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Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? - Religion (11) - Nairaland

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by truthislight: 10:58am On Dec 09, 2012
firestar: Interesting Topic. So. . . which IS the ONLY TRUE RELIGION? I've noticed this question have been ignored. . .?


you have been here in this forum for some time now.
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by truthislight: 11:04am On Dec 09, 2012
dwonder: Jehovah’s Witnesses

Definition: The worldwide Christian society of people who actively bear witness regarding Jehovah God and his purposes affecting mankind. They base their beliefs solely on the Bible.

What beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses set them apart as different from other religions?

(1) Bible: Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the entire Bible is the inspired Word of God, and instead of adhering to a creed based on human tradition, they hold to the Bible as the standard for all their beliefs.

(2) God: They worship Jehovah as the only true God and freely speak to others about him and his loving purposes toward mankind. Anyone who publicly witnesses about Jehovah is usually identified as belonging to the one group—“Jehovah’s Witnesses.”

(3) Jesus Christ: They believe, not that Jesus Christ is part of a Trinity, but that, as the Bible says, he is the Son of God, the first of God’s creations; that he had a prehuman existence and that his life was transferred from heaven to the womb of a virgin, Mary; that his perfect human life laid down in sacrifice makes possible salvation to eternal life for those who exercise faith; that Christ is actively ruling as King, with God-given authority over all the earth since 1914.

(4) God’s Kingdom: They believe that God’s Kingdom is the only hope for mankind; that it is a real government; that it will soon destroy the present wicked system of things, including all human governments, and that it will produce a new system in which righteousness will prevail.

(5) Heavenly life: They believe that 144,000 spirit-anointed Christians will share with Christ in his heavenly Kingdom, ruling as kings with him. They do not believe that heaven is the reward for everyone who is “good.”

(6) The earth: They believe that God’s original purpose for the earth will be fulfilled; that the earth will be completely populated by worshipers of Jehovah and that these will be able to enjoy eternal life in human perfection; that even the dead will be raised to an opportunity to share in these blessings.

(7) Death: They believe that the dead are conscious of absolutely nothing; that they are experiencing neither pain nor pleasure in some spirit realm; that they do not exist except in God’s memory, so hope for their future life lies in a resurrection from the dead.

(cool Last days: They believe that we are living now, since 1914, in the last days of this wicked system of things; that some who saw the events of 1914 will also see the complete destruction of the present wicked world; that lovers of righteousness will survive into a cleansed earth.

(9) Separate from the world: They earnestly endeavor to be no part of the world, as Jesus said would be true of his followers. They show genuine Christian love for their neighbors, but they do not share in the politics or the wars of any nation. They provide for the material needs of their families but shun the world’s avid pursuit of material things and personal fame and its excessive indulgence in pleasure.

(10) Apply Bible counsel: They believe that it is important to apply the counsel of God’s Word in everyday life now—at home, in school, in business, in their congregation. Regardless of a person’s past way of life, he may become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses if he abandons practices condemned by God’s Word and applies its godly counsel. But if anyone thereafter makes a practice of adultery, fornication, homosexuality, drug abuse, drunkenness, lying, or stealing, he will be disfellowshipped from the organization.

(The above list briefly states some outstanding beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses but by no means all the points on which their beliefs are different from those of other groups

it is on old topic like this that you come to know what a person really is.
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by truthislight: 12:42pm On Dec 09, 2012
MyJoe:

I, on my part, will not be surprised if you don’t reply me, since JWs tend to wax eloquent when demolishing stuff like Trinity (which is not rooted in the Bible) but when some unrehearsed real issues are raised, they cop out, labelling the other person as an “opposer” cast in the mould of the Pharisees. Anyway, if you want PROOF of anything I say here, just ask and I will supply them in lorry loads.

Some will say the JWs are the ones always peddling “long laborious doctrinal disagreements”. How, for instance, do you explain someone insisting Jesus was killed on a tree rather than a cross? Such a minor thing!


Coming from a JW…



It is true Witnesses refuse to kill their neighbours in war, which is commendable. Many of them have also refused to betray their brothers. But, you see, it doesn’t end there. For one thing, fighting in war is not always a bad thing. In fact, it is sometimes the right thing to do. I, for instance, am totally against violence. But I do recognise, like the non-violent George Orwell also did, that the reason I sleep peacefully on my bed at night is because someone stands outside ready to do violence on my behalf. Do you know what would have happened if brave men and women had not offered up their lives to stop the Third Reich? Hitler would have taken over the world (God forbid!) and (1) all the Jews and Slavs in the world would have been exterminated (2) All the blacks in the world would have been sent to labour camps (3) All homosexuals, the mentally ill and other “impurities” would have been exterminated (4) All the JWs in the world would have been sent to labour camps.

But the above would mean nothing to you. You believe it was Jehovah who stopped the Third Reich so your preaching work can continue, not the people of the world led by the UK, the US and Russia. It appears you Witnesses live in a world of your own, following your perverse interpretation of “you are no part of the world.” Which is why a Witness almost invariably manifests a childlike refusal to deal appropriately with the complexities of the world around him. Pain, disease and misgovernance are of Satan’s world – no need to do anything since Armageddon, which is around the corner, will end it all. So everybody, forward march to Armageddon! A Witness will never speak out against injustice except when it is directly targeted at his preaching work. But you know the result of this, friend? Injustice within your Organisation is also not dealt with!

On the matter of love, it is not only Witnesses that show love. In fact, they are behind some religious groups I know in the matter of love. I will not go into details about that but if you want to explore that subject further, let me know.


This is another blunder you Witnesses make. Your assumption is based primarily on your door-to-door activity. Think: does the use of this specific preaching method prove that this is the only true Christian organization, while other groups who use other methods to reach people with their message are not Christians? Are they less effective than the Witnesses? And do you know there is no evidence that the first century Christians used this preaching method?

The hard facts available (ask me, and I will supply them) is that quite a number of Christian groups are growing in number, many of them even much faster than Jehovah's Witnesses. It is your Watchtower publications that are giving you the FALSE impression that other Christian denominations and sects are declining in numbers, that the "waters" of "Babylon the Great" is "drying up." (Rev. 16:12 and 17:15) Nothing could be falser.
It is true that the majority of the Christian denominations have been declining in the Western countries, but this also holds true in the case of Jehovah's Witnesses in that part of the world. However, due to developments in certain parts of the world, there has been a tremendous increase of Christians in the world as a whole since the century that ended a decade ago. Again, this applies to the JW as well.


Having devoted a good deal of my time to studying the religions, I am aware of several churches that sanction erring members. Some methods are bizarre, others are humane and reflect the kind of love Christ taught. Shunning, the method used by the Witnesses is the harshest I have come across. It lacks human face and it saddens me that human beings who claim to represent God conceived it. (I took some time to study the life and times of the particular WT President who invented it and wasn’t surprised at all.) And I will not let you put a gloss on it here, so I will attempt to present it the way it really works. For I heard of a man who committed suicide after he was disfellowshipped and made to face shunning for smoking. And many have spoken of being denied love by family members. Meanwhile, these policies are not applied consistently, but that is a different matter. I will have your readers know that it is not only those who involve themselves in fornication and co that face this treatment, as you will have them believe here. Questioning the teachings of the Watchtower Society, for instance, is a no-no that will see you being accused of apostatising and lead to shunning. Please permit me to ask you a question: when you go preaching from house to house, do you tell potential recruits, and newer ones in your midst, that once recruited they can’t leave the Organisation? Ok, let me modify that – actually they can leave. But do you tell them that that means that if their kids are Witnesses they will be shunned by such kids and denied their natural right to filial love? Do new recruits know that anyone who leaves the Organisation will be seen by Witnesses, including his former friends, as worse than the most despicable dog?


I think it does mean that they are false prophets.


Add And someone who says what God did not send him to say in the name of God. Jer 23:21 says: “I did not send the prophets, yet they themselves ran. I did not speak to them, yet they themselves prophesied.

This is the old masthead of Awake!:
"Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away."
The Awake! masthead now reads:
"Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things."

Creator’s promise? 1914? Now, honestly, do you still think you are not false prophets?


With respect, sir, the above is scurrilous nonsense! None of the virgins stood up and declared that the Master had come as your Organisation has done since it was founded. In fact, your Organisation was founded because the world was to end in 1914. Most of you don’t even know this. I borrowed your WT Library from a friend and installed it on my PC. I note that publications before 1950 are not there, so most of you are blissfully ignorant of a lot of things concerning Watchtower Jehovism. Even offensive articles after 1950 are removed from this “comprehensive” Library. If Watchtower were a state, it would be twice as closed as North Korea and ten times as secretive.


Are you seriously saying that nations did not rise against nations until 1914? I don’t think even you will dare say that. Is there a biblical basis for associating anything with this date, then, or do you just believe it because someone told you it is so?


Are you really separate from what you call “false religion”? Are you aware of your Organisation’s alliance with a prominent church ministry a few years ago? Do also know your Organisations’ alliance with political powers? Perhaps it is okay by you for the leadership of your religion to preach water and drink wine? (I am deliberately being vague because I doubt you are able to handle these matters. I know that for someone who is smart, hints are all required. On the other hand, if someone is not smart, anything you tell them, plain or vague, is useless. Whatever you choose to believe in is your business, but seeing your eloquence and how it might inveigle meek children of God who may have been misguided into believing that the truth about God is found in one single place and are honestly searching for it on this forum, I am typing to present some of the facts as they are. You are welcome to counter them. The Witnesses are good, very good. Which is not surprising considering all those practice and rehearsals at your meetings, where presentation, dialogue, logic, and refutation are drilled into the preacher (called "publisher"wink for use in the field. Put a trained anybody against a novice in any field, and the result of foreknown. That, and not any “truth”, is why your field workers often seem able to demolish any arguments put forth by people of other Christian denominations. I would hope you drop your JW goggles while reading what I am writing, but of course, that is too much to hope for whenever one is dealing with anyone high on the narcotic called religion.)


Can't say much on this now, except that being the best organised religious group on earth (which you are) does not remotely mean being the uniquely "true religion". Your "unity" comes at a great prize - if I lay them bare here, I am sure most reasonable people would want nothing to do with your kind of "unity" which is really uniformity. There is evidence that the chaos you see in Christendom today was there in the first century. Bickering is normal among humans.

MyJoe:
I borrowed your WT Library from a friend and installed it on my PC. I note that publications before 1950 are not there, so most of you are blissfully ignorant of a lot of things concerning Watchtower Jehovism. Even offensive articles after 1950 are removed from this “comprehensive” Library.
i can still recall a discussion with you were you said that "your friend a JW let you lay your hands on something you should not have layed your hands on"
when i said that it was a "CD wt library" you denied it, but see you here saying it yourself with your own words.

How true then can one take your utterances?
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by truthislight: 1:47pm On Dec 09, 2012
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by truthislight: 2:01pm On Dec 09, 2012
RWilliams: Not sure how to quote an excerpt from another blogger on this forum, help please?




after quoting his comment from the quote icon below his comment
just ensure to cut the exact post of the posters comment and insert in his up and down quote like illustrated below.
See eg:

[quote author=RWilliams]

in side likes this

[/quote ]
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by truthislight: 6:11pm On Dec 09, 2012
true2god: I need a sincere and baptized JW to ansa this:

The following questions were asked b4 u got baptized:

(1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

(2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses (not as a xtain as they were first and presently called) in a ssociation with God's spirit-directed organization (not HOLY SPIRIT but watchtower organization)?

My JW friends can u see how watchtower (your deceitful organization) has technically removed the Holy Spirit from the baptism/salvation arrangent and replaced it with God's spirit directed organization-A.K.A watchtower (instead of the Holy Spirit)?

And Jesus commanded them saying, ''Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit''.

I knew many lost JW will still go ahead and belive some of this false teaching coming from the Watchtower elders who are bent on twisting the Bible to deceive the gullible public. Please flee JEHOVAH WITNESS for ur sake. They r wolves who came in sheep clothing at ur door step (ignorant JW who neva really understang what going behind watchttower curtain)




hahaha. Lol.

Trinity has finish this one.
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by Ampeaceful(f): 9:10am On Jan 10, 2013
Nestle: I don't have any thing again JWs, but i have a question. Why is it that JWs don't like praying b/4 preaching?
hav u ever bothered askin them when they r ryt there @ur doorpost?
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by true2god: 1:41pm On Jan 10, 2013
truthislight:

hahaha. Lol.

Trinity has finish this one.
Pls get busy and spend less time on nairaland. Enjoy ur week.
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by truthislight: 4:51pm On Jan 10, 2013
true2god: Pls get busy and spend less time on nairaland. Enjoy ur week.

this was how you have been lying all over the place in the past but when you were called to defend the bible today you turned ignorant and cant quote the bible.

Yes, people like me should leave NL so that people like you that thrive in ignorance will have a field day in darkness.

You should be ashamed of your self.
Rut.
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by Yooguyz: 6:06pm On Jan 10, 2013
truthislight:

this were how you lied over the place in the past but when you were called to defend the bible today you turned ignorant and cant quote the bible.

Yes, people like me should leave NL so that people like you that thrive in ignorance will have a field day in darkness.

You should be ashamed of your self.
Rut.
brodas please be calm it doesn't have to degenerate to this
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by kokolet007(f): 7:32am On Jan 11, 2013
This is a very old thread since 2005......bt one of the best! Right now am now an unbaptised publisher! Which am so blessed to serve jehovah God until he said its finally over!

2 Likes

Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by Ampeaceful(f): 10:44am On Jan 11, 2013
Am happy 4 u...keep it up Jehovah wil reward u abundantly...
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by MostHigh: 11:22am On Jan 11, 2013
Bobbyaf

How can yashua the son of joseph be the farther?

Then who rules during the kingsom age?

pls do not preach wrong doctrine Yashua is the son if you live your life like him then you will see the farther surely.

isa 9 refers to the kingdom age pls not and the government shall be upon his shoulders, just like david a king priest melchizedek monarch priest same thing
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by MostHigh: 11:31am On Jan 11, 2013
you remember what the bible says

Hbr 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the middle of them.

Why all this interdinominational wahala?

Who has put mankind on this broad dangerouse road

Live the way of the jew in your private meditations for your master yashua son of joseph is a jew. John 4:22 salvation is of the jew


Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the (Jew) first, and also to the Greek.

So which one una come be now jew or gentile?

make una check am now when una wan start to live the way of the master in all ways no joke ooo!


nothing stops you from living in the kingdom now but mark my words you cannot sneak into the kingdom, is it at that time you will learn to live as a jew? check am now we say Isreal reborn, can she be governed by any other law apart from the bible

why go yeah after all these pharasees each one gloryfying himself having his own banner and agenda

If it was yams and oil and beans that was being tithed would they not have been forced to share the food to the poor else it rots?

But here we see a systems that worships mammon paper money yes oooo!

The harlot sits upon many waters and she has many children
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by fuye101: 1:42pm On Feb 08, 2013
Nice n beautiful explaination uchetobi n vchlady.
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by Pygru: 11:40pm On Aug 13, 2013
trisha: I have come across so many religions but I think Jehovah's Witnesses stick to the bible. What do you guys think?
Really?
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by Nobody: 1:58am On Aug 14, 2013
waz born a jw ......but stop attending, but i'll still give them credit
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by Yooguyz: 6:09pm On Aug 26, 2013
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by bolakale30(m): 8:28am On Aug 30, 2013
Every Religion has a theme, Islam claims theirs is Peace... Christianity believes theirs is love.... But need I tell u it's all false, Let's take the JW for example, once they are enlisted(pardon my use of words, couldn't think of a milder synonym), they shun their relatives who don't share the same faith even if they christians with different denomination, could this be love ? (I owe the inspiration to the last phrase to Opa Williams "Night of a Thousand life", sue me not plagiarism). As if that one no reach, once u are a shunned ex-member, u are completely ostracized. The best example of reconciliation unto love matter couldn't be better than the story of the prodigal son, but then (on a sarcastic note) that part could have been missing in the Jehovah witnesses NWT bible....




Last Bullet: Religion is a fraud but it must be maintained for the masses(na im still be the opium wey dem dey drink)
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by MyJoe: 2:03pm On Oct 27, 2013
truthislight:


i can still recall a discussion with you were you said that "your friend a JW let you lay your hands on something you should not have layed your hands on"
when i said that it was a "CD wt library" you denied it, but see you here saying it yourself with your own words.

How true then can one take your utterances?
Despite strong evocations to the contrary, I remain advised that the “truthislight” handle belongs to a human rather than a bot.

While only a bot would normally exhibit such spectacular want of ability to recall correctly, cogitate or parse, one must make some allowance for the religious fool splashing about the pool of lies in a wretched undertaking to discredit a Nairalander and defend his Jehovah.

And what utterance have I made here that requires your taking them as true rather than easy verification?
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by truthislight: 3:33pm On Oct 27, 2013
MyJoe:
Despite strong evocations to the contrary, I remain advised that the “truthislight” handle belongs to a human rather than a bot.

While only a bot would normally exhibit such spectacular want of ability to recall correctly, cogitate or parse, one must make some allowance for the religious fool splashing about the pool of lies in a wretched undertaking to discredit a Nairalander and defend his Jehovah.

And what utterance have I made here that requires your taking them as true rather than easy verification?

Hehehehe grin

what else can one expect from your like, other than such ^.

What you get out of a can is a function of the content of the can.

Though the truth is bitter to some.

Have a nice day.
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by Pygru: 4:30pm On Oct 27, 2013
Do you want to trust your eternal soul to the teachings of several men headquartered in Brooklyn, New York who claim to be the directors of God's organization on earth? Do you?


Eternity is a long time to be wrong.
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by MyJoe: 7:06pm On Oct 27, 2013
truthislight:

Hehehehe grin

what else can one expect from your like, other than such ^.

What you get out of a can is a function of the content of the can.

Though the truth is bitter to some.

Have a nice day.
Very good you knew what to expect - at least, you claim to. Now go ahead and prove you weren't lying for Jehovah as always in your claim about the CD denial. That should be easy.
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by truthislight: 10:07pm On Oct 27, 2013
MyJoe:
Very good you knew what to expect - at least, you claim to. Now go ahead and prove you weren't lying for Jehovah as always in your claim about the CD denial. That should be easy.

Who is the liar here ?

Who cares about dinial and living in denial ?

Whatever!
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by Nobody: 3:15pm On Oct 28, 2013
@Ndipe

I almost joined that group, because I
had the erroneous belief that they
were the only adherent sticking to the
principles of Christianity. What
disuaded me from joining them is their
denial of the bodily resurrection of
Jesus Christ even when it is clearly
written that He Resurrected physically
in the Holy Bible. That is the core of
Christianity, the birth, death and
physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. I
would advise anybody to steer clear
from that group and rely solely on
your Holy Bible for guidance on living a
life, acceptable to God. Jesus Christ
had forewarned us that false prophets
will arise in the end times.

Ndipe I really understand you. I personally thought that believing Christ arose in the spirit is absurd, but that is the lead we have from the bible. but first, can you tell me why you think that teaching is wrong?

1 Like

Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by Nobody: 3:42pm On Oct 28, 2013
Bobbyaf: I hope that what I have to say regarding the topic won't be seen as offensive by any JWs on the board, or any who are preparing to be. I am simply saying whats on my mind as it relates to the studies I have done on the organization. I have some dear friends and family members who happen to be JWs.

The JWs have not been consistent with their doctrines. They have actually changed quite a few of what they once held as gospel truth. Thats not a good sign for any organization who claims to be Jehovah's true organization.

You are correct. many of our understanding of the scriptures have changed. this doesnt mean that we do not have the truth. no. some mistake has been a result of unguided zeal and human mistakes. but the goodnews is that Jah leads his organisation progressively. the light gets brighter with time. Even the apostles has to adjust their understanding.

Almost all of their prophecies concerning the end of the world have failed. Truth cannot be altered. If its truth today, then its truth for tomorrow.

Today they hold that in 1914 Christ's kingdom presence , instead of His literal coming, has occured. Before 1914 it was another date concerning the same event.

Then there are these failed prophecies:

1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." Millions Now Living Will Never Die, page 89.

When the date arrived and nothing happened this was said: "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year." The Watchtower, 1/1/25, page. 3.

Excuse after excuse about their failed prophecies. As a result hundreds of thoundands left the organization more confused than before.

A JW might say that the organization is still learning. If that is so, then how can they trust what they are taught now by the Watchtower? Will what they are being taught now change also?

Ya. many have stumbled over the method of given death of when the end will come as done by JWs. humans we sometimes do have wrong expectations, just like the apostles thought Christ was restoring the kingdom at that time. in short it is the highest mistake to give a date when the world will end 'cos not even Jesus is aware of that.

we are still learning doesnt mean that what we have now is wrong. no. the light shines brighter as the day goes by. in which area further light will shine cannot be determined for now as God leads His people progressively.

A true prophet of God won't err in prophesying. Only a false prophet does. The Jehovah's Witness organization, that claims to be a prophet of God, is really a false prophet. Jesus warned us by saying, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear, (Matt. 24:24).

True prophecies of God never fails. The position of Jw is understanding and given meaning to what the prophesies uttered in the bible is, we are not inspired prophets to which you can say we are false prophets. You can say we had wrong expectation. the prophesies of God hasnt failed because of our wrong expectations. the prophsies in the bible has already been made.
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by Nobody: 4:07pm On Oct 28, 2013
lafile: JW's are one of the most inconsistent religious organisations in existence. Apart from those highlighted by Bobbyaf in his first post, i would also like to highlight a few more.

The Watchtower Society currently rejects most of the teachings of their first two leaders - its founder Charles Taze Russell (who was president of the organization from 1879-1916), and "Judge" Joseph Franklin Rutherford, who succeeded Russell as president from 1916 - 1942. These were called Gods spirit directed prophets in their days, but everything they stood for have been rejected. How can such an organisation be Gods only true body on earth? , how can we be sure that in 25 more years, Jehovah's Witnesses won't also reject the current president, Milton G. Henschel (1992 - present), as they did Russell and Rutherford?

The Watchtower organization claims "apostolic succession" for all its leaders, though there is no one who they can claim "passed the torch of God's Spirit" to C. T. Russell when he founded the organization.

There are so many inconsistencies in the New World Translation of tyhe Bible. You find that words are translated differently when they point to the deity of Jesus Christ.

JW is nothing more than an organisation with flaws using skewed notions to cover its flaws.
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by Nobody: 4:43pm On Oct 28, 2013
lafile: JW's are one of the most inconsistent religious organisations in existence. Apart from those highlighted by Bobbyaf in his first post, i would also like to highlight a few more.

The Watchtower Society currently rejects most of the teachings of their first two leaders - its founder Charles Taze Russell (who was president of the organization from 1879-1916), and "Judge" Joseph Franklin Rutherford, who succeeded Russell as president from 1916 - 1942. These were called Gods spirit directed prophets in their days, but everything they stood for have been rejected. How can such an organisation be Gods only true body on earth? , how can we be sure that in 25 more years, Jehovah's Witnesses won't also reject the current president, Milton G. Henschel (1992 - present), as they did Russell and Rutherford?

We do not reject any of them. nether do we view them as the head of JWs. the head of the congregation is still Jesus. they really did alot in our bible understanding, but they are fallible. but it is worthy of note that they are presidents of our corporation, NOT presidents of JWs. they are elders just like we have elders in our different congregations. The presidents are not the faithful slave, but are members of this slave.

The Watchtower organization claims "apostolic succession" for all its leaders, though there is no one who they can claim "passed the torch of God's Spirit" to C. T. Russell when he founded the organization.

We do not claim apostolic succession, unless it was in the past, but I need a prove to believe.

There are so many inconsistencies in the New World Translation of tyhe Bible. You find that words are translated differently when they point to the deity of Jesus Christ.

JW is nothing more than an organisation with flaws using skewed notions to cover its flaws.

We have flaws cos we are humans. and we do admit our mistakes. the NWT may have its mistakes, but this doesnt mean that it is inconsistent. Jesus doesnt claim to be the almighty God. to be sincere, bible translation require the overall knowledge of the bible, and with regards to Jesus, they have really transmitted what Jesus had in mind when on earth.

To help you understand. Pls does the almighty God have a God?

I know how hard it is to understand that this long help believe is not the truth.
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by Nobody: 12:21am On Oct 29, 2013
@bobbyaf

Bobbyaf: @ vchlady
You learnt nothing because you were not ready to start learning. Anyone can learn in any organization if you desire truth badly enough, and that includes being in the JW's organization. Thats like a student blaming his school for not fascilitating his learning. Learning should n't depend on extrinsic factors mostly, but intrinsic ones.

I know a lot of JWs who left the organization because they were prepared to study for themselves, and were not so dependent on what their organization taught. The denomination cannot search on your behalf. You must do that for yourself.

that was a nice advise. Personal study and conviction is advised even by JWs. However, he thinks the JWs helps him to know the truth. He cant realise this without personal study.

Good to know that, but Jehovah has directed all eyes to His Son Jesus Christ. If you're not doing that then you'd have failed to recognise the essence of the plan of salvation. Jesus is the bridge between the Father and you. Listen to what Jesus said:

John 14:8-, Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
9 Jesus said to him,
“Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?

Just like you the disciples were bent on learning more about the Father, but Jesus had to clarify that getting to know Him was the way to know the Father.


I really like your method. Your showing that one is the way and the other is the destination is a good start to solving the trinity puzzle. Jesus is not the destination, but God is. God is not the way but Jesus is.

That is true. Jesus said so in John14. But he wasnt implying that he was the father or equal to Him. Jesus perfectly represented the Father such that seeing him is as if you were hearing directly from the father. Why? Cos he does what His father told him to do.

Lets go to the end of that chapter.

John 14:28, 31 KJV
"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. [31] But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence."[b]

From that verse 28, dont you think that Jesus is not equal to the father?

From verse 31, dont you think that no one should give the almighty a commandment? For Jesus to stick to a commandment shows he cannot equal with the one who gave it to him. Not so?

Since Jesus mentained this commandment given to him, expecting to see the father is pointless cos Jesus did what the Father would have done.

[b]Were you made aware at your organization that the word Jehovah is not an accurate translation form the Hebrew? All the vowels in the word, that is e, o, and a were placed there by jewish writers who departed from the original manuscript. You of all persons should have known that the original expression resembled YHWH.

Originally Hebrew didn't have any vowels, and was written right to left, although some of the consonants carry with them the indication of associated vowel sounds. For instance, the "Y" is associated with the sound of a "long e",  as in "team".  The H is associated with the sound of a "short a" as "ah!"  The Vav is associated with the vowel "u" and produces the sound in the word "cool." Thus, the name of the Creator sounds something like "ee-ah oo' ah", with the accent on the second of the three syllables, as is the pronunciation convention in Hebrew.

Hence the closer pronunciation, or sounding for the name is Yahweh, and not Jehovah which is a man-made concoction.[quote]

Oga, you are correct that we do not have the correct pronunciation, but even the Yahweh is man made and concocted as you said above.

Even Jesus and Joshua is concocted. But why we use those names is that this is the way we pronounce it in english NOT hebrew. I can give other eg of names which may have been pronounced differently in hebrew.

You of all people do not know that we christian are not pronouncing hebrew name as the ancient hebrew do, rather we pronounce it colloquially?

So if you call Jesus or Messiah, you think you are pronouncing it as hebrews do? No, rather that is how it is in english.

If you want to pronounce in hebrew then stop pronouncing Yeshua as Jesus cos it is wrong.

[quote]You say that Jehovah wants us to call and use His name, so how come Jesus called Him Father? How come Jesus taught His disciples to address His Father as Father also? How come Jesus referred to Him as God, and not Jehovah? On the cross Jesus cried out "Eloi, Eloi" which means God.

How do you know that Jesus didnt use that name? Because you and your scholars didnt find it in the manuscript we have today? There is an indication that Jesus used that name.

John 17:6 KJV
I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

John 17:26 KJV
And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it : that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

We do not possess the original manuscript written by the apostles. So the name may have been replaced by copyists who do not know how to pronounce the name.

At least the apostles couldnt have removed the name cos the manuscript of the septuagint used that time had that name on it.

Can you find any evidence in the New Testament that any of the disciples referred to the Father as Jehovah seeing that the word Jehovah incorrectly came from the Tetragammon YHWH? Kindly go back to the NT manuscript and see if any reference was ever made to Jehovah. The only word that scholars are familiar with is Κυριος, a greek word which means Lord, and often it was associated with Jesus.

The abbreviated form of the name, Jah appeared in revelation. This is an indication that they used the name.

Do you think that when Jesus was reading the scroll of Isaiah where the name appeared, that Jesus will skip it and pronounce "lord" instead? That would sound funny. The name could have been there but was removed sometimes after the first century.

I am glad you raised this issue. Its funny how you are quick to teach that Jesus is a lesser God, and that the Father is the true God. In John 1 the JWs teach that Jesus is a God, or a lesser God than the Father. That would mean that there are 2 Gods. One is greater than the other according to JWs. The very text you quoted contradicts your beliefs.

The very quote you supplied in Isaiah 44:6 does not suport your teaching. Yet in the book of Hebrews the Father calls His Son God. Let us read it:

Hebrews 1:6 says, "Let all the angels of God worship Him.” The Him in the verse is God's Son. Why would the Father allow another to be worshipped if He alone is due worship?


The greek word for worship could also be translated obeisance. That is the way the NWT translated that verse. Why?

Luke 4:8 KJV
"And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

Since Jesus identified that we should worship only his father, it follows that any time we see that greek word describing him, it means that the sense conveyed is that of obeisance NOT worship. After all Jesus worshipped the Father.

Secondly, the word elohim/theos doesnt always mean someone who is ascribed worship. So if Jesus is called god, it doesnt mean you should worship him cos other persons do answer god in the bible, but are not worshipped.

let us view Revelation 1 and see how John describes Jesus:

Revelation 1,
9 I, John, both[e] your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,”[f] and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia:

Notice how Jesus was similarly described as Isaiah described God in chapter 44 as being the "first and the last"?

John continues identifying whose voice he heard behind him, 12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man,

This is what Jesus said: 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me,  “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last

True Jesus has the title first and last at Rev. 1:17. But this a title and those not mean he is without beginning.

Jesus is the first to rise to immortality from the dead and the last one to be so resurrected by Jah directly. That is why he bore that title. However, the first and the last stated at Isaiah has no definite article in the originals. So grammatically, the one at Rev. 1:17 is about title while the one at Isaiah is about Godship of Jehovah.

As for Rev.1:11, the Alpha and Omega there is spurious. That is why you dont see it in Revise Standard Version.

I hope you noticed that it was God that gave Jesus this revelation. I wonder who can give God almighty a revelation and send Him on errand. Think about it.

I also want you to notice how your own words have betrayed you. You say that whenever we see the word Lord as its seen now in the sentence, being written in lower case it means the Son right? This is what you said earlier: Well Jehovah wants us to know his so anywhere in your Bible where LORD is in capital letters Jehovah's name is suppose to be there and when you see lower case letters Jesus name is suppose to be there.

How then do you explain Revelation 1:8 which says:  “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

The "ord" in the word Lord has been written in lower case, and is a direct reference to Jesus being Almighty.

Its very clear to me that you need to search the scriptures for yourself outside of the pressure to conform to an organization. I can speak for myself that even though I belong to an organization called the SDA church, I am allowed to differ in opinion until there is clarification. I am not sure that any JW can afford to challenge the set doctrines.

Oga, it is true he didnt make it clear to you. What he mean to say is that the word LORD and lord when it occures in the "OT" are different hebrew words. The capital stands for YHWH while the small letter is kyrios. Though some still replace the YHWH with God.

At Rev.1:8, the person being spoken of as alpha and Omega is Jehovah NOT Jesus. Though the previous verse refers to Jesus but that verse 8 is talking about Jah. It is only Him the bible refers to as the almighty. He cant be the almighty and yet receive a revelation from another power. Since it was God who gave Jesus the revelation, at times the person talking is Jesus, at times it an angel and at times it is God almighty.

You are now in a position to challenge the doctrine.

1 Like

Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by Nobody: 1:28am On Oct 29, 2013
Bobbyaf: @ ricadelide
They have their own version of the bible that has been translated in such a manner so as to hide the truth about the deity of Christ. Its one of the most inconsistent versions I have ever read. Its no wonder they are a confused over the issues. let me give you an example:

Heb. 1:8. "God is your throne forever" (a nonsensical statement) is put intead of "your throne, O God, is forever," because this statement refers to Christ.

What is nonsensical statement? So even the American Translation, Moffatt, also the marginal reading at RSV are nonsensical?

To buttress the point that the writer is not saying that Jesus is equal to God, see verse 9,

Hebrews 1:9 KJV
"Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

From that verse 9, can you confidently say that the almighty has a God, since the one described in verse 8 has a God in verse 9?

secondly, that verse is a quotation from Psalms 45:6, 7, so a human king of Israel is now almighty God? sorry for you.

Look at Genesis 2:1-2 and notice how complex the sentence construction is. 1 Thus the heavens and the earth and all their army came to their completion. 2 And by the seventh day God came to the completion of his work that he had made, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had made.

Notice the phrase in bold. God "proceeded to rest" [size=16pt]The hebrew specifically states that "God rested"[/size] but becasue the JWs do not believe that a day in creation is a literal one, they used the expression proceeded to rest to indicate the long time it took God to commence resting. When one proceeds to do something that one has not yet begun to do the action as yet. If I proceed to cleam my desk it doesn't say if and when I would have started cleaning. The phrase only indicates that I have the intention to do the act, or I may have begun to move towards my desk. Hence there can be no closure to the activiy itself, until the past tense is used, and not the past continuous.

But when you visit their bible and look at the book of Hebrews and its account of the creation you will notice the contradiction. In Hebrews 1:4 this is what is quoted, 4 For in one place he has said of the seventh day as follows: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,

Notice the use of the past tense as it relates to God having rested?

I rest my case.

1. the enhanced size. how can you claim to know hebrew but make that statement that woefully expose your shallow reasoning? Both you and those who write in their translation "rested" at gen2:2 needs to go back to class and study hebrew once more.

the word in question is "waiyishboth". this verb is in the imperfect state denoting incomplete or continuous action. so the NWT faithfully transmitted the flavor of that verse.

2. read that hebrew very well and see that the rest day Paul was talking about was ongoing.

Hebrews 4:4-6 KJV
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. [5]And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. [6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:"

cant you see that the rest day is ongoing. Paul compared two scriptures to show that the rest day is ongoing.
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by Nobody: 1:33am On Oct 29, 2013
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by Nobody: 1:53am On Oct 29, 2013
Horus: Jehovah Witness’ Fake Christ
, the Jehovah’s Witness’ had a leader that was also considered “a Christ.” That leader being Charles Tazzil Russell who founded the sect in 1870. When he was dissatisfied with Christianity as it was, he organized his first bible study class. Six years later, in 1876, he elected himself  “pastor.” In 1879 he sold his interest in a clothing firm and began printing “The Watchtower” semi-monthly. By 1884, his “Zion’s Watchtower and Bible Society,” was incorporated in Pennsylvania and in 1908, he moved his headquarters from Pittsburgh, PA to Brooklyn, NY. Russell claimed to be the seventh angel mentioned in the book or Revelation. He said that the other six were men. He predicted the end of the world several times! 1874, 1876, 1914, 1916, and 1918, each time stating that word came to him from the creator whom he called Jehovah.

please can you prove the bolded?

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