There are differences in the number of books by atleast 17 books,


22:18 I testify to the one who hears the words of the prophecy contained in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
22:19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.


so if we go by the book of revelations, does that mean one of them will be taken away from the share of the tree of life (in otherwords - hell)[b][/b][/color][color=#990000]

What kind of senseless thread is this? can u please, compose yourself a bit better? Cause, i honestly don't know what u are talking about

@topic,

Me, I really don't know why the Catholics use the  apocrypha along with the Bible. At least, informed people know that those 14 books are not regarded as the "Bible", but they stand alone as the "apocrypha."

Now, in fair exchange, can you tell me why every Muslim today uses the Qur'an whose TORAH and INJIL are LOST?? It is not now a question of addition or subtraction; but rather of entire books that cannot be found!! They just simply disappeared, and the same Muslims who make that claim have not been able to tell us WHEN and HOW exactly this great loss happened! Boy, that simply leaves me dazed beyond words!

As for the Muslims who read the Torah and Injil of the Bible, you're free to do so. But a note of caution: since the Torah and Injil of the Qur'an are confirmed lost by your clever apologists, don't go cheating around by trying to find Muhammad in Deuteronomy 18 or John 14 & 16. Any rascally development in this regard will be taken care of promptly!

Signed,
Gwaine! 

@Gwaine


Me, I really don't know why the Catholics use the  apocrypha along with the Bible. At least, informed people know that those 14 books are not regarded as the "Bible", but they stand alone as the "apocrypha."

Where did the apocrypha come from?



Now, in fair exchange, can you tell me why every Muslim today uses the Qur'an whose TORAH and INJIL are LOST?? It is not now a question of addition or subtraction; but rather of entire books that cannot be found!! They just simply disappeared, and the same Muslims who make that claim have not been able to tell us WHEN and HOW exactly this great loss happened! Boy, that simply leaves me dazed beyond words!


Stil the same question, are you saying the Gospel in existence is the same as the one given to Jesus?



As for the Muslims who read the Torah and Injil of the Bible, you're free to do so. But a note of caution: since the Torah and Injil of the Qur'an are confirmed lost by your clever apologists, don't go cheating around by trying to find Muhammad in Deuteronomy 18 or John 14 & 16. Any rascally development in this regard will be taken care of promptly!

Going round in circles and making no sense. Please is the Gospel today the same as the one given to Jesus?

@babs787,

babs787:

Where did the apocrypha come from?

Oh, they must have fallen from the sky like the Qur'an, no??

Rather than pretend, the simple thing to do would have been to seek out articles on them, and read them up.

babs787:

Now, in fair exchange, can you tell me why every Muslim today uses the Qur'an whose TORAH and INJIL are LOST?? It is not now a question of addition or subtraction; but rather of entire books that cannot be found!! They just simply disappeared, and the same Muslims who make that claim have not been able to tell us WHEN and HOW exactly this great loss happened! Boy, that simply leaves me dazed beyond words!

Stil the same question, are you saying the Gospel in existence is the same as the one given to Jesus?

The question is clear: WHEN and HOW exactly did this great loss of the TORAH and INJIL occur??

Your question answers itself, no? Because it would be entirely unnecessary for anyone to ask questions like that if they already assumed what you're asking in pretence. You said the Toraha and Injil of the Qur'an are lost. Fine. My question: WHEN and HOW exactly did it happen?

babs787:

Going round in circles and making no sense. Please is the Gospel today the same as the one given to Jesus?

It may make no sense to you; but here it is again: WHERE are the Torah and the Injil of the Qur'an?

@Gwaine






Oh, they must have fallen from the sky like the Qur'an, no??

Rather than pretend, the simple thing to do would have been to seek out articles on them, and read them up.


Am not pretending, am asking you a question and you must answer it.





The question is clear: WHEN and HOW exactly did this great loss of the TORAH and INJIL occur??


I have provided response to you in one of the threads, you only need to read and stop this your deceit. It is not helping you. Are you saying the books of Esther, Joshua, Ecclesiates etc are part of the Torah and the letters to romans, corinthians etc part of the revelation to Jesus? Oya escapist answer



Your question answers itself, no? Because it would be entirely unnecessary for anyone to ask questions like that if they already assumed what you're asking in pretence. You said the Toraha and Injil of the Qur'an are lost. Fine. My question: WHEN and HOW exactly did it happen?

Sure the original message is lost and if you still care to read, entertain yourself:

Four gospels composed by men were chosen by Athanasius, a fourth century bishop to replace the lost gospel of jesus Christ (The New Encyclopedia Britannica, vol. 14, page 814)

Also in the mid-4th century manuscript called Codex Sinaiticus, the Letter of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas are included as a part of the New Testament (The New Encyclopedia Britannica, vol. 14, page 814)


‘The Five Gospels’ is a 550 page book containing translations of the gospels of Mathew, mark, luke and john. It was the result of a six year study by 24 Christian scholars from a number of Western Universities. They decided to produce a translation of the gospel which would be uncoloured by the translator’s personal faith. It was decided that this translation was to give the reader an honest picture of what Jesus truly aid. They scanned the text for the words of Jesus and collect an index of over 1,500 such sayings. They then tested the validity of each of these sayings one at a time to see whether Jesus truly said each one. Then they produced a fresh translation, colour-coded to show authentic Jesuit sayings and those of an unreliable nature. Their conclusion was:

‘82% of the words ascribed to Jesus in the gospels were not actually spoken by him’

O Culman in his book ‘The New Testament’ (Le Nouvea Testament, 1967) says of this that the evangelists were only the ‘spokesmen of the early Christian community which write down the oral tradition. For of 40 years, the gospel had existed as an almost exclusively oral tradition: the latter only transmitted sayings and isolated narratives. The evangelists strung them together, each in his own way according to his own character and theological preoccupations. They linked up the narrations and sayings handed down by the prevailing tradition. The grouping of jesus’ sayings and likewise the sequence of narratives is made by the use of fairly vague linking phrases such as, ‘after this’, ‘when he had’ etc. in other words, the ‘framework’ of the synoptic gospels is of a purely literary order and is not based on hsitory’.

Father Kannengiesser, a reknowned author says: the gospels ‘are not to be taken literaly’, they are ‘writings suited to an occasion’ or ‘combat writings’. Their authors ‘are writing down the traditions of their own community concerning Jesus’.

The gospels are texts which ‘are suitable for various circles, meet the needs of the church, explain observations on on the scriptures, correct errors and even, on occasion, answer adversaries’ objections. Thus, the evangelists, each according to his own outlook, have collected and recorded in writing the material given to them by the oral tradition; (Ecumenical Translation of the Bible)



It may make no sense to you; but here it is again: WHERE are the Torah and the Injil of the Qur'an?

You can imagine this boy asking the same quetion over and over again. Am asking you again, what do the Torah and the Injil contain?

babs787:

Four gospels composed by men were chosen by Athanasius, a fourth century bishop to replace the lost gospel of jesus Christ (The New Encyclopedia Britannica, vol. 14, page 814)

Again, there are a few questions that arise from your often repeated response above:

#1. How many were the lost Gospels?

#2. Who were the writers of the lost Gospels?

#3. When were those lost Gospels written?

#4. What did the lost Gospels say or teach?

#5. How did they agree or disagree with the Gospels of the NT?

#6. How did they agree or disagree with the Qur'an?

#7. Who had read those lost Gospels before they disappeared without a single trace?

#8. What did the lost Gospels teach about Muhammad and Islam?

#9. What does the Qur'an say about the lost Gospels?

#10. Which Gospels were used by Muhammad before they got lost?

#11. How long was it before and/or after the 'loss' that the extant Gospels of the NT appeared?

#12. Who discovered that those 'gospels' were lost and how was that conclusion reached?

#13. when was this idea of the lost Gospels popularized in Islam, and who are those behind that idea?

#14. Why were the following prophets not mentioned in the Qur'an by name:

                                - ISAIAH

                                - EZEKIEL

                                - ZECHARIAH

                                - DANIEL

                                - JEREMIAH

                                - MICAH?


Finding answers to all these questions (without your usual skits of dodging them) will help you come to terms with how baseless are your claims and assertions. Recycling materials that have gapping holes in them hasn't helped your efforts at all.