g1:

i used to do that like you said, my brand of atheism used to be live and let live but, then anytime i tell a christian that i am an atheist he then feels the need to tell me about the bible verse that god says the fool that says in his heart there is no god,

I understand how you feel. Many people say things which in their worldview seems to help them feel cool about themselves. Some of these things might be offensive either way - whether a religious person to an atheist or an atheist to a religious person: one is not better than the other and such exchanges don't help a good outcome. But the response is what we should be careful to observe, because it does not help any which way to retort with deliberate invectives . . just as it seems in this next part of your quote:

why then does that christian feel i dont have the right to insult him and telll him that it is him/her and his god that are fools?

thanks for your replies

A 'right' to insult others does not say very much about the person who does the insults - trust me, I know (and have been guilty many times). That is not what I would consider a "right" anyways, but again I should not make my own opinion a matter of an overbearing point upon you.

But do have a good evening and take things cool.

Traugott:

Deal, Viaro. Deal. Thanks!

Good man! Sometime this week will pass the list over. Cheers.

viaro:

I understand how you feel. Many people say things which in their worldview seems to help them feel cool about themselves. Some of these things might be offensive either way - whether a religious person to an atheist or an atheist to a religious person: one is not better than the other and such exchanges don't help a good outcome. But the response is what we should be careful to observe, because it does not help any which way to retort with deliberate invectives . . just as it seems in this next part of your quote:

A 'right' to insult others does not say very much about the person who does the insults - trust me, I know (and have been guilty many times). That is not what I would consider a "right" anyways, but again I should not make my own opinion a matter of an overbearing point upon you.

But do have a good evening and take things cool.

i am feeling you my brother, dont worry i promise to go back to my former type of atheism (live and let live) unless someone calls me out,
for the sake of friendship and reconsiliation i leave u with the following goodwill message: may u, the other christians and muslims on nairaland remain blessed, peaceout

uplawal:

Already got visa to hell even before he converted to christianity cos He was never a muslim before,now hes payed more for more charcoal for his space in hellfire

how are you sure you are not hell bound yourself? visa to hell ko visa to fire ni

Congratulations Omar. Pls refuse to be a religionist and walk in love with all men.

g1:

for the sake of friendship and reconsiliation i leave u with the following goodwill message: may u, the other christians and muslims on nairaland remain blessed, peaceout

Thanks, man! And I wish you much, much more.

hubreality:

Congratulations Omar. Pls refuse to be a religionist and walk in love with all men.

Was he ever that "religionist" you are referring to? How?

Many more who were to convert to Islam because of material gains are begining to see the light.

^^^ Was that guy in this OP ever a Muslim? How?

Please answer me--as the thread's author. Thanks

Read the story by clicking the link or do u need a translator to understand simple english write up?

I probably need the latter "offer".

Let me repeat my question in a more simple way: Are Nation of Islam followers Muslims? If yes, how are they? Expatiate. Thanks

muhsin:

I probably need the latter "offer".

Let me repeat my question in a more simple way: Are Nation of Islam followers Muslims? If yes, how are they? Expatiate. Thanks

@Mushin! Lol! You are simply unbelieveable. Read the text to understand or has your heart been hardened? Haba!

muhsin:

Are Nation of Islam followers Muslims? If yes, how are they?

What does it take to be a muslim? And how are folks at Nation of Islam not muslim?

Hmm. . .

You might be a new member on NL, but here and there we thoroughly discussed those misguided fellows called Nation of Islam followers. Hence many, I literally mean many non-Muslims believe (some already know) that they (The Nation Of Islam) NOT Muslims. Not at all.

For further information regarding my prior words, read the following OPs and see what Muslims and non-Muslims had to say:

What is Nation of Islam

Drop A Tribute For Your Muslim Brother, Mikail Jackson 'mj'

In the second thread, read specifically tpia's reply, i.e. #35th reply.

viaro:

What does it take to be a muslim? And how are folks at Nation of Islam not muslim?

Islam and the so-called "Nation of Islam" are two different religion. Muslims consider this group to be just one of many cults using the name of Islam for their own gain. The only thing common between them is the jargon, the language used by both. "The Nation of Islam" is a misnomer; this religion should be called Farrakhanism, after the name of its propagator, Louis Farrakhan. Islam and Farrakhanism differ in many fundamental ways. For example, Farrakhan followers believe in racism and that the "black man" was the original man and therefore superior, while in Islam there is no racism and everyone is considered equal in the sight of God (i.e. Allah, the Creator), the only difference being in one piety. There are many theological examples that show the "Nation of Islam"'s teachings have nothing to do with true Islam.

(One of the replies I made from one of the above links).

@muhsin, maybe you didn't try to look at my questions before rushing a reproduction of one of your answers.

Here again are my two questions, if you may:

(a) What does it take to be a muslim?

(b) And how are folks at Nation of Islam not muslim?

And thanks, I read tpia's succinct comment as referred: 'Nation of Islam shouldnt be confused with general Islam', she said. That's great, but that does not tell us anything about my two questions, no? Not even in light of what is meant by "general Islam".

However, I should be quite amused by your penultimate comments:

muhsin:

For example, Farrakhan followers believe in racism and that the "black man" was the original man and therefore superior, while in Islam there is no racism and everyone is considered equal in the sight of God (i.e. Allah, the Creator), the only difference being in one piety.

Eh, I don't see how the discrimination you decry could be upheld in the face of current (and very real) Muslim hatred of the Jews. Care to show how that could be contained in light of what you're noting above?

I'm actually in a much hurry; got exam tomorrow. . .ought to have been reading. I only closed my books, papers, etc an hour ago.

Any way, I see no much points to go into detail. Thus I'll just give you succinct answers.

viaro:

@muhsin, maybe you didn't try to look at my questions before rushing a reproduction of one of your answers.

Here again are my two questions, if you may:

(a) What does it take to be a muslim?

(b) And how are folks at Nation of Islam not muslim?

FIRST: As ardent Muslims, we cannot promote a demagogue who has intentionally attempted to tarnish the veracity of the Islamic civilization and way of life by denouncing the sheer monotheism we profess in God (or Allah in the Arabic language). In Farrakhan's newspaper THE FINAL CALL he states: "We believe that Allah (God) appeared in the Person of Master W. Fard Muhammad, July, 1930; the long-awaited "MESSIAH" of the Christians and the "Mahdi" of the Muslims." This belief of Farrakhan and his followers is in direct conflict with the Qur'an (our Holy Book). In Islam, we do not believe that God will manifest Himself in the person of any man or woman. That is why God sent the Prophets and Messengers to instruct the people onto the right path. Since it is unbefitting of the Creator to lower himself to the station of the created. And if He would do such a thing, as appearing in the person of a man, He know that people would worship the person in lieu of Himself, The Creator of all. Thus, again, we have the Prophets and the Messengers sent by The Creator, instead of appearing in the person of a man, to call the people to the worship of Him, alone. In one of the final chapters of our noble Qur'an, God has stated: "Say: God is one. God is self-subsisting. He begets not; nor is He begotten. And there is none compared to Him." Hence, we cannot accept Farrakhan because he is promoting lies about the essential building blocks of our beloved way of life, ISLAM.

SECOND: As ardent Muslims, we cannot empathize with Farrakhan because he has challenged the rank of the greatest man on earth, The Prophet Muhammad (570 A.D. - 632 A.D.) the founder of our beloved religion, ISLAM, [/b]more than 1400 years ago. [b]Louis Farrakhan claims to be a prophet. In Islam we believe that the founder of our religion, theology, civilization and way of life, The Prophet Muhammad, is the final prophet to mankind. Any Muslim who defy this second pillar of faith cease to be among us. The Prophet Muhammad said in his last speech before his death in 632 A.D. in Mecca, Saudi Arabia: "O People, No Prophet or Messenger will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind two things, the Qur'an and my example, if you follow these you will never go astray."

THIRD: As African Americans loyal to our race, our independence movement, and being well read, well traveled as we are, there is evidence that certain race up-lift organizations among our people are bent on exploiting and manipulating us for selfish interest and the interest of our oppressors. There is evidence that the Nation of Islam is one of these organizations, along with the NAACP and others. We cannot forget how the Nation of Islam was behind the assassination of Malcolm X (1965). Nor can we forget the NAACP was behind the deportation of our hero Marcus Garvey (1927) and the political alienation of Martin Luther King, Jr. (1968).

I think that piece is more than enough (because one among those belief will mark one's faith null) to realize the truth about dichotomy between Nation of Islam and Muslims.
(Again from one of my replies there.)

viaro:

Eh, I don't see how the discrimination you decry could be upheld in the face of current (and very real) Muslim hatred of the Jews. Care to show how that could be contained in light of what you're noting above?

Qur'an clearly mentions that we are all created the same (am sorry, can't recall the verse verbatim now). And hatred of the Jews arises in response to their pathological animus of Muslims irrespective of your race. That is so apparent that I didn't even imagine one like you to bring that as an example. Cheers

@muhsin,

Thank you for your reasoned answers. I would not like to keep you from gaining much towards your exams, so I don't know if I should just let this pass and wait another time. . or draw you ought on many issues that show up in your response.

With recourse to the former suggestion, I should just leave it here until when you might have much more time to hand for a discussion. Success in your exams.

@Mushin. wat exactly is ur point? ar u trying 2 say no muslim can convert 2 xianity? i can give u several examples, on daily basis.

@Viaro,

I kinda of feel I can spend one more hour here. We can therefore continue. Beside, thanks for the good hope.

BTW, I remember that verse:

[center]
"O Mankind! Most certainly, it is We (God almighty) who have Created you all from a single (pair) of a male and a female. And it is we who have made you into nations and tribes, that ye may recognise each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily, the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is (He who is) the most righteous of you." (49:13)[/center]

ayusman16:

@Mushin. wat exactly is your point? ar u trying 2 say no muslim can convert 2 xianity? i can give u several examples, on daily basis.

You had me smiling: what are you reading for? I suppose to get meaning, huh? Then how did you come to that. . .? How?

For sure I know many Muslims convert to other religion as do also many are converting to the (Islam) religion. Vice versa.

BTW, the name is not Mushin (local government's name in Lagos) but Muhsin, meaning Doer of Good in Arabic language.

am really sorry bro. didnt mean 2 call u dat.

OK.

muhsin:

@Viaro,

I kinda of feel I can spend one more hour here. We can therefore continue. Beside, thanks for the good hope.

Well, sorry I didn't see that much earlier. Anyways, I should not be tedious to you - so concentrate and ace those exams.

So be it,I pray he holds on to faith

Exams are eventually postponed to Friday 8:30-10:30 and 10:30-12:30 respectively.

muhsin:



Exams are eventually postponed to Friday 8:30-10:30 and 10:30-12:30 respectively.

Are you studying for a degree in Terrorism?

muhsin:

Qur'an clearly mentions that we are all created the same (am sorry, can't recall the verse verbatim now). And hatred of the Jews arises in response to their pathological animus of Muslims irrespective of your race. That is so apparent that I didn't even imagine one like you to bring that as an example. Cheers

This is nonsense.

To be sure, I consider many actions of the Israeli government to be repugnant to natural justice, equity and good conscience. But[b] how can the actions of a government justify hatred for an entire race?[/b] The argument often used in support of this is that the Israeli people support their government. The vacuity of this argument is clear even before you start to analyse it. The ruling party in Israel was not necessarily elected by the majority. There are peace activists in Israel who campaign daily against Israel's settlement activities and other atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank as well as their land grab in East Jerusalem. There are political parties in Israel whose policies favour Palestinian demands. And "Jew" does not equal "Israeli".

Besides, I think speaking of Jews' animus against Muslims either shows poor comprehension of the Middle East or is a deliberate act of mendacity. I am not aware that Jews hate Moslems in Nigeria. There are issues of land in the Middle East, not necessarily religion. Israel's actions have affected Palestinian Christians and non-believers as much as Moslems. This last festivity season the Iranian FA emailed out New Year wishes to all its counterparts worldwide and someone "mistakenly" included the Israeli FA! The Israelis responded calmly, wishing the Iranians the same. But hell broke loose in the Iranian FA and people were fired. Whose is pathologically hating? What has football got to do with it? What we have is Moslem hatred for Jews not Jewish "pathological animus of Muslims irrespective of your race".

If there is an Iranian chatting on Nairaland and an Israeli logs on, I am sure the Iranian would log out immediately. There can be no justification for this sort of hatred of an entire race. Is it okay for me to hate Sudanese Arab Muslims because of the atrocities of the Sudanese government against my fellow blacks first in Southern Sudan and then in Darfur? When Muslims use "oppression" as justification for terrorism, they forget that black people have been the most put upon in recent history. Does that make it alright for us to hate whites and Arabs or seek to plant bombs in shopping malls?

oh yeah.

MyJoe:

This is nonsense.

To be sure, I consider many actions of the Israeli government to be repugnant to natural justice, equity and good conscience. But[b] how can the actions of a government justify hatred for an entire race?[/b] The argument often used in support of this is that the Israeli people support their government. The vacuity of this argument is clear even before you start to analyse it. The ruling party in Israel was not necessarily elected by the majority. There are peace activists in Israel who campaign daily against Israel's settlement activities and other atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank as well as their land grab in East Jerusalem. There are political parties in Israel whose policies favour Palestinian demands. And "Jew" does not equal "Israeli".

Besides, I think speaking of Jews' animus against Muslims either shows poor comprehension of the Middle East or is a deliberate act of mendacity. I am not aware that Jews hate Moslems in Nigeria. There are issues of land in the Middle East, not necessarily religion. Israel's actions have affected Palestinian Christians and non-believers as much as Moslems. This last festivity season the Iranian FA emailed out New Year wishes to all its counterparts worldwide and someone "mistakenly" included the Israeli FA! The Israelis responded calmly, wishing the Iranians the same. But hell broke loose in the Iranian FA and people were fired. Whose is pathologically hating? What has football got to do with it? What we have is Moslem hatred for Jews not Jewish "pathological animus of Muslims irrespective of your race".

If there is an Iranian chatting on Nairaland and an Israeli logs on, I am sure the Iranian would log out immediately. There can be no justification for this sort of hatred of an entire race. Is it okay for me to hate Sudanese Arab Muslims because of the atrocities of the Sudanese government against my fellow blacks first in Southern Sudan and then in Darfur? When Muslims use "oppression" as justification for terrorism, they forget that black people have been the most put upon in recent history. Does that make it alright for us to hate whites and Arabs or seek to plant bombs in shopping malls?

Right.

Hey Goog. Howdy?

Cool, bro. You are wanted in the Mayumi thread. Things are a bit slow there.