You said, "Now because Aaron and his family were also Levites, they too would have been expected to tithe. Aint that right?"

No, that ain't right. The Levitical priests did NOT receive the tithe. The rest of the Levites received the tithe, and they gave a tenth of the tenth to the Levitical priests. The Levitical priests did NOT tithe.

You are VERY confused.

Nehemiah 10:37-38 (KJV)
37And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage.
38And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

The firstfruits went to the Temple for the [Levitical] priests. The tithe was taken to the Levites in all their cities. The [Levitical] priests were WITH the Levites when the Levites (not the priests) took the tithes. Then the Levites took a tenth of the tithe to the [Levitical] priests. NO WHERE DOES IT SHOW THE PRIESTS TITHING.

The Levites were the ushers, singers, musicians, janitors, etc. - the servants of the priests.

Are you aware that the priests and Levites only worked at the Temple about two weeks per year, on a rotational basis? NOT FULL TIME. The priests and Levites were divided into 24 "courses". See First Chronicles 24 for the priests and chapters 25 and 26 for the Levites.

garyarnold:


You said, "Now because Aaron and his family were also Levites, they too would have been expected to tithe. Aint that right?"

No, that ain't right.  

The Levitical priests did NOT receive the tithe.  

The rest of the Levites received the tithe, and they gave a tenth of the tenth to the Levitical priests.  The Levitical priests did NOT tithe.

You are VERY confused.

@garyarnold

Where does it categorically say Aaron and his sons were exempted then.

Confused? You wish . . .

Levites and priests tithed from their share

Don't be too quick on the draw.

By the way remember that on the issue discussed I sit somewhere in the middle,

not to be misinterpreted with sitting on the fence.

My cards shielded & guarded closely to my chest . . .

Quick-answer-in-two-seconds questions for you though, here they are

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

Sorry, on a serious note, here are the questions

Which came first, tithing or the Levitical priesthood?

Is there likely a shift concerning the paradigm or principle of tithing?

- You think its all about measly 10% eh. Cha!

Do you still need a schoolmaster? Remember you're off age; grown now

e36991 - Will answer your questions:

You asked, "Which came first, tithing or the Levitical priesthood?"

Numbers 18 instigated both the Levitical priesthood and The Lord's Tithe.

Abraham did not pay The Lord's Tithe, so that giving of a tenth is not comparable to The Lord's Tithe. God said His tithe was on crops and animals, NOT war spoils.

You asked, "Where does it categorically say Aaron and his sons were exempted then.
Confused? You wish . . . Levites and priests tithed from their share"

Since the Israelite farms took the tithe to the Levites, and the Levites gave a tenth of the tithe to the priests, and nowhere does it say the priests tithed, to say that the Levites and the priests were the same is to say the Levites gave a tenth of the tenth to themselves. Come on now. Let's use some common sense.

I will say again, the priests did not tithe. The priests gave a PORTION, not a tithe, to The Lord as a heave offering. Yes, YOU are confused.

You asked, "Is there likely a shift concerning the paradigm or principle of tithing?"

Church leaders have invented a new principle of tithing - that of giving back to God a tenth of what you earn. That was NOT what God commanded.

You said, "You think its all about measly 10% eh. Cha!"

In the New Testament, it is all about 100% of ourselves. Being Spirit Led, I, myself, find myself giving FAR MORE than a measly 10%. I believe that God is more concerned with how much I keep for myself. He wants me to use the blessings He has bestowed upon me to bless others.

@garyarnold, e36991 is just being mischievous, he has nothing to contribute here.

e36991:

My cards shielded & guarded closely to my chest . . .

If you are interested, I can help nail it to your chest permanently. I can do that for you at no cost. To make sure nobody ever get to see them.

^^^

I think e36991 is trying to get garyarnold to "explain totally" so there can be no doubt as to the scriptural position. His antecedents here show him as having too much knowledge to deliberately raise these "lemons" one after the other just so garyarnold can "cancel" them. As he said, he's keeping his cards close to his chest. Probably a joke.

BTW, did anyone notice the tithe noise-maker has nothing of value from scripture to contribute. Just asinine insults that only show the vapidness and shallowness of his mind and knowledge.

all in all, very interesting discourse with issues faced squarely.

This is a very sensitive issue so lets not blaspheme!
Those of us that call ourselves Christians should be careful of what we say or post on Nairaland so that we don't mislead others. I don't no what to say again than to advice that we leave judgment for God.

@Tudor
why are you rude to daddy G.O (Adeboye)?
Its not right for as much as i Kno.

@OGAJIM

Check back your earlier post you'll see that you've not really put yourself in order, You're actually on the fence cos the last time I heard from you, you said you pay tithe but not as tax, If you don't know, if you say you pay tithe and it's not 10% of your income then better not call it tithe, rather call it free offering.
Make use of your Dictionary.

You should try and take a stand on this issue and stop acting Mr. Right and stop making mockery of yourself cos definitely it's not me you're talking to. I refuse to be like you.

@ KUNLE

I like your stand on this and I'm willing to consider your last post addressed to me, not that I'm yielding to you.

But Consider this too,

I want you to observe this verse of the scripture perhaps you will have a change of mind on tithing.

Luke 11 : 42. King James Version says,

11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! For ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

While the NIV version says,

11:42 Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.

Matthew 23:23 says the same thing.

Meaning he recognized that it was a law that was given to the prophet of old and that the people were still practicing it, and that he was in support of the law. I don’t know from what the bible says if Jesus from his response was condemning tithing or ever told them that it’s wrong to pay tithe. You’ll have to tell me that. I guess this verse is self explanatory. At least you know the meaning of ‘a tenth’, and also understand the clause “You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.”

I really don’t have to say a word again on this issue, do what ever you think is right but I stand to remind you Guys “TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED AND DO MY PROOPHET NO HARM” that I mean what your tongue when you talk about any MOG.

Thanks for your time. BYE.

OGAJIM, LOGGING OUT OF THIS DISCUSSION DOESN'T MAKE ME A SHRINK, not that.

nuclearboy
You need a mirror ASAP.

@D-Optimist:

Apologies but the truth is that Jesus lived under the Old dispensation (under the law). It was when He said "It Is Finished" on the Cross that His NEW dispensation started. That was when the Mosiac law (under which He Himself lived since He came to fulfill it and never sinned) ended.

In effect, when He said what you have written above, the "NEW TESTAMENT" had not begun.

Think about that, brother. And remember, its not giving that Kunle is complaining of - it is the misuse of scripture to coerce people to give that he's against.

If people were allowed to make the decision themselves with all the facts laid out in front of them and they decide to set aside 1/10 of their resources for their local church, nobody will complain. Giving is good

@nuclearboy
Thanx for assisting in answering that query.

@D-Optimist
In addition to what nuclearboy stated above, kindly note the Jesus was addressing pharisees who were under the law in that passage and not christians who are under grace. That aside also note the what was being tithed was mint and cumin(agricultural produce) and not money that mordern preachers have twisted it to be, I am sure you know it is a grievious sin to twist the word of God.

What are the 'facts'? Are we no more christians because we do not believe in tithes? Why are tithephobics so dishonest, rude and false accusing?
The other one says 'you show a lack of knowledge on this topic'. I guess, to you knowledge is disagreement to tithe OR some quotes from the bible, that seems to support your talk.
How do I start with you, your problems/errors are so many. Firstly, I'll say it's sheer ignorance OR worse still devil's doctrine to claim that a part of scriptures is not profitable for believers, using whatever base.
You've said the whole Malachi is addressed to the priests(or probably you meant to say the levites). How true is this assertion?
Malachi 1v1 The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi.
I believe the address is clear, the author is clear, the vessel/messenger is clear. I do pray you learn. Many tithephobics will never respond to issues, just skip to some other thread or forum to repeat their 'knowledge'. Hope you're peculiar?

^^ The following are the facts -whatever you want to make God's Word out to "mean", the fact is that Malachi from Chapter 1 verse 6 was a statement directed at specific people - the Priests! They pervert justice, they make people to err, only they could bring food into the Storehouse.

Another way to say this is - Could a member of the tribe of Dan or Judah offer anything in the Temple? Was it not only the Priests (not even the other levites could offer) that could bring these things? When it says "Bring ye all", could God be telling a member of the tribe of Benjamin to enter the Temple? If God could, please show us how? If not, he spoke only to the Priests, no?

Have you ever actually tried to read the Bible or are you just supporting simply because someone you respect so much (your "mentor" or "spiritual father" when Jesus Himself said none of His should be called father, rabbi, teacher etc) said so and you've decided to stand against truth in favor of that respect you have for him?

Secondly garyarnold
You said "everytime the word 'you' is used, it is referring to priests". Well, Malachi 1v2 says to Israel(not just priests), I have loved YOU. Come quickly to Malachi 3, I love the chapter. Verse 1 is the promise of John the baptist. This promise isn't/wasn't just to priests. The Jews take the whole OT as addressed to them all, not to some sect. Verse 5 addresses not just priests, but also sorcerers, adulterers and so on.
Malachi 3v6 is clear, I'm suprised you missed it. "for I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed". Not just the priests, but the children of Jacob i.e the Israelites.
Verse 9 ye have robbed me, even what?
Hope I don't need to say more on this. Blessed are the meek, not blessed are the ones with a point and the last say.

Image123:

What are the 'facts'? Are we no more christians because we do not believe in tithes? Why are tithephobics so dishonest, rude and false accusing?
The other one says 'you show a lack of knowledge on this topic'. I guess, to you knowledge is disagreement to tithe OR some quotes from the bible, that seems to support your talk.
How do I start with you, your problems/errors are so many. Firstly, I'll say it's sheer ignorance OR worse still devil's doctrine to claim that a part of scriptures is not profitable for believers, using whatever base.
You've said the whole Malachi is addressed to the priests(or probably you meant to say the levites). How true is this assertion?
Malachi 1v1 The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi.
I believe the address is clear, the author is clear, the vessel/messenger is clear. I do pray you learn. Many tithephobics will never respond to issues, just skip to some other thread or forum to repeat their 'knowledge'. Hope you're peculiar?

Your post as always does not make sense. If you have been asking questions, you would definitely have gotten answers and there would have been no need for the post above. Like i said before, you would rather adopt the approach of making accusations instead trying to understand the position of the other person. You guys do it a lot, maybe its because you know are living a lie.

"Sons of Jacob"! Which in Israel was not a son of Jacob?

But WHICH could bring offerings INTO the Temple? BECAUSE it is that person that could bring that God spoke to saying "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse"

And does your "last say" not apply to you?  

@ KUNLE and NUCLEARBOY

I quite get you guys, but first you should understand what is meant by a tenth, how can you quantify a tenth in agricultural produce, Also the former church I use to attend normally got agricultural produce but the question is were they worshipers able to quantify their tithe with that.

I also want to believe that 'they' (people of the old) offered mint and cum as tithe because that was the major activity by then. Think about it,isn't it more durable and easy to quantify this items into what you can go with.

Please can you put more light on the issue of "it is finish" that JESUS made while on the cross, does it mean that all that he did while on earth was finished at the cross, preaching inclusive? I think he meant not from all he did on earth but that which his Father sent him. He came to deliver man from destruction by giving his life as a second chance to man, that as many that receive him only might have life.

when ye say that we are in the era of grace, does it mean that we are no longer to obey some of the commandment Moses gave cos even Jesus didn't come to condemn the law. If so let's start killing and get involve in other evil because we are in the era of grace.

^
Oh its from Malachi 1v6 now. I love God's Word. You must be right. Hope you've got that mirror nuclearboy. You do need it, the monitor's screen will not suffice.

D-optimist:

how can you quantify a tenth in agricultural produce,

You know this is not a problem except you are not just ready to try. I am sure there is a standard of measurement for every item you purchase in the market. abi i lie?

D-optimist:

I also want to believe that 'they' (people of the old) offered mint and come as tithe because that was the major activity by then. Think about it,isn't it more durable and easy to quantify this items into what you can go with.

You had cash in use at the time. There was specific instruction for buy-back at the time, in which case, your tithe is no longer a tenth (10%), but 12.5%. I hope now you use cash you render 12.5%.

Thirdly gary
You said 'the Levite's tithe went to the storehouse, not the whole tithe'. Your common sense told you that, not God's Word. God's Word addressing 'this whole nation' says "Bring ye ALL the tithes into the storehouse.
A classic example of this is seen in Nehemiah 13v12- Then brought ALL JUDAH the tithe of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries.
Seems this had more grace not to walk in the letter but in the Spirit, compared to many me antagonists.

There're countless other issues to discuss, but I'll wait a little and see the result of the above. I'm not in support of casting pearls before swine. I hope we have the same mind on this.

@ Zikkyy

Please so that I may not be wrong in my post cos I've really not gone through your post earlier, are you 'for' or 'against' this topic or on the fence.

Thanks.

@D-Optimist:

When God gave the law to Moses, a dispensation in which the Israelites were under the "LAW" as a nation began. When Jesus came, not only did He make Israelites (in the Spirit) of all who believe in Him, His death also brought about a better covenant based on Grace, not on the Law.

When He spoke and said "It Is Finished", we read that the Temple veil was torn from top to bottom. At that time, the "LAW" passed away and GRACE came into effect.

BUT UNTIL THAT MOMENT, it was the "LAW" that was still in effect - which means when Jesus spoke to the Pharisees, He was speaking under the LAW which said "pay your tithes".

Brother, please do not stop giving. But give it as "I have decided to give 1/10 of my earnings to church" not "I OWE MY TITHE". Do you get the difference? And remember the poor, widow, stranger, fatherless also. Jesus said whoever gives to them gives to Him

@ Nuclearboy

I guess I understand you now, 'Pay your tithe and not as if you own anyone'.

Question:
Should we pay the 1/10 always when we get our 'SALARY' or any time you feel like? I mean you can pay this month and let go next month, if you are on salary.

From what you are saying bro, its like this issue of grace as no rules, it allows you do things as it pleases you. Shooo,

D-optimist:


Should we pay the 1/10 always when we get our 'SALARY' or any time you feel like? I mean you can pay this month and let go next month, if you are on salary.

From what you are saying bro, its like this issue of grace as no rules, it allows you do things as it pleases you. Shooo,

As nuclearboy stated earlier christian giving should be as you purpose in your heart, there are no rules about it. It is up to you to decide if, when and how much to give.

D-optimist:

@ Zikkyy

Please so that I may not be wrong in my post cos I've really not gone through your post earlier, are you 'for' or 'against' this topic or on the fence.

Thanks.

What topic? To answer your question, i also need to be sure you understand the topic being dicussed here.

No, i dont sit on the fence.

@ Zikkyy

Apologies, I meant the contention between Tithing and otherwise. So you are against tithing as a percentage,

Well do what you think is right bro,

D-optimist:

@ KUNLE and NUCLEARBOY

I also want to believe that 'they' (people of the old) offered mint and come as tithe because that was the major activity by then. Think about it,isn't it more durable and easy to quantify this items into what you can go with.

Do we really need to address this all over again? Are you asserting that in NT there was no currency of exchange except mint and cumin? How about this?

Mark 12:15  Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.

Since there existed money then, why were the Pharisees (those great sticklers for everything pertaining to the Law) tithing their garden herbs? Why didn't they just tithe denarii or shekels as the case may be?

Since the Pharisees did not tithe money but agricultural produce as required by the Law, why are you "tithing"
money (not commanded in the Law) instead of agricultural produce.

Moreover you seem to miss the import of these verses:

Matthew 23:23  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The Pharisees were good at following the letter of the Law and thus justifying themselves and exulting in their self-righteousness. They had all sort of strictures and commandents which they added to the Law. Witness the following:
Mark 7:9-13  And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.  (10)  For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:  (11)  But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.  (12)  And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;  (13)  Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Mark 3:2-6  And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.  (3)  And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.  (4)  And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.  (5)  And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.  (6)  And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.


Why did the LORD require the children of Israel to tithe?
To provide for the Levites who had no inheritance among their brothers, and also for the poor and needy in the land.
Numbers 18:24  But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

Deuteronomy 14:28-29  At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:  (29)  And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.


Thus you see that the Law required Israel to show justice and mercy but the Pharisees while sticking to the letter of the Law, neglected to do so, which is why as you see in Mark 3, they were angry with Jesus for healing a man (someone made in the image of God!) on the sabbath. Why was it so difficult for them to see that making a man whole on the sabbath fulfilled God's commandment?

Exodus 20:8-10  Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.  (9)  Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:  (10)  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Because their hearts were hardened. They were fixated on the part about doing no work while neglecting the part about keeping it holy. Likewise they were fixated about tithing on mint and cumin while leaving out mercy, judgment, faith.

And that is still very much present with the modern tithing teachers Pharisees as seen on this thread.

A friend of mine came to me for an advice that his friend is in the hospital seriously ill and begged him to assist him with some money so that an operation would be carried out on him.He came to me and said the only money with him at home is his tithe that i should advice him on what to do.i told him to give the money to the person in the hospital,he now gave me a shocker that he was also in his pastor"s place too,that his pastor  told him to pay his tithe that God will take care of the man in the hospital. I began to wonder what kind of pastors do we have?

@ Mr. Aletheia

What do you think you've succeeded doing? Blasting me? Wrong. Don't quote me wrong, I never said that the was no currency in the time of Old. I only said that it might be farming was the major occupation by then. Learn to quote people correctly. Thank you sir.

D-optimist:

So you are against tithing as a percentage,

Na wa for you you just could not wait for my response to your question. you answered the question yourself. It will be difficult for us to communicate this way.

Oga D-optimist, i am not against tithing as a percentage.

D-optimist:

@ Mr. Aletheia

What do you think you've succeeded doing? Blasting me? Wrong. Don't quote me wrong, I never said that the was no currency in the time of Old. I only said that it might be farming was the major occupation by then. Learn to quote people correctly. Thank you sir.

Get off your ego trip. It's not about you but rather what the word of God says. Is this all you got from my post? Farming was just one of the occupations then:
Jesus was a carpenter
Peter, James and John were fishermen
Matthew was a tax collector
Luke was a physician
Paul was a tent maker
etc.

And any way your supposed argument that they tithed agricultural produce because farming was the major activity is demolished by the scriptures:
Leviticus 27:30, 32  And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.  (32)  And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Deuteronomy 14:22-26  Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.  (23)  And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.  (24)  And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:  (25)  Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:  (26)  And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

Why didn't God say they could tithe the money then?