Zodiac61:

Forgive me for being s.t.u.p.i.d., but is the God of the old testament different from the god of the new testament? In your attempt to re create god, you find yourself having to twist logic.
Is god love?
Genesis 6 - God drowned all living beings (his creations) save 8 humans and two of each animal.
Genesis 19 - Sodom and Gomorrah - God kills every living being there (innocent or not) Save Lot and his family (Lot's wife he turned into a pillar of salt.
Genesis 7 - God punishes the Egyptians for the sins of one "person".
There are a lot more examples of god not showing the love that he expects humans to show.
Before I get responses about Jesus coming to repeal (or whatever excuses people try to make for god) remember Matthew 5:17-19
" 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

The God of the old testament is the god of the news testament. The quotes attributed to Jesus by the author of Matthew makes it clear that this is the case.
My answer to the question posed is, therefore, yes.
 

I thought u will also mention something like " stoning people to death"
Remember that the christian God has power to reverse and restore to life. just like he did in the case of JOB. He can restore the yrs which the locust caterpillar, Joel 2:25 when u kill u do not have power to bring to life so u are not the same wit hthe christian God
the examples u have sited above are incomplete and inconclusive . Demonstrate the innocence of the punished
in relation to their punishment. how is their judgment is unjust/undeserving. Remember if u think the bible is a fake these stories ought not bother you cos they neva happen according to ur theory esp if u are an evolutionist.
GOD is love I neva said he is hate but that he can be angered.
You can site examples of how u think an All-loving God by ur understanding was supposed to act in those circumstances in the same condition of temperature and pressure and time frame
the Christian God demands u to be perfect like ur father in heaven is perfect. He cannot ask u to do something he cant do. When u act like him, he describes u as one walking in love cos that is who he is. If there is anything the Christian God required to be done that he himself did not do in the given circumstance plz point it out.

davidylan:

i have to admit . . . the devil is a smart dude!

What is this deluded fellow saying . . . . .Once the bubble of his delusions have been burst open he still closes his eyes and attributes things to the mythical devil. . . .So its the mythical devil that is telling the people here to write what is in your "holy book of god" eh? Id it the mythical devil that is telling the posters here to write that your supposed all loving creator much more erratic than the allah you love to hate? . . . .Keep on swimming in your bubble of delusions. . . .

I thought u will also mention something like " stoning people to death"
Remember that the christian God has power to reverse and restore to life. just like he did in the case of JOB. He can restore the yrs which the locust caterpillar,  Joel  2:25 when u kill u do not have power to bring to life so u are not the same wit hthe christian God
the examples u have sited above are incomplete and inconclusive . Demonstrate the innocence of the punished
in relation to their punishment. how is their judgment is unjust/undeserving. Remember if u think the bible is a fake these stories ought not bother you cos they neva happen according to your theory esp if u are an evolutionist.
GOD is love I neva said he is hate but that he can be angered.
You can site examples of how u think an All-loving God by your understanding was supposed to act in those circumstances in the same condition of temperature and pressure and time frame
the Christian God demands u to be perfect like your father in heaven is perfect. He cannot ask u to do something he cant do. [size=16pt]When u act like him, he describes u as one walking in love cos that is who he is[/size]. If there is anything the Christian God required to be done that he himself did not do in the given circumstance plz point it out.

uh-huh? so, when i act "like him" by going on genocidal rampages, murdering whole cities, both the innocent, women n children, then i'm gonna be described by him as one walking in love cos "its who he is"? where they do dat at??

chinedumo:

I thought u will also mention something like " stoning people to death"
Remember that the christian God has power to reverse and restore to life. just like he did in the case of JOB. He can restore the yrs which the locust caterpillar,  Joel  2:25 when u kill u do not have power to bring to life so u are not the same wit hthe christian God
the examples u have sited above are incomplete and inconclusive . Demonstrate the innocence of the punished
in relation to their punishment. how is their judgment is unjust/undeserving. Remember if u think the bible is a fake these stories ought not bother you cos they neva happen according to your theory esp if u are an evolutionist.
GOD is love I neva said he is hate but that he can be angered.
You can site examples of how u think an All-loving God by your understanding was supposed to act in those circumstances in the same condition of temperature and pressure and time frame
the Christian God demands u to be perfect like your father in heaven is perfect. He cannot ask u to do something he cant do. When u act like him, he describes u as one walking in love cos that is who he is. If there is anything the Christian God required to be done that he himself did not do in the given circumstance plz point it out.

Like I said, twisted logic.
It is always amusing when I hear about the power of the Christian god to bring to restore life. I think that you will find that there is nothing original about that statement. Every one who believes in a god will tell you that their god has the power to restore life.
You bandy the word 'evolutionist' like an insult. I do not think that the bible is a fake (thinking allows for the possibility that it is true). I am saying that the bible is not the inerrant word of god, I am also saying that there is nothing divinely inspired about the bible.
Trying to excuse cruel behaviour on the part of god by explaining that he had to do what he did because of the time and circumstances is, frankly, dishonest. An omnipotent and loving god should judge everyone by the same standards, no matter where they were or when they lived. If a human being acted today in the manner the old testament god acted, we will all be shouting genocide. Why make excuses for him?

There are many strange religious beliefs and doctrines in the world - from men reincarnating as rats to wine turning into blood. But one must say that the Hellfire teaching, the idea that God has made a fire to burn people for eternity takes the cup. That a man who lived a life of "sin" for, say, 80 years can be sentenced to an eternity in a hot house is just. . .

@ Zodiac 61

Trying to excuse cruel behaviour on the part of god by explaining that he had to do what he did because of the time and circumstances is, frankly, dishonest. An omnipotent and loving god should judge everyone by the same standards, no matter where they were or when they lived. If a human being acted today in the manner the old testament acted, we will all be shouting genocide. Why make excuses for him?

thanks for echoing my thoughts on this matter.

growing up as a christian i had a very big problem reconciling the God that is supposed to be love and the one in the old testament that sends the Israelites to wipe out nations filled with people that he created too.

my spiritual experiences showed me that God does not kill anyone because It is love and love alone. It gives us an infinite opportunity, lifetime after lifetime to become lovers of life like It and then become perfect vessels for the outflow of its love.

It is only the absence of love that turn people into killers in the name of God

@ benodic,

I am interested in knowing how you reconciled the god of the old testament with the loving god. Your post does not deal with this point.

@zodiac61

there was no reconciliation to be made.

i discovered that the god depicted in the old testament is not the supreme God at all.

Yahweh is the tribal God of the jews and of course the jews being his chosen people, he has no qualms sending them to wipe out other nations who do not recognize him. he is a jealous God indeed.

through my spiritual experiences i was able to know that the Supreme God is love and love alone and really does not care if you worship It or not.

It is interested in only one thing and that is that soul grows spiritually into its full divine nature which is LOVE.

chinedumo:

If @tpiah theory is true then @jagunlabi  according to him hate and love are part of the same coin ,u jagunlabi  concurred. you called it human emotion and ego. then thefore this egoless state u are talking about is the absence of both love and hate. so your opinion of the ideal/perfect state called Egolessness is is to do away with both hate and love  and not just the hate. I wonder where u are getting to?

That's an astute point there.   Jagunlabi, care to expatiate?

Purist:

That's an astute point there.   Jagunlabi, care to expatiate?

I would love to expansiate because it is not dificult, but i have decided to stay on the sideline as far as this thread is concerned.
Perhaps benodic can contribute.

@

To answer the title question, "Ofcourse it is!"

The manifestation of wrath itself is a SIN.So the "all loving God" broke his own rules there.An all-loving being, whatever that being might be, cannot be wrathful.All-loving and wrathfulness is an oxymoron.So therefore, the bible god's desired reputation as an all-loving deity is in variance to his wrathful nature.That is why the bible god failed the test for the position of the supreme being in the most woeful fashion.

Don't confuse God's justice with the way we see and understand wrath. God alone is just and hence He being wrathful is justified. In fact when He is, its because He is forced to be such. When any set of humans reach that stage where their purposeless existence becomes a serious threat to others, then God who is Creator, and who has the absolute right to take back life, can demonstrate anger, which in no way can be seen as being contrary to His attribute of love.

God is absolute and we dare not use human values and standards to judge Him. He alone prescribes and describes the concept of good and evil.

@ chinedumo

Love is the nature of God. Agape love to be precise. But God himself does not condone evil but punishes evildoers. He according to his son Jesus has prepared a place where there will be groaning and gnashing of teeth eternally.

God doesn't have to eternally punish evildoers to prove justice. That thought is diabolic by nature. Satan is at the heart of such a thought, and not the bible. The problem with some Christians is their gross ignorance of biblical themes. They run away with a verse or two, and make a religion on such.

The absolute reality is that Jesus didn't die on Calvary to punish sinners eternally. He died to save sinners from sin. That was not a threat. To argue that Jesus' death if refused by evildoers will land them in a place to be punished eternally, makes God out to be threat. Evil doers will be punished alright, but not eternally.

Besides, if we are expected to live on the earth when it has been made new, then where will this place of eternal punishment be? Secondly such an argument brings into question whether or not really dealt with the sin problem after all. As long as evil doers are being punished sin will be present, and it also means that Satan will be present. As long as these beings remain alive, then they would have been given eternal life.

John 3:16 made it abundantly clear that only those who believe on Christ will have eternal life. As long as evil doers are being punished, it means they would still be alive, and if they are alive for eternity, it means they have eternal life.

You can't have the redeemed enjoying the new earth, and its glory, and the evildoers somewhere else being punished eternally in the same new earth. Not only is it a stupid thought, but ridiculous if you ask me.

The weight of biblical evidence is against such false teachings.

@jagunlabi

I would love to expansiate because it is not dificult, but i have decided to stay on the sideline as far as this thread is concerned.
Perhaps benodic can contribute.

i have already made my contributions and please i wish you would stop sitting by the side line and get into the fray.

your fine insights is really needed on this thread. please do not mind chinedumo

@ benodic

growing up as a christian i had a very big problem reconciling the God that is supposed to be love and the one in the old testament that sends the Israelites to wipe out nations filled with people that he created too.

The only persons God made as humans were Adam and Eve. The others descended from them. Secondly, having allowed humans to come into existence doesn't mean He doesn't have the right to take back their lives if He sees fit. You are in no position to question the Creator's right to take life, since you didn't grant life to anyone. Keep that in mind please.

my spiritual experiences showed me that God does not kill anyone because It is love and love alone. It gives us an infinite opportunity, lifetime after lifetime to become lovers of life like It and then become perfect vessels for the outflow of its love.

Obviously, and unfortunately, in all of your experiences you never spent the time to learn the truth about who God really is. Its never too late though. God has His servants that will guide you, and this fora provide quite a few.

It is only the absence of love that turn people into killers in the name of God

One doesn't exhibit love naturally. Its not a default attribute of humans. We have to learn it. We can only act out in our lives the spirit of love if our parents and members of the community did a good job in teaching the attributes of love. Don't forget that sinful tendencies pass down from one generation to another. We are all born with selfish desires and attributes. Its only as we come to a knowledge of God, and allow Him to take control that we are able to reflect His attributes.

@bobbyaf

You are in no position to question the Creator's right to take life, since you didn't grant life to anyone. Keep that in mind please.

i believe that i have every right to question God's actions since i am It's son. if my father takes any action that i do not understand it will be very stupid of me not to try and find out why.

Obviously, and unfortunately, in all of your experiences you never spent the time to learn the truth about who God really is. Its never too late though. God has His servants that will guide you, and this fora provide quite a few.

my dear i do not need any one to tell me the truth about God. God is my father and Its spirit is within me.

if there is any thing i need to know about God, i simply go to the temple within and ask. i always get answers. the truth is never in any book but is within you.

of course i do not expect you to understand. but my experiences remain my authority and no one can take that away from me. God can never be like a human

being. creating people with one hand and destroying them with the other hand. why don't you try asking God directly instead of relying on what is written in a book.

@ jagunlabi
Jagunlabi, ur throwin urself into a hopeless vortex of confusion.
Are you saying the person who makes a rule is neccessarily under the rule. Are you saying that when a father makes it a le that his son not cross the road without holdin the hand of an adult, that he, the father must then hold the hands of another adult when he is crossin the road.

It is very simple, God made morality for our own good, he is the objective power that can do whatever it wants without it being "wrong" as a father can cross the road because he can rightly observe what is going on in his surroundings. . . shikena

And please I believe, you have the right to air your view, and I would like to hear them too. . . theres no need for this to be some kind of insular thread, that looks at things from only one, convenient point of view.

@ benodic

You have a lot to learn.

Bobbyaf:

@ benodic

You have a lot to learn.

And you too, most especially.We all still have a lot to learn.

streetwize:

@ jagunlabi
Jagunlabi, your throwin urself into a hopeless vortex of confusion.
Are you saying the person who makes a rule is neccessarily under the rule. Are you saying that when a father makes it a le that his son not cross the road without holdin the hand of an adult, that he, the father must then hold the hands of another adult when he is crossin the road.

It is very simple, God made morality for our own good, he is the objective power that can do whatever it wants without it being "wrong" as a father can cross the road because he can rightly observe what is going on in his surroundings. . . shikena

And please I believe, you have the right to air your view, and I would like to hear them too. . . theres no need for this to be some kind of insular thread, that looks at things from only one, convenient point of view.

Streetwize, i don't think that i am the one in a hopeless vortex of confusion here.The problem with this kind of discussion is that we hold different views of what God is, meaning that we are not all referring to the same entity.My idea of what God is is quite different from yours, so we are not on the same page from the get go.

Your own idea of God is that being in the bible called, yahweh or jehovah.An entity which i see as just the tribal deity of the ancient jews and which i totally reject as the supreme being that is the creator of the universe and aeverything in it.Your idea of God is that tyrannical and sadistic entity in the bible OT, while mine is the everloving and everpresent being of pure energy, pure spirit, that bathe all creation.So do you see the problem in this discussion?Because you and i do not share the same view of what God is, we will always be at variance at every step.So what is the point?

On your father and son analogy, which is very faulty as regards to this topic, the rule given by that father to his child comes out of pure fatherly love for the child, and thus his concern for the child's safety.It has nothing to do with the father's status as the, "Father" who has the right to order his child around just because he is the father.If the child does not heed his father's order and gets hit by a car, it is not only the child that will suffer the consequence of his disobedience, but also his father, bcause the two are bonded by LOVE into one.Whatever happens to the child, happens to the father.When the child hurts, his father will also hurt.That happens because of the bond of oneness borne out of LOVE from father to son and vice versa.And that is the same relationship between us and my own view of God, our supreme creator.That is one.

Secondly, when such a father teaches his son not to take another man's life because it is evil, and then turns around and kills a whole town, the child has every right to ask his father questions and even see his father as an evil person because of his genocidal actions.If the bible god feels that killing is wrong then he should lead by example, or else he is just another egoic and cheap tyrannical being. "Might is right" is just another motto for tyrants - whether of this world or of the heavens somewhere - and for their followers/admirers to identify with.Beings who are of love can never identify with such a motto, never ever.

To reiterate this point one more time, the god of the bible, to me, is NOT the supreme creator being, but rather an IMPOSTOR.He has way too many faults to even come anywhere near qualifying for the post of the supreme creator GOD.And so says the bible.That is the way i see it.

benodic:

@jagunlabi
i have already made my contributions and please i wish you would stop sitting by the side line and get into the fray.

your fine insights is really needed on this thread. please do not mind chinedumo

Very well.I will make a few more contributions to the topic be4 i quit finally.

If @tpiah theory is true then @jagunlabi  according to him hate and love are part of the same coin ,u jagunlabi  concurred. you called it human emotion and ego. then thefore this egoless state u are talking about is the absence of both love and hate. so your opinion of the ideal/perfect state called Egolessness is is to do away with both hate and love  and not just the hate. I wonder where u are getting to?

Purist:

That's an astute point there.   Jagunlabi, care to expatiate?

Love and hate are two sides of the same coin as far as egoic beings like us human beings (and yahweh, obviously, judging by his actions in the OT bible) go.Such an edict applies ONLY to we humans and other not so spiritually developed entities like the OT yahwehs of the ancient middle eastern desert world, and that was why i concurred.

The state of dualism borne out of the egoic state of consciousness, of being, enables love and hate to exist as two sides of the same coin.In the egoless state(or the kingdom of heaven) however, this state of dualism does not exist.There is only one state and that state is LOVE, pure and unadulterated LOVE.The state or nature of the true GOD.

This is the state of being that we humans are moving towards, the egoless state or the kingdom of heaven as the christians would call it.The kingdom of heaven is not a physcal place to be but a state of consciousness, a state of being.

In other words, the egoless state is a state achieved through the shedding of all emotions that can be seen as the opposite of love, like hate, wrath, anger, jealousy, etc etc.
Nobody will make the kingdom of heaven carrying all those baggages of negative emotions, and that includes yahweh himself.

jagunlabi

jagunlabi:

Streetwize, i don't think that i am the one in a hopeless vortex of confusion here.The problem with this kind of discussion is that we hold different views of what God is, meaning that we are not all referring to the same entity.My idea of what God is is quite different from yours, so we are not on the same page from the get go.

Your own idea of God is that being in the bible called, yahweh or jehovah.An entity which i see as just the tribal deity of the ancient jews and which i totally reject as the supreme being that is the creator of the universe and aeverything in it.Your idea of God is that tyrannical and sadistic entity in the bible OT, while mine is the everloving and everpresent being of pure energy, pure spirit, that bathe all creation.So do you see the problem in this discussion?Because you and i do not share the same view of what God is, we will always be at variance at every step.So what is the point?

On your father and son analogy, which is very faulty as regards to this topic, the rule given by that father to his child comes out of pure fatherly love for the child, and thus his concern for the child's safety.It has nothing to do with the father's status as the, "Father" who has the right to order his child around just because he is the father.If the child does not heed his father's order and gets hit by a car, it is not only the child that will suffer the consequence of his disobedience, but also his father, bcause the two are bonded by LOVE into one.Whatever happens to the child, happens to the father.When the child hurts, his father will also hurt.That happens because of the bond of oneness borne out of LOVE from father to son and vice versa.And that is the same relationship between us and my own view of God, our supreme creator.That is one.

Secondly, when such a father teaches his son not to take another man's life because it is evil, and then turns around and kills a whole town, the child has every right to ask his father questions and even see his father as an evil person because of his genocidal actions.If the bible god feels that killing is wrong then he should lead by example, or else he is just another egoic and cheap tyrannical being. "Might is right" is just another motto for tyrants - whether of this world or of the heavens somewhere - and for their followers/admirers to identify with.Beings who are of love can never identify with such a motto, never ever.

To reiterate this point one more time, the god of the bible, to me, is NOT the supreme creator being, but rather an IMPOSTOR.He has way too many faults to even come anywhere near qualifying for the post of the supreme creator GOD.And so says the bible.That is the way i see it.

You have yourself just defined how God acts. . . thank you very much, . . All he tells us to do are out of LOVE as you said, perfect father-son relationship. You will find that everythin God commands is for our own good and not just for some "Hey break your CD player and throw it at the TV" control thing.

As that child would probably grumble that "what the hell is wrong with my dad, I hate holding hands" same way ur grumblin right now. perfectly understandable

And for your killing thing, I have also addressed it
Do you expect father to hold the hand of another adult when he is crossing the street, since he should "Lead by example"

As I have said before, all what God tells us to do is for our own good, he is the objective power and his decisions, which may not be understood by you, as that child wont understand why his dad chooses to crosss the road without help, are well beyond the commands he gives us

Mudley313:

uh-huh? so, when i act "like him" by going on genocidal rampages, murdering whole cities, both the innocent, women n children, then i'm gonna be described by him as one walking in love cos "its who he is"? where they do dat at??

if u are required by him to do so. Cos the christian God said of himself I am the LORD(YAHWEH), I changeth not. God, in his unchanging and non evolving nature acts today just as he acted in the past and will act in the future. and therefore if the conditions/context of the past apply to the present, God will do the same in the present (or he will use you(his disciples and also his creations/creatures) cos of his nature of Justice, equity and love. many a time in the present God shows more mercy in comparison with the same event, of the same context in the past. But more mercy means more consequence and higher standards cos the christian God must be just.

Zodiac61:

Like I said, twisted logic.
It is always amusing when I hear about the power of the Christian god to bring to restore life. I think that you will find that there is nothing original about that statement. Every one who believes in a god will tell you that their god has the power to restore life.
You bandy the word 'evolutionist' like an insult. I do not think that the bible is a fake (thinking allows for the possibility that it is true). I am saying that the bible is not the inerrant word of god, I am also saying that there is nothing divinely inspired about the bible.
Trying to excuse cruel behaviour on the part of god by explaining that he had to do what he did because of the time and circumstances is, frankly, dishonest. An omnipotent and loving god should judge everyone by the same standards, no matter where they were or when they lived. If a human being acted today in the manner the old testament acted, we will all be shouting genocide. Why make excuses for him?

chinedumo:

if u are required by him to do so. Cos the christian God said of himself I am the LORD(YAHWEH), I changeth not. God, in his unchanging and non evolving nature acts today just as he acted in the past and will act in the future. and therefore if the conditions/context of the past apply to the present, God will do the same in the present (or he will use you(his disciples and also his creations/creatures) cos of his nature of Justice, equity and love. many a time in the present God shows more mercy in comparison with the same event, of the same context in the past. But more mercy means more consequence and higher standards cos the christian God must be just.

@Zodiac61 Justice requires that u treat people specifically and not generally unless the factor is a general one i.e specific to that group of people. to whom much is given much is expected. the way u ur self according to Jesus judge that is the exact way u will be judged. when someone is deaf/hard of hearing you might punish the hearing ones for disobeying orders but the case is different for the deaf u have to deal with him specifically. that is why the christian God is not man. If u know him and he has judged you and u also are honest u will testify that he is faithful and just. when i SAY fake bible i mean if it is faulty unreliable inerrant word of god and humanly alone inspired cos this is contrary to is claim of it self. if the bible is a false reflection of the christian God that is not hard to deduce when one sees/knows God. God has a character of unchangability, non evolving and so his reflection must present God has the same yesterday today and for ever

@ bobbyaf

@ benodic

You have a lot to learn.

of course i seriously agree with you. i really have a lot to learn.

but i will prefer to learn it from God directly and not through a book written thousands of years ago filled with human errors of translation and interpreted by people as it favours them.

so i have become the seeker of truth as it is and this seeking led me to the temple within me in which the spirit of God dwells and through which i have come to know that my father God was not a killer, is not a killer and  will never be a killer.

Its nature is love and love alone.

thanks jagunlabi for coming back and making such beautiful posts.

Bobbyaf:

@

Don't confuse God's justice with the way we see and understand wrath. God alone is just and hence He being wrathful is justified. In fact when He is, its because He is forced to be such. When any set of humans reach that stage where their purposeless existence becomes a serious threat to others, then God who is Creator, and who has the absolute right to take back life, can demonstrate anger, which in no way can be seen as being contrary to His attribute of love.

God is absolute and we dare not use human values and standards to judge Him. He alone prescribes and describes the concept of good and evil.

By The standard of the christian God someone who is guilty of a particular sin is not allowed to judged/punish that sin in others otherwise his judgment of that sin will be visited on him too. God in his perfect state is justified to judge/punish all sins

benodic:

@zodiac61

there was no reconciliation to be made.

i discovered that the god depicted in the old testament is not the supreme God at all.

Yahweh is the tribal God of the jews and of course the jews being his chosen people, he has no qualms sending them to wipe out other nations who do not recognize him. he is a jealous God indeed.

through my spiritual experiences i was able to know that the Supreme God is love and love alone and really does not care if you worship It or not.

It is interested in only one thing and that is that soul grows spiritually into its full divine nature which is LOVE.

any loving being is jealous. God will not force himself on u. Love those not erode right and wrong. Love can forgive wrong. it is wrong not reciprocate acts of love by repaying good with evil. God love should stir up ur love for him. it is within his right to demand ur reciprocation. it is wrong when the person asking/demanding love from u hasn't shown love to u. God had legitimate grounds to be angry with ISRAEL especially after promising to comply and pledging their undying love to God and also blessing and cursing them self in the event they obey or transgress
The same God has no qualms about wiping the same ISRAEL, his creations out should they follow the other nations to commit abominations like BURNING their children, taking INNOCENT lives, braking pledges/promises, pursuing vanity/vain things .wasting his resources polluting and corrupting the earth etc. God promised never to cause the ceasing of existence of Israel cos he is a faithful God( he made that promise to some of his servants, he cannot break it though does servants are dead) Israel took that as liberty but God showed them that he cannot make a/another promise contrary to his nature. he punished them severely almost wiping them out as a natio0n. if among the other nations God found some one faithful like he found in Israel he would have interceded for his nation and God would have spared. cos he will not punish the righteous with the unrighteous. if he does then their is no need being righteous since the righteous and the unrighteous suffer the same fate. God by punishing the righteous with the unrighteous will be going against his nature/word of justice equity faithfulness righteousness which he promotes and LOVE.

@ benodic

of course i seriously agree with you. i really have a lot to learn.

but i will prefer to learn it from God directly and not through a book written thousands of years ago filled with human errors of translation and interpreted by people as it favours them.

I had no clue you were a comedian, lol. Wish you all the luck,

so i have become the seeker of truth as it is and this seeking led me to the temple within me in which the spirit of God dwells and through which i have come to know that my father God was not a killer, is not a killer and will never be a killer.

Who or what told you He was a killer?

Its nature is love and love alone.

So He cannot be seen as being just huh? He is loving but never just according to your theory. I am left to wonder how did you come to find out about your God were it not for the bible?

benodic:

@ bobbyaf
but i will prefer to learn it from God directly and not through a book written thousands of years ago filled with human errors of translation and interpreted by people as it favours them.

I would also luv to take a shit on the moon . . . havent got to do that yet

MyJoe:

There are many strange religious beliefs and doctrines in the world - from men reincarnating as rats to wine turning into blood. But one must say that the Hellfire teaching, the idea that God has made a fire to burn people for eternity takes the cup. That a man who lived a life of "sin" for, say, 80 years can be sentenced to an eternity in a hot house is just. . .

Bobbyaf:

@ chinedumo

God doesn't have to eternally punish evildoers to prove justice. That thought is diabolic by nature. Satan is at the heart of such a thought, and not the bible. The problem with some Christians is their gross ignorance of biblical themes. They run away with a verse or two, and make a religion on such.

The absolute reality is that Jesus didn't die on Calvary to punish sinners eternally. He died to save sinners from sin. That was not a threat. To argue that Jesus' death if refused by evildoers will land them in a place to be punished eternally, makes God out to be threat. Evil doers will be punished alright, but not eternally.

Besides, if we are expected to live on the earth when it has been made new, then where will this place of eternal punishment be? Secondly such an argument brings into question whether or not really dealt with the sin problem after all. As long as evil doers are being punished sin will be present, and it also means that Satan will be present. As long as these beings remain alive, then they would have been given eternal life.

John 3:16 made it abundantly clear that only those who believe on Christ will have eternal life. As long as evil doers are being punished, it means they would still be alive, and if they are alive for eternity, it means they have eternal life.

You can't have the redeemed enjoying the new earth, and its glory, and the evildoers somewhere else being punished eternally in the same new earth. Not only is it a silly thought, but ridiculous if you ask me.

The weight of biblical evidence is against such false teachings.

Someone who spent 80 yrs of his life in sin is a sinner by nature. He is a slave to sin. Sin is his master.16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?Rom6:16 Mercy and patience has been shown to him here on earth. he has been given a long rope. the sufferings of this present life is nothing to be compared with eternal damnation. the suffering help u to appreciate eternal suffering. someone who spent a life time frustrating the grace of God while on earth cannot possibly be saved/repent by any other means. God is spending his time, resources, energy and wisdom for the salvation of souls. If he fail to win over a particular soul cos that soul has chosen evil there is no other possible way again. If that soul spends eternity here one earth, he will spend it in sin. The christian book teaches that love is the greatest of all. therefore if the love of God, in its finest form under the name Jesus and also that of his servants, the prophets, is unable to win a particular soul, then that soul is just like his master the devil. Who despite his wisdom and knowledge of Christ as Lord (YAHWEH) still hardens his heart in iniquity. Even if he spends 80yrs in fire and is released, he will still go back to sin. Take this example from his master the devil as prophesied by the prophets of the Christian God in Rev 20:1-10 so they are of no other use than to be left for destruction eternally. Jesus came to save sinners. Man was already doomed to destruction before Christ came. But God in his mercy made on escape route for man's salvation. By writing off the debt that man owed God as a demonstration of his love. this extra act of mercy in the spirit of equity must also attract higher standards and expectation and therefore more dire consequences. Some other have been judged before Christ's coming and that will make God unjust if he still maintains the same consequences and standards. and therefore it is better that one did not meet the LORD than that one met him and still maintained status quo. 28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Heb10:28,29
Evil doer is one who has rejected and disbelieved Jesus(Jn17:3) so he is not entitled to eternal life but eternal death Dan12:2-2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. The new heaven and new earth is after Christ's millennial(1000) reign on earth Rev chapter 20 and 21. the lake of fire is not on earth unlike what the KJV calls "hell" Rev 20:14 Hell and the lake of fire are different so the lake of fire is unaffected by the new earth Revelation 14:10,11 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

@bobbya
f

of course i seriously agree with you. i really have a lot to learn.

but i will prefer to learn it from God directly and not through a book written thousands of years ago filled with human errors of translation and interpreted by people as it favours them.

I had no clue you were a comedian, lol. Grin Wish you all the luck,

your reply to my last post really makes me laugh.

why is it so difficult for people to believe that they too like the old prophets in the bible can have a one on one relationship with God and learn directly from God without just relying on what was written in a book about other people's experiences with God

God is not a stranger to us. it is only us who do not know our relationship with God. God is our father and It loves us with a love that has no comparison.

God is always waiting for the soul who is bold and courageous enough to leave the human consciousness and enter the temple within to learn about Its will for us.

and about God not being a killer i am talking about the god depicted in the old testament who sends the Israelites to wipe out their neighbours.

i said that the god of the Israelite is not the supreme God. the supreme God loves all souls equally and does not give a damn about your religion or tribe or colour. the supreme God can never send a nation to wipe out another nation because It is the father of all nations.