royalamour:
So sometimes I see animals give birth and they moan and groan as a result of the pains they feel.

And I start to wonder if they ate the forbidden fruit and was cursed too.

So why do they feel pains like children of Eve?

JudgementHammer:

Since you can think, you should have also thought of why you have to wear clothes to cover ur nakkeedness unlike animals, why u have d highest developed brain among animals and why you can't pick foods from the floor or have sex on the streets without being shy. The same proof that equates you with animals as long as labour pain is concerned, should competently equate you with them in those areas too. Your thinking is half-done just like an animal's thinking shd be.

Do you know that animals struggles to get food existed with them before God created man on d 6th day. When God created Lions and other animals in d world, they immediately begin their struggle to fight for prey and the preys with immediate sense to elude their predators. They were also created with their physiological responses to childbirth.

Man alone was d one created out of special consideration..God said now let's create man In our image and likeness, why were animals not so lucky? After creating them in his likeness, be also put them in a special garden called eden guarded by angels. They were so special, they were d only one that could talk and with the highest developed brain. In the same special way, he made them without labour pain until they brought themselves under the curse by eating the forbidden fruit as recorded in the bible and also had to be clothed unlike animals.

Exciton:


Going through with this line of reasoning, one has to wonder why pain (no matter how small) existed BEFORE the original sin as everything was perfect and Adam+Eve were created in his image. Wouldn't make sense for pain to exist before the curse.

But like NPComplete said, these arguments are only for educational purposes. [b]They're trivial compared to other logical inconsistencies in the Bib[/b]le.

Mhyketh:

bro you are meant to not understand everything, even if you get an answer to this you'll still come up with more questions. But know one thing our God is not mocked.

butterflyl1on:


If you would speak this way devoid of your usual vitriol then I would have this conversation with you.

Let me post the King James version as you said



It says I WILL MULTIPLY THY SORROW.

What is meant to be multiplied in that passage? THY SORROW!

This means that there was sorrow already there in small measure but you and I know that there is no sorrow during labour so sorrow there means the PAIN during childbirth.

Going further to say IN SORROW SHALL THOU BRING FORTH CHILDREN was said after the multiplication of an already existing sorrow/pain

That scripture was not refering to lenght of time alone but also at intensity. The longer the labour, the longer the pain/sorrow.

So even what you thought was wrong is actually right.

Lenght of duration of labour is right
Length and intensity of pain is right.

What we know is that there is pain so be it a lengthy labour or a short one, an already existing pain/ sorrow has been multiplied.

Eve did not have to give birth before to know there would be pain. The one who made her (God) just let her in on something she shouldn't have known at that time. He created her and designed her for fruitfulness and multiplication (conception and delivery) so he also knew pain in some degree would be involved.

NPComplete:


Who says the sorrow has anything to do with labour or childbirth. It just says sorrow it is u that is tying that sorrow to childbirth. It means general sorrow.
Then it went on to specifically mention something about lengthening the conception. And then it also talked about making the birth after the conception painful. It is u that is trying to shoehorn everything into the word "sorrow".

butterflyl1on:


It does not mean GENERAL SORROW. read again below.



Genesis 3:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

It first started by saying the womans sorrow/ pain would be greatly multiplied (increased be it in duration or intensity) and in the same breathe a little further it now SPECIFIED the area the sorrow/pain would be focussed on. That area is in bringing forth children.

How you are seeing "general sorrow" is simply fascinating.

JudgementHammer:

You simply are confused

NPComplete:


Nope. Guy this thing na English na. I will greatly multiply thy sorrow AND thy conception. Sorrow is general sorrow. Conception is specific about the length of time of carrying the baby in the womb.

Then it goes on with the curse: In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children. This one says nothing about increasing anything. But the beginning of it. And thy desires shall be to thy husband, meaning up until that moment her desires would have been to herself.

She had other sorrows before. And those sorrows couldnt have been labour because she hadnt given birth before then. By adding these new curses thus has her sorrow been increased.

I know u get what I am saying but your need to defend your religion will make u seek other ways to interpret this.

NPComplete:


Nope. Guy this thing na English na. I will greatly multiply thy sorrow AND thy conception. Sorrow is general sorrow. Conception is specific about the length of time of carrying the baby in the womb.

Then it goes on with the curse: In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children. This one says nothing about increasing anything. But the beginning of it. If not it should have said "in more sorrow". And thy desires shall be to thy husband, meaning up until that moment her desires would have been to herself. If not it would have said "thy desires shall be MORE to thy husband".

She had other sorrows before. And those sorrows couldnt have been labour because she hadnt given birth before then. By adding these new curses thus has her sorrow been increased.

I know u get what I am saying but your need to defend your religion will make u seek other ways to interpret this.

Exciton:


Going through with this line of reasoning, one has to wonder why pain (no matter how small) existed BEFORE the original sin as everything was perfect and Adam+Eve were created in his image. Wouldn't make sense for pain to exist before the curse.

But like NPComplete said, these arguments are only for educational purposes. They're trivial compared to other logical inconsistencies in the Bible.

JudgementHammer:

Since you can think, you should have also thought of why you have to wear clothes to cover ur nakkeedness unlike animals, why u have d highest developed brain among animals and why you can't pick foods from the floor or have sex on the streets without being shy. The same proof that equates you with animals as long as labour pain is concerned, should competently equate you with them in those areas too. Your thinking is half-done just like an animal's thinking shd be.

Do you know that animals desires to get food existed with them before God created man on d 6th day. When God created Lions and other animals in d world, they immediately began their struggle to fight for prey and the preys with immediate sense to elude their predators. They were also created with their physiological responses to childbirth.

Man alone was d one created out of special consideration..God said now let's create man In our image and likeness, why were animals not so lucky? After creating them in his likeness, he also put them in a special garden called eden guarded by angels. They were so special, they were d only one that could talk and with the highest developed brain. In the same special way, he made them without labour pain until they brought themselves under the curse by eating the forbidden fruit as recorded in the bible and also had to be clothed unlike animals.

darkchild64:
I don't want to be much involved in this argument but it seems I have to be,now to all you Christians claiming that the curse was to INCREASE the pain of childbearing now the question becomes

WHY WAS SUCH PAIN NECESSARY AT THE FIRST PLACE CONSIDERING THAT THEY HAD NOT EATEN THE APPLE

JudgementHammer:

Lol so to you culture superceedes creation. Who made culture? Now who created those who made culture?

Picking food on d floor is inspired by poverty and not a physiological response.

You don't have point bro. Your argument is still half-baked.

butterflyl1on:


Were nerves or physical sensory perception / feelings created later or at creation? Will you say that man at creation lacked the sensation of touch, taste, could not feel the heat of fire, the sun, etc?

gmoney12:
fill ur self with d holy spirit and answer the question

NPComplete:


Nonsense. Please stop fouling this thread with such unintelligent responses. I am weary of responding to such folly.

Nope actually it is modern hygiene and health is what has stopped people from picking food from the streets. Even in the middle ages, rich people were not having their baths and if their food falls on the ground they ate it.

Do u know that if u train a dog to eat from a bowl and in the house it will become very choosy about what and where it eats? The only reason u can boast about not eating from the street is abundance and training. If there were to be a famine now, u won't be any different from those feral animals u disdain. When push comes to shove, u will lose all this human exclusivity in which u are so conceited.

The only reason I am replying is because of other people that will come and read this thread. Not because I think u are smart enough to understand sound arguments. Cheers

JudgementHammer:

Lol you're just one embittered ignoramus. I should be d one getting irritated with ur folly. You post to please people.

Wish to see you on your sick bed after accident has claimed ur mobility then will wonder who you will call upon.

darkchild64:


are u trying to go for a logical explanation,well I expect u first tell me why a snake could even converse with a human at the first place and why the lions would be running errands for adam

JudgementHammer:

Lol you're just one embittered ignoramus. I should be d one getting irritated with ur folly. You post to please people.

Wish to see you on your sick bed after accident has claimed ur mobility then will wonder who you will call upon.

Odessey:
you deserve to be honour. you are the best. d best educated and mature ever. God bles u