What about those who change two to four times? No gender but full of sex, are they not nuisance?

tintingz:
And what's wrong with it?

Not saying it is wrong nor it is good. Just that german law does not accomodate such a system for now.

Or is there european nation with such a system?

vaxx:
what i personally discover is that most of those that under go transgender surgeries , their GENETIC make up is predominately female/male of the sex they want to become.

That's news, and not what I've found. If what you claim is true gender swapping would not involve hormonal therapy since their bodies would already be producing the proper gender.

vaxx:

Granted there is nurture vs nature aspects, but most of them are genetically female/ male regardless of the birth gender .

Don't understand. Sounds like you would claim Mokgadi Caster Semenya is really a man! I'll post a picture of her and her spouse, Violet Raseboya, then tell if genetic gender does not include the bits?

vaxx:

Those hospitals doing transgender surgeries require them to be genetically assessed before committing to the surgical procedures. That's After they go through the psycho/social assessment. Not All require it but most do.

I, buda, who may be described by some as a liberal with all the trimmings, think the medical profession are pandering to stupidity.

Most of gender swappers I've read about have more of nurture influences than nature. Or you'd have to wonder why the gods only make this mistake in affluent countries where people don't worry about their daily bread.

budaatum:

That's news, and not what I've found. If what you claim is true gender swapping would not involve hormonal therapy since their bodies would already be producing the proper gender.


Don't understand. Sounds like you would claim Mokgadi Caster Semenya is really a man! I'll post a picture of her and her spouse, Violet Raseboya, then tell if genetic gender does not include the bits?


I, buda, who may be described by some as a liberal with all the trimmings, think the medical profession are pandering to stupidity.

Most of gender swappers I've read about have more of nurture influences than nature. Or you'd have to wonder why the gods only make this mistake in affluent countries where people don't worry about their daily bread.

Buddha, No need of fourth and back argument. Scienctifc researched had go into this, brains of transgender people have been shown to match the gender of what they identify as. It's thought that the cause of it is a change in body chemistry during the early stages of pregnancy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

vaxx:
Not saying it is wrong nor it is good. Just that german law does not accomodate such a system for now.

Or is there european nation with such a system?

Ok, got you.

vaxx:
Buddha researched had go into this, brains of transgender people have been shown to match the gender of what they identify as. It's thought that the cause of it is a change in body chemistry during the early stages of pregnancy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

Some people here will still say this is a lie.

tintingz:
Some people here will still say this is a lie.

sure.

What I think
So if you're talking about changing gender, I think someone that is sexually a male can actually have a feminine gender in dat it is basically based on social and cultural factors hence if someone of male sex acts feminine, his gender might be considered female with his sex being male
But I think you can change your sex at least to an extent since sex is based on medical factors include chromosome, genitals, hormones. Ur hormones and genitals can be changed leaving only d chromosomes, so I could say to an extent ur sex can be changed.

vaxx:
Buddha, No need of fourth and back argument. Scienctifc researched had go into this, brains of transgender people have been shown to match the gender of what they identify as. It's thought that the cause of it is a change in body chemistry during the early stages of pregnancy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

That's not quite what the link you posted to is saying. A read all the way through suggests the jury is out.

All the same, none of it is cited by those seeking to change gender that I have heard of, nor are the tests suggested by the studies in the link used to determine if gender swopping is appropriate. Most tests seem to just check you're not insane, and in some countries, parental consent is all a minor requires.

vaxx:


Or is there european nation with such a system?

Yes there are. Consultation on UK's Gender Recognition Act closed on 19 October, after gathering testimonies for 16 weeks. And Ireland is reviewing their's.

budaatum:

Yes there are. Consultation on UK's Gender Recognition Act closed on 19 October, after gathering testimonies for 16 weeks. And Ireland is reviewing their's.

My question is does changes in transexuality alter relationship between parent and a child?

Germany has a protection law to support transexuality people. But does not have the laws to alter relationship with their child before or after they change. Not heard of any western nation having that either?

budaatum:

That's not quite what the link you posted to is saying. A read all the way through suggests the jury is out.

All the same, none of it is cited by those seeking to change gender that I have heard of, nor are the tests suggested by the studies in the link used to determine if gender swopping is appropriate. Most tests seem to just check your not insane, and in some countries, parental consent is all a minor requires.

i am not advocating for transexuality. Far from that, i am only pointing out that, it is appropriate medically. I am a cultured man myself.

johnydon22:


What prompted me to open this thread was a Youtube video i was watching today.

So, some women created an Advert and posted at an ad space in Liverpool The ad read

Woman:
noun
"Adult human female"

Which is in fact the definition of woman. So, apparently it was offensive to transgender people and they petition to have the ad banner taken down.

One of the activists who wanted the post to be taken down and one of the women who posted the ads were connected to a tv show to argue on this event.

The woman said, they did nothing wrong other than post a literal objective truth, that asking someone not to post a truth in order not to offend someone is quite ludicrous.

The man disagreed and was asked to define "Woman"

He said "A woman is a person who says she is a [woman"

I was amazed because that definition didn't literally make sense at all. It didn't explain what the word "woman" meant and still used the word "Woman" in the definition of "Woman"

My mind was blown, it was funny but mind blowing.

Can u pls share the video link? It will be interesting to watch

johnydon22:


Human linguistics takes short cuts. We also say "Sun rises from the east"

Social stereotypes is built on expectations. Men are more likely to be masculine and strong due to testosterone, hence the stereotype. This doesn't mean a masculine woman is a man or an effeminate man is a woman.

So a woman behaving like a man doesn't make her a man.

Man means "human adult male"
Woman "Adult human female"
Girl "child human female
Boy "child human male"

Unless we can alter sex which is unlikely since sex is more than physiological appearance, you have not shown how a woman can be a man and a man a woman.

And remember the transgender argument is based on subjective person identification

You seem to think sexual identity is a monolithic structure and fail to take into account that we are products of evolutionary processes.

If you stood with us before sexual dimorphism had occurred, do you imagine we would have agreed that sexual differentiation was possible or even desirable? Yet here we are.

Point is our sexual identities are a result of evolutionary processes not some monolith set down by gods or whatever. We can change and maybe that change will be beneficial, who knows.

I already said what the actual process is, an appropriation of symbols. Symbols that we defined so there is no one to tell us it is wrong or impossible. If at some point in our development we called male female and vice versa, you'd be identified as female with nobody baiting an eyelid because that would be the way things were. Its almost like saying because someone is white he can't rap because rap is black culture. We established the culture and it can be changed by us at anytime or rather over time as culture is wont.

If the sticking point for you is the biology then the biology is also malleable. Change the sex organ, suppress some hormones, boost others and you begin see physical changes. The chromosome is immaterial because as it stands we know that you do not need the sex gametes to initiate the growth of another organism aka cloning.

Martinez19:
Don't mind them. Emotions before reasoning. This stupidity is just a tip of the iceberg. Research about the SJWs and their take on race,culture and gender(not forgetting gender studies and gender pronouns); feminazi; antifa; liberals etc. you will see how stupid the human mind can be.

I guess I am six years old because I identify as a six year old.

Just look at this thread.

vaxx:
because by definition, intersex is not a disorder. A ‘disorder’ being medically defined as something incompatible with a normal, healthy life. Virtual every form of intersex has no impact on an individual’s ability to lead a healthy, long life.

Does extra toe has a negative impact?

No. it does not. still doesn't make it not to be an anomaly.

Conflating something being an anomaly and being harmful. lol

intersex medically, it will be welcome, layman understanding it will be rejected. Germany has intersex as the third option on their birth certificate

Actually this doesn't mean it is not an anomaly.

Human sex is binary, intersex is possessing characteristics peculiar with the two sexes due to genetic conditions.

i meant to say psychologically.

Meaning what exactly?

Ironically that's true just not the way you mean it. We have this things being male and female which is genetic and being a man or woman boy or girl which was psychological. Historically the two were completed for a purpose of misogyny and control of both females and women but relationship at all is at base pure discrimination

hahahaha.. gold

man
/man/Submit
noun
1.
an adult human male.
"a small man with mischievous eyes"
synonyms: male, adult male, gentleman, youth

woman
/ˈwʊmən/Submit
noun
an adult human female.

Tell me, how does it feel to be a boy?

Depends on how you look at it.

No it doesn't. wearing a dress doesn't make a male into a female. that is an inherent trait which are not alterable. Being either a man or woman is contingent on this unalterable states of being.

Biologically speaking a man can never be a woman or vice versa. Even after transitioning as i said earlier, it is still, right now, not possible to do a full conversion from male to female or vice versa. Simply not possible yet.

Agreed

In the social construct then yes, a biological male can have the social gender of a female. Or be fluid, or otherwise.

Which given the biological fact stated above can either be factually wrong or factually right.

budaatum:

Despite trying for years to resolve the sex/ gender issue, I have resolved for me that sex is sex, and masculine and feminine is gender.

So, an effeminate man is a woman then?

budaatum:


Considering, I would have thought you'd agree.

Agree to what? What vaxx said or that definition of woman?

vaxx:
This is a burning issue in my part of the world . Some groups of Lgbt advocate are saying germany needs a drastic overhaul of gender laws after a transgender woman has been told she wanted to be legally recognised as her child's father.

Actually, it has been taken to a notch towards the absurd.

A caucasian said she identifies as a black.

A black woman said she identifies as a caucasian.

Both siting "how they feel"

And owning to that "how you feel" validates your argument nonsense the west is using to pander on idiocy, they have just as much valid argument as a man who says he is a woman.

We are becoming a society of lies when we hush objective truth in order not to offend some people.

budaatum:

69-year-old man demands to have age legally reduced to 49 - so he can DATE

You see, that is the problem with such things, the world loses any objective order of doing things based on truth.

Identity is not biological, it is something we acquire through experiences, but things like "Sex/gender are not identities in that sense, they are a state, just like say "human is not an identity, it is a state of being"

I could swear "You and i do not know what it feels like to be a man because a man is not a feeling. When a woman says "i feel like a man" What does that even mean?

How do you know what you are feeling is not like "woman" since you do not feel like both genders, if you do not have the other feeling to contrast the feeling you have, how exactly do you know what you are feeling?

there is a very big problem with that line of thought.

Identity can be factually wrong or factually right.

When a human says I am a dog"
We all know this is factually wrong.

If i say right now "I am Buhari (implying our actual president)"
This is also factually wrong and saying this doesn't make me Buhari or give me the privileges of being Buhari

"If a man says, i am a woman"
It is factually wrong.

and we call factually wrong identities or belief as delusion.

When social structures begin to be formed not on the basis of the facts they represent but personal feelings, will they be an end to the chain reaction of nonsense that would cause?

Some people may argue that i do not want people to do whatever they want, quite the contrary, I am cool with people saying they want to be transgender (even though i don't think moral or legal permissibility of things should be based on "what ever the heck someone wants, that is dangerous) I rather think people are intentionally masking truth to accommodate delusion and i think speaking truth should come first in everything.

I argued with a transgender on twitter he said that he is male by sex which he agreed is constant but woman by gender. I asked "define woman" he blocked me.

budaatum:

And according to some, you can be a man or a woman and identify as a woman or man respectively. And even after you take their clothes off, you might not be able to say otherwise.

Why not? Isn't being "man" or "woman" according to them contingent on just saying you are? You should be able to jump through them at will, at any rate you want.

You can wake up a man and go to bed a woman everyday

orisa37:
What about those who change two to four times? No gender but full of sex, are they not nuisance?

johnydon22:


Actually, it has been taken to a notch towards the absurd.

A caucasian said she identifies as a black.

A black woman said she identifies as a caucasian.

Both siting "how they feel"

And owning to that "how you feel" validates your argument nonsense the west is using to pander on idiocy, they have just as much valid argument as a man who says he is a woman.

We are becoming a society of lies when we hush objective truth in order not to offend some people.

I guess Social myth is part of us.

Ask Michael Jackson.

tintingz:
I guess Social myth is part of us.

Ask Michael Jackson.

But you are not getting it.

White
Black
Asian

These are not based on social beliefs, there are contingent on objective human biology. Racial differences are genetical.

Michael Jackson is no more caucasian anymore than I am Asian.

Aesthetics don't change inherent traits. Yanking your diick off don't change a thing.

frank317:



Can u pls share the video link? It will be interesting to watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8nViKYmEhU

johnydon22:
But you are not getting it.

White
Black
Asian

These are not based on social beliefs, there are contingent on objective human biology. Racial differences are genetical.

Michael Jackson is no more caucasian anymore than I am Asian.

Aesthetics don't change inherent traits. Yanking your diick off don't change a thing.

Lol, Michael Jackson fit in well with the whites community, he's mostly seen as white after the surgery. It shows humans are more focus on appearance than biological.

It might not completely change the inherent traits but it will definitely change ones identity.

And so what? Is it that there's a sky master up there preparing a punishment to people that wants to live their life?

johnydon22:
No. it does not. still doesn't make it not to be an anomaly.

well, it is rare but being rare doesn't mean they don't exist. It is extablished. There's people born who express as a female and may have both a penis and a vagina. There’s people born who may look male with the same condition or any variation in between. Nature doesn’t always fit into neat little boxes with dividers. It’s a spectrum of variation and gender is no different.

Conflating something being an anomaly and being harmful. Lol

not to be anomal in this category does not make intersex less human or medically unfit. that is my point here. No conflation pls.

Actually this doesn't mean it is not an anomaly.

[quote]Human sex is binary, intersex is possessing characteristics peculiar with the two sexes due to genetic conditions.

How do you define woman and man? Is it by genitalias? Chromosomes? Any answer I’ve so far seen can be countered with documented examples of individuals who fit neither, or both, categories. Gender spectrum is not just about how people feel about themselves, but is based on established, verified, scientific fact.

Meaning what exactly?

meaning social contrust is the bigger picture here and not genetic system.

hahahaha.. gold

man
/man/Submit
noun
1.
an adult human male.
"a small man with mischievous eyes"
synonyms: male, adult male, gentleman, youth

woman
/ˈwʊmən/Submit
noun
an adult human female.

Tell me, how does it feel to be a boy?

Sex is biological. Chromosomes. Genitalias.

Gender is not.

Pronouns (he/she) have gender, but no chromosomes or genitalias.

Open minded, respectful people don’t like close minded disrespectful people.

No it doesn't. wearing a dress doesn't make a male into a female. that is an inherent trait which are not alterable. Being either a man or woman is contingent on this unalterable states of being

sure, genetics factor can't totally be alter, as it is inborn. What is altered is the the social consruct of the transexual patient

Agreed

[quote]Which given the biological fact stated above can either be factually wrong or factually right.

The issue is more of social and tolerance factor rather than biological concept.

johnydon22:


Actually, it has been taken to a notch towards the absurd.

A caucasian said she identifies as a black.

A black woman said she identifies as a caucasian.

Both siting "how they feel"

And owning to that "how you feel" validates your argument nonsense the west is using to pander on idiocy, they have just as much valid argument as a man who says he is a woman.

We are becoming a society of lies when we hush objective truth in order not to offend some people.

Racism is the underlying psychological problem, so is the misogyny necessary for this to make a difference.

johnydon22:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8nViKYmEhU

Thanks

johnydon22:
Agree to what? What vaxx said or that definition of woman?

That vaxx would agree with his own claim that truth is subjective.

johnydon22:


So, an effeminate man is a woman then?

No! Effeminity does not gender make. Semenya is not a man!!

johnydon22:
Why not? Isn't being "man" or "woman" according to them contingent on just saying you are? You should be able to jump through them at will, at any rate you want.

We're saying the same thing. According to them, gender can be changed by their say so.