People argue about the non, or existence, of gods, but you hardly come across an argument over the existence of the devils. Perhaps its implied in the god argument I wonder - and gods are mere proxies for either. Yesterday though, the following thought crossed my mind. Kind of like a thought experience.
If hell exists, and sinners go there if they haven't repented. Would a 'sinner', like me, a regular joe, never killed anyone born or unborn, told the occasional lie, stolen nothing huge and only from ma whilst in the early days of existence; said, "there are no gods" so a fool at best, broken say 62% of the commandments about 40% of the time etc. I know it goes, repent, accept Christ into your life, be reborn etc and live eternally, and in heaven I suppose. But if I don't, and then die, would my hell be the same hell as Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler and Luis Garavito, if they didn't get Christ either before they died? Would our roasting be equal, or would each receive an amount of hellish existence proportionate to our sins?

I am assuming the teaching is, heaven or hell dwelling is forever (or till Jesus returns), and not like a jail term where you're set free after the punishment is served or rehabilitation completed.

P.s. I know you haven't been to hell so would accept opinions, careful considerations and beliefs I guess. but if you're claiming some sort of actual definitive knowing, ....................

illusions
Your all merciful God has plans for punishment

Your roasting would be equal, equal with that of a 7yo who's only sin was stealing 20 naira from his mother's purse to buy sweets

budaatum:
P.s. I know you haven't been to hell so would accept opinions, careful considerations and beliefs I guess. but if you're claiming some sort of actual definitive knowing, ....................

according to Catholicism you will go to purgatory to pay for your sins, then go to heaven after. They have mortal sin and venial sin, so all sin ain't equal. protestants and Pentecostals disagree.

Humanistme:


according to Catholicism you will go to purgatory to pay for your sins, then go to heaven after. They have mortal sin and venial sin, so all sin ain't equal. protestants and Pentecostals disagree.

Yea, purgatory crossed my mind. However, I found I might not qualify as I would not have died in a state of grace. I am assuming Hitler et al wouldn't qualify either.


Only those who die in the state of grace but have not yet fulfilled the temporal punishment due to their sin can be in Purgatory, and therefore no one in Purgatory will remain forever in that state nor go to hell. Wiki

hopefulLandlord:
Your roasting would be equal, equal with that of a 7yo who's only sin was stealing 20 naira from his mother's purse to buy sweets

Hey! How is that fair? Should the punishment be commensurate with the sin?

budaatum:

Yea, purgatory crossed my mind. However, I found I might not qualify as I would not have died in a state of grace. I am assuming Hitler et al wouldn't qualify either.


Only those who die in the state of grace but have not yet fulfilled the temporal punishment due to their sin can be in Purgatory, and therefore no one in Purgatory will remain forever in that state nor go to hell. Wiki

were you a Catholic?

being in State of grace doesn't mean being without an atom of sin. it means being without the so called mortal sins like murder, idolatry etc.

If anyone dies with venial sin he/she can avoid hell. they even believe the prayers/penance of his beloved ones can help him escape hell. This why Catholics pray for the dead.

Humanistme:


were you a Catholic?

being in State of grace doesn't mean being without an atom of sin. it means being without the so called mortal sins like murder, idolatry etc.

If anyone dies with venial sin he/she can avoid hell. they even believe the prayers/penance of his beloved ones can help him escape hell. This why Catholics pray for the dead.

No, I was not a catholic. Wasn't brought up with gods in any religious way. My initial knowledge of them came from reading Greek and Egyptian mythology. And then I met Nigerians!

I'm not trying to avoid going to hell here. I've done my sins and strongly believe in paying what's due. I'm just wondering what it will cost.

Humanistme:


according to Catholicism you will go to purgatory to pay for your sins, then go to heaven after. They have mortal sin and venial sin, so all sin ain't equal. protestants and Pentecostals disagree.

Catholicism and all other sects are just thinly vieled devilish lies. You pay for your sin ke, says who?
Who'll accept your payment? God? You're kidding.
catholicism is an apostasy. Notice the devil's techniques- imitate the original as closely as possible but adulterate the imitation with subtle to blatant lies.
Christianity is the original, how many false religions parading as christianity are they?

Let's count:
Catholicism,
Jehovah witnesses,
Mormons,
Islam - abrahamic apostasy
Orthodox churches-
Olumba olumba-cult
Christian science - cult(based on biblical beliefs)
etc

This proves that Christianity is the ish-hence the many imitations.

budaatum:

No, I was not a catholic. Wasn't brought up with gods in any religious way. My initial knowledge of them came from reading Greek and Egyptian mythology. And then I met Nigerians!

I'm not trying to avoid going to hell here. I've done my sins and strongly believe in paying what's due. I'm just wondering what it will cost.

You're a brave soul. I admire your courage. I believe ur mind is made up.
First, let me say this- you'll ever live to regret it .
That's oxymoronic. I know.
But God being just, will punish each person fairly.
To those who did great sins, great punishment will befall them,
to those who did lesser, lesser punishment. But it would be like it is bearable. They'll be no respite,
no matter what. Just that some ppl's own will be more than others.
For all inmates, they'll be weeping and gnashing of teeth!
Their fire wont go out day and night! forever!

asalimpo:

You pay for your sin ke, says who?
Who'll accept your payment? God?

I knew this will come up when I wrote "pay", and "cost".

Can it be like figure of speech please? I'm well aware gold is of no use to God, except tithes of course. Shall we understand me to mean "to serve my punishment"?

Do note, I do not intend to all of a sudden claim 'Jesus is Lord' on my deathbed. I think that will be dishonest, and reprehensible!

asalimpo:

You're a brave soul. I admire your courage. I believe ur mind is made up.
First, let me say this- you'll ever live to regret it .
That's oxymoronic. I know.
But God being just, will punish each person fairly.
To those who did great sins, great punishment will befall them,
to those who did lesser, lesser punishment. But it would be like it is bearable. They'll be no respite,
no matter what. Just that some ppl's own will be more than others.
For all inmates, they'll be weeping and gnashing of teeth!
Their fire wont go out day and night! forever!

So Hitler and I will not get the same punishment but both our punishments will be forever?

Would it be a fitting analogy of the magnitude of difference of weeping and gnashing of teethiness Hitler and co, and I will suffer, to say, if we were sentenced to the same prison term, while I might experience a reasonable amount of mosquito bitings, electric small small and a cold shower every six months; Hitler will receive tons of scorpion bites, 2 minutes of candle light at best and a freezing shower every ten years?

That might be fair! Least I can look at Hitler and co and thank God that I am not like those Soul Collectors over there!

By the way, I'm getting a feeling hell is a Catholic concept. Surely Protestantism has hell too?

asalimpo:

[s]Catholicism and all other sects are just thinly vieled devilish lies. You pay for your sin ke, says who?
Who'll accept your payment? God? You're kidding.
catholicism is an apostasy. Notice the devil's techniques- imitate the original as closely as possible but adulterate the imitation with subtle to blatant lies.
Christianity is the original, how many false religions parading as christianity are they?

Let's count:
Catholicism,
Jehovah witnesses,
Mormons,
Islam - abrahamic apostasy
Orthodox churches-
Olumba olumba-cult
Christian science - cult(based on biblical beliefs)
etc

This proves that Christianity is the ish-hence the many imitations.[/s]

This has nothing to do with the topic or what I had in mind while replaying the OP.

asalimpo:

also "pay for your sins" in this context means suffer or get punished for your sins. it's just a figure of speech

Believing in judgemental God and non existing devil steal your future.....


You are the architect of your own destiny......

Whatever you become today is as a result of your handwork, for every action there is always reaction..... Isaac Newton law....which is the same thing as karma law....

There is nothing like hellfire or any devil....

vaxx:
Believing in judgemental God and non existing devil steal your future.....


You are the architect of your own destiny......

Whatever you become today is as a result of your handwork, for every action there is always reaction..... Isaac Newton law....which is the same thing as karma law....

There is nothing like hellfire or any devil....

Or gods? Which begs the question, from where cometh karma? is there like a savings account kept for all the things one does and the proceeds get dished out going forward? Then what would be the likely karmic reward for my sins and transgressions

p.s. I slipped that last word in. You need to work with the fact that my sins and transgressions amount to way more than any good I might have done before I died. My karmic account is negative.

budaatum:

Or gods? Which begs the question, from where cometh karma? is there like a savings account kept for all the things one does and the proceeds get dished out going forward? Then what would be the likely karmic reward for my sins and transgressions

p.s. I slipped that last word in. You need to work with the fact that my sins and transgressions amount to way more than any good I might have done before I died. My karmic account is negative.

God evidence Is wrtten bodly here in the universe.......so no room for ignorance......if you still doubt....you can go through my thread, i created some provoking taught ,that can mak you rethnk on your premises...

So back to the topic.......whatever you become of today is as a result of your handwork.....the karma is as a result of your action.....in physics, the law of motion explain that in every interaction, there is a pair of forces acting on the interacting object...which will means an equal force will recive the same equal force or opposite force if it is not equal

the law of isaac newton at motion is equal to sochastic karma . which is currently visible in the world today .

When we commit a habit of being good to others, we increase the likelihood that good will come back to us. It might not balance out perfectly in the end. We might get less good back than we gave. And we might get more good back than we gave. But those who are good to others will tend to do better in life than those who are not. So the same with when we commit a habit of being bad to others .

This kind of karma is not a mysterious spooky force, but just a way of accepting the reality of reciprocity

vaxx:


This kind of karma is not a mysterious spooky force, but just a way of accepting the reality of reciprocity

I do not do doubt as far as gods are concerned. Nor am I asking to be preached to please. This is purely an exercise in thought. Do note, the premise is based on the following:
There is god.
There is heaven.
There must be hell
There must be a devil.
If you are in dispute with any of these assumptions, we may want to open a thread to discuss, but I do not wish to entertain them in this thread please.

So, karma, as you said, in a nut shell means, one reaps what one sows. I have relisted my sowings below.

budaatum:
Would a 'sinner', like me, a regular joe, never killed anyone born or unborn, told the occasional lie, stolen nothing huge and only from ma whilst in the early days of existence; said, "there are no gods" so a fool at best, broken say 62% of the commandments about 40% of the time etc.

They may not sound like really hell bound sins, but imagine they are.

The question might be, what would my karmic reward be, assuming I do not repent or accept Jesus as my lord and saviour, and die? Or are you suggesting my agony will be dished out here on earth?

vaxx:
Believing in judgemental God and non existing devil steal your future.....


You are the architect of your own destiny......

Whatever you become today is as a result of your handwork, for every action there is always reaction..... Isaac Newton law....which is the same thing as karma law....

There is nothing like hellfire or any devil....

I get you now. Thanks for your contribution.

budaatum:

I do not do doubt as far as gods are concerned. Nor am I asking to be preached to please. This is purely an exercise in thought. Do note, the premise is based on the following:
There is god.
There is heaven.
There must be hell
There must be a devil.
If you are in dispute with any of these assumptions, we may want to open a thread to discuss, but I do not wish to entertain them in this thread please.

So, karma, as you said, in a nut shell means, one reaps what one sows. I have relisted my sowings below.

They may not sound like really hell bound sins, but imagine they are.

The question might be, what would my karmic reward be, assuming I do not repent or accept Jesus as my lord and saviour, and die? Or are you suggesting my agony will be dished out here on earth?

I believe in God ....because its evidence is written bodly in the universe ,......I do not fall into the category of people who subscribed to devil or hell fire dogma.... My subjecive evidence says its not possible.....I have nothing to do with Jesus dogma

Humanistme:


This has nothing to do with the topic or what I had in mind while replaying the OP.

It's hollow crossing out anoda person's comment. What does that gesture mean? Trying to hush some1 from saying what he wanted to say? Or what? what wanted to be said had been said.
If you wish it wasnt said, then crossing it out doesnt achieve that goal.
Anyway,u must be catholic,going by your response.

budaatum:

I knew this will come up when I wrote "pay", and "cost".

Can it be like figure of speech please? I'm well aware gold is of no use to God, except tithes of course. Shall we understand me to mean "to serve my punishment"?

Do note, I do not intend to all of a sudden claim 'Jesus is Lord' on my deathbed. I think that will be dishonest, and reprehensible!

Well, according to the bible, all men have sinned (you understand 'men' stands for male and female humans).
God has accepted the payment for the sins of man thru the only acceptable payment of a sinless spotless human - only a human being can save a human being (of likekind), - His son,Jesus Christ.
So,the question before you and all men is simply to accept the work Jesus did for all men.
Going ahead to try to pay for your own sins,is either ignorance or arrogance.
Either way, it wont suffice. Because,it just wont meet God's standard.
The choice is up to you.
The gift of salvation isnt gonna be forced on you or anybody.
Some will mock and spit on it, others will accept.
But one thing is certain, even as u make ur choice, you know that you consciouslyand deliberately made it.
Nobody made it for u. You and only u,did it. God doesnt take u to heaven, and doesnt sent u to hell (i.e against ur will).
You chose where u want to be in! He simply complies with u wishes ,legally.

vaxx:
Believing in judgemental God and non existing devil steal your future.....


You are the architect of your own destiny......

Whatever you become today is as a result of your handwork, for every action there is always reaction..... Isaac Newton law....which is the same thing as karma law....

There is nothing like hellfire or any devil....

You wish there wasnt. It's a hard thought to bear. And a fearful one for many.
However, truth is truth- anything outside the truth is a lie. Instead of suppressing the truth, or
denying,it's safer to accept it and adjust to it.
You simply wish there wasnt a hell.

budaatum:
People argue about the non, or existence, of gods, but you hardly come across an argument over the existence of the devils. Perhaps its implied in the god argument I wonder - and gods are mere proxies for either. Yesterday though, the following thought crossed my mind. Kind of like a thought experience.
If hell exists, and sinners go there if they haven't repented. Would a 'sinner', like me, a regular joe, never killed anyone born or unborn, told the occasional lie, stolen nothing huge and only from ma whilst in the early days of existence; said, "there are no gods" so a fool at best, broken say 62% of the commandments about 40% of the time etc. I know it goes, repent, accept Christ into your life, be reborn etc and live eternally, and in heaven I suppose. But if I don't, and then die, would my hell be the same hell as Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler and Luis Garavito, if they didn't get Christ either before they died? Would our roasting be equal, or would each receive an amount of hellish existence proportionate to our sins?

I am assuming the teaching is, heaven or hell dwelling is forever (or till Jesus returns), and not like a jail term where you're set free after the punishment is served or rehabilitation completed.

If the righteous will receive different rewards in heaven based on their activities on earth,
The unrighteous must also receive different intensity of misery based on their activities while they were on earth.

Why would someone prepare for a life in limbo when he can live with God eternally!

asalimpo:


You wish there wasnt. It's a hard thought to bear. And a fearful one for many.
However, truth is truth- anything outside the truth is a lie. Instead of suppressing the truth, or
denying,it's safer to accept it and adjust to it.
You simply wish there wasnt a hell.

ooh ,so you believed there is hell to the extent you even call it an evidence of truth......

Let's weigh your evidence of truth.....


Who is fueling the fire in the hell?

What are the component of chemical that still make it burn till now?

Any answer to this question will be welcome....



Hell fire is a fragment of human imagination fueled by overzealous abrahimic clergy to haunt a non abrhimic faithful like me....it is not in anyway Truth....


According to abrahimic religion hell is real,

According to physics, hell is not real

According to quantum physics, hell is not real

According to common sense, physical hell fire is not real but it is onlyreal in the state of mind....


I subscribe to the common sense definition.... Hell fire is taking to be supernatural and therefore fall outside the scope of science becuse it can not be tested but do not fall outside logic and reasons..

Hell fire is a place of total condemnation according to abrahimic religion..... In this regard , the punishment given to a prositute will be the same as murderer.... No equal or opposite justification base on gravity of the sins committed.... if this is what you called to be true, then earth judicial system is even far better than heaven judicial system.....in a simple language,it is absurd to treat hell fire as an evidence of truth....

asalimpo:

It's hollow crossing out anoda person's comment. What does that gesture mean? Trying to hush some1 from saying what he wanted to say? Or what? what wanted to be said had been said.
If you wish it wasnt said, then crossing it out doesnt achieve that goal.
Anyway,u must be catholic,going by your response.

that your comment is irrelevant. The op is looking for perspectives of concept hell and eternal punishment I gave a a Catholic perspective you jumped to quote with your stupid self righteousness claiming your own view is the truth while others is devilish with no evidence.

asalimpo:


You wish there wasnt. It's a hard thought to bear. And a fearful one for many.
However, truth is truth- anything outside the truth is a lie. Instead of suppressing the truth, or
denying,it's safer to accept it and adjust to it.
You simply wish there wasnt a hell.

provide proof hell is real I will believe you.

asalimpo:

Catholicism and all other sects are just thinly vieled devilish lies. You pay for your sin ke, says who?
Who'll accept your payment? God? You're kidding.
catholicism is an apostasy. Notice the devil's techniques- imitate the original as closely as possible but adulterate the imitation with subtle to blatant lies.
Christianity is the original, how many false religions parading as christianity are they?

Let's count:
Catholicism,
Jehovah witnesses,
Mormons,
Islam - abrahamic apostasy
Orthodox churches-
Olumba olumba-cult
Christian science - cult(based on biblical beliefs)
etc

This proves that Christianity is the ish-hence the many imitations.

I absolutely concur with you bro.

budaatum:
People argue about the non, or existence, of gods, but you hardly come across an argument over the existence of the devils. Perhaps its implied in the god argument I wonder - and gods are mere proxies for either. Yesterday though, the following thought crossed my mind. Kind of like a thought experience.
If hell exists, and sinners go there if they haven't repented. Would a 'sinner', like me, a regular joe, never killed anyone born or unborn, told the occasional lie, stolen nothing huge and only from ma whilst in the early days of existence; said, "there are no gods" so a fool at best, broken say 62% of the commandments about 40% of the time etc. I know it goes, repent, accept Christ into your life, be reborn etc and live eternally, and in heaven I suppose. But if I don't, and then die, would my hell be the same hell as Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler and Luis Garavito, if they didn't get Christ either before they died? Would our roasting be equal, or would each receive an amount of hellish existence proportionate to our sins?

I am assuming the teaching is, heaven or hell dwelling is forever (or till Jesus returns), and not like a jail term where you're set free after the punishment is served or rehabilitation completed.

Op, you will pay for your sins, if you refuse the payment made on your behalf. Christ has paid for our sins, it is now our responsibility to accept his payment as our payment.

asalimpo:

Well, according to the bible, all men have sinned (you understand 'men' stands for male and female humans).
God has accepted the payment for the sins of man thru the only acceptable payment of a sinless spotless human - only a human being can save a human being (of likekind), - His son,Jesus Christ.
So,the question before you and all men is simply to accept the work Jesus did for all men.
Going ahead to try to pay for your own sins,is either ignorance or arrogance.
Either way, it wont suffice. Because,it just wont meet God's standard.
The choice is up to you.
The gift of salvation isnt gonna be forced on you or anybody.
Some will mock and spit on it, others will accept.
But one thing is certain, even as u make ur choice, you know that you consciouslyand deliberately made it.
Nobody made it for u. You and only u,did it. God doesnt take u to heaven, and doesnt sent u to hell (i.e against ur will).
You chose where u want to be in! He simply complies with u wishes ,legally.

So on point.

budaatum:
People argue about the non, or existence, of gods, but you hardly come across an argument over the existence of the devils. Perhaps its implied in the god argument I wonder - and gods are mere proxies for either. Yesterday though, the following thought crossed my mind. Kind of like a thought experience.
If hell exists, and sinners go there if they haven't repented. Would a 'sinner', like me, a regular joe, never killed anyone born or unborn, told the occasional lie, stolen nothing huge and only from ma whilst in the early days of existence; said, "there are no gods" so a fool at best, broken say 62% of the commandments about 40% of the time etc. I know it goes, repent, accept Christ into your life, be reborn etc and live eternally, and in heaven I suppose. But if I don't, and then die, would my hell be the same hell as Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler and Luis Garavito, if they didn't get Christ either before they died? Would our roasting be equal, or would each receive an amount of hellish existence proportionate to our sins?

I am assuming the teaching is, heaven or hell dwelling is forever (or till Jesus returns), and not like a jail term where you're set free after the punishment is served or rehabilitation completed.

When you refuse to argue with the wise your foolishness is boundless


..