You can't be singing "This world is not my own", and build a great nation..

You can't scream "Islamization" on one hand, while building tithe collection points every 5km....


You can't bow to Mecca, and bang your head on the walls of Jerusalem, yet hope for a greater Africa.

When the BIBLE and QURAN guard your thoughts, controlling you is a mater of reading that which you believe without doubt.

Lalasticlala

It is the simple truth.

You cannot be focused on Jerusalem and Mecca then expect Nigeria to grow.....

Politics and national ambitions are no longer my cup of tea but I don't think you make much sense with your argument, bro.

The Bible teaches Christians to be good citizens, from paying our taxes and obeying good laws right up to taking up arms and risking our lives in defense of our country if we are able to. This is the Christian position. We do our bit to not make life impossible for others although that doesn't mean that we should go out of our way to pursue any national ambition that our fellow citizens and leaders catch a fever for.

So, again - as is often the case - an atheist misrepresents the Christian position.

HappyPagan:
You can't be singing "This world is not my own", and build a great nation..

You can't scream "Islamization" on one hand, while building tithe collection points every 5km....


You can't bow to Mecca, and bang your head on the walls of Jerusalem, yet hope for a greater Africa.

When the BIBLE and QURAN guard your thoughts, controlling you is a mater of reading that which you believe without doubt.

It's a pity that majority have suffered so much in the hands of FALSE religion for centuries before the arrival of TRUTH. But it's OK sincere and honest hearted individuals will certainly know the TRUTH and the TRUTH will set their minds FREE!

Ihedinobi3:

The Bible teaches Christians to be good citizens, from paying our taxes and obeying good laws right up to taking up arms and risking our lives in defense of our country if we are able to.

My point exactly. If the Bible hadn't been written, you probably won't know any of this.

Ihedinobi3:

This is the Christian position.

Show me a religion that takes an opposite stance.

Ihedinobi3:

We do our bit to not make life impossible for others although

Yeah, except for homosexuals, and traditionalists. Sometimes, other church members.

Ihedinobi3:

that doesn't mean that we should go out of our way to pursue any national ambition that our fellow citizens and leaders catch a fever for.

Yeah, especially the leaders of Israel and America. That's where good thinking comes from.

Ihedinobi3:

So, again - as is often the case - an atheist misrepresents the Christian position.

lool.. just another Christian desperate to prove Christianity has no shortcomings...

JeromeBlack:
It is the simple truth.

You cannot be focused on Jerusalem and Mecca then expect Nigeria to grow.....

Is it the focus on those places that is killing Nigeria?
Well i think that is not the main problem Sir, our problem starts from selfishness and greed!
Let everyone of us know that for people to live peacefully, we must see every child as our own NOT my neighbor's child! If that is how each of us thinks,i will not insist on having my own child when i am seeing children everywhere,their welfare will be the concern for you and me, there shouldn't be classes if we sincerely want PEACE, then we will know that every single child is the responsibility of one and all,those who still feel like having children will plan to have just one or two, our resources will be more than enough to cater for we all!
Then we can think of truthfully pledging to Nigeria our country, not when you and i are having the "me first" attitude. That's what Jesus of Nazareth preached and teach people of His time but unfortunately most people dislike that ideology!
False religious beliefs is teaching people the exact opposite of all these,but it's only those that are mildtempered that could calm down and learn all these,that is why God said it is only these meek ones that will be allowed to possess this earth and live FOREVER upon it. Psalms 37:8-11,29 Proverbs 2:20-22 Matthew 5:5

Don't just apportion blames blindly.
The rich as well as the poor are guilty of all what we are experiencing now!
Imagine this little boy, please what type of mindset do you see in him when he becomes an adult? Are you seeing the caring type or the greedy type? Remember he is from a poor background!

HappyPagan:

My point exactly. If the Bible hadn't been written, you probably won't know any of this.

God created all human beings with a conscience. So, without a Bible we do know right and wrong. But we are also very capable of self-deceit, so an external standard like the Bible does make us honest with ourselves.

HappyPagan:
Show me a religion that takes an opposite stance.

I'll give you two. Jehovah's Witnesses. Islam. The latter is slightly different but its philosophy is not very big on protecting national integrity since it seeks as much as possible to subvert it.

HappyPagan:
Yeah, except for homosexuals, and traditionalists. Sometimes, other church members.

The Bible says this?

HappyPagan:
Yeah, especially the leaders of Israel and America. That's where good thinking comes from.

Well, I am apolitical these days because of what I have learned from the Bible.

HappyPagan:
lool.. just another Christian desperate to prove Christianity has no shortcomings...

Desperate? Not really. I am just bored.

Ihedinobi3:


I'll give you two. Jehovah's Witnesses. Islam. The latter is slightly different but its philosophy is not very big on protecting national integrity since it seeks as much as possible to subvert it.

can you be clear on this point.?

vaxx:
can you be clear on this point.?

What part?

TATIME:
Is it the focus on those places that is killing Nigeria?
Well i think that is not the main problem Sir, our problem starts from selfishness and greed!
Let everyone of us know that for people to live peacefully, we must see every child as our own NOT my neighbor's child! If that is how each of us thinks,i will not insist on having my own child when i am seeing children everywhere,their welfare will be the concern for you and me, there shouldn't be classes if we sincerely want PEACE, then we will know that every single child is the responsibility of one and all,those who still feel like having children will plan to have just one or two, our resources will be more than enough to cater for we all!
Then we can think of truthfully pledging to Nigeria our country, not when you and i are having the "me first" attitude. That's what Jesus of Nazareth preached and teach people of His time but unfortunately most people dislike that ideology!
False religious beliefs is teaching people the exact opposite of all these,but it's only those that are mildtempered that could calm down and learn all these,that is why God said it is only these meek ones that will be allowed to possess this earth and live FOREVER upon it. Psalms 37:8-11,29 Proverbs 2:20-22 Matthew 5:5

Sharrap. No one is saying that religion is the only problem we have. What we are saying is that religion is a problem.

It encourages foolishness in the name of faith.

Ihedinobi3:

What part?

The part i quoted , especially on islam.

Ihedinobi3:
Politics and national ambitions are no longer my cup of tea but I don't think you make much sense with your argument, bro.

The Bible teaches Christians to be good citizens, from paying our taxes and obeying good laws right up to taking up arms and risking our lives in defense of our country if we are able to. This is the Christian position. We do our bit to not make life impossible for others although that doesn't mean that we should go out of our way to pursue any national ambition that our fellow citizens and leaders catch a fever for.

So, again - as is often the case - an atheist misrepresents the Christian position.

Yet, churches have been evading taxes since ancient times.

You just talk like a parrot that has been told to say good things about christianity. Rinse and repeat.

vaxx:
The part i quoted , especially on islam.

I didn't see any bold text but if it's the part about Islam...

Islam believes in world conquest and cultural homogeneity. That means that it does not respect national integrity. It may use the principle to defend Muslim-controlled borders but it does not hold the same principle in its view of the world.

JeromeBlack:


Yet, churches have been evading taxes since ancient times.

You just talk like a parrot that has been told to say good things about christianity. Rinse and repeat.

Is the Bible responsible for disobedience to its principles?

Regardless, I don't hold brief for churches, but I wonder if you believe that every organization of people is responsible to pay taxes?

Finally, if individual Christians pay taxes and churches are not responsible by law to pay taxes, what exactly is your grouse?

TATIME:
Don't just apportion blames blindly.
The rich as well as the poor are guilty of all what we are experiencing now!
Imagine this little boy, please what type of mindset do you see in him when he becomes an adult? Are you seeing the caring type or the greedy type? Remember he is from a poor background!

Greedy Boy - he may end up as a scammer / who knows !!

Ihedinobi3:

I didn't see any bold text but if it's the part about Islam...

Islam believes in world conquest and cultural homogeneity. That means that it does not respect national integrity. It may use the principle to defend Muslim-controlled borders but it does not hold the same principle in its view of the world.

i don't think your normal every day Muslim wants to conquer the world, but there are certainly some religious extremists with expansion objectives.

I wouldn't attribute that statement to all Muslims. That's called Islamaphobia. You are labeling or negative stereotyping a whole group of people in a prejudicial way.

Extremist groups have existed in most societies from the Christian, Judaic, Hindu to Islamic. They have relegious and/or political agendas.

Extremism is always about power.

However, an extensive research into islam in the quran suggest that Islam will eventually extinct from the world and after that the day of judgment will happen.

Therefore, Islam conquering the world is not a belief that a muslim helds. Whoever holds such beliefs is essentially going beyond Islamic doctrines and are particularly extremist.

vaxx:
i don't think your normal every day Muslim wants to conquer the world, but there are certainly some religious extremists with expansion objectives.

I wouldn't attribute that statement to all Muslims. That's called Islamaphobia. You are labeling or negative stereotyping a whole group of people in a prejudicial way.

Extremist groups have existed in most societies from the Christian, Judaic, Hindu to Islamic. They have relegious and/or political agendas.

Extremism is always about power.

However, an extensive research into islam in the quran suggest that Islam will eventually extinct from the world and after that the day of judgment will happen.

Therefore, Islam conquering the world is not a belief that a muslim helds. Whoever holds such beliefs is essentially going beyond Islamic doctrines and are particularly extremist.

For the purpose of clarity, did you mean that Islam would go out of existence in the world following which event will come the Day of Judgment?

PS. My argument was not about the behavior or actions of Muslims but about Islam itself as a religion. That is, it was the Qur'anic position that I was addressing. Perhaps the statement I asked you to clarify will help to establish the truth or falsity of my claim.

Ihedinobi3:

God created all human beings with a conscience.

Is this your Christian belief speaking, or an objective fact? Just wondering how many humans you have interacted with to be so solid in that assertion.

Ihedinobi3:

So, without a Bible we do know right and wrong.

This is good, small tiny progress. We don't need the Bible to interpret right/wrong. This is good.

Ihedinobi3:

But we are also very capable of self-deceit, so an external standard like the Bible does make us honest with ourselves.

For Christians, sure. I've met some pretty good ones myself.

But some do quite well with other 'external' standards. Some use the Bible as an external standard, and end up treating humans worse than they treat their Bible.

Anyways, this isn't the point of my OP.

Rehoboth. Shiloh. Abraham. Zion. Jerusalem. Rapture.
If these are all the thoughts that fill your head, how can you claim be to African?

When you say Christianity is a way of life, that's another way of saying culture, way of life, attitude to living. Your brain has been Israelized and the only thing African left on you is probably your skin. Not your fault though, I must admit. Man must survive afterall.

Ihedinobi3:

I'll give you two. Jehovah's Witnesses. Islam. The latter is slightly different but its philosophy is not very big on protecting national integrity since it seeks as much as possible to subvert it.

I'd give you JW, although it's weird since they also claim the Bible is their inspiration. Islam, well, that's quite wrong, very wrong.

The Bible says this?

Really?
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

Desperate? Not really. I am just bored.

That's cool. I always am.

Ihedinobi3:

For the purpose of clarity, did you mean that Islam would go out of existence in the world following which event will come the Day of Judgment?

That is what hadith and quran indicate, kaaba in mecca (the house of worship will be destroy, new born baby will grow and walk and so on . it is a sign of the last day. mind you i dont subscribed to it. but i am abreast with islamic teaching.

PS. My argument was not about the behavior or actions of Muslims but about Islam itself as a religion. That is, it was the Qur'anic position that I was addressing. Perhaps the statement I asked you to clarify will help to establish the truth or falsity of my claim.

obviously you aren't abreast with Islamic teaching, and it is improper to brand islam with such attribute. it is better you address only what you know.

HappyPagan:

Is this your Christian belief speaking, or an objective fact? Just wondering how many humans you have interacted with to be so solid in that assertion.

There is no objective fact that we cannot choose to doubt or disbelieve outright.

HappyPagan:
This is good, small tiny progress. We don't need the Bible to interpret right/wrong. This is good.

Romans 2.

HappyPagan:
For Christians, sure. I've met some pretty good ones myself.

But some do quite well with other 'external' standards. Some use the Bible as an external standard, and end up treating humans worse than they treat their Bible.

Anyways, this isn't the point of my OP.

Rehoboth. Shiloh. Abraham. Zion. Jerusalem. Rapture.
If these are all the thoughts that fill your head, how can you claim be to African?

When you say Christianity is a way of life, that's another way of saying culture, way of life, attitude to living. Your brain has been Israelized and the only thing African left on you is probably your skin. Not your fault though, I must admit. Man must survive afterall.

The point was that our consciences aren't enough.

As for what has been done to me, it is not clear what that has to do with anything. Even if it were true, clearly it has not resulted in my not wanting to be a good citizen in my native country. That is not a case that can be made from the Bible. And that makes your argument false.

HappyPagan:
I'd give you JW, although it's weird since they also claim the Bible is their inspiration. Islam, well, that's quite wrong, very wrong.

Claims can be true and they can be false. In this instance, it was false.

How am I wrong about Islam?

HappyPagan:

Really?
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

[7]For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.
[8]For finding fault with them, He says, "Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, When I will effect a new covenant With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
[13]When He said, "A new covenant, " He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
Hebrews 8:7-8,13 NASB

That has been changed. Besides, this was a Law for Israel as a believing nation. Now that the Gospel has gone out into the world, the Law has been set aside. We don't kill homosexuals. If they let us, we tell them the Gospel. If they believe, they will be saved. If they do not, we don't need to kill them. God will take care of that by Himself.

HappyPagan:
That's cool. I always am.

Yeah, you should probably get that looked into.

The other day I was watching a programme where prospective house buyers check out 3 or 4 houses and latter buy one on the tv
A chapel was modified to a house and people were actually bidding for it.
I was so shocked.
This was a country that introduced religion to Nigeria.

I don't normally like engaging in religious debates here but I know that a time will come when all these mega churches will be converted to factories,industries or warehouses. Just a matter of time. It will happen naturally.

Who will have had the courage to speak against religion the way people do now some yrs back?

Ihedinobi3:

Is the Bible responsible for disobedience to its principles?

Regardless, I don't hold brief for churches, but I wonder if you believe that every organization of people is responsible to pay taxes?

Finally, if individual Christians pay taxes and churches are not responsible by law to pay taxes, what exactly is your grouse?

Only charities should be exempt from taxes. Churches engage in non charity activities.

Ihedinobi3:

There is no objective fact that we cannot choose to doubt or disbelieve outright.

An objective fact needs no belief. That's why it's objective in the first place.

To assume that an idea that lives in your head is objective fact, some call that a mental problem.

Ihedinobi3:

Romans 2.

Have no idea what that verse has to do with my post.

Ihedinobi3:

Claims can be true and they can be false. In this instance, it was false.

By your own reasoning and understanding of Christianity, I'm sure.

Ihedinobi3:

How am I wrong about Islam?

vaxx is doing a good job already, nothing to add. Let's not derail the thread.

Ihedinobi3:

[7]For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.
[8]For finding fault with them, He says, "Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, When I will effect a new covenant With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
[13]When He said, "A new covenant, " He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
Hebrews 8:7-8,13 NASB

Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved
This was Jesus, the founder of your faith. Only God knows what Paul was talking about.. anyways it's the Bible, a collection of books written by random authors who had no idea their works would be in the same collection.

Ihedinobi3:

That has been changed. Besides, this was a [b]Law for Israel [/b]as a believing nation.

Good, we finally get to why the OP was created.

Ihedinobi3:

Now that the Gospel has gone out into the world, the Law has been set aside.

By the world, I assume you mean everywhere else except Israel... where it was strongly rejected.

Ihedinobi3:

We don't kill homosexuals. If they let us, we tell them the Gospel.

That's good. You might still be paying tithes, but killing homosexual will be too gross, especially considering the time and age we live in. Do you have any homosexual friends? Have you ever preached to any?

Ihedinobi3:

If they believe, they will be saved.

Saved from what? A spanking from your God? I'm worried about the things that worry your God. He sounds so much like you.

Ihedinobi3:

If they do not, we don't need to kill them.

That's good. I really appreciate this show of compassion.

Ihedinobi3:

God will take care of that by Himself.

Good old God will kill you for rejecting me..

Ihedinobi3:

Yeah, you should probably get that looked into.

Na, I'm good. I've learned to live with it. Not all minds work the same way.

I am not exactly going to agree with the premise, its more like Christianity and Islam helped exacerbate the already incipient nepotism and division that was between us. Then the focus on the afterlife and other nonsense will naturally take their minds off contributing to national progress.

vaxx:
That is what hadith and quran indicate, kaaba in mecca (the house of worship will be destroy, new born baby will grow and walk and so on . it is a sign of the last day. mind you i dont subscribed to it. but i am abreast with islamic teaching.

I'm afraid I don't understand. How does this mean that Islam will cease before the Day of Judgment?

vaxx:
obviously you aren't abreast with Islamic teaching, and it is improper to brand islam with such attribute. it is better you address only what you know.

[1][This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.
[2]So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.
[3]And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.
[4]Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
[5]And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
[6]And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.
[7]How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
[8]How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.
[9]They have exchanged the signs of Allah for a small price and averted [people] from His way. Indeed, it was evil that they were doing.
[10]They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors.
[11]But if they repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, then they are your brothers in religion; and We detail the verses for a people who know.
[12]And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease.
[13]Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers.
[14]Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people
[15]And remove the fury in the believers' hearts. And Allah turns in forgiveness to whom He wills; and Allah is Knowing and Wise.
[16]Do you think that you will be left [as you are] while Allah has not yet made evident those among you who strive [for His cause] and do not take other than Allah, His Messenger and the believers as intimates? And Allah is Acquainted with what you do.
[20]The ones who have believed, emigrated and striven in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives are greater in rank in the sight of Allah . And it is those who are the attainers [of success].
[21]Their Lord gives them good tidings of mercy from Him and approval and of gardens for them wherein is enduring pleasure.
[22][They will be] abiding therein forever. Indeed, Allah has with Him a great reward.
[24]Say, [O Muhammad], "If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your relatives, wealth which you have obtained, commerce wherein you fear decline, and dwellings with which you are pleased are more beloved to you than Allah and His Messenger and jihad in His cause, then wait until Allah executes His command. And Allah does not guide the defiantly disobedient people."
[29]Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
[33]It is He who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth to manifest it over all religion, although they who associate others with Allah dislike it.
Surah 9:1- 16, 20-22, 24, 29, 33. (See also Surah 61:9; 48:28.)

JeromeBlack:



Only charities should be exempt from taxes. Churches engage in non charity activities.

I am receiving your silence on my other questions to mean that you cannot argue against them.

As for your argument here, clearly churches which don't pay taxes do not violate the law. For another point, like I said, I don't hold brief for churches, but I can't see what your upset is for churches as a rule. When people come together in order to encourage and support each other in their individual effort to grow in their understanding of and obedience to the Bible, in what way is that a taxable activity?

Ihedinobi3:

I'm afraid I don't understand. How does this mean that Islam will cease before the Day of Judgment?

it simply demonsrate that the idea of conquering the whole world is meaningless and purposeleas since islam will soon go into extinctions toward the last days.

[1][This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.
[2]So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.
[3]And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.
[4]Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
[5]And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
[6]And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.
[7]How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
[8]How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.
[9]They have exchanged the signs of Allah for a small price and averted [people] from His way. Indeed, it was evil that they were doing.
[10]They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors.
[11]But if they repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, then they are your brothers in religion; and We detail the verses for a people who know.
[12]And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease.
[13]Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers.
[14]Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people
[15]And remove the fury in the believers' hearts. And Allah turns in forgiveness to whom He wills; and Allah is Knowing and Wise.
[16]Do you think that you will be left [as you are] while Allah has not yet made evident those among you who strive [for His cause] and do not take other than Allah, His Messenger and the believers as intimates? And Allah is Acquainted with what you do.
[20]The ones who have believed, emigrated and striven in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives are greater in rank in the sight of Allah . And it is those who are the attainers [of success].
[21]Their Lord gives them good tidings of mercy from Him and approval and of gardens for them wherein is enduring pleasure.
[22][They will be] abiding therein forever. Indeed, Allah has with Him a great reward.
[24]Say, [O Muhammad], "If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your relatives, wealth which you have obtained, commerce wherein you fear decline, and dwellings with which you are pleased are more beloved to you than Allah and His Messenger and jihad in His cause, then wait until Allah executes His command. And Allah does not guide the defiantly disobedient people."
[29]Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
[33]It is He who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth to manifest it over all religion, although they who associate others with Allah dislike it.
Surah 9:1- 16, 20-22, 24, 29, 33. (See also Surah 61:9; 48:28.)

this is why Muslim accused you guys of misinformed or inadequate knowledge. you went straight online to draw random interpretation of quran text without understanding what quran and islam stands for. i am not an islamic apologetic, so i will not go with details of those verses. but i will enlight you on on the context of those verses as regard to islamic history.

Islam has through time tolerate many non muslim.. After all Mohammed became a prophet at a time and place where there was a great deal of other religions. Not only was Judaism and Christianity already thriving, but in Saudi-Arabia where he did his teachings a lot of minor religions was thriving (The time of Ignorance or Uninlightenment, if my English serves me well.) So throughout his life he has to answer to comments and questioning of his preachings. This led to an Islam that was able to take criticism (which they have endured much of and still do), but also made it into a religion that was able to tolerate the religions around it. Throughout history Muslims have led peacefully beside other religions (obviously some mishaps here and there). They have generally always been able to accept other religions, even if we take examples like the Ottoman Empire that lasted hundreds of years and had numerous religions under its wing, even though the primary governing body was Islamic and during some of the time even under Sharia law, they still managed to respect all their colonies religious freedoms.

As i said , you are obviously ignorant of Islamic teaching and it will be good if you seek knolwedge of it before debating it.

I edited my last response to you to include an answer I forgot to make to one of your arguments.

HappyPagan:

An objective fact needs no belief. That's why it's objective in the first place.

To assume that an idea that lives in your head is objective fact, some call that a mental problem.

That is demonstrably false. The fact that certain things are observable and obviously true does not mean that people cannot choose to doubt or disbelieve them. As you said, that is the definition of insanity. And is insanity a fantasy? Are there no insane people?

HappyPagan:
Have no idea what that verse has to do with my post.

What progress did you mean if I was only repeating something that the Bible teaches? The Bible teaches that human conscience is universal and demonstrates both the Existence of God and His Just Nature.

But my stating this somehow translated to "progress" for you. Presumably, this is progress toward the "light" of atheism?

HappyPagan:
By your own reasoning and understanding of Christianity, I'm sure.

Does the Bible disagree with it?

HappyPagan:
vaxx is doing a good job already, nothing to add. Let's not derail the thread.

Great. As for derailing, it was your question in order to demonstrate that Christianity was making a claim that was far from unique to it.

HappyPagan:
Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved
This was Jesus, the founder of your faith. Only God knows what Paul was talking about.. anyways it's the Bible, a collection of books written by random authors who had no idea their works would be in the same collection.

As your quote said, He came to accomplish the purpose of the Law. And He also said that only when it had been would the Law "disappear". In John 19:30, after paying the price for all human sin except unbelief, He said, "it has been accomplished" and gave up His spirit.

If by His Own Words, the Law would only pass away after its purpose had been accomplished and He came to accomplish that purpose and He accomplished it at the Cross, in what way is the Cross still operative?

HappyPagan:
Good, we finally get to why the OP was created.

Okay.

HappyPagan:
By the world, I assume you mean everywhere else except Israel... where it was strongly rejected.

Why would I mean that? Even if the vast majority rejected it, it went to Israel first. From there it spread to the rest of the world. And doesn't something have to be given or offered first before it can be rejected?

HappyPagan:
That's good. You might still be paying tithes, but killing homosexual will be too gross, especially considering the time and age we live in. Do you have any homosexual friends? Have you ever preached to any?

I don't pay tithes. It would not only be too gross, it would also violate the Bible. I have none that I am aware of. And I don't preach the Gospel indiscriminately. If anyone is interested in hearing it, I tell them about it. Otherwise, I refrain.

HappyPagan:
Saved from what? A spanking from your God? I'm worried about the things that worry your God. He sounds so much like you.

Saved from God's Condemnation which will result in eternal consignment in the Lake of Fire filled with darkness, pain and regret. Nothing pretty by any standard.

HappyPagan:
That's good. I really appreciate this show of compassion.

Okay. But the greater compassion is in giving people the Gospel, not in sparing their physical lives. Everyone will die in the end. Then, the real Death will face them unless they have been saved.

HappyPagan:
Good old God will kill you for rejecting me..

You asked. I just answered.

HappyPagan:
Na, I'm good. I've learned to live with it. Not all minds work the same way.

Cool. You're right though.

Ihedinobi3:

I am receiving your silence on my other questions to mean that you cannot argue against them.

As for your argument here, clearly churches which don't pay taxes do not violate the law. For another point, like I said, I don't hold brief for churches, but I can't see what your upset is for churches as a rule. When people come together in order to encourage and support each other in their individual effort to grow in their understanding of and obedience to the Bible, in what way is that a taxable activity?

What other questions?

As for the taxes on churches, evangelism, preaching are not charity activities. Hosting AA meetings, granting scholarships, hosting free weddings etc are charity activities.