Alhaji Ghali Umar Na`Abba was Speaker of the House of Representatives between 1999 and 2003 on the platform of the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP.

He joined the ruling All Progressives Congress, APC just before the 2015 General Elections and is presently a member of the party’s Board of Trustees, BoT.

In this interview monitored on the African Independent Television, AIT Focus on Nigeria programme, he speaks on the clamour for Nigeria’srestructuring and other crucial issues. TEMIDAYO AKINSUYI who monitored the session brings the excerpts:

What do you think is the way forward in the settlement of internal disputes in APC?

In this respect, credit must be given to the PDP. When I was in the House of Representatives, and at least for two years, from 1999 to 2001, we used to have caucus meetings of the party every Monday; and given the tension then between the executive and the legislature, these caucus meetings were very helpful in solving certain problems. If not for those caucus meetings, the tensions would have been higher and it was only in 2001 when a new chairman of the party, who is the current minister of agriculture, (Chief Audu Ogbeh) came on board that those caucus meetings became obliterated because the president (Chief Olusegun Obasanjo) didn’t really like those meetings. He didn’t like to be challenged. Under that kind of arrangement, senior party members are given the opportunity to discuss governmental affairs, to challenge government policies and such. I believe that it is very good for the system because some of these presidents because of their military background and other idiosyncrasies don’t like to be challenged.

Did these meetings help to stave off some of those attempts to remove you?

In spite of the caucus meetings, the attempts to have me impeached as speaker were ongoing. It was an ongoing project from the time I became speaker to the time I left the House of Representatives, but I never allowed those attempts to cloud my objectivity and the sad thing about the existing situation is that the party that is ruling today is, as a senior member of the party, the last time I attended any caucus meeting or Board of Trustees meeting was in February 2016 and that was one year five months ago! Which means that there is no synergy within the party, there is a disconnect within the party.

Is that a breakdown of the system in the party?

The system is breaking down because government doesn’t feel obliged to be accountable to the party that brought it to power whereas at the same time they are demanding accountability from all institutions of government. It is a contradiction. Anybody who is elected must be accountable, and that is the reason I believe they don’t like the caucus meetings because they give senior party members the opportunity to advance, give their opinion and to even mingle with senior party members like the president which they ordinarily would not have an opportunity to meet.

Is this not the reason we are now having controversies over the budget and confirmation of Ibrahim Magu as chairman of the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission?

All these things revolve around the philosophy of separation of powers. The legislature has no right to propose appropriation, only the president is empowered to initiate appropriation, and the constitution asks the president to submit estimates to the legislature. What normally happens is that the legislature has a Majority Leader who is in charge of all the business of the legislature, being the leader of the party in power.

Normally, when the appropriation is received, the Majority Leader has the responsibility of preparing the bill on behalf of the executive because once estimates are in the legislature, the executive cannot do anything. So since they are from the same party and it is expected that the appropriation would have been discussed before then, it is the duty of the leader to prepare a bill and present to the larger House whether it is the Senate or the House. The legislature is supposed to prescribe the way money is spent by the executive, period! But over time, opinions are being formed; some are of the view that the legislature has the power to decrease the amount proposed by the executive but cannot increase, some will say that you can increase but you can also decrease and all this is very, very uncomfortable because the constitution is clear.

The spirit of the Constitution is that both the legislature and executive are working for the people. So, what are the best possible means for them to work together? Because if each of them should insist on its power, nothing will go on. So, the expectation is that before they commence the appropriation process, the executive or the president must call the party, must call the legislature and also, other stakeholders, whether it is on zonal basis or otherwise so that what should be in the budget should be discussed.

What are the priorities of the party? What the party promised the people during the campaign. All of these things should be discussed, and we used to do these things during our caucus meetings from 1999 to 2001.

In fact, there was a time a committee was set up headed by former Vice-President Alex Ekwueme to discuss with us on the possibility of having certain projects in the budget; that the legislators wanted to see in the budget and the possibility of deferring some projects for a supplementary budget which would come in September 2001. He came with us, discussed with us and we accepted.

Indeed, nobody knew about this until now that I am saying it. This is what we call preventive diplomacy; we do things without anybody knowing because it was not necessary. And there was another time during the caucus meetings because we had conflicts over certain issues but the legislature and the executive were asked to correct the Constitution and each one of the institutions were asked to present to the caucus what they viewed to be their position. We did it, and the president appointed a team under the Attorney General, they did their own, and we did our own, we presented to the caucus, and certain agreements were reached, and I think it was healthy for the system. But today, even interventions, there is nobody to do it.

What were the intrigues that shadowed your re-election quest?

The night before the primary election some of the delegates came and said that the state governor had asked that they should be rounded up and some of them were promised money, machines, and cloth so that they don’t vote for me. There was collusion between the president and my governor, and therefore they wanted me to arrange so that they could be taken somewhere.

What we did that night was to arrange for them to sleep in Katsina. I was Speaker, and this was happening to me. They slept in Katsina and around 7.00 a.m. they returned to Kano and went straight to the venue. The election was to begin around 11.00 o’clock, and suddenly we discovered that the state government had abducted the chairman of the panel sent from Abuja to supervise the primary. They went on to declare that election in my constituency will not take place because there was a security situation which was false. Around 2.00 p.m. an SSS assistant director based in Kano but from Ogun State came to me and said ‘sir, I have heard what is being arranged against you, and as long as I am in Kano, nobody can do that to you.’

He told me to give him time to go and look for that chairman, wherever he is, and bring him out. I thanked him, and he left. Around 6.00 p.m. he came back and told me that he had located the guy in the Government House and that I should arrange for women dress for him so that he can go and bring him out! We got the women dress for him, and he left, and around 8.00 p.m. he came back and told me that he had taken the man out. As at that time the SSS man advised that the election should not take place until after midnight and the election started by 2.00 a.m. and finished around 4.30 a.m. This tells you the extent to which certain governors could go.

How can we manage the calls for restructuring?

People are calling for restructuring because there is a perception that this system is not working; that there is no justice in the system. We must have a system that is healthy, and unless we have a system that is healthy, this call for restructuring will continue and I personally I am in favour of some of it.

What aspect?

More power should be devolved to the states and this I believe will help the system especially as it pertains to agriculture.

Do you think political parties in the country have done or are doing enough to promote, preserve and project democratic ideals?
Our political parties have definitely not done enough to promote, preserve and project democratic ideals. This, no doubt, has to do with some of the first set of political office-holders we got in 1999. Today, the only role the political parties play is that of being mere platforms for contesting elections. The parties do not play their role of educating their members. Successive governments do not carry the parties along in the formulation of policies. In fact, the manifestoes of the parties are no longer advertised when campaigns are going on. This, no doubt, is due to the high level of personalization and godfatherism in politics. The worst thing is that there is almost no internal democracy in the parties. Governors have particularly taken over the parties in their states and pocket them. Therefore, important reforms with regard to our political parties are needed in our political system, particularly in the area of internal democracy, the lack of which is threatening the stability of the country.
It is common knowledge that state governors appropriate political parties to themselves. Most of our political parties have decided to make the governors leaders at the state level, while presidents are the leaders at the national level, thereby rendering the parties’ executive committees almost useless. By so doing, the governors and presidents use these positions with relish in their quest to dominate the political space. The consequence is that these governors have transformed the political parties into a fourth factor of production, along with land, labor and capital. In other words, the political parties have become capital with which political power and money are acquired and accumulated. The political parties thus appropriated, are being used to generate undue political power for the governors and presidents. Today, because of this pervasive evil and diabolical phenomenon, politics is effectively taken away from the people. This state of affairs is realised through the refusal of the governors to allow free and fair elections into the executive committees of the parties in the wards, local governments and states, take place during congresses. Rather, they recruit into these executive committees, through fiat, people who would do whatever the governors want, thereby effectively making them agents of the governors.
When elections approach, it is from this category of people that delegates that will elect aspirants to become candidates of the parties are selected. These delegates will only elect the aspirants that the governors instruct them to elect, often without regard to the track record of the aspirants. Through this unwholesome means, the governor in a particular state determines who gets elected into all institutions of governance. The growth of our political parties and our democracy has been impeded in this manner. Today, if it were possible to see our political parties and political system physically, they will appear like dwarfs, because their growth has been hindered. In a democracy, which is a social system, there must be unity, coherence and harmony between all parts of the whole system.
It is supposed to be a dynamic system like a caravan in which all the travelers are linked together in the manner of big and small parts of a machine, working together towards the same purpose and aim. The function and meaning of every part is according to the position it occupies in this organic whole. Every part helps in the proper functioning of other parts in this system of mutual relationships. Any kind of failure or deviation in the functioning of any of the parts is sufficient to retard, or throw the whole system out of harmony. The asphyxiation of internal democracy, through the deviation of the rules of engagement, has had a profoundly negative effect on our socio-economic and political system, thereby throwing the system out of harmony.
In this endeavour, sycophancy becomes the main qualification for recruitment into political offices. Competition, which remains the best tool for the recruitment of political leaders, is thus jettisoned. The incentive to excel on the part of the contestants, competitors; is therefore eliminated, with the intellect becoming a casualty. No nation develops without the application of its intellectual resources. The net effect of this syndrome is the dearth of qualitative leadership at many levels of governance, the stagnation of our economy with serious unemployment levels, and the stultification of the political system. The whole social system is in a state of inertia; all these are interrelated and are a direct result of lack of internal democracy.
Even lack of attendance in our legislative houses can be traced to lack of internal democracy. Insurgencies, militancy, kidnapping and assorted crimes are all fall outs of this phenomenon. The effect is very pervasive and reform is very necessary if we are to get things right.

http://leaders.ng/disconnect-within-apc-naabba/

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APC was built on deceit and by deceitful people.... So it's always bound to have issues....

they have run out of propaganda to dish out to some gullible Nigerians, the silly daura bast*rd son of a thousand wh*re mothers will crumble the useless party.

Stupid fools with their drama. It's always been clear that d only unifying factor of the APC was to upstage and take out the undeserving Southern minority in power and ensure the 'almighty' North replaced him. Beyond that, the whole Nigerian contraption can go to blazes.

See the goats that benefitted from PDP but couldn't even stay d course cos they lacked any sense of ideology now he's being nostalgic. I'm just sorely disgusted honestly.

Brother Umar Ghalli Nabba there is nothing like disconnect. Use another words. The party has no structured foundation. It was built "at the eleventh hour" without proper planning. A party built on self interest and false ideology won't stand. There can be no peace within.

Na wa oooh...God help us

We don't refer to apc as a party over here

Just a cacophony of apes with loud noise

APC is falling down falling down while Buhari is in his sick bed in London.... Am not surprised at all because APC was just formed to boot Jonathan out of office, they never had any plan for Nigerians other than dish out propagandas against Jonathan's government. Now is time for them to perform they can't because the party is an association of past criminals. Am waiting for 2019 to do the needful if only PDP will present credible candidates like Dakwambo vs Peter Obi.

APC.....

When it is not attacking and blaming GEJ and PDP

It is internally-destroying itself with its in-fighting, nepotism, bad-bloodism and evil manipulation..

Its disintegration is just so obvious..