AZeD1:

That is not what codetemplar is saying

For your other posts, prices in Nigeria are set by NERC not investors.

That's not what I said but what he is saying is also correct. 10mw plant will cost more per unit compared to a 300mw plant.

AZeD1:

That is not what codetemplar is saying

For your other posts, prices in Nigeria are set by NERC not investors.

Price are set by both. Genco set theirs then NERC sets the additional components to compesate of regional factors specific to each DISCO.

MIKOLOWISKA:
transmissions can also be decentralised

It can, but is uneconomical.
Power systems need reduncy alot at the generation level to beat peak/off-peak variation and that calls for a pool of available power plants that can be acheived via centralization.

AZeD1:

You are missing the point.
codertempler wrote the following on page one


And I responded that the size of the power plant is not a factor in pricing. Pricing is set by NERC so Mr A building a 500MW plant doesn't me his power would be cheaper than Mr B who's plant is 250MW.

That's our argument. It has nothing to do with the technology of the turbine.

Thank God you finally admitted your mistake. The CCGT thing has a massive scale of economy effect. We can learn from each other without arguing.

AZeD1,

https://qz.com/1125355/solar-and-wind-are-now-the-cheapest-energy-around-unless-you-need-to-store-it/

yemmight:
I think the best way to handle power is to decentralize. Let each State manager their own energy. Too many project being managed by the Federal. I remember when Tinubu started Enron power project in 1999/2000. You can imagine if FG gave support and approval to such project, we should be talking about different stories today. And you know if this is successful in Lagos, other state will follow. Way to go Ambode.

Enron was poorly conceived and its death welcome.

CodeTemplar:
AZeD1,

https://qz.com/1125355/solar-and-wind-are-now-the-cheapest-energy-around-unless-you-need-to-store-it/

Your argument was building a bigger plant was better than smaller plant which is false if they both run on the same technology.

yemmight:
I think the best way to handle power is to decentralize. Let each State manager their own energy. Too many project being managed by the Federal. I remember when Tinubu started Enron power project in 1999/2000. You can imagine if FG gave support and approval to such project, we should be talking about different stories today. And you know if this is successful in Lagos, other state will follow. Way to go Ambode.

The Enron project was completed and its currently owned by the Folawiyos. It not currently generating any power because of gas issues. Sahara Energy wanted to buy it and their offer was refused so they shut the gas pipeline supplying it.

AZeD1:


Your argument was building a bigger plant was better than smaller plant which is false if they both run on the same technology.

I gave you that link to further buttress my point and didn't expect this shameless and false revision of simple facts.

Check out the position of gas combined cycle in the link I supplied you.

CodeTemplar:
Thank you. Solution will be to build a large scaled power plant with good scale of economy to drive down price of the power that will be eventually sold to industries. Another point of note is being careful not to overprice the power sold and therefore kill off businesses with high power cost. Lagos already has the printing industry of West Africa for example and it will be so unwise to choke them off with high power rate.

CodeTemplar:
I gave you that link to further buttress my point and didn't expect this shameless and false revision of simple facts.

Check out the position of gas combined cycle in the link I supplied you.

See part in red.

AZeD1:




See part in red.

You are still qoiting me out context because you refused to acknowledge that CCGT is only possible with large power plants. I supplied you with so many material on CCGT which you he refused to acknowledge untill that s moment. Large plants above The 100MW mark are the appropriate plants that support CCGT more and that has been proven. I gave even additional sources to enlighten you but seems you are too embarrassed at your mistakes.

CodeTemplar:
You are still qoiting me out context because you refused to acknowledge that CCGT is only possible with large power plants. I supplied you with so many material on CCGT which you he refused to acknowledge untill that s moment. Large plants above The 100MW mark are the appropriate plants that support CCGT more and that has been proven. I gave even additional sources to enlighten you but seems you are too embarrassed at your mistakes.

1) 100MW is not a large power plant.
2) I did not quote you out of context, I put up what you wrote and you said a large plant would bring the price down.
3) Size doesn't matter when it comes to prices. I have told you this so many times. Mr A builds a 750MW CCGT and Mrs B builds a 150MW CCGT plant. Mr A has no advantage over Mrs B even though his plant is 5 times bigger than Mrs B.
4) Price of power is set by NERC so as far as Mr A and Mrs B are in Lagos, they'll sell their power for the same price.

AZeD1:

1) 100MW is not a large power plant.
2) I did not quote you out of context, I put up what you wrote and you said a large plant would bring the price down.
3) Size doesn't matter when it comes to prices. I have told you this so many times. Mr A builds a 750MW CCGT and Mrs B builds a 150MW CCGT plant. Mr A has no advantage over Mrs B even though his plant is 5 times bigger than Mrs B.
4) Price of power is set by NERC so as far as Mr A and Mrs B are in Lagos, they'll sell their power for the same price.

Can a 5MW CCGT be build. cost effectively?

OkutaNla:

Way to go. Now that would be a very welcome development and strategy.

and we thought only the north were parasites!

CodeTemplar:
Can a 5MW CCGT be build. cost effectively?

Why build a 5MW plant with gas when you can build using renewables like Solar or Wind?
I guess you are obsessed with CCGT but it's not the only way to to build efficient power plants. The largest power plants in world are Hydro and not Gas fired.

Back to your point.
You said.
"Solution will be to build a large scaled power plant with good scale of economy to drive down price of the power that will be eventually sold to industries".

You are insinuating the larger the plant, the cheaper the price which is False
1) Pricing is set by NERC.
2) CCGT is about efficiency. Those who build with CCGT would have a more efficient plant but the consumer wouldn't know it because the price they'll pay is not determined by the efficiency of a power plant. Those who build with CCGT would make more money because their plants are efficient, it won't make it cheaper for the consumer. A taxi driver who uses a Honda would make more than the guy using an Audi because the Honda is fuel efficient and cheaper to maintain but the customer would still pay the same price for entering either of them.

http://www.nercng.org/index.php/home/myto/406-generation-tariff

Read up about how tariffs are calculated.

Pay attention to
It is pertinent to note that feed-in tariffs have been developed for investors wishing to invest in generation capacity that utilises other sources of energy including solar, wind, biomass, and small hydro.


Lastly Lagos State is not building any plants, it's all private.

AZeD1:

Why build a 5MW plant with gas when you can build using renewables like Solar or Wind?
I guess you are obsessed with CCGT but it's not the only way to to build efficient power plants. The largest power plants in world are Hydro and not Gas fired.

Back to your point.
You said.
"Solution will be to build a large scaled power plant with good scale of economy to drive down price of the power that will be eventually sold to industries".

You are insinuating the larger the plant, the cheaper the price which is False
1) Pricing is set by NERC.
2) CCGT is about efficiency. Those who build with CCGT would have a more efficient plant but the consumer wouldn't know it because the price they'll pay is not determined by the efficiency of a power plant. Those who build with CCGT would make more money because their plants are efficient, it won't make it cheaper for the consumer. A taxi driver who uses a Honda would make more than the guy using an Audi because the Honda is fuel efficient and cheaper to maintain but the customer would still pay the same price for entering either of them.

http://www.nercng.org/index.php/home/myto/406-generation-tariff

Read up about how tariffs are calculated.

Pay attention to
It is pertinent to note that feed-in tariffs have been developed for investors wishing to invest in generation capacity that utilises other sources of energy including solar, wind, biomass, and small hydro.


Lastly Lagos State is not building any plants, it's all private.

If you argue that pricing is set by NERC, why is the rate different for various regions then? Why do Northerners pay more for electricity than the south? The cost of generation varies Mr man. If u know sh.it about power systems you will know that even in a single power station there are plant with varying efficiency. Use your brain pro actively and stop sampling irrelevant data as argument.
You can't expect a 50MW gas plant to generate power with same cost as another 200mw plant with CCGT. Just read and understand CCGT and 90% of your ignorance should be gone.

SuperS1Panther:


www.tribuneonlineng.com/lagos-to-begin-embedded-power-project-in-july-2018/

yippy...gud for me...gud for lagosian...gud for 9ja as a whole!!!!

CodeTemplar:
If you argue that pricing is set by NERC, why is the rate different for various regions then? Why do Northerners pay more for electricity than the south? The cost of generation varies Mr man. If u know sh.it about power systems you will know that even in a single power station there are plant with varying efficiency. Use your brain pro actively and stop sampling irrelevant data as argument.
You can't expect a 50MW gas plant to generate power with same cost as another 200mw plant with CCGT. Just read and understand CCGT and 90% of your ignorance should be gone.

Still obsessed with CCGT. AES is a 270MW single cycle power station in Lagos. Just because a plant is bigger than 100MW doesn't mean it's CCGT.

Yes Northerners might pay more because transmission and distribution costs have been added, but we are talking about Lagos State and the tariff is same all over the state.

So explain how a bigger plant means cheaper price for the consumer. You can use AES as your station. Its 270MW.

Geregu is 414 MW single cycle plant while Papalanto is 335CCGT plant. Which is better? Remember your earlier statement about larger plants being cheaper for consumers.

AZeD1:

Still obsessed with CCGT. AES is a 270MW single cycle power station in Lagos. Just because a plant is bigger than 100MW doesn't mean it's CCGT.

Yes Northerners might pay more because transmission and distribution costs have been added, but we are talking about Lagos State and the tariff is same all over the state.

So explain how a bigger plant means cheaper price for the consumer. You can use AES as your station. Its 270MW.

Geregu is 414 MW single cycle plant wjhile Papalanto is 335CCGT plant. Which is better? Remember your earlier statement about larger plants being cheaper for consumers.

Just study the damn CCGT and stop saying ignorant stuff. CCGT is only possible when there is enough heat given off so the plants need to be considerably bigger to support CCGT. Study it properly and stop arguing blindly.

CodeTemplar:
Just study the damn CCGT and stop saying ignorant stuff. CCGT is only possible when there is enough heat given off so the plants need to be considerably bigger to support CCGT. Study it properly and stop arguing blindly.

You should study CCGT and know what it is. I have given you two examples of power plants that are greater than 100MW and they are single cycle turbines.

So back to the original point, please explain to "illiterates" how a bigger power plant translates to cheaper power. I have given you 3 power plants you can use as an example. If you know what you are talking about, that shouldn't be hard to do?

AZeD1:

You should study CCGT and know what it is. I have given you two examples of power plants that are greater than 100MW and they are single cycle turbines.

So back to the original point, please explain to "illiterates" how a bigger power plant translates to cheaper power. I have given you 3 power plants you can use as an example. If you know what you are talking about, that shouldn't be hard to do?

A bigger plant can be adapted for CCGT. read it up and stop arguing blindly. CCGT mostly involves integration of steam turbines to be driven by enormous heat given off by gas plant. how will the steam run if enough heat isn't given off? Think and research a little b4 replying.

CodeTemplar:
A bigger plant can be adapted for CCGT. read it up and stop arguing blindly. CCGT mostly involves integration of steam turbines to be driven by enormous heat given off by gas plant. how will the steam run if enough heat isn't given off? Think and research a little b4 replying.

Same way a smaller plant can be made bigger.

You've still not answered the question how a bigger plant translates to cheaper prices for the consumer. I like to believe I have been nice to give you a 335CCGT plant and a 414 SCT plant to help in your explanation.

There are non technical peeps reading this thread and a sound explanation would help.

AZeD1:

Same way a smaller plant can be made bigger.

You've still not answered the question how a bigger plant translates to cheaper prices for the consumer. I like to believe I have been nice to give you a 335CCGT plant and a 414 SCT plant to help in your explanation.

There are non technical peeps reading this thread and a sound explanation would help.

Stop googling stuff beyond your brain and tell me. how a smaller plant can be made bigger.

CodeTemplar:
Stop googling stuff beyond your brain and tell me. how a smaller plant can be made bigger.

Are you freaking serious?
By adding more turbines? Egbin is currently 1320MW, there are plans to increase it to 2000MW.

You do realise CCGT means Combined Cycle Gas Turbine and when you are building a power plant, you can decide to go with either a combined cycle or single cycle right?


Anyway stop distracting from the main point, this thread is 4 pages long and you still haven't explained
""Solution will be to build a large scaled power plant with good scale of economy to drive down price of the power that will be eventually sold to industries""

Please explain to the readers how a Single Cycle 414MW plant would deliver cheaper power than a 335MW CCGT plant.

If you are so sure of what you have been saying, explaining it should be hard? You've told us about the technology, now its time to talk economics.

How far with this project ?
Ambode ? ? Sanwo-Olu ? ?

Sibrah:
How far with this project ?

Ambode ? ? Sanwo-Olu ? ?

Theres on article on it on business day bit it's behind a paywall.

NERC set to approve of 94mw embedded power plant for Lagos