agaugust:


STTEP does not teach conventional warfare like your SANDF 1970s outdated Rugby or Soccer field of play tactics. Go to STTEP website, they train COIN and unconventional ops.

Dummy art thou.

This forum is about national armies ranking not private military companies doing business.

Thanks for proving that Eben Barlow training 120 Nigerian soldiers is IRRELEVANT on this forum
.

So did the SADF conduct only conventional operations in Angola/Namibia?

agaugust:


Me? No, you just proved me right, Snydergyp was the lying and denying South African special forces were deployed for border security duties where they fail daily due to poor bush tactics of your fake bush war masters who cannot succeed in their own homeland.

Tell that to the 80 000 detained illegal immigrants and 2000 apprehended criminals

And what of your navy that cannot succeed in your own waters (Africas new piracy hotspot)
And your army that cannot succeed in the Niger Delta or against Boko Haram?

People in glass houses...

agaugust:


Nigerian military trained the ANC fighters who became top ranking Generals in SANDF....including your ex-deputy air force chief.... Nigeria built the foundation and leadership heirachy of South African armed forces of today 2015.

History cannot be changed....it has happened and on record FOREVER AND EVER !!!!!!!!
.

1. Where does it say it trained top ANC fighters?
2. Ex Air-Cheif was trained in BASIC FLIGHT in Nigeria... wow so impressive
3. All ex-freedom fighters were re-trained by the SADF before they were allowed to wear the uniform

This is truly the most pathetic argument you have ever made, utter desperation

agaugust:


I see, so SANDF was only able to DISARM the UNARMED consumer goods smugglers. Congrats, your army just proved there is a fate worse than mediocrity
.

Where does it say unarmed?

80 000
2000 criminals

Feats Nigeria could only dream of

agaugust:


Same way your corrupt ANC politicians are looting your treasury today.

Maybe

But your generals killed over 1 million Nigerians

ANC has not done that

O, and we are a democratic country

agaugust:


Just because you say so? Na who u be sef?

Compare the stats

agaugust:


Nigerian military trained the ANC fighters who became top ranking Generals in SANDF....including your ex-deputy air force chief.... Nigeria built the foundation and leadership heirachy of South African armed forces of today 2015.

History cannot be changed....it has happened and on record FOREVER AND EVER !!!!!!!!
.

Nigeria only trained a handful of ANC fighters, the majority were trained by Cuban and Angolan forces,and after that ALL of them were trained by the SADF before joining the new SANDF, or did Nigeria train the SADF as well?

Corruption at the helm of Nigerian Army's epic failure to stop rebels on donkeys carrying muskets.

Soldiers complain of lack of ammunition and other supplies.
http://news.yahoo.com/nigeria-pm-blames-corruption-weak-fight-against-boko-100635542.html

Nigerian military is weak, underfunded and poorly equipped says said its former army chief. http://m.mgafrica.com/article/2015-07-31-parting-shot-nigerian-military-weak-and-a-tool-of-politicians-and-foreigners-says-sacked-army-chief

Budget makes provision for new equipment for SANDF

"The South African National Defence Force (SANDF) will be acquiring medium and light transport aircraft, torpedoes, mobile communications and air launched missiles, as funding has been allocated for these items in the Department of Defence’s budget."

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=41569:budget-makes-provision-for-new-equipment-for-sandf&catid=111:sa-defence&Itemid=242

snydergp1st:
Nigerian military is weak, underfunded and poorly equipped says said its former army chief. http://m.mgafrica.com/article/2015-07-31-parting-shot-nigerian-military-weak-and-a-tool-of-politicians-and-foreigners-says-sacked-army-chief

Since the SANDF is doing worse.

http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-33889/

Sixty-two percent of SANDF facilities in unacceptable condition

Patchesagain:


How is modern warfare different to what we did?

SANDF army's 1970s ancient style RUGBY FOOTBALL TEAM STYLE exercises does not include amphibious combat war games, your army can only operate on dry land....fvcking dry land army.....and the dry land must always be brown color to match your non-versatile brownie camo uniforms.

Nigerian army brigade level exercises includes full amphibious warfare, we have a balanced training and balanced all terrain warfare capability and competence....trained to fight anywhere in the world !

Patchesagain:


Maybe

But your generals killed over 1 million Nigerians

ANC has not done that

O, and we are a democratic country

you mean civil rule. ANC has been in affairs for 21 years despite massive failure in military and economy.

mzilakazi:


It is simple. If you do not accept Mandela helped bring pressure against Nigeria's military rule we do not accept Nigeria had ever helped to put pressure against apartheid government from the outside.

In November 1996, The Economist, which could fairly profess its objectivity in commentaries on Nigeria, declared plainly that Abacha had won his year-long contest against the combined forces of the Commonwealth, the European Union, South Africa, and the United States. That formidable combination of adversaries was unable to compel Abacha’s ruling junta to cede power to its domestic opponents, or even to a coalition of civilians controlled by its supporters, any sooner than it wished to do so, if at all. Despite Nigeria’s interminable and debilitating political crisis, and related threats of sectionalist separatism, the junta has been able to withstand the assault mounted by leading Western powers and their allies.


This is the link you brought to prove Mandela brought democracy to Nigeria. You shot yourself not in the foot but right in the head. The excerpt below is the summary of your own link.


How spectacularly humiliating

agaugust:


SANDF army's 1970s ancient style RUGBY FOOTBALL TEAM STYLE exercises does not include amphibious combat war games, your army can only operate on dry land....fvcking dry land army.....and the dry land must always be brown color to match your non-versatile brownie camo uniforms.

Nigerian army brigade level exercises includes full amphibious warfare, we have a balanced training and balanced all terrain warfare capability and competence....trained to fight anywhere in the world !

You have only had one Brigade exercise in the last decade.

FACT

You also have no force projection - meaning amphibious operations training is pointless.

And fact is, the fighting happens on the land - and we focus on that. So while you are messing around with small numbers of men on boats... we are doing Brigade sized and co-ordinated para-drops and armored assaults, deployment of air-mobile infantry, TALO operations etc.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quKolu3swBE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4EL-Yrw_bs

SANDF = constant brigade sized training with the most advanced training equipment on the continent
Nigeria = one exercise in a decade

agaugust:


SANDF army's 1. 1970s ancient style RUGBY FOOTBALL TEAM STYLE exercises does not include amphibious combat war games, your army can only operate on dry land....fvcking dry land army.....and the dry land must always be brown color to match your non-versatile brownie camo uniforms.

Nigerian army brigade level exercises includes full amphibious warfare, we have a balanced training and balanced all terrain warfare capability and competence....trained to fight anywhere in the world !

1. WTF is that supposed to mean?

2. When we need to cross water, we just build a fvcking bridge, as easy as that.

agaugust:


SANDF army's 1970s ancient style RUGBY FOOTBALL TEAM STYLE

1. How are they "RUGBY FOOTBALL TEAM STYLE"?
2. How are yours different?

jln115:


2. When we need to cross water, we just build a fvcking bridge, as easy as that.

Bwahaha

Inferior + Obsolete SANDF needs to build DURING BATTLE a bride to cross water in modern day year 2015 !!!

During speed advance, hot pursuit, retreat, or quick intervention/rapid response situations, there will be NO time to start building a bridge during an ongoing battle !

SANDF is a dry land only army.....Nigeria has about 500 amphibious armoured APCs and IFVs....your SANDF is inferior and obsolete.

Patchesagain:


You have only had one Brigade exercise in the last decade.

FACT

You also have no force projection - meaning amphibious operations training is pointless.

And fact is, the fighting happens on the land - and we focus on that. So while you are messing around with small numbers of men on boats... we are doing Brigade sized and co-ordinated para-drops and armored assaults, deployment of air-mobile infantry, TALO operations etc.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quKolu3swBE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4EL-Yrw_bs

SANDF = constant brigade sized training with the most advanced training equipment on the continent
Nigeria = one exercise in a decade

Whoooosh !!! Humiliated !!!

Your two videos show NOTHING BRIGADE size, all we see are about 20 men paratroopers

Nigeria had TWO brigade size NA+NN+NAF multiple-brigade size exercises in 11 years, TAKUTE 2004 and OLOGUN 2009, in 2014 we had LAFIYA DOLE final offensive exercise of SIX BRIGADES combined, and straight from that war game they went into REAL LIFE war that South Africa has NEVER fought in that magnitude in the last 70 years !

SADF/SANDF has NEVER deployed up to one full brigade to war in the last 70 years.

Nigeria does not need yearly brigade size war games when we already deploy about 3 to 6 brigades into real war consistently for the past 25 years all over Africa in real life war, not Rugby Football match war games of South African military.

SANDF, SAN, SAAF have NEVER graduated to fighting any real tri-service war in real life, your Rugby players army never goes into any competition against real opponents, they are always stuck with training by themselves alone in an indoor hall, arranging combat forces like oranges on a table for sale by market women !

Nigeria combines training with constant war experience in real life , we are superior to you home baby sitters military.

Tell me, how does your navy SAN, participate in joint army, navy, air force war games if you only train on brown sand dry lands with no amphibious war game, your frigates and submarines drive with Dunlop or Michelin tyres on dry land to join the army on the field?

All your SANDF training is garbage to be dumped into the incinerator. Rugby Football tactics army
.

agaugust:


Bwahaha

Inferior + Obsolete SANDF needs to build DURING BATTLE a bride to cross water in modern day year 2015 !!!

During speed advance, hot pursuit, retreat, or quick intervention/rapid response situations, there will be NO time to start building a bridge during an ongoing battle !

SANDF is a dry land only army.....Nigeria has about 500 amphibious armoured APCs and IFVs....your SANDF is inferior and obsolete.

1. We didnt have a problem in Angola - a land full of rivers and against an enemy with many amphibious vehicles
2. We is the US/UK abandoning Amphibious vehicles?

Main point: What does Nigeria know about organized brigade sized warfare? You dont train for it!

lezz:
Nigeria didn't help to help put pressure against apartheid, that's under reporting; NIGERIA FREED YOU AND UNSHACKLE YOUR CHAINS OF 400 YEARS OF SLAVERY.


You didn't read your own link, I pity you. Mandela admitted failure and NIGERIA got your own southern African economic community to isolate you. What a crunching humiliation. Excerpts from your own source:



a summit meeting of the twelve-member Southern African Development Community, summoned by Mandela to consider the Nigerian issue, decided to leave the question of further action against Nigeria to the Commonwealth. Eventually, South Africa quietly withdrew its support for the minority of two (Canada and Jamaica) in CMAG that continued to favour sanctions.

Your words are just waste. South Africans are bad losers.

SOUTH AFRICA didn't help to help put pressure against military rule, that's under reporting; SOUTH AFRICA FREED YOU AND UNSHACKLE YOUR CHAINS OF 800 YEARS OF MECHANTILE SLAVERY.

agaugust:


Whoooosh !!!! # Humiliated !!!

Your two videos show NOTHING BRIGADE size, all we see are about 20 men paratroopers

Nigeria had TWO brigade size NA+NN+NAF multiple-brigade size exercises in 11 years, TAKUTE 2004 and OLOGUN 2009, in 2014 we had LAFIYA DOLE final offensive exercise of SIX BRIGADES combined, and straight from that war game they went into REAL LIFE war that South Africa has NEVER fought in that magnitude in the last 70 years !

SADF/SANDF has NEVER deployed up to one full brigade to war in the last 70 years.

Nigeria does not need yearly brigade size war games when we already deploy about 3 to 6 brigades into real war consistently for the past 25 years all over Africa in real life war, not Rugby Football match war games of South African military.

SANDF, SAN, SAAF have NEVER graduated to fighting any real tri-service war in real life, your Rugby players army never goes into any competition, they are always stuck with training by themselves alone, arranging combat forces like oranges on a table for sale by market women !

Nigeria combines training with constant war experience in real life , we are superior to you home baby sitters military.

Tell me, how does your navy SAN, participate in joint army, navy, air force war games if you only train on brown sand dry lands, your frigates and submarines drive with Dunlop or Michelin tyres on dry land ?

All your SANDF training is garbage to be dumped into the incinerator. Rugby Football tactics army
.

1. Read about Ex Joint Accord - you blithering idiot (you want a video to record each man?)
2. So you have 3 Brigade exercises in a decade? We have close to 3 a year - again we win

3. SANDF has never deployed a Brigade into war in 70 years? Here is a list of about 30
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_operations_of_the_South_African_Border_War

4. So soldiers dont need to train?

5. How is what Nigeria does different to "Rugby Footbal match" that we do?

6. SANDF, SAN, SAAF and SAN have 25 years of tri-service operation under their belt as well as involvement in yearly Seboka Exercises and this years Ex Young Eagle

7. Training > Experience

8. SAN does regular operations with SF units - such as parachuting them onto a submarine and infiltrating them on land.

I am not even going to bother adressing the complete innefectual nature of your armies operations

The main point is - how is SANDF "rugby football tactics wrong" when it was so effective in Angola?

I keep asking but you are never able to respond!

agaugust:


Whoooosh !!! Humiliated !!!

Your two videos show NOTHING BRIGADE size, all we see are about 20 men paratroopers

Nigeria had TWO brigade size NA+NN+NAF multiple-brigade size exercises in 11 years, TAKUTE 2004 and OLOGUN 2009, in 2014 we had LAFIYA DOLE final offensive exercise of SIX BRIGADES combined, and straight from that war game they went into REAL LIFE war that South Africa has NEVER fought in that magnitude in the last 70 years !

SADF/SANDF has NEVER deployed up to one full brigade to war in the last 70 years.

Nigeria does not need yearly brigade size war games when we already deploy about 3 to 6 brigades into real war consistently for the past 25 years all over Africa in real life war, not Rugby Football match war games of South African military.

SANDF, SAN, SAAF have NEVER graduated to fighting any real tri-service war in real life, your Rugby players army never goes into any competition against real opponents, they are always stuck with training by themselves alone in an indoor hall, arranging combat forces like oranges on a table for sale by market women !

Nigeria combines training with constant war experience in real life , we are superior to you home baby sitters military.

Tell me, how does your navy SAN, participate in joint army, navy, air force war games if you only train on brown sand dry lands with no amphibious war game, your frigates and submarines drive with Dunlop or Michelin tyres on dry land to join the army on the field?

All your SANDF training is garbage to be dumped into the incinerator. Rugby Football tactics army
.

You have been whooped bitterly. Your body is supposed to be arching as we speak.

Patchesagain:


1. We didnt have a problem in Angola - a land full of rivers and against an enemy with many amphibious vehicles
2. We is the US/UK abandoning Amphibious vehicles?

1. You actually had a problem, your lack of large scale amphibious warfare capability stopped you from landing a huge amphibious force inside Angola to cut off Cuban forces from behind and trap them to get killed in HAMMER & ANVIL battlefield strategy, that was how Nigeria defeated Biafra and broke the stalemate that was happening on land warfare only.

South Africa lacks amphibious warfare capability.

2. Citation to prove US/UK are abandoning amphibious vehicles.....prove it !
.

Patchesagain:


SANDF has never deployed a Brigade into war in 70 years? Here is a list of about 30
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_operations_of_the_South_African_Border_War

Your list does not tell us how many troops were deployed in each of those operations, it could have been 400 men for some of those deployments, a brigade is about 5,000 men and SANDF has NOT achieved that in 70 years. Nigeria does it constantly for 25 years non-stop, we will whoop your weak chicken army AZZ if we meet in combat with your rookie greenhorn ZERO experience army

You quoted Wikipedia that frauds like you can edit and post false data?

Desperado Patrick now using Wikipedia as source, it all goes into the thrash bin, no Wiki here dude !

agaugust:


1. You actually had a problem, your lack of large scale amphibious warfare capability stopped you from landing a huge amphibious force inside Angola to cut off Cuban forces from behind and trap them to get killed in HAMMER & ANVIL battlefield strategy, that was how Nigeria defeated Biafra and broke the stalemate that was happening on land warfare only.

South Africa lacks amphibious warfare capability.

2. Citation to prove US/UK are abandoning amphibious vehicles.....prove it !
.

1. You did not do that to Biafra - and your amphib ops in that war were all complete failures
1a. Such an operation does not fit our doctrine or the political situation at the time.

Also, Nigeria has not amphibious warfare capabilities either - or do you have a secret landing amphibious dock we dont know about

2.Ok
New british IFV/APC
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/scout-specialist-vehicle/

American wheeled IFV - not amphib
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stryker

Latest Bradley IFV upgrades removed Amphibious capabilities
http://www.g2mil.com/bradley.htm

What you fail to realize is that amphibious vehicles dont have proper armor, light armor means easy to kill. Since Nigeria has no real warfighting experience you do not yet know this, and since your units are expected to fight without support (because you lack training) your men are expected to cross rivers by themselves.

Water obsticles can be crossed with bridges. Dead soldiers cant be fixed.

agaugust:


[s]Your list does not tell us how many troops were deployed in each of those operations, it could have been 400 men for some of those deployments, a brigade is about 5,000 men and SANDF has NOT achieved that in 70 years. Nigeria does it constantly for 25 years non-stop, we will whoop your weak chicken army AZZ if we meet in combat with your rookie greenhorn ZERO experience army

You quoted Wikipedia that frauds like you can edit and post false data?

Desperado Patrick now using Wikipedia as source, it all goes into the thrash bin, no Wiki here dude ![/s]

Read the list

How will you defeat us when 4000 boko haram armed with muskets thrashed 20 000 of your soldiers for 5 years?

Patchesagain:


How is what Nigeria does different to "Rugby Footbal match" that we do?

The main point is - how is SANDF "rugby football tactics wrong"

I keep asking but you are never able to respond

I have answered your question again and again.

1. Nigerian training includes both land, air, sea and amphibious ops all combined. We are different from your army that is stuck on dry land.

2. The Rugby stadium tactics of SANDF is NOT fluid, it is static with set piece low mobility, it lacks fluidity needed in modern day warfare.

3. Also the SANDF training lacks the high speed mobility needed to defeat modern day fast paced asymmetric warfare. Your army war games training has ZERO asymmetric component.

I HAVE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION AND PROVED MY FACTS RIGHT WITH THE ABOVE.

5. Training > Experience you keep saying....but Nigeria has both, you have only one, we have the two. NA outclasses SANDF with that.

SANDF is a paper tiger, that is why AU and UN cannot trust you to lead any mission, Tanzanian army is your boss in Congo

Patchesagain:


Read the list

Your Wikipedia source is NOT acceptable here, I wont read garbage.

Patchesagain:


Nigeria has spent less time as a democracy than South Africa

South Africa's total democracy time =21 years. 1994 to 2015

Nigeria's total democracy time= 26 years.

1960 to 1966 until military interruption.
1979 to 1983 until mmilitary interruption
1999 to present.

Once again empty lies and ego tripping.

agaugust:


I have answered your question again and again.

1. Nigerian training includes both land, air, sea and amphibious ops all combined. We are different from your army that is stuck on dry land.

2. The Rugby stadium tactics of SANDF is NOT fluid, it is static with set piece low mobility, it lacks fluidity needed in modern day warfare.

3. Also the SANDF training lacks the high speed mobility needed to defeat modern day fast paced asymmetric warfare. Your army war games training has ZERO asymmetric component.

I HAVE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION AND PROVED MY FACTS RIGHT WITH THE ABOVE.

5. Training > Experience you keep saying....but Nigeria has both, you have only one, we have the two. NA outclasses SANDF with that.

SANDF is a paper tiger, that is why AU and UN cannot trust you to lead any mission, Tanzanian army is your boss in Congo

1. SANDF conducts air-operations (Ex Young Eagle) you do not. You have only conducted 3 Brigade Ex in a decade - so you dont train either

2. How do you conclude this? Did you watch the same video we did? where an entire Moto Inf brigade deployed to the feild and assaulted the target in under 10 min? Or where a mech inf formation performed a high speed assault?

3. How do you conclude this?

No, you make statements but you do not substantiate them.

We are world renowned for high speed high mobility warfare - it is what we are known for as I have shown by posting a study done by the USMC who tried to figure out how we do what we do

agaugust:


Your Wikipedia source is NOT acceptable here, I wont read garbage.

If you wish to claim the facts are wrong then post facts of your own.

You said we do not conduct Brigade level combat operations - I gave you a list of around 30 of them.