Perfectbeing:


why not multiplication? Why any other sign? lol
let's not leave that out.

Exactly my reason to ask you to leave that out...lol!

Why trinity, why not 4, 5, 10, 100, or why not 1 as revealed in the scriptures?

Perfectbeing:


The only point I'm trying to make here is that there is "God"
The invisible God is God.
The Visible God is God.
The Spirit of God is God.
1x1x1=1.

And to your last statement. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. What is the Spirit of God and what is God. Aren't they the same thing.

Now Your last statement is coming true. The Son was begotten, the holy spirit was not begotten.

[quote author=MuttleyLaff post=69700629]

It started when the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary, at that point onwards, God began to form inside Mary's womb to be born as the Son of God

Meaning the Son never existed aside/with the father before the above happened?

I am colour blind, I am denomination atheistic.
I see everyone as a human being period.
I dont ask who you are, what you are or whatnot

I am not of any denomination either, I can fellowship with any bible believing church.

Perfectbeing:


Did you read it?

I asked a question and you are asking me did I read it? Read what?

Perfectbeing:


I actually don't know how else to construct my English o.. What tribe are you? So I can use Google Translator..

What is so complex in my question?

How do you explain the two thrones in revelations that of the Father and that of the Son , according to you they are figurative. You promised earlier to comment on that.?

Perfectbeing:
I actually don't know how else to construct my English o..
What tribe are you? So I can use Google Translator..

Let's keep the thread courteous

Maamin:
What is so complex in my question?

How do you explain the two thrones in revelations that of the Father and that of the Son , according to you they are figurative. You promised earlier to comment on that.?

There is no two thrones Maamin.
It's one God, having the Son projecting out of the Father.
Post the Revelation verse(s) here, let's all examine it together

MuttleyLaff:


God is already everywhere at anytime

"Is it impossible for God to simultaneously and concurrently
be, God the Father in Heaven
and be the Son of God on earth, at any moment of time?"

And my answer was "NO" meaning it is possible.

Maamin:
And my answer was "NO" meaning it is possible.

Oh my apologies then,
For a moment, I thought you were saying, No it is impossible.
Well then, do you go along with:
God was God the Father in Heaven, when at the same time, He was Son of God on earth

OneJ:



"From heaven (Yahweh, Jehovah) looks down and sees all mankind.; From his dwelling place he watches all who live on earth". Ps33:13,14. Ps11:4,5. God's word is truth. Shalom

According to you, God is powerless to be omnipresent.. In order words he's not omnipotent

Maamin:


Exactly my reason to ask you to leave that out...lol!

Why trinity, why not 4, 5, 10, 100, or why not 1 as revealed in the scriptures?

You can do the arithmetic however you like. I like to use 1x1x1=1.

Thank you.

Maamin:


Now Your last statement is coming true. The Son was begotten, the holy spirit was not begotten.

My last statement is in the form of a question. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. What is God? And what is the Spirit of God? Are they two different things or are they then same thing.

Perfectbeing:
My last statement is in the form of a question. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. What is God? And what is the Spirit of God? Are they two different things or are they then same thing.

What is Perfectbeing?
What is the wisdom, understanding, power, advice etcetera of Perfectbeing?
Are those different to Perfectbeing?
The wisdom, understanding, power, counsel are Perfect being, they are part of Perfect being, the same way the spirit of God is part of the Godhead which is God

[quote author=MuttleyLaff post=69709648]

Why No!

1/ OK, so, are you saying, No! because you think and/or believe that, it is something impossible for God to do
that it is beyond God to do something like that?

I said "NO" again... meaning it is possible

Look, don't confuse yourself with the 'NO'. If you had used.."possible" I would have said 'YES'

2/ Maamin, if you need something done, if you need the thing done right
or needed it be done, in a very certain or particular way,
but there is no one, putting themselves forward to help,
but there is no one, offerring themselves &/or their services to help have this something done

If you've looked someone, looked for a man, among human beings,
who would rebuild the hedge (i.e. the wall of righteousness that guards the land),
If You've searched for someone, to stand in the gap or breach in the wall, before You, and on behalf of the land,
so that it won't be destroyed, but You found no one

There is no one to help, time is running out and it is increasingly and strongly becoming necessary for this something to be done,
now Maamin, in the absence of anyone coming forward, in the absence of anyone assisting, in the absence of anyone being up to the task,
if you're quite capable, able and especially, have the ability, means, know how, experience, skills to do this required & much needed something,
Maamin, if you can be the man, the man to deliver, if you can be the person, to get the work done,
would you not do it yourself, would you not go ahead and put yourself forward?
Would it not be best for you, considering the circumstances & situation, to do it yourself?

cc OneJ

And I also have ability to send my emanation more like my reflection/image out to do it since he too can carry out the very tax perfectly like it were me or the very me.

[quote author=Maamin post=69712376][/quote]

The son never started existing. The son has always existed. Rev4:8; Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "Holy, holy, holy
is the Lord God Almighty,’ who was, and is, and is to come.”

Who is referred to "who was, who is and who is to come" isn't it Jesus? And what did the living creatures referred Him to as? "Holy, Holy, is the Lord God almighty" The referred him to as God almighty. (thank God they didn't use mighty God in this place)

Perfectbeing:


You can do the arithmetic however you like. I like to use 1x1x1=1.

Thank you.

Your logic/idea and opinion should remain yours please.

Thank you

Maamin:


I asked a question and you are asking me did I read it? Read what?

I previously explained your question in a previous comment. So I was asking if you've read it

Maamin:
I said "NO" again... meaning it is possible

Look, don't confuse yourself with the 'NO'. If you had used.."possible" I would have said 'YES'

And I also have ability to send my emanation more like my reflection/image out to do it since he too can carry out the very tax perfectly like it were me or the very me. wink

Haven't I already apologised for this misunderstanding?

Well you might be able to emanate but you cant incarnate like God did

Maamin:


What is so complex in my question?

How do you explain the two thrones in revelations that of the Father and that of the Son , according to you they are figurative. You promised earlier to comment on that.?

OK let me show you were the Holy Spirit is.
Revelations 4:5;
From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God. Also in front of the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal.

Right there at the front of the throne is the seven spirits of God (The Holy Spirit). Need more clarity?
Read the whole of Rev 4

MuttleyLaff:
What is Perfectbeing?
What is the wisdom, understanding, power, advice etcetera of Perfectbeing?
Are those different to Perfectbeing?
The wisdom, understanding, power, counsel are Perfect being, they are part of Perfect being, the same way the spirit of God is part of the Godhead which is God

Exactly.. That's what I've been trying to explain to maamin about who the Holy Spirit is. That's why I asked him that question..

MuttleyLaff:
Oh my apologies then,
For a moment, I thought you were saying, No it is impossible.
Well then, do you go along with:
God was God the Father in Heaven, when at the same time, He was Son of God on earth

Who also died on the cross?

Hmmm!

The Son preexisted with the father.. John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

The father sent the Son from his bosom..John 3:16

With what you have up there will be saying the God the father himself was killed on the cross. Correct me if am wrong.

MuttleyLaff:
Haven't I already apologised for this misunderstanding?

Well you might be able to emanate but you cant incarnate like God did

I might have replied before seeing the other one..

Sorry! You can ignore it

MuttleyLaff:
Let's keep the thread courteous

There is no two thrones Maamin.
It's one God, having the Son projecting out of the Father.
Post the Revelation verse(s) here, let's all examine it together

Ok...here

Two thrones were mentioned
That of God and that of the lamb..none for the holy spirit. How do we add this up as well to arrive at this very trinity doctrine

Revelation 7:10
And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

Revelation 21:22
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Revelation 11:15
…“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord [God] and of his Christ [Jesus], and he will reign for ever and ever.”

Revelation 22:1
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Revelation 5:13
…“To him who sits on the throne [God] and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

Those are the verses

Perfectbeing:


According to you, God is powerless to be omnipresent.. In order words he's not omnipotent

I think if I understand him clearly, he is trying to say God resides somewhere above all his creations.

That very place he reside and makes the earth his foot stool.

That place that is unapproachable 1 Tim 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Daniel 2:22 "It is He who reveals the profound and hidden things; He knows what is in the darkness, And the light dwells with Him."

Perfectbeing:


The son never started existing. The son has always existed. Rev4:8; Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "Holy, holy, holy
is the Lord God Almighty,’ who was, and is, and is to come.”

Who is referred to "who was, who is and who is to come" isn't it Jesus? And what did the living creatures referred Him to as? "Holy, Holy, is the Lord God almighty" The referred him to as God almighty. (thank God they didn't use mighty God in this place)

Hmmmmm

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.

8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,

10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

That is the whole of Revelation 4
Where did it mentioned that it was Jesus apart from your own opinion here?

The next chapter will help you understand who was sitting anyways! Good luck!

Maamin:
Ok...here

Two thrones were mentioned
That of God and that of the lamb..none for the holy spirit.
How do we add this up as well to arrive at this very trinity doctrine
Revelation 7:10
And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

Revelation 21:22
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Revelation 11:15
…“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord [God] and of his Christ [Jesus], and he will reign for ever and ever.”

Revelation 22:1
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Revelation 5:13
…“To him who sits on the throne [God] and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

Those are the verses

I thought right, you'll be referring to those verses and similar.

As I earlier pointed out there is no two thrones Maamin.
It's one throne, and its one God, having the Son of God projecting out of same one God, God the Father.

You accept, that God can project Himself however He can, don't you?

Perfectbeing:


I previously explained your question in a previous comment. So I was asking if you've read it

May be I mistakenly skipped it unknowingly. So many mentions.

I try to reply all.

OK, will check!

Perfectbeing:


OK let me show you were the Holy Spirit is.
Revelations 4:5;
From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God. Also in front of the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal.

Right there at the front of the throne is the seven spirits of God (The Holy Spirit). Need more clarity?
Read the whole of Rev 4

Lol! Well done, You try

All I have been about this thread is to make you see the fallacy in trinity doctrine. It is gradually coming through sha!

Perfectbeing:


Exactly.. That's what I've been trying to explain to maamin about who the Holy Spirit is. That's why I asked him that question..

Talking about your physical and internal attribute or better yet the attribute we perceive as decision-making, morality, the ability to love, worship, and emotions etc.

Believe me, I get that.

MuttleyLaff:
I thought right, you'll be referring to those verses and similar.

As I earlier pointed out there is no two thrones Maamin.
It's one throne, and its one God, having the Son of God projecting out of same one God, God the Father.

You accept, that God can project Himself however He can, don't you?

OK! Let's agree on that then.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

I just want us all not to contradict the scripture.

Maamin:

May be I mistakenly skipped it unknowingly. So many mentions.
I try to reply all.
OK, will check!

If you can't find it tell me. I'll repost it

Maamin:


Lol! Well done, You try

All I have been about this thread is to make you see the fallacy in trinity doctrine. It is gradually coming through sha!

I believe in the Trinity. Not Trinity as 3 Gods. But trinity as one God.
The invisible God.
God as a man. (Jesus)
The spirit of God. (The Holy Spirit)

I don't see those 3 as three Gods. I see them as one God.

Maamin:


I think if I understand him clearly, he is trying to say God resides somewhere above all his creations.

That very place he reside and makes the earth his foot stool.

That place that is unapproachable 1 Tim 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Daniel 2:22 "It is He who reveals the profound and hidden things; He knows what is in the darkness, And the light dwells with Him."

I know that God resides somewhere above his creation. I also know that God resides in Believers.
Jesus said in John 17:23; I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved