Maamin:
OK! Let's agree on that then.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

I just want us all not to contradict the scripture.

Perfectbeing:
I believe in the Trinity. Not Trinity as 3 Gods.
But trinity as one God.
The invisible God.
God as a man. (Jesus)
The spirit of God. (The Holy Spirit)

I don't see those 3 as three Gods.
I see them as one God.

MuttleyLaff:
If there is a "right hand of the throne"
there equally must be a "left, bad or wrong hand side of the throne".
It's similar to the expression of wanting to be on someone's good side

Perfectbeing:


I know that God resides somewhere above his creation. I also know that God resides in Believers.
Jesus said in John 17:23; I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved

Maamin:


Hmmmmm

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.

8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,

10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

That is the whole of Revelation 4
Where did it mentioned that it was Jesus apart from your own opinion here?

The next chapter will help you understand who was sitting anyways! Good luck!

MuttleyLaff:
If there is a "right hand of the throne"
there equally must be a "left, bad or wrong hand side of the throne".
It's similar to the expression of wanting to be on someone's good side

Why parked at trinity.
The Bible doesn't pigeonhole God into trinity.

We know and experience God, as God the Father, and Son of God. The demonstration of the God's power
is also known or experienced through the use of the Holy Spirit but that doesn't mean God is restricted or limited to those three persons

Perfectbeing:
They are not three persons but one.
That's what I'm trying to say.

Perfectbeing:
The thing is that, the Bible didn't use the name God to refer to Jesus and Holy Spirit. So people drew conclusions that since this is so, then Jesus is different from God and the Holy Spirit is not God. Trying to let people see this Jesus, and this Holy Spirit as one and the same with God is what I'm doing.
Probably I'm not supposed to use the word "Trinity" but maybe the reason is that I am Limited by English.
I don't know if you get...

Perfectbeing:
No

MuttleyLaff:
C'mon now Perfectbeing, stop pulling my leg....
Of course, you know.
Dont be shy, going on, go ahead, just say it

MuttleyLaff:
God manisfested in three Persons is seen all over the bible,
but God is not limited or restricted to three Persons.

Limited by English, isnt a good enough reason
Do your best to win full approval in God's sight, as a worker who is not ashamed of his work, one who correctly teaches the message of God's truth.

What has been going on so far, is challenging a doctrine thats trying to make and/or have trinity be a be-all and end-all of God's existence.

Thrice in bible history, was God asked what His name is
On three separate occassions, God was asked of His name
Three different people in the course of bible narrative, asked God what His name is.
God never said what it is instead asking the reason why each wanted to know what His name is
The second person that asked was told, by God that His name is impossible to understand or comprehend
Do you know what the answer was, that God gave the third and last person that asked a similar question?

MuttleyLaff:
God manisfested in three Persons is seen all over the bible,
but God is not limited or restricted to three Persons.

Limited by English, isnt a good enough reason
Do your best to win full approval in God's sight, as a worker who is not ashamed of his work, one who correctly teaches the message of God's truth.

What has been going on so far, is challenging a doctrine thats trying to make and/or have trinity be a be-all and end-all of God's existence.

Thrice in bible history, was God asked what His name is
On three separate occassions, God was asked of His name
Three different people in the course of bible narrative, asked God what His name is.
God never said what it is instead asking the reason why each wanted to know what His name is
The second person that asked was told, by God that His name is impossible to understand or comprehend
Do you know what the answer was, that God gave the third and last person that asked a similar question?

Perfectbeing:
"I am that I am"?

Perfectbeing:
Sorry bro. it looks like I'm trolling but I'm not.

Jesus admonishes us to make disciples, baptizing them in name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Not Father, Son, Holy Spirit and my other limitless manifestations..
My point exactly is that any other of God's manifestations is included in this "Father, Son and Holy Spirit"

MuttleyLaff:
I honestly do feel like giving you a bear hug italö.
I just love your forthright honesty and admire your unashamed naivety

Where is or which verse, did you find this Trinitarian formula from?
and are you sure of the authenticity of this verse compared with the original text?

Did John the Baptist perform this your "invocation of the Holy Trinity" version for Jesus too?

Now, here is me answering any questions you have for me ...including and starting with the bold...

italö:
Matt28:19

MuttleyLaff:
Ouch! No!!
Tell me you didnt go for Matt 28:19
I knew you'll rise to that bait and go for Matt 28:19
but prayed and hope you would have the sense not to

italö:
We are following what Jesus and his apostles/Church taught and practised...including translations...

MuttleyLaff:
Whatever, is written, in the Bible, is not wrong.
I cant vouch, same, for the translations though.
An example, is your favourite "Matthew 28:19"
where insertions or additions to the original text were made, to end up with what we presently have as "Matthew 28:19"

MuttleyLaff:
I knew you were pulling my leg and know

Yes, Moses asked two questions, by saying:
“Suppose I go to the Israelites
and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’
and they ask me, ‘What is His name?’ What should I tell them?”

God, here after, just like previous two other occasions ignored/declined saying what His name is
however He answers the second part of Moses' question
He told Moses, to say to the Israelites, that "I Am that I Am" sent him to them about liberating them from the Egyptian superpower of that time

Now the most interesting thing about "I Am that I Am" is that "I Am that I Am" is not a name.
It isnt even God's name
"I Am that I Am" is an expressive phrase,
simply addressing the second question in a telling and revealing way, whilst the first question is and was ignored

If God expresses Himself as "I Am that I Am", in order words "I will be what I will be", why limit Him to trinity?

Perfectbeing, trust me when and if I say, you arent trolling

---

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The above quotes, were exchanges posted 3 years ago, about Matthew 28:19

I reproduced them here because the exchanges are closely connected
and similar to the " Father, Son, Holy Spirit " Trinitarian formula, you in a relaxed manner, mentioned in your comment

Maybe you dont know, maybe you arent aware, maybe you havent found out
that what we have, as bible translations, even on to today, based on the politics, based on the agenda, based on the prevailing ignorance,
based on denominational doctrine, based on the holding to the tradition of men, based on the dogma, of the day,
have and have had numerous insertions, additions and inventions to the original text made to it.

Perfectbeing, Matthew 28:19, that you paraphrased in your comment, sadly is one of such and so is a victim of deliberate bible manipulation
It is glaring that someone so desperate to preach trinity as a doctrine, went to the great length of adding to Matthew 28:19 what was not, in the first instance, originally there

Maybe the perpetrator(s) isnt familiar with Proverbs 30:6, that says:
"Do not add to his words, or He will reprimand you, and you will be found to be a liar."

MuttleyLaff:
God manisfested in three Persons is seen all over the bible,
but God is not limited or restricted to three Persons.

Limited by English, isnt a good enough reason
Do your best to win full approval in God's sight, as a worker who is not ashamed of his work, one who correctly teaches the message of God's truth.

What has been going on so far, is challenging a doctrine thats trying to make and/or have trinity be a be-all and end-all of God's existence.

Thrice in bible history, was God asked what His name is
On three separate occassions, God was asked of His name
Three different people in the course of bible narrative, asked God what His name is.
God never said what it is instead asking the reason why each wanted to know what His name is
The second person that asked was told, by God that His name is impossible to understand or comprehend
Do you know what the answer was, that God gave the third and last person that asked a similar question?

MuttleyLaff:
God manisfested in three Persons is seen all over the bible,
but God is not limited or restricted to three Persons.

Limited by English, isnt a good enough reason
Do your best to win full approval in God's sight, as a worker who is not ashamed of his work, one who correctly teaches the message of God's truth.

What has been going on so far, is challenging a doctrine thats trying to make and/or have trinity be a be-all and end-all of God's existence.

Thrice in bible history, was God asked what His name is
On three separate occassions, God was asked of His name
Three different people in the course of bible narrative, asked God what His name is.
God never said what it is instead asking the reason why each wanted to know what His name is
The second person that asked was told, by God that His name is impossible to understand or comprehend
Do you know what the answer was, that God gave the third and last person that asked a similar question?

MuttleyLaff:
If that's what you're trying to say, you're preaching to the choir then
because Maamin knows that, I know that, and those that know, know too Perfectbeing

Maamin:


Was there anything made without the ONE whom the WORd proceeds from?

[quote author=Perfectbeing post=69726382]

Rev 5 introduces us to a lamb that was slain (Jesus) who took the book that was sealed with seven seals from He who sat on the throne. He is portrayed to us as "the Lamb in the midst of the throne." in Rev 7:17.

solite3:
you shouldn't ve quoted me if you have no answer to my question.

Perfectbeing:


And I did.
Rev 5:6; Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

The lamb stood at the center of the throne. He and the throne is encircled by the the living creatures and the elders. (KJV puts it that "...in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain" English wise they mean the same thing)

And also,
Didn't the beast joined the rest of the creatures in heaven to worship the lamb and the one sitted on the throne in 5:13?

Perfectbeing:


And I did.
Rev 5:6; Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

The lamb stood at the center of the throne. He and the throne is encircled by the the living creatures and the elders. (KJV puts it that "...in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain" English wise they mean the same thing)

And also,
Didn't the beast joined the rest of the creatures in heaven to worship the lamb and the one sitted on the throne in 5:13?

Maamin:
The one sitted on the throne there is the Father.

Perfectbeing:


According to you, God is powerless to be omnipresent.. In order words he's not omnipotent

Maamin:


The one sitted on the throne there is the Father.

MuttleyLaff:
Do you accept this, and agree to or with this Perfectbeing?

Perfectbeing:
Are we still separating the lamb from the Father?

Perfectbeing:


The one sitted on the throne and the lamb is the same. Both one and the same. Not different from each other. In Acts 7:55–56; Romans 8:34; Ephesians 1:20; Colossians 3:1, Jesus (the lamb that was slain) was said to be SITTED at the right hand of the Father. The phrase, "God’s right hand" as some of us said earlier, is used throughout Scripture to indicate His power and authority and sovereignty. Jesus is sitted at this place of power and of authority and of sovereignty with God. Doesn't that tell us that Jesus and God are both the the same and not different, since God won't share his glory with any one.

That being said, I want to introduce us to the Greek word "kai". Please ride down with me.

"Kai" is a Greek word that is used to connect two words, phrases or clauses together, who function at the same level. With this function it is often called a coordinating conjuntion.

Things to note about the word "kai"

1. When Kai joins words or phrases together, it is simple enough and similar to English word "and".
E.g; James and John, Paul and Silas.

2 When Kai joins clauses and sentences, it is more complicated. Kai can function like an English "then" as in Matt 4:19 (Follow me, then
I will make you fishers of men). The English "and" can function the same way as in 'follow me and I will make you fishers of men.

3. When two plural nouns are connected by "kai" as in Ephesians 4:11, ...and some, pastors and teachers; The first noun, pastors, and the second noun, teachers are the same. So "teachers" is a further description of "pastors", not a separate category of individuals. This Greek construction means "pastors who are teachers", or "pastor - teachers".

4. When two SINGULAR nouns are connected by "kai", and the FIRST noun is ARTICILAR( has the article), and the SECOND is ANARTHROUS (does not have the article), the second noun is a FURTHER DESCRIPTION of the first noun.
Examples
a. Thess. 1:12, the KJV reads "the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ". God "theos" here is articular and Christ "christou" is anarthrous. Both are the same case, and therefore should read "the grace of Jesus Christ, our God and Lord".
b. Titus 2:13, the KJV reads "the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ". God "theos" here is articular, and Christ "christou" is anarthrous. Both nouns are in the same case, and therefore should read "our great God and Savior Jesus Christ".

Maamin:


The one sitted on the throne there is the Father.