Romeo4real:

I don't know the type of Christians you know, or what they have told you. The purpose of Christianity is not to "live longer", be "better protected from disease", or to be "happier" than any other person. There is nowhere in the Bible that alludes to these claims. And remember, anything a Christian asks for has to be within the will of God anyway. We have hashed this out before.

And where did I say that the purpose of Christianity was to live longer lives, or diseases free lives? Christianity promises these things though to those that believe. Christians also underscore the importance of these things and claim that their god provides them with all these things like good health, good protection, guidance, help and support and I said their is no evidence to show for such claims.

There are a miniscule number Christians who fall under my definition - and i doubt that you know them. Even I, don't claim to fall under that definition.

It is not logical to cling to an assertion, when it has been shown to be incorrect. Christianity is a only religion - if you choose to accept a recent man made definition of a "religion".  Taoism and Shinto are not religions - under the definition of the term "Religion" that you subscribe to. You should know that.

I thought all religions were a way of life, no?

I'm on page 206 of The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins.

I have also read the God Delusion. Whilst is a mildly entertaining, and even stimulating book, it does nothing to assuage any arguments about God's existence apart from flagellating fundamentalists atheists like my brother - Mazaje. The arguments put forward are merely assertions with no proof -  The same things the Atheists accuse the Creationists and God Believers of!

The book is lazy, under researched, inconsistent and quite bellicose/angry in places. Most of the arguments put forward are sloppy, illogical, and frankly nonsensical - like his argument about how the universe would not be different if God did not exist.

Conclusion: A silly but entertaining book.

Mad_Max:

It may have begun that way but things have come a long way since then. It seems the only religion that hasn't separated itself from state is Islam, and you can see the result. Retrogression. I'm not sure you need to be religious or spiritual to be moral or to craft a just system of laws. There are non-religious persons with better morals than religious ones. I heard a Nigerian state governor married a 13 year old, and the unapologetic slowpoke insists his Islamic religion is above the law. It's criminal behavior. One of many reasons no religion can be above secular law.

Religion also can, and very much does, inhibit a person's moral growth and development. The religion based ethics that people advocate always boils down to a variation on the "might makes right" theme, or other similarly flawed foundations (e.g., since the god created us we are obligated to obey it). Religious based ethics or moral is always based on the "us versus them" idea, "We versus the world". The moral or ethics is always predicated on this shaky platform. . . . By giving people false ideas about ethics, religion is actually stunting their ability to fully understand real ethics. Aside from those kinds of meta-ethical issues, religion also gives people horrible normative ethical principles on issues ranging from freedom of speech, women's rights, child indoctrination and abuse, gay rights, etc. Our world would be far better off ethically if religion did not play such an influential role IMO. Secular ethics remain the best because it is comprehensive and tries to involve every body. . . .

Interesting posts. 'Where's the substance?' Excellent question. It's true. When we 'git religion' we go a little mad and point fingers and bay for the blood of those that don't believe as we do. It's the 'privileged frame of reference' mania that besets us all. Each of us believe he/she is 'special', his thoughts unique and profound, his insight the truth, the whole truth and nothing but. When we believe something to be true, it's sometimes inconceivable to our vanity that we might be wrong, that others believe different things just as deeply and feel that they are just as correct.'I' think it's true, so it must be true. And then you get others who believe the same and a little clique of 'those who have seen the light' starts, and the out-group is viewed with pity or contempt or hate. The more of our life we've invested in believing a set of things to be 'true', the harder it is to examine those beliefs objectively. It doesn't help that people are a raging volcano of conscious and unconscious intent, doubts, hopes, primitive fears, dreams, hates, loves, and these things interact with what we hold to be 'true' or 'false' at any time.

I know well the horrors of religious indoctrination to the mind. I wasn't joking when I called it a form of mental illness. But 'religion' by itself does nothing. People do everything. We're human, and it's the way people are. You're not obligated to accept anyone's view of God as yours, especially since they make all sorts of authoritative pronoucements for which no proof is ever offered. But aren't you judging 'God, if It exists, by the awful standards of what human beings say and do and write and believe to be 'true'? What if none of those things count or change a thing where He's concerned? What if our standards, our ways, our thoughts, our actions, our philosophies, our beliefs, our religions, are not His, and so He isn't in the least bound by those things? Sometimes I think each religion gets the 'God' it deserves. But maybe, just maybe, in spite of human deception and folly and wishful thinking, maybe humanity hasn't been foolish all along and there is actually a reality that transcends all this and isn't in the least affected by it.

This post should be considered very important because it raises fundamental questions on the African variation of Christianity. Christianity in Africa has been reduced to the status of traditional African religions, its main motivation is to offer some kinds of supernatural protection, prosperity or some kind of supernatural power to its adherents. African Christianity that does not offer its adherents these things would die fast. It must promise reward for the undeserving, punishment for ones enemies, magic, and power to control anything, through mantras, night vigils and other spiritual rituals .

The problem is that none of these so called advantages can be statistically verified, in fact the opposite appears to be the case, the more religious a sect seem to be, the more you would find poverty and disease.

wirinet:

This post should be considered very important because it raises fundamental questions on the African variation of Christianity. Christianity in Africa has been reduced to the status of traditional African religions, its main motivation is to offer some kinds of supernatural protection, prosperity or some kind of supernatural power to its adherents. African Christianity that does not offer its adherents these things would die fast. It must promise reward for the undeserving, punishment for ones enemies, magic, and power to control anything, through mantras, night vigils and other spiritual rituals .

The problem is that none of these so called advantages can be statistically verified, in fact the opposite appears to be the case, the more religious a sect seem to be, the more you would find poverty and disease.

The "let my enemies die by fire" brand that exist in Nigeria. . . .The "Let my enemies go blind and let me  always be blessed type" .

Mad_Max:

Interesting posts. 'Where's the substance?' Excellent question. It's true. When we 'git religion' we go a little mad and point fingers and bay for the blood of those that don't believe as we do. It's the 'privileged frame of reference' mania that besets us all. Each of us believe he/she is 'special', his thoughts unique and profound, his insight the truth, the whole truth and nothing but. When we believe something to be true, it's sometimes inconceivable to our vanity that we might be wrong, that others believe different things just as deeply and feel that they are just as correct.'I' think it's true, so it must be true. And then you get others who believe the same and a little clique of 'those who have seen the light' starts, and the out-group is viewed with pity or contempt or hate. The more of our life we've invested in believing a set of things to be 'true', the harder it is to examine those beliefs objectively. It doesn't help that people are a raging volcano of conscious and unconscious intent, doubts, hopes, primitive fears, dreams, hates, loves, and these things interact with what we hold to be 'true' or 'false' at any time.

I know well the horrors of religious indoctrination to the mind. I wasn't joking when I called it a form of mental illness. But 'religion' by itself does nothing. People do everything. We're human, and it's the way people are. You're not obligated to accept anyone's view of God as yours, especially since they make all sorts of authoritative pronoucements for which no proof is ever offered. But aren't you judging 'God, if It exists, by the awful standards of what human beings say and do and write and believe to be 'true'? What if none of those things count or change a thing where He's concerned? What if our standards, our ways, our thoughts, our actions, our philosophies, our beliefs, our religions, are not His, and so He isn't in the least bound by those things? Sometimes I think each religion gets the 'God' it deserves. But maybe, just maybe, in spite of human deception and folly and wishful thinking, maybe humanity hasn't been foolish all along and there is actually a reality that transcends all this and isn't in the least affected by it.

Nice thoughts. . .

Romeo4real:

I have also read the God Delusion. Whilst is a mildly entertaining, and even stimulating book, it does nothing to assuage any arguments about God's existence apart from flagellating fundamentalists atheists like my brother - Mazaje. The arguments put forward are merely assertions with no proof -  The same things the Atheists accuse the Creationists and God Believers of!
The book is lazy, under researched, inconsistent and quite bellicose/angry in places. Most of the arguments put forward are sloppy, illogical, and frankly nonsensical - like his argument about how the universe would not be different if God did not exist.
Conclusion: A silly but entertaining book.

People have done a lot of evil in the name of religion. It's enough to make anyone angry. But he holds on to his sense of humour. The book wouldn't have had to be written at all if religions would live and let live, and if indoctrination wasn't so dangerous. I don't know what kind of research is necessary for a book about something conventionally unresearchable (God) but it's well argued. One of the arguments I had an issue with is that an Intelligence must first evolve from humbler beginnings before it can create. Which means a God would have to have evolved as we did. Basis? US. He uses the ONLY instance of life that he knows, biological life on earth, as what must hold true for all life and all existence everywhere. That's stretching an argument too far. It's not grounded in anything he knows for sure, but is merely an assumption. But I'm finding the book excellent. 

Anti-christians trying to define christianity. May God help because you are blind to see the truth. Most of you will know the truth when you die ,and you will see the truth for yourself.

Jekwumoore:

Anti-christians trying to define christianity. May God help because you are blind to see the truth. Most of you will know the truth when you die ,and you will see the truth for yourself.

Most of you will know the truth when YOU DIE!!!! lmao

Romeo4real:

I have also read the God Delusion. Whilst is a mildly entertaining, and even stimulating book, it does nothing to assuage any arguments about God's existence apart from flagellating fundamentalists atheists like my brother - Mazaje. The arguments put forward are merely assertions with no proof -  The same things the Atheists accuse the Creationists and God Believers of!

The book is lazy, under researched, inconsistent and quite bellicose/angry in places. Most of the arguments put forward are sloppy, illogical, and frankly nonsensical - like his argument about how the universe would not be different if God did not exist.
Conclusion: A silly but entertaining book.

I've finished the book. It's still a great book, but I see what you mean about some of his arguments being lazy. He 'demolishes' the more absurd arguments for the existence of God while ignoring the better ones, all in a rush to convert the world to atheism. His indignation about the insidiousness of fundamentalism is justified. People do bad things in the name of religion. But there are courageous religious individuals who did great things all through history. Where's the balance? Slanted.

Fundamentalism is a malady that afflicts all sides equally. There are scientists who are "fundamentalists" in their thinking, who have gone on to do abhorrent things all in the name of science. I personally, have no time for fundamentalism of any kind or sheen.
There is nothing fanatical or fundamentalist about the teachings in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ. People choose to interpret things in a way that is aligned with their initial thinking.This is a case of Don't blame the Game, Blame the Player.

As you rightly pointed out, many great things have been done in the name of religion. Unrivalled acts of kindness, compassion and selflessness. These do not, can not, and must not erase the equally abhorrent things done in the name of religion.
Contrary to popular thinking, most wars are not caused by religion - A catalyst? Yes. Contributing factor? Yes, but rarely the cause. Show me any war, political unrest, rebellion or revolution, and I'll show you injustices, land grabs, genocide, ethnic cleansing and government terrorism.

Romeo4real:

Fundamentalism is a malady that afflicts all sides equally. There are scientists who are "fundamentalists" in their thinking, who have gone on to do abhorrent things all in the name of science. I personally, have no time for fundamentalism of any kind or sheen.
There is nothing fanatical or fundamentalist about the teachings in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ. People choose to interpret things in a way that is aligned with their initial thinking.This is a case of Don't blame the Game, Blame the Player.

As you rightly pointed out, many great things have been done in the name of religion. Unrivalled acts of kindness, compassion and selflessness. These do not, can not, and must not erase the equally abhorrent things done in the name of religion.
Contrary to popular thinking, most wars are not caused by religion - A catalyst? Yes. Contributing factor? Yes, but rarely the cause. Show me any war, political unrest, rebellion or revolution, and I'll show you injustices, land grabs, genocide, ethnic cleansing and government terrorism.

A++
But bolded will be very hard to sell. Many will argue, too, that religion has been more than a "contributing factor" in many wars.

Romeo4real:
Contrary to popular thinking, most wars are not caused by religion - A catalyst? Yes. Contributing factor? Yes, but rarely the cause.

This reminds me of the movie Troy from a few years ago.

Paris, Prince of Troy steals away at night back to Troy - with Helen, wife of Menelaus the Mycenaean King. Menelaus is infuriated at this treachery from his wife and Paris. King Agamemnon - ruler of the entire land, who had for years been dreaming about conquering Troy - uses this as as an opportunity, as justification or reason if you will, to invade Troy. Agamemnon did not care about Helen. He did not even care about Menelaus. He would've invaded Troy one way or another. Helen just happened to be a convenient vehicle for him to ride on.

My point is the same as Romeo's. People who will kill, steal, hate, discriminate etc will do so one way or another, with or without religion. Religion just happens to be their "justification" or outlet for that which already exists in them. If religion didn't exist, they would use something else.

@Myjoe, what's up doc?

JeSoul:


This reminds me of the movie Troy from a few years ago.

Paris, Prince of Troy steals away at night back to Troy - with Helen, wife of Menelaus the Mycenaean King. Menelaus is infuriated at this treachery from his wife and Paris. King Agamemnon - ruler of the entire land, who had for years been dreaming about conquering Troy - uses this as as an opportunity, as justification or reason if you will, to invade Troy. Agamemnon did not care about Helen. He did not even care about Menelaus. He would've invaded Troy one way or another. Helen just happened to be a convenient vehicle for him to ride on.

My point is the same as Romeo's. People who will kill, steal, hate, discriminate etc will do so one way or another, with or without religion. Religion just happens to be their "justification" or outlet for that which already exists in them. If religion didn't exist, they would use something else.

I think it actually happens more the other way round. That is, people who want to kill those who refuse to share their faith seize on a convenient political excuse to do it. I don't think Uthman Dan Fodio even needed any such excuses to invade Hausaland. Ditto for King Richard's wars to take the "holy land" from the Moslems. The Pope's endorsement was all he needed.

JeSoul:

@Myjoe, what's up doc?

Cool, here. How's you? 

This reminds me of the movie Troy from a few years ago.

LOL! The funniest part of this movie for me, was when Paris lay at Menelaus's feet, staring death in the eye, dishevelled and utterly broken, and Menelaus shouted out to the balconies of Troy to Helen, who was watching, "IS THIS WHAT YOU LEFT ME FOR?". You could see the look on Helen's face; at that fleeting moment, she agreed with Menelaus - Paris was not much of a man! Even Hector was not impressed.

Romeo4real:

LOL! The funniest part of this movie for me, was when Paris lay at Menelaus's feet, staring death in the eye, dishevelled and utterly broken, and Menelaus shouted out to the balconies of Troy to Helen, who was watching, "IS THIS WHAT YOU LEFT ME FOR?". You could see the look on Helen's face; at that fleeting moment, she agreed with Menelaus - Paris was not much of a man! Even Hector was not impressed.

Its been a while u last showed up hope cool

@toba - im cool bro. NL, especially the religious section can be a bit draining sometimes regarding the sheer volume of repetitive arguments. It good to recharge and come back!

@mazaje
for once i have to disagree with you because i believe christians are better of that non christians (but only better in their vivid imagination) 

Romeo4real:

@toba - im cool bro. NL, especially the religious section can be a bit draining sometimes regarding the sheer volume of repetitive arguments. It good to recharge and come back!

U right guy. David,noetic&nuclearboy once same thing. 'theres God,theres no god' can be tiring at times.may be we need to start to spring up 'intra religious topic'

Edit

manmustwac:

@mazaje
for once i have to disagree with you because i believe christians are better of that non christians (but only better in their vivid imagination) 

Are u not supposed to be unbiased mr atheist moderator?

toba:

Are u not supposed to be unbiased mr atheist moderator?

Only when it comes to deleting posts locking topics moving topics and recommending nairalanders for banning am unbiased. Apart from that am free to express my own opinions. Checkout this topic. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=329644.msg4629560#top

manmustwac:

Only when it comes to deleting posts locking topics moving topics and recommending nairalanders for banning am unbiased. Apart from that am free to express my own opinions. Checkout this topic. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=329644.msg4629560#top

I see a refree can 'express' his opinion to criticize the other team during a match the refree is officiating.
Well since 2006 that i ve been here i know moderators are free to express their biased opinion. Im yet to see where A.K.O,Jesoul&Mukina have expressed any biased opinion.I trust if they did,they would be criticized. Manmustwac nothing do u.Keep expressing ur opinion what it concerns the theist. Cheers.

Romeo4real:

Fundamentalism is a malady that afflicts all sides equally. There are scientists who are "fundamentalists" in their thinking, who have gone on to do abhorrent things all in the name of science. I personally, have no time for fundamentalism of any kind or sheen.
There is nothing fanatical or fundamentalist about the teachings in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ. People choose to interpret things in a way that is aligned with their initial thinking.This is a case of Don't blame the Game, Blame the Player.

My friend this is V ERY false. . . .

As you rightly pointed out, many great things have been done in the name of religion. Unrivalled acts of kindness, compassion and selflessness. These do not, can not, and must not erase the equally abhorrent things done in the name of religion.
Contrary to popular thinking, most wars are not caused by religion - A catalyst? Yes. Contributing factor? Yes, but rarely the cause. Show me any war, political unrest, rebellion or revolution, and I'll show you injustices, land grabs, genocide, ethnic cleansing and government terrorism.

This again is false, because there are many wars that were and still being fought purely on the basis of religion, Even in the bible there are passages where the bible god tells his chosen men to go and kill others only because they worshiped other gods and enticed his chosen people to worship them, the korans has similar stories too. . . .Even the holy books have many stories of wars fought purely on the basis of religion or the Gods telling people to go kill others for worshipping or practicing the "wrong" religion. . . .

Romeo4real:

Fundamentalism is a malady that afflicts all sides equally. There are scientists who are "fundamentalists" in their thinking, who have gone on to do abhorrent things all in the name of science. I personally, have no time for fundamentalism of any kind or sheen.
There is nothing fanatical or fundamentalist about the teachings in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ. [/b]People choose to interpret things in a way that is aligned with their initial thinking.This is a case of Don't blame the Game, Blame the Player.

It seems we have both read different bibles.

As you rightly pointed out, many great things have been done in the name of religion. Unrivalled acts of kindness, compassion and selflessness. These do not, can not, and must not erase the equally abhorrent things done in the name of religion.
[b]Contrary to popular thinking, most wars are not caused by religion - A catalyst? Yes. Contributing factor? Yes, but rarely the cause. Show me any war, political unrest, rebellion or revolution, and I'll show you injustices, land grabs, genocide, ethnic cleansing and government terrorism.

How can you say that religion is not the cause of war even when war is sanctioned and encouraged by God in the bible? People in the bible were encouraged and commanded by God to fight wars in his name and religion. For example Yahweh tells the Israelites he will give them the land of Canaan (inhabited by people who worship other Gods which is the ultimate sin to Yahweh, besides breaking the Sabbath and not sacrificing
animals to him) if they obey him and kill everyone in Canaan. They kill everyone in Canaan and in all
the other lands they set foot on (as God commands them) and take virgin women and livestock as
war booty (which is perfectly okay with Yahweh).

Here a few more readings from the bible were wars are encouraged or sanctioned by God.

- God tells Israel that they are supposed to destroy all the people in every land they set foot upon
and then take the land for themselves because God says that's their inheritance from him -- their
"Father." (Deuteronomy 11:24-25)

- Kill anyone who worships other gods! (Deuteronomy 17:2-5).

- The Lord (Yahweh) is a "man of war." (Exodus 15:3) Describes him perfectly.

- God tells Israel that they are supposed to destroy all the people in every land they set foot upon
and then take the land for themselves because God says that's their inheritance from him -- their
"Father." (Deuteronomy 11:24-25)

The  bible which I guess you believe is the word of God has God himself encouraging people to kill unbelievers and fight them for worshipping other Gods or fight in the name of God and his religion so what point were you trying to make. Religion has been the cause of war and still remain a cause of war all over the earth as mazaje said. There is no need debating that fact.

Romeo4real:

I don't know the type of Christians you know, or what they have told you. The purpose of Christianity is not to "live longer", be "better protected from disease", or to be "happier" than any other person. There is nowhere in the Bible that alludes to these claims. And remember, anything a Christian asks for has to be within the will of God anyway. We have hashed this out before.

On what basis did you come to this conclusion? What do you mean when you say that there is no where in the bible that alludes to some of the point the OP raises?

Lets look at the bible and see where it promises those things.

The bible promises protection to people that believe in God.

Psalm 37 says, "Trust in the Lord, and do good; so you will live in the land, and enjoy security."

Psalm 32 v 7:
You are my hiding place; you will protect me from trouble and surround me with songs of deliverance.

Psalm 34 v 7-8:
The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them. Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the man who takes refuge in him.

There are many promises in scripture of God's love and care (see: Romans 8:35-39; I Peter 5:7). For example the bible teaches about God's provision of guardian angels (Matthew 18:10) to protect. The psalmist talks about, God being "our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble" (Psalm 46:1). There are also great examples of God's intervention for his people recorded in the bible.

Is there any evidence that shows these promises to be true? I don't think there is.

Actually, God's love and care extends to all, irrespective of your religion and status. We came up with all the divisions there are: race, geographical borders, states, religions, class,etc. If any group claims God for itself alone, that's their problem and has nothing to do with the reality of how God orders His universe. Jews wrote the things in the bible, and almost everything in it is from their cultural and religious perspective, not a universal one. And that includes their Jewish cultural creation myth. Every culture has one, and some are far more sophisticated and beautiful than the Genesis story. We know there's cause and effect, our actions producing assorted outcomes.Other people's will can act on us to bring about undesirable results. If I take a walk in an unsafe neighbourhood and a mugger shows up, points a gun at my head and pulls the trigger, I will die. My death will have nothing to do with the love of God, merely another person expressing his free will towards me. If a pastor is in a plane and it goes down, he will die. The laws of physics won't be suspended on his behalf, and the others on the plane are just as valuable and beloved of God as he is. I think He sometimes intervenes to save us, individuals and groups, when it fulfils a larger purpose, but that's for Him to know. You might recognize His intervention, or you might not. It doesn't matter.

But it seems we DO have guardian angels. Yours are with you right now as you're staring at your computer screen. Whether you think they're there or not is irrelevant. They're serving God by serving you, and aren't there to prove anything to you.  They do the most thankless jobs in the universe. They're invested in the outcome of your life, try to warn you of danger and try to protect you from undesirable outcomes as much as they're able. When you die and you're in their dimension you might recognize them when you see them. I hear some people are allowed to return as guardian angels to their children or a loved one they left behind. Sometimes people seem to return physically. But they won't remember since their memories of who they used to be is in their brain, and that brain is rotting away in some graveyard. Different genes and dna comprise the new they. They have a new brain and new memories of their present reality. Malachi prophesied  Elijah's return and Jesus appears to confirm it.

Malachi 4:5-6
"See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes. He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers

Matthew 11: 11-15
I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear.

Mad max, long time, how are you?

@Mazaje -

My friend this is V ERY false. . . .

Please show me anywhere in the Bible that teaches fanaticism and fundamentalism.

There is nothing fanatical or fundamentalist about the teachings in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ

This again is false, because there are many wars that were and still being fought purely on the basis of religion,

I don't know what you mean by "basis", but please show me a war, any war, where religion was the cause.

Even in the bible there are passages where the bible god tells his chosen men to go and kill others only because they worshiped other gods and enticed his chosen people to worship them, the korans has similar[b] stories[/b] too. . . .Even the holy books have many stories of wars fought purely on the basis of religion or the Gods telling people to go kill others for worshipping or practicing the "wrong" religion. . . .

You have said it all. The parts you allude to are stories. Historical recollections and subsequent transcriptions of real events. They are not teachings, preachings, commandments, philosophies or precepts. Can you understand that?

@bindex -

It seems we have both read different bibles.

It certainly seems that we have. Please show me anything in YOUR Bible that contradicts my statement. Here it is again - "There is nothing fanatical or fundamentalist about the teachings in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ"

How can you say that religion is not the cause of war even when war is sanctioned and encouraged by God in the bible?

Please read you Bible properly before spouting rubbish. How does war being sanctioned by God in specific cases, to a specific group of people, equate to "religion being the cause of war"?

People in the bible were encouraged and commanded by God to fight wars in his name and religion.

So because God instructed some people to fight back for the land which he had given them then means that all wars are cause by religion? How does that make any sense to you. And since you guys don't believe in the Bible, why do you keep returning to it to buttress your points? Discount it altogether and forward an alternative argument why religion is the cause of wars.

The  bible which I guess you believe is the word of God has God himself encouraging people to kill unbelievers and fight them for worshipping other Gods or fight in the name of God

Again, please show us where God has instructed "people" (I take it this means everybody or every Christian) to kill non believers or fight people worshipping other Gods. Please show us.

This is already becoming a waste of my time.

I'm great Bindex. Thou?

Romeo4real:

@bindex -
It certainly seems that we have. Please show me anything in YOUR Bible that contradicts my statement. Here it is again - "There is nothing fanatical or fundamentalist about the teachings in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ"

Just so that we get straight to the point, I will like you to define fundamentalism.

Please read you Bible properly before spouting rubbish. How does war being sanctioned by God in specific cases, to a specific group of people, equate to "religion being the cause of war"?

You affirmed that wars are not caused by religion and I objected to that statement because a lot of wars were caused by religion, a lot of wars are still being caused by religion. I alluded to the bible just to show you that so many wars even in the bible were fought purely on religious basis. This I believe destroys your assertion that religion is not responsible for war, because even in the holy books you have wars being fought mainly because of religion.

So because God instructed some people to fight back for the land which he had given them then means that all wars are cause by religion? How does that make any sense to you. And since you guys don't believe in the Bible, why do you keep returning to it to buttress your points? Discount it altogether and forward an alternative argument why religion is the cause of wars.

Please can you show me where I said all wars are caused by religion, you are just making things up and running commentary on them. I just alluded to the bible to show you that your assertions are not completely true since there are wars fought mainly because of religion in the bible. Where in the bible were the chosen men of God told to fight back?

Again, please show us where God has instructed "people" (I take it this means everybody or every Christian) to kill non believers or fight people worshipping other Gods. Please show us.

The bible clearly has passages where God told his chosen people to kill others. Below are a few out of many. It seems you prefer running commentaries on your own because there is no where in my previous post that talks about people meaning everybody or every christian. The point still remains, the bible itself has God commanding people to fight wars based only on religion.

- They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)

- Kill anyone who worships other Gods (Deuteronomy 17:2-5).

This is already becoming a waste of my time.

Why then are you engaging yourself in a waste of time. Take it easy.