I recently realized that most Christians don't think about WHY they are Christians.Have you ever challenged the tenants of Christianity? Have you ever asked yourself who God really is and if he exists? I've had questions that have been on my mind since i became a born again christian and I need answers because no one has provided any satisfactory answers as far as i know.
I don't want religious answers, I don't want holistic views, I want to know the truth and I don't want biblical evidence because the bible in itself has a lot of contradictory information.If Christians have a personal relationship with God as so many of them claim then this shouldn't be too hard for them.God still speaks to his people right? right,

Is the God of the old testament the same God of the new testament?
If he is,why is there such a huge difference between them? why did the God of the old testament order women and children of rival nations killed? why not just the men?
Doesn't the bible say that God doesn't change? if they are both one and the same God,then didn't he change?
are there come people created specifically for hell fire? does God create some of us knowing where we will end up and what kind of life we will live? the bible says that Judas Iscariot was destined to betray Jesus.Are there people born for a particular evil purpose? why does God create them?

If God is all knowing and all seeing,didn't he know that the Lucifer would turn out to be his greatest adversary?why did he still go ahead to create him?
Why didn't he destroy him when he turned against him?

Why would God create humans and place them where the devil could get to them?
Why does the devil put up such a fight to win souls and God seems to do nothing? its the devil's voice we hear louder than God's voice; I'm not saying that God should fight dirty,but he is God,why can't he fight fair? many people are perishing because he doesn't have to prove himself to anyone right?

you all say faith please God but the same bible says that faith is a gift given to us by God, so how can we blame those that don't have faith? if its a gift,do we have to ask for it?
why is it that when i make negative confessions,i see the result faster than when i make positive confessions? does God enjoy making things hard for his people? does he enjoy seeing the struggle?
these are a few questions that i have, I dare those Christians who arnt afraid to ask questions about their faith to answer me.

Any Christian who never questioned is not a christian

Do you play Chess?

I'm looking for something familiar to use to discuss the issue with you.

For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

check the bolded for the reason why/implication of he "changes not".

and please dont just type for the sake of typing. It doesnt make you look good.

quite the opposite actually.


it seems about 95% of nlers have this problem, and i'm not surprised at the 98% fail rate from NECO.


are you nigerian btw.


if you have a question, read your bible yourself and ask God for understanding instead of basing your religion on other people's opinions. Unless you're actually worshipping people and not God?

in that case, you might as well join ogaga wherever he is. Or cross over to islam, buddhism or whatever.

nobody here is reinventing the wheel, as far as i can see.

@ OP

I hope you do realise that many of us are, remain and will always remain Christians despite knowing these things you point out. You may also consider that we have ways of reconciling our faith with these "anomalies". Interestingly, while not all our ways of such reconciling necessarily accord with one another (indeed not all of them are necessarily "intellectually sound" and not all of them necessarily have the stamp of integrity) there are indeed intellectually coherent (even logical) and spiritually underpinned ways of achieving the reconciliation.

The other thing you might consider is that whilst we might be ready to, we do not feel obliged in every instance to justify our manner(s) of reconciliing the apparent "anomalies".

The usual Christian mantra is "have faith" which is = Make LOTS of absurd excuses.

^^ and your post is based on the responses to this thread?

projecting again, arent we.

one thing i really hate is when people think they're doing you a favour by being a "christian" or whatever.

If you're not convinced in your own mind, then please waka pass and dont let the door hit your behind on the way out.

tpia is that you?

@enigma, Please understand what I am getting at here.I am not asking you to tell me how you adjust to these anomilies,neither am I challenging the way others do.All i am saying is there must be christians out there who have asked themselves these questions and have gotten answers. I just want to know what answers you got.What did the spirit tell you in response to the questions you asked?
@Tpia;i didnt realize you don''t understand english.What language do you speak? I'll translate the post and send it back for you.Just in case you do understand english,I said don't quote the bible back at me.Tell me where your questions led you.simple.Its people like you that make people like us who don't understand certain things hesistant to ask.I'm not looking for another religion.I simply don't want to be a christian who follows blindly so,don't let the door hit YOU on your way out!
@nuclear boy, I know the basics of the game but im no chap!

estrella:

why is it that when i make negative confessions,i see the result faster than when i make positive confessions? does God enjoy making things hard for his people? does he enjoy seeing the struggle?

you're not one of His so why is this a surprise to you?

toneyb:



tpia is that you?

yup

estrella:

@enigma, Please understand what I am getting at here.I am not asking you to tell me how you adjust to these anomilies,neither am I challenging the way others do.All i am saying is there must be christians out there who have asked themselves these questions and have gotten answers. I just want to know what answers you got.What did the spirit tell you in response to the questions you asked?
@Tpia;i didnt realize you don''t understand english.What language do you speak? I'll translate the post and send it back for you.Just in case you do understand english,I said don't quote the bible back at me.Tell me where your questions led you.simple.Its people like you that make people like us who don't understand certain things hesistant to ask.I'm not looking for another religion.I simply don't want to be a christian who follows blindly so,don't let the door hit YOU on your way out!
@nuclear boy, I know the basics of the game but im no chap!

look, instead of killing yourself over irrelevancies and acting like the sky will fall because of you, join any other religion you see fit.

Is it by force to practice Christianity? Not at all- there are too many half baked so-called christians as it is.

And i'd appreciate it if you stop lying and reveal your true reason for being in this section.

plz dont start regaling us with tales of how "you once used to be a christian but now are a satanist/muslim/hare krishna/guru maharajist/whatever".

nobody cares and it's gotten stale.


arent you the one with some story about how you dont want to do premarital intimacy and blah blah blah the other time. As i recall, your cohorts did their best to vandalize that thread on your behalf.


when you have people asking daft questions like yours, or things like "should i show my christianity by getting a tattoo of the lord's prayer on my butt, breast or back", then believe me, christianity is not by force. If you dont know what you're doing, then you shouldnt be doing it.

estrella:

@enigma, Please understand what I am getting at here.I am not asking you to tell me how you adjust to these anomilies,neither am I challenging the way others do.All i am saying is there must be christians out there who have asked themselves these questions and have gotten answers. I just want to know what answers you got.What did the spirit tell you in response to the questions you asked?

For a start your thread is titled "I Dare . . . "

I'm afraid that for me, that is the very reason I will not engage ---- beyond pointing out what I did earlier.

@tpia, You should read what the post says before you respond.I assume you just skimmed over it and went 'there Goes another atheist in the making'! I'm not interested in any other religion like i said earlier,just in case reading is hard for you too.I just have questions i am sure christians who think deep have.If you can't educate,gravitate to another post.I'm sure your facadeous sarcasm will be appreciated there
@Enigma, I apologize.I titled it I dare because of people who would first go on the defence instead of tackling the heart of the questions i have.Im not issuing a challenge.I simply want to know if any one has answers and if not,how you deal with these questions in your walk with Christ.I would really like to hear your view on the matter.

dear estrella,
welcome to the seekers club or should i say questioners club. it is questions like your own that got me out of christianity simply because the answers are not in christianity. if you examine christianity critically you will discover that it just does not have the answers to the mysteries of life. if you want the answers you have to go within yourself and find God within you. remember that jesus said that he will send the comforter to his disciples and that the comforter being the holyspirit will lead them to all truth. the holy spirit is the key to the knowledge about God and about life and the holy spirit is in every soul. all you need is how to get in touch with the holyspirit of God and this is what present day christianity has lost. so to get you started on your quest i will give you a very simple spiritual exercise to help you get in touch with the holy spirit. every night sing the word JESUS in a long drawn out note. sing it as a love song. do not bother about binding any body but rather fill your heart with love. think about all the things in life that you have to be grateful for. sing this word for at least 20 minutes and then go to bed. just before you sleep ask God to reveal the holyspirit to you. that you will like to know the truth. then go to bed and then watch your dreams. this is one of the beggining steps in your quest for the truth. if you are not comfortable with singing JESUS as a love song you can sing other holy words like Christ or GOD. try this spiritual exercise and watch what happens.

Everything I was gonna say has been said. I may just return to say more, let's see. . .

Nobody has concrete answers for you jo, they will just spin some very gullible yarn and give you to swallow.

no,you are not born again or you will not ask all these questions

estrella:

@Enigma, I apologize.I titled it I dare because of people who would first go on the defence instead of tackling the heart of the questions i have.Im not issuing a challenge.I simply want to know if any one has answers and if not,how you deal with these questions in your walk with Christ.I would really like to hear your view on the matter.

There really is no need to apologise and I am sorry too if I came across as harsh. In truth, I don't think anyone can provide a wholly satisfactory answer for you. Ultimately, you must find the place of reconciliation for yourself with the help of the Holy Spirit.

I may make a later post dealing with some of your specific questions but in terms of the more general points I can only give a few basic ideas of how I find my own reconciliation. It starts with accepting as the truth that Jesus is God who became manifested in human flesh - Emmanuel, God with us. Now, whilst there can be intellectual explanations of this, ultimately it is a matter of faith inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Second, it comes with taking the words and teachings of Christ, to the best of my intellectual and spiritual understanding, as the ultimate. It is through the prism of the words and teachings of Christ that I read and try to understand the whole Bible. Take an example: Jesus Himself gave teachings which in an intellectual and sometimes literal sense contradict what is in parts of the Old Testament ----  e.g. "you have heard it said . . . but I tell you . . . "; "for your hardness of heart Moses said . . . but I tell you . . ."  On the other hand, Jesus Himself held the Old Testament ("the Scriptures" in high regard! An apparent contradiction? Maybe not. Remember Jesus Himself said He came to fulfil "the law".  My summary of these is that, ultimately, the anomalies boil down to man's shortcomings either in understanding or in expression - and this leads to the point in the next paragraph.

The Bible itself is a book that comprises many parts or types of writing: narratives, history, sayings, law, prophecy etc etc. Not everything said in the Bible is necessarily said by God. Take the book of Proverbs: some misguided people will take all of the sayings in that book as though they were sayings/words of God; on the other hand it is readily obvious that it is a collection of inter alia extant sayings etc --- and when looked at properly some of those sayings require further thought or fleshing or contextualisation in order to make sense and in order even for some of them not to contradict one another. In Nigeria we have a lot of traditional proverbs: many of them if taken at face value will seem wrong and contradictory of others - especially in a modern/developed world; but if we place each in the context of its expression we can understand the proper logic of the proverb.

Take one: "Ile oba ti o jo, ewa l'o bu si" ------ if the King's palace gets burnt down, it only adds to its beauty! Crazy? I'm sure you can rationalise and contextualise it!

With regard to some of the apparently "more wicked" historical parts of the Bible e.g. God giving instructions to go and "utterly" strike the Amalekites, one way of looking at this is to consider that the expression or setting down of the story is perhaps coloured by the perspective of the story teller. I am not denying (a) that such passages are difficult or (b) that my approach is open to legitimate logical criticism. I only put it up as one consideration ---- I don't think anyone can deny that God is being seriously misrepresented by many people today. While I do not place Bible authors on the same footing as the modern charlatans at all, I am simply saying that man's expression or representation of God can often be coloured by his own experiences or even prejudices. This takes me back to the point about reading the whole Bible through the prism of the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself ---- for that is where you will begin to find the answers in the quest for reconciliation.

Okuko, rie ogugu! "Unu si m rie onwu?"
Okuko, hapu ogugu! "Unu si  aguu gbuo m?"

Fowl, eat praying mantis! "Do you want me to die?"
Fowl, let praying mantis be! "Do you want me to starve to death?"

-An Idiom of the Igbo people

Enigma:

There really is no need to apologise and I am sorry too if I came across as harsh. In truth, I don't think anyone can provide a wholly satisfactory answer for you. Ultimately, you must find the place of reconciliation for yourself with the help of the Holy Spirit.

I may make a later post dealing with some of your specific questions but in terms of the more general points I can only give a few basic ideas of how I find my own reconciliation. It starts with accepting as the truth that Jesus is God who became manifested in human flesh - Emmanuel, God with us. Now, whilst there can be intellectual explanations of this, ultimately it is a matter of faith inspired by the Holy Spirit.

See what I mean, why should she believe in the first place or why do you believe, you just accepted just like that? or because it was more convenient?

Second, it comes with taking the words and teachings of Christ, to the best of my intellectual and spiritual understanding, as the ultimate. I[b]t is through the prism of the words and teachings of Christ that I read and try to understand the whole Bible. [/b]Take an example: Jesus Himself gave teachings which in an intellectual and sometimes literal sense contradict what is in parts of the Old Testament ----  e.g. "you have heard it said . . . but I tell you . . . "; "for your hardness of heart Moses said . . . but I tell you . . ."  On the other hand, Jesus Himself held the Old Testament ("the Scriptures" in high regard! An apparent contradiction? Maybe not. Remember Jesus Himself said He came to fulfil "the law".  My summary of these is that, ultimately, the anomalies boil down to man's shortcomings either in understanding or in expression - and this leads to the point in the next paragraph.

In order words she should first just accept the whole bible as truth without opening it an when she does open it she should always skew her perception with the words of christ eh? Nice.

The Bible itself is a book that comprises many parts or types of writing: narratives, history, sayings, law, prophecy etc etc. Not everything said in the Bible is necessarily said by God. Take the book of Proverbs: some misguided people will take all of the sayings in that book as though they were sayings/words of God; on the other hand it is readily obvious that it is a collection of inter alia extant sayings etc --- and when looked at properly some of those sayings require further thought or fleshing or contextualisation in order to make sense and in order even for some of them not to contradict one another. In Nigeria we have a lot of traditional proverbs: many of them if taken at face value will seem wrong and contradictory of others - especially in a modern/developed world; but if we place each in the context of its expression we can understand the proper logic of the proverb.

At least you are honest about accepting that some of it were people's personal thoughts.

With regard to some of the apparently "more wicked" historical parts of the Bible e.g. God giving instructions to go and "utterly" strike the Amalekites, one way of looking at this is to consider that the expression or setting down of the story is perhaps coloured by the perspective of the story teller. I am not denying (a) that such passages are difficult or (b) that my approach is open to legitimate logical criticism. I only put it up as one consideration ---- I don't think anyone can deny that God is being seriously misrepresented by many people today. While I do not place Bible authors on the same footing as the modern charlatans at all, I am simply saying that man's expression or representation of God can often be coloured by his own experiences or even prejudices. This takes me back to the point about reading the whole Bible through the prism of the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself ---- for that is where you will begin to find the answers in the quest for reconciliation.

The question is could Moses not have been just like reverend king? and yet again you ask her to skew her perception to accommodate genocide, way to go.

@enigma, you broke that down well enough for me to grasp.I do agree with you on most of the points you raised.Thanks a bunch!
@adetoru, and you are? I suppose you magically had ALL the answers to the questions you had the instant you got born again? There's nothing wrong with asking questions you know.How else will you know whether you're following blindly or following becasue you want to?
@benodic, Bro, As scary as that sound,I'll give it a try!

estrella:

@enigma, you broke that down well enough for me to grasp.I do agree with you on most of the points you raised.Thanks a bunch!

It was a pleasure estrella; I'm very confident you'll be fine; God bless.

@poster, I must really confess that reading thru this whole post, I feared, my fear is for the unknown
Really, at times when I think of some things, all I just conclude in my mind is, It is because he is God, and he is more than what my heart can ever imagine. I was praying this morning about something bothering me and the only thing I kept asking is , God, why, u are the one that created me, why are u allowing this to happen to me, but u know what, he is GOD, he knows better,
Take for instance, there are some things see in the Bible, I just flip through, I believe not all the words in the bible are meant for me, we have letters written to different places, letter to the galatians, to the corinths and so on, and I cant but conclude in my mind that it is only that which I can actually understand beyond reasonble doubt that I can work with
I view the bible at times as a newspaper, newspapers are divided into different sections, sports, economy, stories, business, education etc, all of these things are necessary in the world where we live but is it every of the section that we read when we buy the newspaper?nope.
The best way to answer this questions is to TALK to God himself, no pastor can even tell u cos none of them was born as a saint, we are all flesh and so might give different interpretations to things, ask God in his supremacy,
[color=#770077][b]Is the God of the old testament the same God of the new testament?[/[/b]color]
Yes he is, it's still the same God, the way you treat a 5 year old baby will be different from the way u will trea an adult, all the same, does that make u different?
To every of your other question, it is just because he is GOD, who cannot be questioned

afrobaby:

@poster, I must really confess that reading thru this whole post, I feared, my fear is for the unknown
Really, at times when I think of some things, all I just conclude in my mind is, It is because he is God, and he is more than what my heart can ever imagine. I was praying this morning about something bothering me and the only thing I kept asking is , God, why, u are the one that created me, why are u allowing this to happen to me, but u know what, he is GOD, he knows better,
Take for instance, there are some things see in the Bible, I just flip through, I believe not all the words in the bible are meant for me, we have letters written to different places, letter to the galatians, to the corinths and so on, and I cant but conclude in my mind that it is only that which I can actually understand beyond reasonble doubt that I can work with
I view the bible at times as a newspaper, newspapers are divided into different sections, sports, economy, stories, business, education etc, all of these things are necessary in the world where we live but is it every of the section that we read when we buy the newspaper?nope.
The best way to answer this questions is to TALK to God himself, no pastor can even tell u cos none of them was born as a saint, we are all flesh and so might give different interpretations to things, ask God in his supremacy,
[color=#770077]Is the God of the old testament the same God of the new testament?[/[/b]color]
[b]Yes he is, it's still the same God, the way you treat a 5 year old baby will be different from the way u will trea an adult, all the same, does that make u different?
To every of your other question, it is just because he is GOD, who cannot be questioned

Not when it comes to the issue of human life my dear, please where in the bible does it say God cannot be questioned or is it just a Nigerian thing?

@Afrobaby, You know what? That's thr clearest thing I have gotten so far.You are quite right.No matter what we go through,God is still God.He is the only one who has the answer and the pnly one we should go to for them.May he lead you to the stillness of his heart where you can hear his thoughts concerning you clearly.
@Enigma, Tallking to all of you made me realise the depth of God'd personality.I'm fine already! Thank you all!
@chrisbenogar, I think what Afrobaby was trying to say is that You can talk to God about your issues and get answers.She isn't saying God can't be talked to or questioned.

estrella:


@chrisbenogar, I think what Afrobaby was trying to say is that You can talk to God about your issues and get answers.She isn't saying God can't be talked to or questioned.

With all due respect let us cut the crap, yes you can talk to God just as you can talk to the blue unicorn that created Nigeria but you will never get any answer from them because God like the blue unicorn does not exist. Better still tell those that have heard from God what his explanation was about the genocides in the bible.

Chrisbenogor:

With all due respect let us cut the crap, yes you can talk to God just as you can talk to the blue unicorn that created Nigeria but you will never get any answer from them because God like the blue unicorn does not exist. Better still tell those that have heard from God what his explanation was about the genocides in the bible.

I cant believe U just said God does not exist, that is the worst thing I've ever read on this forum

afrobaby:

I cant believe U just said God does not exist, that is the worst thing I've ever read on this forum

Yes, God or Gods do not exist all that exists are stories, culture, traditions, moral values and life styles that men created and ascribe to what ever form of God they choose or conceive.

toneyb:

Yes, God or Gods do not exist all that exists are stories, culture, traditions, moral values and life styles that men created and ascribe to what ever form of God they choose or conceive.

these are the things i read that makes my belly ache . . . . . . .passing innuendos and absolute LIES as truth. . .shakes head

toneyb:

Yes, God or Gods do not exist all that exists are stories, culture, traditions, moral values and life styles that men created and ascribe to what ever form of God they choose or conceive.

Whats ur proof of Gods nonexistence?

noetic16:

these are the things i read that makes my belly ache . . . . . . .passing innuendos and absolute LIES as truth. . .shakes head

Can you point to the existence of any God on its own as mazaje loves putting it outside man made stories(about such a God), man made culture, traditions, Man's societal influence and acceptance? We have various stories, myths, cultural, moral and traditional values that men created and attributed to the various concept of Gods they all imagined. No God has ever been shown to exists only man made stories, idea, traditions, cultural values and lifestyles. The existence of so many different religions and God concept like everything else shows that they are ALL man made.

toba:

Whats your proof of Gods nonexistence?

It's simple ALL Gods are creation of men. When one considers all the fanciful creatures that have been made up by the imagination of human beings one must admit men created all their favorite God or Gods as well. After all, mankind has demonstrably invented thousands of god-myths over the years.

So an easy way to look at this question is to compare it to someone else who we all know was invented by mankind: Santa Claus.

What is the evidence for the non-existence of Santa Claus? What lack of evidence do we have for the existence of Santa Claus? There is not a single argument that has ever been made to support the existence of "God" that cannot be applied in some way to support the existence of Santa Claus.