolded.