The Clown:

Can anyone clarify me on this topic please. If yes, then are the commandments irrelevant? If no then why do some christian explain away their untamed sinful nature wielding grace as a weapon, actually presenting Christianity in a bad light?

No offense intended please, some years back in school, I observed to a born (not sure of his denomination) that some male and female members of a certain denomination (name withheld to avoid ill feeling and attack) who outwardly profess to be born again  co-habit, as per couples and he asked me, 'have you ever heard of grace?' I tried to clarify my stand with my own understanding of grace but realised that i was very much having a minority opinion. As an Orthodox Christian believed to have a scanty Bible Knowledge, I kept quiet, knowing though that its either I'm right or Christianity is experiencing a changing phase and my Orthodox Ideas are no more relevant.

I was reading an incidence that occurred between a Christian and Mahatma Gandhi and what the Christian said and even did because of his thoughts concerning sin and grace and I'm forced to seek your sincere opinions.

Are you saying they are comitting fornication?

Are you saying they are committing fornication? Xtians DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO SIN. Professing christ and sinning deliberately do not go together. Xtians who deliberately continue in sin are throwing away their salvation.

SEE ROMANS 6: 1 -23 below (New American Standard Bible)

'1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.
22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.'
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seyibrown (f)
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Re: Does Grace Mean That A Christian Has The Right To Commit Sin?
« #5 on: Yesterday at 01:44:09 PM »

We are supposed to 'flee from sin'; 'flee from every appearance of evil';'let our light so shine before men that they may glorify our father in heaven'; not to sin or bring reproach to his name. True children of God do not go against the word of God.

', The lord knows those who are his , Let everyone that nameth the name of christ depart from iniquity' (II Timothy 2 v 19)

If a person who does not believe in Jesus as the christian believes does not commit any sin. Is such a one who puts his/her hope on God Almighty Who Jesus His slave said sent him, is devoid of te salvation, mercy and forgiveness of Eloi (The God and Lord of Jesus)? Remember he/she does not believe in Jesus as Christians believe. Yet in all of the bruhaha about Jesus the servant of Eloi, the Christians say that salvation is of the Jews.

How do you figure this out, and what do you make of your condition if your deliberate sins can not be protected from getting you to lake of fire, even so that you believe that Jesus died for you? Is such a death not in vain in many ways; his death cant even prevent you from committing sins, deliberate sins for a start. even then, hs death however you package it could not get you scott free from getting punish, because you sin. are you punished by God, not by Jesus who cant even save you from your sins, as you have stated, because you do not believe in Jesus as Christians do? So whats the purpose of saying that salvation is of the Jews, since they do not beleive in Jesus? Are you saying that because the Jews are Jews, they are saved anyways, regardless? And the rest of us who are neither Jews nor christians are doomed?
What kinda God will punish sinless non-jews and depends on Him except that he does not believe Jesus to be Lord and or God, hence not a person who worships associates with GOD LORD ALMIGHTY CREATOR?

Do you know anyone who has not committed any sin?

Where their is no law, their is no sin,

but we have all fallen foul of God's law in one way or another (Romans 3 v 23 : for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God); we do not meet up to the standard God set for us.

I know the Jesus way to salvation and as such preach that gospel;

It is a tried and tested way and I do not know of any other way to salvation. If you do, please try and introduce it and explain how it works.[/quot}Islam was the religion of jesus, though his heritage was of the Jewish tribes. Follow Islam. You need no blood of anyone. You dont depend on anyone. Your connection is directly to God Who sent Jesus His servant. The road map is there in the Quran. Soon I will give you my email address so that we can talk, outside this forum, if you desire true salvation from the One Who is the Savior; God Almighty the Creator. Jesus called Him Eloi. I say His name is Allah. Listen to the similarity of the sounds.

Jesus died to erase our sins. We get a fresh start when we come to him. When we mistakenly sin, we can ask for forgiveness and he will forgive. When you deliberately continue in sin, e.g. a christian who continues to fornicate knowing it is wrong, not closing all the doors that let him continue in that sin, will recieve the reward for his behaviour(See Hebrews 6 vs 4-8 below):

4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

Christ's death does not prevent us from commmitting sin beacause we have the choice to sin or not to sin. Your quote 'salvation is of the Jews' means 'salvation came from among them' as Jesus was a Jew. Many Jews are receiving Christ now. Jews are not saved just because they are Jews. I had no peace of God or certainty of heaven outside Christ but I do now know what my fate is now that I have Christ.

Wishful thining. You know about the Shango people. They have the same idealogy "Shango oba koso" is their mantra, while yours as a christian is the above, from your Bible, your thought.