Yeswecan

Violent tribalism in Nigeria did not start with the Civil War and thus your claim that "Ojukwu made Ndigbo hate the union but turned around to collect money from the union" can not be further from the truth.  As early as the 1940s even before Nigeria's independence. History shows that Igbos came under violent attacks in the North. You also attempted to explain the relationship between Ndigbo and Nigeria; and how Igbos see themselves in Nigeria's geopolitics as one defined by a simple lecture from Ojukwu to Igbos to hate Nigeria. Again that is a clear derision of a people who suffered 3years of full miltary assault from the Nigerian state in which Ojukwu had no choice but to defend his people.

Now it is entirely up to you what you want to make of Nigeria's history from 1967 - 70. I have made it a policy not to get into these kinds of debates because Nigerians like living in denial. But on this occassion I was incensed by you trying to make a unifying argument and think it is perfectly ok to  deride a whole ethnic group and call it a factual statement.

On the issue of Igbo President. I for one don't usually worry too much about that because  I don't believe an Igbo President will change my fortunes considerably compared to anyone else if the President in question has no clue. I don't think those who clamour for Igbo President are naive enough to think it will change their fotunes either. It will also not lead to actualization of Biafra as some non-Igbos seem to think. But I guess some folks want to know if they are as Nigerian as everyone else. If systemically the Igbos who constitute one of the three largest ethnic groups are treated with suspicion when it comes to lead our country, then may be our country needs to do some soul searching.

Thats what that agitation is all about.

Even though these days some folks try to define Igbo in terms of geography which is not the case. Based on what bein Igbo throughly means CDS Paul Dike is an Igbo man and since he has been CDS he has not undermined the territorial integrity of Nigeria. So folks just need to rid themselves of their paranoia.

~Bluetooth:

Yeswecan
if nigeria as a country doesnt need rotation,i guess in your own opinion we should do away with 'federal character'.then,nobody should blame soludo for dominating CBN with igbo nor blame the northerners for dominating NNPc.i guess we can also do away with northern ministers since the south is the president.just imagine how nigeria will look if we dont have federal character and putting it a larger perspective,compare it with zoning.that is if you understand the importance of federal character.

You are putting federal character into a larger perspective and comparing it with zoning - You cannot compare politics appointment to presidential election. Rotational presidency is the easiest way to doom for us, socially it could cripple our unity and make us more ethnic oriented/conscious. Politically it will bring us everything but the best man for the job, how can you advocate that?

Why do you think of north and south in this crucial moment? Who cares if ministers are from north? nobody but you and who blamed soludo for dominating CBN? In my opinion he is the best man for the job and he left CBN with a worthy legacy . . I don't want to know if he is an Igbo man or not, he is a Nigerian and he is qualified for the job. My contention is rotational presidency- it is nonsense there could be other small arrangements sure there are grass root representation form LGA and all that stuff not rotational presidency . It is senseless to me, . We can never gain from rotational presidency. .

Federal Character is Nigeria's affirmative action.

It is not the same thing as zoning.

mikeansy:

Yeswecan

Violent tribalism in Nigeria did not start with the Civil War and thus your claim that "Ojukwu made Ndigbo hate the union but turned around to collect money from the union" can not be further from the truth.  As early as the 1940s even before Nigeria's independence. History shows that Igbos came under violent attacks in the North. You also attempted to explain the relationship between Ndigbo and Nigeria; and how Igbos see themselves in Nigeria's geopolitics as one defined by a simple lecture from Ojukwu to Igbos to hate Nigeria. Again that is a clear derision of a people who suffered 3years of full miltary assault from the Nigerian state in which Ojukwu had no choice but to defend his people.

Now it is entirely up to you what you want to make of Nigeria's history from 1967 - 70. I have made it a policy not to get into these kinds of debates because Nigerians like living in denial. But on this occassion I was incensed by you trying to make a unifying argument and think it is perfectly ok to  deride a whole ethnic group and call it a factual statement.

On the issue of Igbo President. I for one don't usually worry too much about that because  I don't believe an Igbo President will change my fortunes considerably compared to anyone else if the President in question has no clue. I don't think those who clamour for Igbo President are naive enough to think it will change their fotunes either. It will also not lead to actualization of Biafra as some non-Igbos seem to think. But I guess some folks want to know if they are as Nigerian as everyone else. If systemically the Igbos who constitute one of the three largest ethnic groups are treated with suspicion when it comes to lead our country, then may be our country needs to do some soul searching.

Thats what that agitation is all about.

Even though these days some folks try to define Igbo in terms of geography which is not the case. Based on what bein Igbo throughly means CDS Paul Dike is an Igbo man and since he has been CDS he has not undermined the territorial integrity of Nigeria. So folks just need to rid themselves of their paranoia.

I understand you with humility

mikeansy:

Federal Character is Nigeria's affirmative action.

It is not the same thing as zoning.

I wounder why Bluetooth would compare federal character to zoning. . Federal character simply seeks to ensure that appointments to public service institutions fairly reflect the linguistic, ethnic, religious, and geographic diversity of the country. . It is the president that decides the direction of the country all appointees are working on president's plan . . they are incomparable. There is similar arrangement in every multicultural societies . . . not rotational presidency

yeswecan:

I wounder why Bluetooth would compare federal character to zoning. . Federal character simply seeks to ensure that appointments to public service institutions fairly reflect the linguistic, ethnic, religious, and geographic diversity of the country. . It is the president that decides the direction all appointees are working on president's plan . . they are incomparable there is similar arrangement in every multicultural societies . . . not rotational presidency

i compared them the two because in a multi-ethnic society like nigeria,there is the need to ensure a joint contribution from all the tribe to work as one.to achieve that,a concensus agreement should be reached among all the groups involved.the north have held on to the president for a long time through the military.they dominated the south because there was no effective system of transfer of power.if there is no zoning couple with the rigging strategy of the ruling party,it is possible to deduce that jonathan can manipulate the system to favour the south not for 8 years but above that,in the sense that any southern president will make sure that his successor comes from the south.if that is the case,how would the other tribe feel if obasanjo had not handed over to yaradua but to another yoruba man.

~Bluetooth:

i compared them the two because in a multi-ethnic society like nigeria,there is the need to ensure a joint contribution from all the tribe to work as one.to achieve that,a concensus agreement should be reached among all the groups involved.the north have held on to the president for a long time through the military.[b]they dominated the south because there was no effective system of transfer of power.if there is no zoning couple with the rigging strategy of the ruling party,it is possible to deduce that jonathan can manipulate the system to favour the south not for 8 years but above that,in the sense that any southern president will make sure that his successor comes from the south.[/b]if that is the case,how would the other tribe feel if obasanjo had not handed over to yaradua but to another yoruba man.

Southerners are too dumb.

Bluetooth

The sad story of politics in Nigeria is due to failure of smart politics from the South. If they want to sustain zoning then fair enough let them make it law and binding on all regardless of party. However I am not scared of lack of existence of zoning because the same sentiments expressed in the South are also expressed amongst Biroms, Lantangs, Idomas, Nupes, Gwaris and yes even some Hausas, Kanuris and Fulanis.

We just have not been able to capture the aspirations of moderates and progressives wherever they are in the country. There is a new middle-belt proud of its identity and willing and aspiring to break away from living in the shadows of their neighbours like they have done for ages. It is possible to unite these guys around a common coalition for progress with their colleagues down south. The political narrative for this coalition will be positive and one that even a Hausa-Fulani man can identify with should they choose to move forward with others. But if we continue to define politics in terms of geographical North versus Geogrphical South then we will continue to drown out the voice of the middle-belt and there can only be one winner in a scenario like that.  

Besides that, the lies, Intrigues, Inuendoes and Myths that has sustained ugly politics in Nigeria in the last 50years will simply not survive the digital age. Redemption may not come in 2011 but it will surely come. I have so much reason to hope for a better future.

mikeansy:


Violent tribalism in Nigeria did not start with the Civil War and thus your claim that "Ojukwu made Ndigbo hate the union but turned around to collect money from the union" can not be further from the truth.  As early as the 1940s even before Nigeria's independence. History shows that Igbos came under violent attacks in the North. You also attempted to explain the relationship between Ndigbo and Nigeria; and how Igbos see themselves in Nigeria's geopolitics as one defined by a simple lecture from Ojukwu to Igbos to hate Nigeria. Again that is a clear derision of a people who suffered 3years of full miltary assault from the Nigerian state in which Ojukwu had no choice but to defend his people.

Now it is entirely up to you what you want to make of Nigeria's history from 1967 - 70. I have made it a policy not to get into these kinds of debates because Nigerians like living in denial. But on this occassion I was incensed by you trying to make a unifying argument and think it is perfectly ok to  deride a whole ethnic group and call it a factual statement.

On the issue of Igbo President. I for one don't usually worry too much about that because  I don't believe an Igbo President will change my fortunes considerably compared to anyone else if the President in question has no clue. I don't think those who clamour for Igbo President are naive enough to think it will change their fotunes either. It will also not lead to actualization of Biafra as some non-Igbos seem to think. But I guess some folks want to know if they are as Nigerian as everyone else. If systemically the Igbos who constitute one of the three largest ethnic groups are treated with suspicion when it comes to lead our country, then may be our country needs to do some soul searching.

Thats what that agitation is all about.

Even though these days some folks try to define Igbo in terms of geography which is not the case. Based on what bein Igbo throughly means CDS Paul Dike is an Igbo man and since he has been CDS he has not undermined the territorial integrity of Nigeria. So folks just need to rid themselves of their paranoia.

Thank you my friend for this enlightening post. I could not have said this any better. You truly have a grasp in what the Igbo people think.

mikeansy:

Bluetooth

The sad story of politics in Nigeria is due to failure of smart politics from the South. If they want to sustain zoning then fair enough let them make it law and binding on all regardless of party. However I am not scared of lack of existence of zoning because the same sentiments expressed in the South are also expressed amongst Biroms, Lantangs, Idomas, Nupes, Gwaris and yes even some Hausas, Kanuris and Fulanis.

We just have not been able to capture the aspirations of moderates and progressives wherever they are in the country. There is a new middle-belt proud of its identity and willing and aspiring to break away from living in the shadows of their neighbours like they have done for ages. It is possible to unite these guys around a common coalition for progress with their colleagues down south. The political narrative for this coalition will be positive and one that even a Hausa-Fulani man can identify with should they choose to move forward with others. But if we continue to define politics in terms of geographical North versus Geogrphical South then we will continue to drown out the voice of the middle-belt and there can only be one winner in a scenario like that.  

Besides that, the lies, Intrigues, Inuendoes and Myths that has sustained ugly politics in Nigeria in the last 50years will simply not survive the digital age. Redemption may not come in 2011 but it will surely come. I have so much reason to hope for a better future.

i believe a constitutional recognition to zonig will be beneficial not only to the majority tribe but also to those in minority.there are many pdp governors who happen to come from minority that have benefitted from the zoning sysyem within their states and such has further enhanced peaceful co-existence among the tribe.zoning is all about giving hope to credible people in the minority.the presidency isnt for yoruba or hausa.every tribe has a right to it irrespective of its size,therefore,an avenue should be made for every tribe to get there.

~Bluetooth:

i believe a constitutional recognition to zonig will be beneficial not only to the majority tribe but also to those in minority.there are many pdp governors who happen to come from minority that have benefitted from the zoning sysyem within their states and such has further enhanced peaceful co-existence among the tribe.zoning is all about giving hope to credible people in the minority.the presidency isnt for yoruba or hausa.every tribe has a right to it irrespective of its size,therefore,an avenue should be made for every tribe to get there.

Constitutional recognition to zoning means the constitution recognized our inability to live together under one umbrella . . This is the way it is to me

Bluetooth sound like ethnicity is the only reason people vote . . If it is then whats the essence of the union? Well, i have come to say that is a black lie. . and when you say zoning will be beneficial to small ethnic groups that's a "classist remarks". How do you measure whats beneficial to someone if you remove performance? are you saying contentment is when you have someone from your ethnic group as president? I don't get it, is this really how we think? If you unwrap your statement brother it is just funny someone would think that way . .

Federal character addresses geographic diversity- that is enough. We have local government, 36 states that could also reflects ethnic/regional representation, senate and the rest of them . . To bring zoning into presidency is not common sense.

We lack politicians in Nigeria-

yeswecan:

Constitutional recognition to zoning means the constitution recognized our inability to live together under one umbrella . . This is the way it is to me

Bluetooth sound like ethnicity is the only reason people vote . . If it is then whats the essence of the union? Well, i have come to say that is a black lie. . and when you say zoning will be beneficial to small ethnic groups that's a "classist remarks". How do you measure whats beneficial to someone if you remove performance? are you saying contentment is when you have someone from your ethnic group as president? I don't get it, is this really how we think? If you unwrap your statement brother it is just funny someone would think that way . .

Federal character addresses geographic diversity- that is enough. We have local government, 36 states that could also reflects ethnic/regional representation, senate and the rest of them . . To bring zoning into presidency is not common sense.

We lack politicians in Nigeria-

you can't rule ethnic consciousness when you talk about nigeria presidency and i asked you a question to support my opinion which you didnt answer.^^what would be your own reaction if in 2007 obasanjo decided to handover to a yoruba and after spending 8 years,he decided to handover to another yoruba just because they all claimed it was done on merit.do you see other ethnic protesting or just looking?.please answer me

~Bluetooth:

you can't rule ethnic consciousness when you talk about nigeria presidency and i asked you a question to support my opinion which you didnt answer.^^what would be your own reaction if in 2007 obasanjo decided to handover to a yoruba and after spending 8 years,he  decided to handover to another yoruba just because they all claimed it was done on merit.do you see other ethnic protesting or just looking?.please answer me

Dear Bluetooth - mantra your question and fault it your self. Is this democracy? Whose decision? is it OBJ or Nigerian? Here you highly displayed you understanding . . if it is in the president's power to decide his successor then i would think we can never leave this stagnated position . .  you cannot paint a condemn car and expect it to move. . Lets fix the structures- give us proper electoral reform where the sitting president has no voice in the electoral system whatsoever- where the people's voice count and leaders are directly elected by pool numbers then we can have an ethnic debate, then you would know if Nigerians are ethic sensitive or looking for substance . For all i can tell, the only free election held in Nigeria  (1993) was not based on ethnicity, MKO won across ethnic lines. .  This ethnic nonsense was introduced by the political elites to suit their selfish interest.

To answer your question, if we have 3 consecutive yoruba presidents that reflect the people's choice i don't see any problem with that . .  it could only be a problem if they were imposed not elected . .

To fault your logic you can not oppose a sitting president just because of his ethnicity- more so if he performs.

yeswecan:

Dear Bluetooth - mantra your question and fault it your self. Is this democracy? Whose decision? is it OBJ or Nigerian? Here you highly displayed you understanding . . if it is in the president's power to decide his successor then i would think we can never leave this stagnated position . .  you cannot paint a condemn car and expect it to move. . Lets fix the structures- give us proper electoral reform where the sitting president has no voice in the electoral system whatsoever- where the people's voice count and leaders are directly elected by pool numbers then we can have an ethnic debate, then you would know if Nigerians are ethic sensitive or looking for substance . For all i can tell, the only free election held in Nigeria  (1993) was not based on ethnicity, MKO won across ethnic lines. .  This ethnic nonsense was introduced by the political elites to suit their selfish interest.

To answer your question, if we have 3 consecutive yoruba presidents that reflect the people's choice i don't see any problem with that . .  it could only be a problem if they were imposed not elected . .

To fault your logic you can not oppose a sitting president just because of his ethnicity- more so if he performs.

^^^It is not about me but about an environment we found ourselves.ethnic consciousness has been in nigeria a lon time ago and as at present,there seem no other remedy than devise a means by which every tribe will participate in the system.let me cite an example and relate it with pdp.
Abiola won the best election so far because he had a political party that was generally accepted by all the ethnics coupled with his personality.SDP was seen as a nigerian party while NRC was a northern one and uptil this day,the same glory the sdp had can be seen in the pdp.
PDP is powerful today because it is national party irrespective of their dubious attitudes and that is why it will difficult for any political party to wrestle power from pdp.Ac has yoruba ideology,Anpp has hausa ideology,PPA and Apga have igbo ideology.so you see why at every point in time,we should be more concern about all political permutations coming from the pdp.they own the NASS,so what are you expecting from the electoral reform ?.nigeria is a country of so many interests;that, you cant rule out and that is why there should be a system that will always stabilize the excesses of those interests.

~Bluetooth:

^^^It is not about me but about an environment we found ourselves.ethnic consciousness has been in nigeria a lon time ago and as at present,there seem no other remedy than devise a means by which every tribe will participate in the system.let me cite an example and relate it with pdp. A[b]biola won the best election so far because he had a political party that was generally accepted by all the ethnics coupled with his personality.SDP was seen as a nigerian party while NRC was a northern one and uptil this day,the same glory the sdp had can be seen in the pdp. PDP is powerful today because it is national party[/b] irrespective of their dubious attitudes and that is why it will difficult for any political party to wrestle power from pdp.[b]Ac has yoruba ideology,Anpp has hausa ideology,PPA and Apga have igbo ideology.[/b]so you see why at every point in time,we should be more concern about all political permutations coming from the pdp.they own the NASS,so what are you expecting from the electoral reform ?.nigeria is a country of so many interests;that, you cant rule out and that is why there should be a system that will always stabilize the excesses of those interests.

Let me unwrap this ! ! You are trying to say PDP and SDP were generally accepted because they are national parties without ethnic considerations . In other words Nigerians would frown to political parties/policies that are based on ethnic ideologies  even the host communities would frown at these parties, ok you've said it all, now you can see the inconsistency in your post, you claim the northerners run things in Nigeria yet you branded NRC a norther party. NRC(NORTHERN IDEOLOGY) loosed the 1993 pool even in the north to a national party- also ANPP a northern ideology isn't dong that well- the national parties are dong fine from your analysis.

Can you relate now .?

If you really believe your post then you should also know Nigerian are not tribalist cus that's the hidden message in your post.  If that was to be the case, all northerners would vote for a northern party and the west would do the same.

Now this is my contention- Nigerians are not as ethic conscious as we think, the political elites deceived us into believing we are for their interest hence we could have a normal process that rewards substance to ethicist/zoning nonsense.

With respect to your closing statement, we all know the right thing- give us credible elections where just anyone can contest and win. If we do things right we don't have to worry about our president's zone or ethnicity . .  let the people decide