Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? - Religion (3) - Nairaland
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| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by bindex(m): 1:41pm On May 31, 2010 |
Mad_Max: I dey bam bam as our people will love to say. Nice to know you are doing great. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by mazaje(m): 6:49pm On May 31, 2010 |
Romeo4real: Like bindex said define fundamentalism and we can begin from there. . . . . I don't know what you mean by "basis", but please show me a war, any war, where religion was the cause. I have shown you places in the bible were the bibleGod commanded people to fight for the case of religion, by killing unbelievers and taking their possessions. . . The crusade ,French wars of religion and the Hindu-Muslim conflicts are an example to wars caused by religion. . . . . You have said it all. The parts you allude to are stories. Historical recollections and subsequent transcriptions of real events. They are not teachings, preachings, commandments, philosophies or precepts. Can you understand that? Most of the teachings of the bible are in form of stories, no?They are teachings and commandments from the mouth of Yahweh himself. . . . . So because God instructed some people to fight back for the land which he had given them then means that all wars are cause by religion? Are you lying through your teeth? Where in the bible does it say that people were told to fight back for the land that was promised them by Yahweh? The story says they were commanded to fight for the land that was allegedly given to them by their all powerful God who ironically could not create a land of milk and honey for them but commanded them to go steal or take over the lands of others that was flowing with milk and honey. . . . |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by MadMax1(f): 8:11pm On Jun 01, 2010 |
Not to belabour the point, but you don't know that 'Yahweh' told the Jews to go a-killing. They merely said he did. You can still see the Jews at it: Modern Israel taking Palestinian lands. If this were Old Testament times they'd wipe out the Palestinians and say God told them to do it. There'll be tribal war heroes and poetic verses about when God spoke privately to the Israeli Prime Minister, promising them victory as long as they murder every Palestinian soul to the last child. Oh. They may spare the virgins. The Jews can't do that anymore. Instead you have a posturing bully of a state, drunk on military might, having milked the Holocaust for all it was worth. If Jews want to claim Palestinian lands based on the OT, prior ownership belong to the Canaanites and Midianites and all the other 'ites' occupying the place before they came along and wiped them out. There really isn't anywhere else for the Jews to go. The Middle East is their home. But they could've done this far more peacefully decades ago. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by MyJoe: 10:31am On Jun 02, 2010 |
^^^ Well put. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by Romeo4real(m): 12:56pm On Jun 02, 2010 |
@Mazaje - Like bindex said define fundamentalism and we can begin from there. . . . .Why should i define it? Don't you have a dictionary at hand? Lets us use YOUR definition, and i will still prove your assertion wrong. I have shown you places in the bible were the bible God commanded people to fight for the case of religion, by killing unbelievers and taking their possessions. . .Are you using the Bible to justify your argument? A book you claim to be nothing but a fraudulent fantasy? How can you use something you claim to be false, to justify something you claim to be true? This has always been the fatal flaw in most of your arguments. Please explain this conundrum. Remember, the Bible is either true, fabricated, or both. Please choose one and let us know. Remember, my original assertion was - "Contrary to popular thinking, most wars are not caused by religion", to which you replied - "This again is false, because there are many wars that were and still being fought purely on the basis of religion". You are yet to prove your assertion above (Remember, it undermines your whole premise as an Atheist, should you choose to use the Bible to validate your argument), and i have already disproved one of your arguments. The crusade ,French wars of religion and the Hindu-Muslim conflicts are an example to wars caused by religion. . . . .Em, the origin of the crusades was not in religion, but in a war for territory. The then Byzantine Emperor Alexius I, after suffering a defeat at the hands of the Turks at Manzikert in 1071 made an appeal to Pope Urban II for help. This is exacerbated when the Turks started to occupy western Constantinople - a traditional Christian pilgrims route. Also, Papal Rome had been looking for a way to bring the secular rulers of the time (in Normandy, Sicily and the British Isles) under ecclesiastical authority - so involving them in a war for Christianity, under papal control, seems to be the best solution. Pope Urban II then sells it as a Christian war to his council of Bishops in Piacenza who are mightily impressed, so begins the 1st Crusade. Most of the teachings of the bible are in form of stories, no?They are teachings and commandments from the mouth of Yahweh himself,A teaching is different from a historical recollection and transcription. The Bible makes that clear. The Commandments were not in the form of stories. When a story, or indeed parable was used to illustrate a teaching - as Jesus often did, the Bible makes it clear. You are putting forward unnecessary easily refutable arguments. Surely you are better than this. Are you lying through your teeth? Where in the bible does it say that people were told to fight back for the land that was promised them by Yahweh?OK, we are splitting hairs here. "fight back" or "fight for", the point is they were fighting based on Gods word. Remember, it was given to Abraham and his "descendants", well before the descendants were born. I could easily argue they were fighting back for it. Anyway, how does this prove your/bindex's overarching assertion that "religion is the cause of war"? Some history below for you - God shows Abraham the promised land - Genesis 15:18-21: On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, "To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates - the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites." God tells Joshua he will redeem the promise made to Abraham - Jos 3:10-11: This is how you will know the living God is among you and that he will truly drive out before you the Canaanites, Hittites, Hivites, Perizzites, Girgashites, Amorites, and Jebusites. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by MadMax1(f): 7:02pm On Jun 02, 2010 |
My last post was to you, Rome honey. The Jews are a group like any other group. Christ came through David's lineage because God apparently promised that to him. Not because of Jewish cultural and religious history, or anything the Jews ever did. So what if Christ came as a Jew? He had to come as something: Negro, Arab, Caucasian, Asian or Palestinian Jew, it's all the same. It doesn't mean my allegiance automatically lies with any race he chose to come as. My allegiance lies only with him. God promised Abraham other people's land. So they SAY. Where's the proof? Writing wasn't invented for thousands of years after Abraham lived, if he actually existed, so where did the writer of Genesis get all the details he put in about Abraham? The Chinese invented ink and paper only in the 2nd-4th century. Cruder forms of writing were available a few hundred years before that. So where did all the nifty details of this covenant come from? There may be a covenant where God promised the Jews other people's land and labour, but where's the proof? They conquered in war but they too were conquered, same odds as any other army. They claim God dealt exclusively with them, but other tribes and people claim exactly the same thing in their holy books. But the Jews let a few things slip: 2 Chronicles 35:20-22 records something interesting. After all this, when Josiah had prepared the temple, Necho king of Egypt came up to fight against Charchemish by Euphrates: and Josiah went out against him. But he sent ambassadors to him, saying, What have I to do with thee, thou king of Judah? I come not against thee this day, but against the house wherewith I have war: for God commanded me to make haste: forbear thee from meddling with God, who is with me, that he destroy thee not. Nevertheless Josiah would not turn his face from him, but disguised himself, that he might fight with him, and hearkened not unto the words of Necho from the mouth of God, and came to fight in the valley of Megiddo. See that? The Jews acknowledged their own God was with the Egyptians. Listen to Isaiah preaching to the Jews: Isaiah 29:13 The Lord says: These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men. Isaiah 30:1: "Woe to the obstinate children," declares the LORD, "to those who carry out plans that are not mine, forming an alliance, but not by my Spirit, heaping sin upon sin." |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by MadMax1(f): 8:20pm On Jun 02, 2010 |
Honestly Rome, there are Jews today who'd laugh at you if you tell them their ancestors had a right to kill other people and take their lands because 'God' promised them those lands through Abraham. I mean, listen to that proposition! The same 'God' who created mythical Adam and Eve in such detail, with forbidden fruit and a snake villain? Who said women gave birth in pain because she fed the first man the fruit? It may have basis as allegory, but it's prime after-the-fact myth-making and storytelling. Adam and Eve never existed. We evolved as a biological species. What's the evidence any God ever promised any Abraham a dang thing? Where's the proof? The Jews probably made up this story, much like the Adam/Eve story was made up, to justify their conquests and recruit 'holy warriors' to fight for 'the lands God promised'. Pascal said Men never do evil so completely and so cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. He's absolutely right. There are Jews who don't accept that 'Abraham covenant ' justification for mass murder and ethnic cleansing, who don't even believe there's a God, much less any kind of Messiah, be he to deliver Jews from their conquerors and oppressors, to become their king, or to save the world. Don't feel obligated to defend everything the Jews wrote in the Old testament. They don't even know who wrote much of the OT. They merely assign it to Moses because it's convenient to do so. They label the author, 'Moses, according to tradition'. They haven't a clue. Some of these OT books were written only a couple of hundred years before Christ was born! Events that ostensibly took place countless thousands of years ago being written about in 150 BC! That's the bible for you. And you'll see some impossibly daft dolts tallying up all the begats from the OT in Matthew and declaring the earth is 6000 years old, as if the bible is a scientific document. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by Nobody: 9:06pm On Jun 02, 2010 |
Mad_Max: |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by Dereformer(m): 10:12am On Jun 03, 2010 |
I have taken time to read some of the posts on this topic and I will respond as follows: (1) Sincerely speaking TRUE CHRISTIANS are better off than UNBELIEVERS. If your definition of 'better-off' is in terms of wealth acquisition then you miss the point. What a genuine child of God thinks about and wishes Is completely different from what an unbeliever thinks about and wishes. The emphasis on wealth and financial prosperity as preached by some churches today has blindfolded so many 'Christians' and has indeed taken so many away from the faith. Believe it or not excess wealth has the tendency of taking a child of God away from God. Jesus was very emphatic when He said "it is easy for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man entering into the kingdom of God. God will not allow His child to go hungry but will not give enough to push him out of faith. (2) one of the situations when u see that a true born-again christian is better than an unbeliever is on death bed. A true Christian dies happily knowing were he/she is going. Most wealthy and evil men during death regrets the life they lived and all the atrocities they committed. they have always wished they lived for God. (3) For those who do not believe in the existence of God, I have this question to ask: Let us assume that we gave our life to Christ and lived a holy life on earth, passed through persecution and finally we all died and discovered that all these talk about church and Christ were falsehood.What have we lost? I have one truth as self evident "GOD EXISTS AND HIS WAYS ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE WAYS OF MEN". Naturally one believes in the existence of God except where ones mind has been conditioned, by what one reads, sees, hears etc, to believe otherwise. If u believe that evil exists, then it is proof that the opposite also exists and that is GOOD(which is GOD) Comments are welcome for more explanations |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by Nobody: 10:48am On Jun 03, 2010 |
Dereformer: True talk |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by mazaje(m): 10:50am On Jun 03, 2010 |
Dereformer: Why are you talking only about wealth?. . .I listed quite a lot of stuffs like good health, better protection form disasters or harm, long life, feeling of happiness etc and all you can dwell on is wealth?. . . . . God will not allow His child to go hungry but will not give enough to push him out of faith. On what basis did you come to this conclusion?. . . . . (2) one of the situations when u see that a true born-again christian is better than an unbeliever is on death bed. A true Christian dies happily knowing were he/she is going. Most wealthy and evil men during death regrets the life they lived and all the atrocities they committed. they have always wished they lived for God. This is false because christians do not want to die, I have been around christians during times of danger and they were all praying to their God to protect them and preserve their lives. . . .True Muslims also die happily knowing where they are going to also. . . . .Who is the rich person that told you that he has always wished to have lived for God on his death bed? What study did you conduct that made you come to this conclusion? (3) For those who do not believe in the existence of God, I have this question to ask: Let us assume that we gave our life to Christ and lived a holy life on earth, passed through persecution and finally we all died and discovered that all these talk about church and Christ were falsehood.What have we lost? You do not need to be religious to be a good person, you don't need to believe in God to be a good person. By the way what is all these imaginary persecution complex you guys love talking about? I have one truth as self evident "GOD EXISTS AND HIS WAYS ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE WAYS OF MEN". Naturally one believes in the existence of God except where ones mind has been conditioned, by what one reads, sees, hears etc, to believe otherwise. False. . . .I have seen children here whose parents did not introduce the hypothesis or belief in God into their lives and they grew up not even understanding what it means. Come over to finland I will show you 15-17 years old teenagers who do not even fully understand what the God hypothesis means. No child has ever come out of his mothers womb talking about God, people ONLY get to know about the verious versions of Gods that exist through indoctrination, and up bringing. . .NO child knows anything about any God on its own. . . .He must have to be indoctrinated and taught about the version of God his parents believe in or accept. . . If u believe that evil exists, then it is proof that the opposite also exists and that is GOOD(which is GOD) Where in the bible does it say that the God of the bible is the opposite of evil? The bible talks about Yahweh being the cause of evil. . . . Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? Amos 3:6 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7 |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by Romeo4real(m): 2:47pm On Jun 03, 2010 |
@Madmax - Honestly Rome, there are Jews today who'd laugh at you if you tell them their ancestors had a right to kill other people and take their lands because 'God' promised them those lands through Abraham.Well, I never said this. I was simply repeating what the Bibe said on the issue - since we were arguing over what the Bible explicitly said, rather than the veracity of the statement. It certainly cannot be used to defend the atrocities perpetrated by a racist, murderous, apartheid, Zionist regime, who see everybody else as "Untermenschen". - And i, certainly cannot be accused of doing this. Just read this quote from Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech he gave to the Knesset in 1982 - "Our race is the Master Race. We Jews are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." There may be a covenant where God promised the Jews other people's land and labour, but where's the proof?Proof of no covenant is not proof of a lack of covenant. Surely you know that. It does not mean it exists, it does not mean it doesn't exist. I have always argued objectively regarding these kind of things in the Bible. After all this, when Josiah had prepared the temple, Necho king of Egypt came up to fight against Charchemish by Euphrates: and Josiah went out against him. But he sent ambassadors to him, saying, What have I to do with thee, thou king of Judah? I come not against thee this day, but against the house wherewith I have war: for God commanded me to make haste: forbear thee from meddling with God, who is with me, that he destroy thee not. Nevertheless Josiah would not turn his face from him, but disguised himself, that he might fight with him, and hearkened not unto the words of Necho from the mouth of God, and came to fight in the valley of Megiddo.- Mad Max, you are falling into the same trap that most people do - christian/non christian alike. You just asserted there was no proof that God promised Abraham anything, You said the "Jews made up the story". Well, the "story" above, which you just used to illustrate a point, could also have been made up, as there is no proof the incident ever happened. It undermines your overall argument by using it. You cannot choose at a whim which stories you choose to believe, and those you choose to cast aside. And you can see the fall out from Josiah's actions. He engaged in a war that was, according to the Bible, not sanctioned by God. The result was that he lost his life, despite being the most Godly King Israel had for a long time. Subsequently, Israel fell into the servitude of Egypt, taxed heavily and controlled to such an extent that Egypt now decided and installed the subsequent Kings, and even changed their Jewish names. Josiah's actions ushered in a reign of ungodliness, abominations, transgressions, evil and defilement in Israel - by people and priest alike. Let me make my position clear - i believe all these stories are recollections of actual events. Has their integrity been compromised due to time, biased authors, personal interest, errors, historical inaccuracies? Absolutely. This however does not change the premise of the Bible nor what is contains. This has always been my position. The Jews have a long history of subverting God's word for to their own reasons. They have an even longer history of moving away from Gods word and doing abominable and ungodly things. No doubt, at this time, they may have attempted to justify their actions using the Bible. The problem is not the Bible, its the Jews. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by cadanre(m): 3:50pm On Jun 03, 2010 |
@ mazaje Meaningful post and good response to comments. Keep it up. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by MadMax1(f): 7:02pm On Jun 03, 2010 |
Lol, hon. I wasn't using the verse to buttress a point. I said the Jews claimed they were God's own people whom he'd chosen. Other people believe that too. The Japanese believed they were descended from the gods and were afforded divine protection. They complacently went off to throw bombs on the Americans at Pearl harbour.That verse was to highlight the same Jews who claimed God exclusively as their own saying God was with an Egyptian king. Not an Egyptian false god or idol, but 'God'. Absence of proof isn't evidence of its non-existence. Perhaps. But where a people claim the covenant as basis for ethnic cleansing, I think it's fairly obvious proof is required, since it's spilled over from the group and the so-called covenant is now causing the deaths of other groups. I don't think one is called to approve mass murder on the basis that absence of proof isn't evidence of its non-existence. Absence of proof isn't evidence of its existence either. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by Romeo4real(m): 8:13pm On Jun 03, 2010 |
They complacently went off to throw bombs on the Americans at Pearl harbour Hmmmnn, Mad Max, I believe we are generally singing from the same hymn sheet, and i don't disagree with anything you have said, except maybe for the quote above. You know, it really wasn't as simple as that. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by MadMax1(f): 8:47pm On Jun 03, 2010 |
I thought a country sent an armada to Japan twice, and twice there was a thypoon that wiped out the enemy's fleet. The Japanese took that as confirmation of their race's divine origins and protection. They'd whipped themselves into a frenzy and believed their gods was with them when they joined WW2, initiating their sole surprise attack at Pearl harbour. The Americans soon decoded their war codes and knew evertyhing the Japanese military were going to do in advance. Four years later, the Japanese virtually defeated and in the process of face-saving surrender, America threw atomic bombs on two Japanese cities. Why? Because they'd spent a billion dollars inventing the thing, it was now ready and here was their only chance to see its real-life effect. But war deadens normal human sensibilities and compassionate reasoning. WW2 claimed 35 million souls, military and civilian. America was the only country in the war with zero civilian casualties. Now Japan spends almost nothing on its national defence, investing in science and technology instead. America spends gazillions annually, stockpiling nuclear weapons. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by Nobody: 4:47pm On Jun 06, 2010 |
Romeo4real: OMG! why do you have to remind me of this sad speech. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by MadMax1(f): 7:25pm On Jun 06, 2010 |
No-oooooo! Did someone actually say that?!  Good God. I wish there was a link to the complete thing. See psychosis! He and Hitler are practically ideological brothers. Those poor Palestinians. Guilty guilty guilty of being Muslim and on land Jews wanted. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by jookco(m): 4:52am On Jun 07, 2010 |
Now listing all you whose heart has not yet been sanctified. Church is like a football stadium, there are many onlookers while there are few players, but you don't win untill you play or you don't expect to win any battle until your fight, victory always come after fighting nothing good is for free but the Gospel made it easy to fight on your kneel, and Paul the apostle tagged it SIMPLICITY OF THE GOSPEL . the bible is very clear that those who are canal minded and double minded shall not receive any thing from the Lord, the man who love Jesus is not the man who pays his tight it's the man who do his will and continue in it James 1:25 and that is the man that will prosper and you cant compare his good life with that of um-believers unless Satan blinds your mind not to see the light which another factor that am considering when I see your comments here for we know that the minds of people are blinded not to see that real believers are far better than unbelievers 2 Cor 10:3-4 , but to many it's not just easy for them to live a Godly live so the remain onlookers and branded themselves believers , lots of Christians today have not refrain from the word system of doing things syndrome so they still uses the earthly wisdom, the three categories of Wisdom is in James 3:14-17 , while the verses 17 talk about Gods kind of Wisdom , many believers still talk like carnal men not knowing that their tongue rubs them of their many victories, long ago I found this marvelous verse of the bible in Isaiah 3:8 (King James Version) For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen: because their tongue and their doings are against the LORD, to provoke the eyes of his glory. James 1:26 (New International Version) If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. So their sayings are their major problem, meanwhile only few believers are strong, the bible talk about weak and strong faith, Finally my brethren by strong in the Lord Eph 6:10, you need spiritual strength to fight the good fight of faith for they that wait upon the lord shall renew their strength with the word of God Isaiah 40:31 Moreover only few Christians know that the battle ground is in their mind, because Christian this days fear more than unbelievers, when you don't believer stuff in your mind or you always see failure that means you know God but don't trust him, maybe you don't read your bible or you don't trust your bible because if you do then you must have read Jeremiah 32:27 where it says I'm the Lord the God of all flesh is there any thing too difficult for me to do?, or you may not also have read where Jesus raised Lazarus a man who was dead and stinking in the grave for four days, battle and defeat are in the mind, that why its said in proverbs 4:23 Guide your mind carefully monitor it 24 hrs make sure you thinking something that is in line with the Word, the just shall live by faith that means you need to see victory in every area of your life, even while driving in a tragic jam you still see the possibility that something will happen that you will make it in time to your destination that's just one example of living in faith , listing i"m a 28 years old man and I have seen a lot and have been in places, done good and bad I can tell you that Jesus works, but if you can't be strong in the Lord then it does not worth it to waste your time , because you can't succeed unless you are a word addict , Joshua 1:8 1 Timothy 4:15 Remain bless Y'all |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by mqf: 9:03pm On Jun 19, 2010 |
Religion is man made as God knows no religion. He only knows that we are to have a relationship with Jesus Christ and with Him. Why do we think that we are any better than Jesus? He came down to earth as man and conquered sin. He had to deal with the same things that we're dealing with today and WORSE; however, He conquered. That's why He came to earth to show us that we too can conquer sin. He gives us a choice and doesn't push Himself on us. As He's a gentleman. He gives us our own free wills. God sent Him here for one reason ONLY and that was to save us from our sins. Look at what He went through. It was a terrible thing and He didn't defend Himself because He knew what His purpose was. He shows all of us our purpose, but we have to take heed. Our rewards are not hear on earth (worldly, man made), but our rewards will be in Heaven. The scripture says that He went to provide a place for us and each of us will have a mansion. We have to go through things to prove to God that we will trust Him totally and not man. There are, without a doubt, battles and negative circumstances which God’s people must face, even as the unjust do. But they do not come from God. God gives only good gifts (James 1:17). So when He sends the sun, it is to bless, even the unjust. When He sends the rain, it is to do good, even to the unjust. We were all born into iniquity because of Adam and Eve. Sin is why we go through things, not God. God doesn't know sin. Study your bible, dissect it and you'll find your answers there. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by MadMax1(f): 9:53am On Jun 20, 2010 |
I've studied it. It raises more questions than it answers. It answers a few, but so do other holy books. I've learned as much from the Buddisht holy writing as from Christian writing. Interesting how many intersections there are between both, and with other religions too. But it's all just people writing what they think. Even the much-fiddled-with NT of my faith I've issues with. I find the virgin birth implausible. It's so pointless and adds nothing to who He is as a spirit being. Holy books are valuable because one can sometimes relate as a fellow human being and profit by others's insight and wisdom, not because they're divine in any way and all life's answers are there. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by alaper: 10:22pm On Jun 21, 2010 |
[b]Deuteronomy 13:6-16 (New International Version - UK)[/b]6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no-one among you will do such an evil thing again. 12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, Let us go and worship other gods (gods you have not known), 14 then you must enquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. 16 Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin for ever, never to be rebuilt. There endeth the lesson! |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by ifele(m): 12:17am On Jun 22, 2010 |
Christianity is the hypocritical shit that comes out of the butt of the Pope in Rome. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by MadMax1(f): 2:11pm On Jun 24, 2010 |
ifele:Not quite. You'll have to take that up with the Jews, alaper. No one here wrote Deuteronomy, or anything in the bible for that matter. Between scuttling to the US for money and weapons and harrassing Palestinians, I'm sure they'll make the time for questions on what their ancestors wrote. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by mantraa: 2:47pm On Jun 24, 2010 |
Christians are exactly the same as non-christians. There is no evidence to show that they live longer, avoid natural disasters, are more wealthy, healthy, or in any way better off than muslims, hindus, buddhists, atheists, or any other non-christians. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by alaper: 11:54am On Jun 28, 2010 |
mantraa wrote: Not quite. You'll have to take that up with the Jews, alaper. No one here wrote Deuteronomy, or anything in the bible for that matter. Between scuttling to the US for money and weapons and harrassing Palestinians, I'm sure they'll make the time for questions on what their ancestors wrote. But this is suppossed to be the word of God!!!  Unless we now say the 'good' parts of the bible are the word of God, and the 'bad' or embarrasing parts are not. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by MadMax1(f): 8:59am On Jul 05, 2010 |
Christianity is based on the NT, not the OT. The OT is the foundation of Judaism, the Jewish religion based on Mosaic laws, entirely different from Christianity. I'll let the NT answer that endlessly recycled and rather funny remark of yours, why not? JOHN 8, and JOHN 11: And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. ** I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. ** Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him. But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done. Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation. ** Question answered? Doesn't mean the Jews are 'bad', merely human. Christ did not create a religion, that's for men to do. He merely functioned within the one He'd chosen to be born in. And since He didn't create a religion, the Jews continue to function in the Mosaic traditions they have, expecting the political ruler apparently prophesied in Micah, who is yet to come. Micah's comtemporary, Isaiah, prophesied someone else entirely, who seemed to be Christ. Is it the same man, to come at different times in Israel's history? Are they two different men? Don't know, But there is a reason Christ was at loggerheads with the religious authorities, flouted Mosaic law, constantly disregarded their 'sacred' Sabbath and when the appointed time came, was put to death by those same infallible religious authorities whose religious ancestors had written the infallible Mosaic OT Jewish Laws. The laws you assume Christians are obligated to 'accept', because a few guys got together and decided which books to put in a bible to form 'the word of God' and which not. The books they didn't include, weren't they 'the word of God'? Was God stuttering in those discarded books, didn't speak up, didn't speak loudly enough? Endlessly recycled questions. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by Mckybarf(m): 8:43am On Oct 24, 2012 |
It is all so sad that christians, ourselves, seldom understand the values and concepts of our religion. We try to associate christianity with wealth, social status and stuff like that but that isnt God's purpose for us at all. One thing to note is that human beings are great pretender- thex will go any mile to get a comfortable life and to satisfy their egos. Imagine that christians were better off the rest, what do you suppose might happen? The church would be filled with so many people whose only aim will be to get a better life, like it happen witg papal rome when church and government fused. It gave rise to an influx of so many people whose aim were less than godly, thronging into it cos association with the church came with so much personal benefits like recognition, social respect and acceptance etc etc. God's purpose is to be a unique and distinguished people whether poor or rich, sick or healthy , free or in bonds, united by the Spirit irrespective of denomination, trusting and believing in his willingness and power to sustain us no matter the circumstance and faithful to him until the end. 1Peter 2:9. Christianity is a battlefied and a soldier on a battlefied thinks less of comfort, it is a cross to bear. 1Peter 2, hebrews chapters 11 and 12. You are supposed to go through these whether rich or poor until we all sanctified then after will we be glorified, 1Peter 1:9. No good christian has and will ever have it easy, unless he is an imposter. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by Nobody: 9:00am On Oct 24, 2012 |
Reading this old thread made me lol! The summary is that there is nothing that a christian can do that a non believer cant. Christians have the highest divorce rates in USA Less religious countries are more peaceful etc. God loves atheists. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by Mckybarf(m): 9:11am On Oct 24, 2012 |
But christians are better off than the rest because we have one thing that none else has. We have CHRIST JESUS, who died and rose again and upon ascension gave us his HOLY SPIRIT. One of my aunties died early january this year, and a woman of faith like her my eye has never beheld. Though a sickle-cell patient and suseptible to a myraid of illnesses never for once doubted the love of God or wavered in her faith concerning his power to save, purpose and will for her life. Despite her many years or sickness, pains, sufferings, hospital bills, she remained steadfast and till her death remained a pillar of hope for many. She died at 52 of TB, a rare age for sicklers. She never quit praying for healing but when she knew it was time for her departure changed her prayer and began praising and worshipping God on here death bed at the hospital, to the amazement of all that were around. If this isnt a better-off-life, then what is. |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by Nobody: 9:22am On Oct 24, 2012 |
Mckybarf: But christians are better off than the rest because we have one thing that none else has. We have CHRIST JESUS, who died and rose again and upon ascension gave us his HOLY SPIRIT. One of my aunties died early january this year, and a woman of faith like her my eye has never beheld. Though a sickle-cell patient and suseptible to a myraid of illnesses never for once doubted the love of God or wavered in her faith concerning his power to save, purpose and will for her life. Despite her many years or sickness, pains, sufferings, hospital bills, she remained steadfast and till her death remained a pillar of hope for many. She died at 52 of TB, a rare age for sicklers. She never quit praying for healing but when she knew it was time for her departure changed her prayer and began praising and worshipping God on here death bed at the hospital, to the amazement of all that were around. If this isnt a better-off-life, then what is. lol....praise god for sickle cell!!!!!  |
| Re: Why Aren’t Christians Better Off Than Non-christians? by Mckybarf(m): 8:59pm On Oct 25, 2012 |
mazaje:i get your point, but though God wants everyone included he wants it his way. Secular ethics will accept every FILTH just because it operates on 'equality' and 'equity': yet i percieve these to be delusions because at the end of the day the winner takes it all. |
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